Here's the twist... How can you prove that God doesn't exist?

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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
You base your answers as much as possible with Science...
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Logically it is impossible to prove the non-existence of anything, because to do so it would be necessary to 'look' in every location for all time.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice reply Para, yeah it is essential to know all the angles first as much as possible in all corners to come up with a witty and factual observation and conclusion...
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THANK YOU VERY MUCH> FINALLY, someone else says it like it is.
  Therefore, NO-ONE can categorically say that God does NOT exist.
  Sorry for shouting, but this I found VERY exciting.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah I really appreciate your shouting Buddy... This will level the playing field...
  
  I am just returning the favor...
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  Sheila watsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like we even thinking about the question does God exist, its really not working just for the main reason that we need a sustainer and who i ask is our sustainer? God does exist in many ways and in diffrent forms so negative thinkers, live with that. nice topic though.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Your God does not exist.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL too...
  
  Then prove it can't you read the rule I set above I guess you know how to read... Mr. Knowles...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hehehehe I can read hehehe but you do not set the rules and hehehe as you now know it is hehehe logically impossible to prove hehehe a negative.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can set the rules anytime I want I can still modify this thread...
  
  Given there are no rules how then can you prove that there is no GOD... An LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL answer will not prove anything...
  
  This exception is set for you...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I cannot prove a negative. It is logically impossible to do so. Sorry - what did you not understand about that?
  
  It is - of course - possible to prove a positive.
  
  Be my guest.............
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It can be negative to you but how about others be considerate my dear Buddy...
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So what you are saying is 314-525= -211 is impossible to prove? heeheehee.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  aka-dj - why so excited? I've said that many times before, here and in hubs. However, it doesn't alter the fact that there is no burden of proof on atheists or agnostics. The burden of proof is on those who assert God's existence. At least, there is if they want to be believed.
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  kessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is impossible for one to convince another by words of the way nature and person of God.
  For unless the Spirit of God draws that one the words are useless.
  
  Within and around a person is more than enough convincing evidence and if that is not enough then nothing else can.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The excitement is because, your answer recognises what I have been arguing all along. NO atheist is able to DEFINITIVELY declare, "there is no God".
  They can say they "don't believe", "refuse to accept", or "cannot find evidence for the existence of"...etc.all day long, and I'll accept that.
  It is ignorance and arrogance to say it "absolutely" NO GOD.
  
  The truth is, that those who DO say that, are basically baiting believers for an argument.
  
  If I'm in the mood I'll bite, but otherwise I could care less.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your god absolutely does not exist and evolution proves this. You are wrong.
  
  A god? Meh - maybe........ 100% lack of proof in favor is a pretty good argument against.......
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Mark. Not in the mood. Been here b4.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't blame you. I would keep my irrational beliefs quiet in the face of overwhelming proof against if I were you.
  
  Good choice.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but to date you have not given me even ONE. Every time you are challenged for presenting some, you duck for cover, (behind ridicule, and the like).
  Show me the MONEY dude.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude - the burden of proof is on you. You have not shown me any proof at all. None. Why is that?
  
  Evolution proves your god does not exist.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh God, not this again. Don't you know that Bible thumpers will deny evolution to the grave!?
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to burst your bubble, but the inability to disprove something does not prove it.
  
  There is still no proof for God's existence, so that point really makes no headway for your cause. I'd like to think that most rational individuals realize that there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist, however there is also not a bit of proof of his existence.
  
  You can't prove to me that a flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but that doesn't mean that a spaghetti monster exists.
  
  Of course it is ignorance and arrogance to say there is absolutely NO chance that a God exists, however I think that depends on the subjective definition of God. There is a lot of evidence that the God defined in Judeo-Christian religion does not exist. That does not mean that "God" in a different form doesn't exist.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please, send me some well researched sources of ALL this EVIDENCE. Since there is so much of it, it shouldn't be hard.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why don't we do it the easy way. You send us the proof in favor first. There is a little bit less of that.
  
  Oh - and the existence of trees does not work.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is exactly what I mean. Counter challenge.
  But certainly NOT coming up with "the money".
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Judeo-Christian description:
  
  God is all knowing.
  
  God is all good.
  
  God is all powerful.
  
  Would you argue against these?
  
  Satan and evil exist.
  
