What is real ???

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Many people say that God is not real because for something to be real we have to be able to  see, hear, touch, smell or taste it.     And prove that we do.
   
       Let me ask YA...   can you taste hunger?
   
     How much does Love weigh? 
   
     An imagination is real? Or is it?
   
     Intelligence?  if ya got a lot of it, how much space does it require?  Does it have an aroma? 
   
     Can it be discerned by our senses??   Sorry..  that would be self discernment wouldn't it??
     And if you are aware of it,  Can you prove it to me that you are aware?
   
     You might say that we can measure intelligence;  But only by by a system that was created by our own awareness.
   
      Awareness ... that's another one!   I think I saw a discussion on these forums about it.  What did we decide?
      can we touch, smell, see, hear, or taste awareness?
   
     Then it ain't real ???   or is it?

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      wilbury4posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      One can't taste hunger but one can feel it.
      Love is an emotion and with it comes responsibility, would you agree? A responsibility is a weight.
      Imagination is thought or dreams, conceived through our minds, we all have them, they could be described as an alternate reality?
      Intelligence is an ability, an ability to understand, it has no volume. I am aware of my ability to understand, answereing your questions prooves my ability to understand and therefore my intelligence.
      Awareness is a sense in itself, of course its real....

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      Kimberly Bunchposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Then it's all about faith right? And just knowing.
      
      

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think that is right! 
         The are many realities that just can not be examined though they can be experienced.
         
           But not all people get to experience them so they say it isn't real.
         
            Yes; faith is a good word to explain it.

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      sarovaiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The same way you can't realise fully other's feeling. Otherwords you can't be in a position of the person who denies god. So we should try to treat the feelings both ours and others equally inorder to attract the other to yourside. But the other person also may be trying for the same. Don't forget.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Even after we have walked a mile in their shoes we may not understand them.

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Good night ...Yawl.

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   Claudin_Dayoposted 13 years ago

   nice question..!! Well if you believe on something, there is certainly a reason behind it. But when it comes to evidence if there is really a God that exist I think the best evidence is you and everything around you..

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4. 61

   spookyfoxposted 13 years ago

   If you dream that you are touching a sandwhich and eating it, tasting it perfectly, would you say that sandwhich is real? No, even though you've tasted it and touched. So why isn't it real? When you eat a sandwhich you don't directly feel the taste objectively, your tongue and your nose tell your brain they're in contact with this and that, and your brain recognizes it and tells you you're eating that good old tuna sandwich you love so much. So it isn't just taste, it's also smell, touch (if it had the texture of a liquid you'd get confused), along with memory of previous sandwiches, perhaps even also your mood, etc. But the tricky part is, you can experience all that without the sandwich, by dreaming or hallucinating, because the way you feel the sandwich is not in the sandwich per se, but within yourself (that's why you could love it while someone else finds it disgusting).
   
   So what am I saying here, that sandwiches are a myth? Of course not. Why not? Because there are such things as sandwiches outside dreams and hallucinations. But here's the thing: there are no traces of god outside the human mind. The so called evidence for god's existence is nothing but trying to link those feelings and thoughts that are only in our minds (purpose, or to be more precise, the lack of one; the origin of everything; unexplained coincidences; etc.), with reality. There is nothing in Nature itself that could lead you, or anyone, to believe that whoever created trees, Jupiter and whales, also wrote 10 things human beings should not do to each other.
   
   In other words, if I took the bag where the bread came from and the tuna can, I could read the labels and find out that both elements came from the same store, because there is information in the sandwich itself to link them to a common place. There is no such evidence whatsoever with atoms, waves, light, water, gravity, etc., that link them with the bible, the 10 comandments, the Qur'an, heaven, divine justice, or any religious concept at all.

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5. 60

   Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years ago

   I don't know who coined the statement, but it seems appropriate for this venue. "EVERYTHING is possible but NOTHING is real". See ya.

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6. 61

   spookyfoxposted 13 years ago

   But then again there'd be no point in rational evidence would it? If we had proof of god, you'd need no faith.
   
       "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
       "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. Q.E.D."
       "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
       "Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

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      Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Douglas Adams was a delightful genius, wasn't he?

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   kessposted 13 years ago

   what is real?
   
   where does reality come from?
   
   how does reality coincide with truth?
   
   is reality truth?
   
   reality is all things and nothing both truth and false.
   
   reality comes  from nowhere and goes everywhere.
   
   Truth is within all reality.
   Reality became because of truth.
   But there is no reality without truth.
   
   You cannot find truth by searching out reality because reality did not father truth.
   
   All reality is known because you know truth.
   For Truth is the Father of reality.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Can't disagree that that.

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8. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   If you dream that you are touching a sandwich and eating it, tasting it perfectly, would you say that sandwich is real? No, even though you've tasted it and touched.
   
   - - - -
   
      Then while you are dreaming about the sandwich, it fulfills the definition of real.
   
      When you remember the sandwich that you had yesterday, it also fulfills the definition.
   
      Is the sandwich that you had yesterday real.
      Not any longer you might say.
   
      I would conclude that THAT definition of real  isn't real.
   
     Which is the only point that I was making in the OP.

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      if you're imagining it, it's a delusion.  You might be convinced it's real.  Is that imaginery sandwich going  to actually feed you.  No

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I don't know ?  It might if we stayed it that sleep dimension?   Don't know!
         
            It is too early for me to think ?
         
           I think what I was getting at last night is that we have different definitions of THE DEFINITIONS depending upon what we are talking about.
         