  There is your proof that the Judeo-Christian god does not exist.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good good.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And your point is?????
  Do you know the origin of Satan, and evil?
  Obviously you do.
  This was heavily debated on another thread not too long ago.
  If you want to find it, go for it, but I don't intend to pursue it here as a (new)topic
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't want to spend the time finding and churning out all the evidence against the Judeo-Christian God. I'm on vacation...
  
  http://www.google.com.au/search?q=proof … =firefox-a
  
  I'll let Google do the work for me.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hope this doesn't spoil your holiday. Maybe enter a less contentious thread will help.
  BTW, the following came up as No1 on the Google serch you gave me a link to.
  http://www.proof-of-evolution.com/creat … dence.html
  
  Relax, and enjoy. Actually, have a beer/wine on me.
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  cluenseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I completely agree with You!
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just like the flying dildo monster, you've never seen one so you can't disprove it, but you know it's stupid=)
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ... or the Flying Spaghetti Monster for another example.
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  built4dkillposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ramen to that but FSM is not a GOD to me it is nonsense...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All gods are nonsense!
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  built4dkillposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then you believe there is god bwahahaha, you just said it pal.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Aw - General Howitzer - you give it away too easy.
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  built4dkillposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Awwwwwwww Mark hahahahhahahaha
  
  You just know my signature now you just blew my party... Not a good try...
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  built4dkillposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are so good sigh...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well a three year olds nananananana to you too, and an "I told you so" grow up!
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  built4dkillposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah you are right... Buddy... Mark caught me offguard hayz...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How dare you disrespect the One True God. At least She shows Herself - unlike the pathetic jesus wotsit.
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  built4dkillposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hehehe why I cannot see your brain but I knew you have a brain your words doesn't sound any logic at all...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  really? there's nothing logical about knowing what stupid is? ok so you don't believe in the dildo monster, but you believe in the virgin birth, the talking snake, a man living inside the whale, turning water into wine, the raising of the dead. i don't believe in these things, you'r right, i am stupid=)
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then there is no point discussing with you, besides why did you drag the virgin here, but I do believe in that wine thing and the raising of the dead... If I believe on it you have no right to take that away from me, it's my freewill Buddy and I hope you'll take that, I was so extremely generous before to you by talking to you in a nice manner to the best of my capabilities.
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you mean my opinion gets bashed and I retaliate and then you get in the mix and act all noble, right, you're so nice=)
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think it can be proven that a creator doesn't exist. I think it can be proven that the bible and other religious text contradict logic. I also think that a lot of religious like to use the fact that a creator can't be disproved to promote their selected faith or religion telling people it's their way or no way.
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  apekshaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God doesnt exists ...
  The god exists in you..
  have u ever seen god?
  either met him/her?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the reply...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That one Scientific enough for you?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Weeeeeeee finally my Mr. Knowles the great Hubber that get my respect and I admire at first, then lose it, is gaining the respect I have for him again you are maturing although you are already matured...
  
  Yeah this is scientific and very witty too...
  
  I can be true but you can be true too... only time can tell that...
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  just checkin in....Cags and I were in on this saying the exact same thing at 6:00 a.m. today. Glad to see it still going
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Stimp,
  
  Please don't put me places I haven't been.
  
  At 6 am this morning, my a$$ was still in bed sleeping.
  
  Besides, never account for someone else unless you can back it up, with the other person.
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You said "back it up".... How do you know, in fact, I was talking 'bout you. My kitten is named Cags.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, I'll give you that one.
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  Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's what she said....
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  cbfglassposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Original Testament
  
  Recovery of ones inner will
  often times lost at the start
  evolves into life’s quest
  which for some seems hard.
  Corralled by Sheppard’s praising
  their obedient blind flocks
  lead many on wayward path
  away from my heavenly stars.
  Rotate away from the norm
  begin ones self journey home
  trust your guide with heart
  in the mirrors of his eyes
  you will discover yourself
  silhouette but ready to start.
  
  COPYWRITE CALVIN BRUCE FUSSELL II
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pair Production: in which a pair of elementary particles (a particle and its antiparticle of the same mass but opposite electrostatic charge) are created from the energy (hf) of the original photon.
  
  http://physics.pdx.edu/~egertonr/ph311- … &a.htm
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hmmm and that points to what...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your question was wanting proof your god didn't exist and to use science to justify. There you have it.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i dont see factual about what you have written kindly state what you have had said in Layman's term so that me and the other people around would know what you are up to... I might believe in you doing so...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excuse me? Laymans terms?
  
  Uh, didn't you ask for proof of gods non-existence and use science to justify?
  
  Are you now saying that you don't even understand the science provided for you?
  
  Why did you ask, then?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Streams of Consciences Dreams
  Follow the Yellow brick Roads; streams of conscience dreams, in a worldly position, of Ceo with Tennis elbow.
  Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Hello of a morning night mirage, in a prayer of horror, form a mural, eulogy, forming mirrors, formulate evolutional morphing, horror, forming fort, forks pouring, forming more forms, a parasite more cellular morphing a cancerous cell a morphing silence, of forms, torch your fire, the cell of terror once worn,
  The conscience mind is the renaissance.
  If the battle of restrictions, of wrong or right, left or right, we would fight the hypocrisy, of the subjective nature, in the forums of streams of the extremes.
  The moral desire, is the design of moral, configuring moral formations beyond contemplations, as we grow older, we are the form, of moral forms, or we are the forms of moral thorns, for the world we know will form moral storms, if we form notions, of notions, reflecting deflection, immoral forms, we will create a world of desert storm.
  Humbug, the chairman once said to the notion every day a Christmas once mass.
  Gring scream once Christmas dreams, the forms once more the ghost of your moral form.
  Streams of conscience dreams the conscience mind will hold the test of time, the extreme means of desire resigns the moral streams of dreams.
  Silence the dreams of desire, and the hypocrisy, of evil, is the desire, of moral sociological forums.
  Darrell W. Morehouse 111
  http://ddoingit1.blogspot.com
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is the moral define moral to dossis of moral ten, thou shall not hurt a living breathing, moral wrong of left or right
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  TimTurnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Logic.
  
  Believing in some magic wizard in the sky that snapped his fingers to create everything and then we have to worship him/her/it or face all hell (pun intended). We're not supposed to question him/her/it and just blindly follow him/her/it.
  
  Does that sound logical at all?
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  adauphinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Escape out of Earth and let me know what logical things you find up there. Is it logical that gravity allows us to walk on earth but not on the moon? Shouldn't gravity allows us to walk anywhere in the universe?
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  Pacal Votanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't the existence of Mark Knowles proof enough?!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be enough for any sane person, but.......
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It would be, but there are not too many rationally sane people in the world today.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no, we're NOT using you as the benchmark of sanity are we?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Flattery will get you nowhere.
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It has so far
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only in your dreams it has...
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  Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Um, good one.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah sure why not, but not me of course and the other Theists...
  
  You are entitled to your own ideas whatsoever...
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  pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sensable people decline to step into a loaded question.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thinking people...
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  DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can you prove he does?
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
you can't prove that god doesn't exist, also, you can't prove that a flying sphagetti monster doesnt exist, has anyone seen a flying sphagetti monster? no right? so you can't really disprove something you've never seen, including god, so really, anything you make up cannot be disproven=)
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you so much Buddy... for the reply...
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  Spaghetti Monsterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My devotees who hang out at the Beer mountain and my Stripper factory will certainly tell you that I exist!
  
  You are all welcome at the overflowing bowl of the F.S.M.
  
  RAmen.
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i see that you are also a fan of southpark, respect to you my friend=)
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was born in Italy on a spaghetti Farm which was six inches wide and twenty miles long,BELIEVE me,I have Seen many Flying Spaghetti Monsters,We even put up scare sphegetti Monster things but to no avail,now we use RAGU guns to squirt them as they fly over our crops and drop there meatballs...
  thought youd like to know...peace..
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ahahahahahahahahaha that was so funny=)
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  adauphinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not so fast. We all know about spaghetti and monster and flying. That disproves itself easily. This analogy is not a good one.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  NO! We don't know.
  
  Here is the issue. I would like somebody to PROVE that the FSM isn't a God, and that all that is said in The Gospel of the FSM is not true.
  
  So just do this and we'll be on our way.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Every one knows that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is The One True God. Only a fool would deny this with so much evidence in favor.
  
  Even this one admits to knowing Spaghetti and Monster and Flying.
  
  PROOF!
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  adauphinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you say you don't know about Spaghetti and Monster and Flying you must be a blind alien who just landed on earth some minutes ago.
  And also this is a serious forum, if you don't have anything to say on the matter, just keep scrolling and read other people's thoughts.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry - you are disrespecting my god here. Quoting the bible - admitting you are unable to grasp it and then attacking my beliefs? WTF dude?
  
  There is more proof for FSM than your pathetic god.
  
  We rule.
  
  RAmen.
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  adauphinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  WTF dude?
  what kind of language is that in a religious forum?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, last time I checked, YOU were not a moderator. You don't like people just catching up with one another, then sit back and shut up.
  
  I mean after all, don't you READ your bible. No your place and sit there and be quiet, like your pathetic little god wants you to do. You know- you are suppose to listen to your god's will.
  
  Yet, you run your mouth like you think you know what your own religious beliefs really are. You are just as bad as the book you peddle as a belief.
  
  Just to let you know- FACTS are usually how people determine what is real. The bible may have some historical facts about society as a whole, as history has already recorded.
  
  But, what you fail to realize is that science and many other fields, combined- have disspelled this foolish notion that there is a god above looking out for us. Your problem is that you can't see it, because you are blinded by your own faith.
  
  So, you have a nice day now.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever... Veering away from my question do not throw smokescreen...
  