            So dreams are not real either?? can not touch or smell one.
         
            I gotta go put in another 10 hour day painting the outside of a house.
         
           When I check back in I hope there is some proof that dreams are real that they do exist.
         
           Or at least a better definition of what real is.
         
           I'm confused.   Thanks!

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      spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Dude, no, dreams are not real, that was the whole point of my post,  that even though we might experience them with our senses they're an illusion. I was making an analogy between dreams and god, because the reason most people believe in god is because they 'felt' him, and I was pointing out that perhaps that feeling was made by your own brain, without god, just like it can taste a sandwich without a sandwich.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think that you are missing my point.
            I am not arguing the existence of God.
            
           "A" Dream itself is a real thing. 
           I can experience a dream.  You can experience a dream. 
           I can not experience YOUR dream therefore your dream does not exist in my reality.
         
           I can not examine the contents of your dream in any way as to say if it is real or not.
           Nor can you see mine.
         
            Some people see only words
            Some people see sentences, while others see pages of words , some people see a whole book.

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            spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            A dream is not real.

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               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The state of dreaming is real.
               
               The reality of its contents can be disputed.
               
               Awake ...  Not awake.    Two states of the human condition.

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                  spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  There's no point in disputing the content of a dream (in this thread).
                  
                  The state of madness is also real. Doesn't mean the hallucinations that come with it are too.
                  
                  Dreams are subjective, so is madness, so is god.

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                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I agree and have been doing so with your statements in this last post except for your last three words.
                     
                       I gotta go make a living some more....  back later.

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                        spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Well you'll be glad to hear you're not the only one. People who suffer from madness also wouldn't agree about their experiences and feelings being illusive

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                           Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I agree with this part of your comment...  People suffer from madness  and we all deny that fact.
                           
                              Everyone is being pointed at    when this subject is being discussed.     So everyone agrees that everyone else is mad.
                           
                             It must be true.

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   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   I disagree with your first statement, Jarami.  I've never seen an electron, but it exists.  I can't see a magnetic field, but it's there.  Radioactivity can't be sensed, but is real.
   
   There are lots of things we can't see, but can see the effects of or detect with suitable instruments.  Unfortunately none of those things is a God or verifiably the results of a God.

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      libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nobody has really seen an atom either! The only way we know an atom exists is by indirect evidence...such as bouncing an electron off an atom! An electron is even smaller than an atom! Much is learned by logic and reason and correclty assembling previous knowledge. Holes are filled with conjecture, theories, and more discovery! This is how we know the make-up of an atom without ever seeing it!
      
      According to science, there is no truth scientifically that a God doesn't exist. In other words, a true scientist cannot prove that God doesn't exist. That would be omniscience! All a true scientist can do is say there's no evidence to prove a God does exist.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree with my first statement also.
         Guess I wasn't expressing myself clear enough.
      
         They   say   that   God  isn't    real    cause  we can not pick up on him with our five senses.
      
         There are many things that we can not pick up on with only these five.

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         libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree! We can't prove love exists scientifically but it does!
         
         God isn't physical nor is he of this earth...therefore it's impossible for science to prove his existence!

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            We know that the paranormal exists.
            
               Science agrees   but doesn't really know what it is.  That is why science calls these occurrences Paranormal.
            
               Science does not know how to develop a test to prove that it exist ???   Does not know what kind of machine that is required to substantiate Paranormal activity even though science termed the phrase Paranormal.
            
               Science acknowledges that they just do not know much outside of their own parameters.
            
               The only thing that we can say that we known about GOD, is from our own personal experiences.
               That seems to be what works best, cause that is the way that he does it.
            
              All else is hear say.

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               libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Very true! And truthfully I don't believe God wants us to prove he exists! Because if he wanted that he would simply reveal himself to everyone worldwide! He wants people to come to him of their own free will! And think about it... right now he doesn't show himself so people say he doesn't exist.. imagine if he showed himself... then they would say "why does God do this, or that?"
               
               If he fixed all our problems and made everything perfect all the time humans would turn further away from him,not knowing it was him, and think that we do just fine all on our own!

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10. 59

    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    ....,and think that we do just fine all on our own!
    
        I think that this is when he backed up just a little.
    When the Hebrew people wanted a king. Like all the other nations of peoples.   They thought ;  "all that we need is a King!"
    
       He backed up just enough to be out of sight.
       I've done that with my children when they were younger.

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       getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ...then we all watched Harry Potter, because it made so much more sense.

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    hanging outposted 13 years ago

    If people want evidence of God they can pray the sinners prayer and that will be all the evidence they will need.

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       libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Very, very True!!! It's as simple as a prayer with honest intent!

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          spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          So, god doesn't want to gives us any proof that he exists, but if we pray we'll get some evidence. Got it.

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       getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Can I pray to Allah?  Believe it or not, there are people just as fanatical about Allah being the only God, as you are about your illogical God.  How do you explain that?

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    CMCastroposted 13 years ago

    What is said in the book of John chapter 8, verse 32 is REAL! It says, "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

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    maruthirpposted 13 years ago

    People can see or sense 3 dimensional only. There is another dimension called 4th dimension. To sense that dimension you need obtain certain abilities. Then you will say that God is real.

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       libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Actually the 4th dimension is time! I believe what you are thinking about is the string theory.

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          Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Perhaps, he's referring to the Fifth Dimension?
          
          Didn't they have a hit in the 70's?

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