  However, FSM though not a powerful entity can be God if you treat him one no one restricts you to do it. It is your unique identity to use your freewill...
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  mr williamsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That was a great point. We can't prove God doesn't exist for the simple fact that we can't prove he does exist.... That simple! Good topic though. If I see a sphagetti monster I'm running for the hills lol
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
I heard somewhere that when jesus flew into heaven he was picked up by a magical flying dildo with angel wings, true or not, you can't disprove it, but hey, that's what I beleve=)
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Magic word is Science Buddy...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you should tell that to everyone=)
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said that on top already in a nice manner
  ...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  don't single me out then mr. nice manners=)
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hehehe your dildo thing get into my nerves Buddy apologies to you my dear friend...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's what i was talking about when I said 1 track minds, I had the exact same answer as the mark knowles you admire, i just explained it in a different way=)
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paulhvvposted 14 years ago
Your twist being prove God exists?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a previous thread already which is opposite of this thread. I hope you get it...
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
gentlemen of the forum:

these are the arguments ontologically which we can use to prove there is god, but it is not absoulute by the way, thats why I believe there is GOD because I can feel him with all my heart..., and have faith that there is GOd.

Anselm “God exists” by way of the following
premises:
· God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived.
· We can conceive of a God.
· Reality is greater than conception.
\ God must exist in order to be the greatest being that can be conceived.

Descartes’ argument is based upon the following premises:
· Whatever belongs to the essential nature of something cannot be denied it.
· God’s essence includes existence.
\ Existence must be affirmed of God.

Plantinga looked at the idea that God has all perfects, and also at the idea of
contingency and formed the following premises to support his conclusion:
· In a contingent universe there is a possible world in which resides a being with maximal greatness.
· A being is only maximally great if it exists in all possible worlds.
· Our universe is contingent.
\ A being exits in our world with maximal greatness, He exists in all worlds, we
call this being God.

We can use the example of money to demonstrate that existence makes no addition to something’s intrinsic value. If we conceive of a £10 note, then we are thinking of £10.
If we are holding a £10 note, then we are holding £10. Whether or not the note exists does not alter what it is, it merely alters it relativistic value to us as humans (since
imagining money doesn’t make it very valuable to us, but what it is has not changed).

you can use dollar or peso by the way!
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - we are not bothering with science any more then?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah it is Sir Knowles...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes there is. Religionists to a man! No credible scientist believes in the bible unless they are religionists. Look on Google.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even Albert Einstein...
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Einstein.
  
  "I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind"
  Einstein said and did a lot of things, made many mistakes, and had a religious upbringing by the way!
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He said that in his deepest admiration for the natural universe... in this way and only in this way is he a deeply religious man.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The ontological argument is more simple than you make it out, as such: if I can imagine god, he must exist. Imagining something does not mean it exists. I might imagine three million planets, each ruled by a secret society of apes living underground and each ruling ape of each planet meeting at the ruling planet to decide the fate of all apes. That ape is god. I just imagined that so it is true?
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fatfistposted 14 years ago
Negatives can be proven and are proven every day.
Hint: Can you prove that Richard Dawkins is not standing beside you at this moment?

What is "actually" meant by "you cannot prove a negative" is that we don't usually set out to prove negative claims. There is no point in doing that. The onus is on the person making the positive claim, to prove it. Otherwise their claim is dismissed or can be taken as belief. That's it.

Richard Dawkins is famous for saying that we have to check every location in the universe to prove there is no god or there are no fairies. Yes, that is one way, but impractical. There are other ways too. An easy way is to form a logical contradiction on the positively predicated claim. This is why theists "refuse" to positively predicate god, otherwise it would be "extremely" easy to prove that defined god as impossible. They only define god via Negative Theology. And this proves that god does indeed exist. But only exists as a conceptual entity in people's minds, a necessity, and not contingent on any facts.
By looking at the evidence in their scriptures, it is easy to prove that Jesus of NT is not god, God of OT is not god, and Allah of Koran is not god, as well as others.

If you want to use science, then "god exists" by virtue of the definition of the word "exist". So define "exist" unambiguously, then we can talk about science.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can always prove that Dawkins cannot stand beside me he is in wheel chair whoa...
  
  To prove the existence Buddy, look for the evidence it is with you everyday...
  
  You have great insight with your post and I truly impressed with it... You are welcome to post anytime...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how do you know he can't stand beside you? you don't know him personally, maybe he's just faking it, if not then how do you know for sure?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if he's faking it then that no longer bothers me...
  
  Can you talk like more of sense and substance...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  then now it makes sense not to be so sure all the time, there is nothing wrong with doubt my friend, it's a step to get closer to the truth=)
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are confusing Dawkins with Stephen Hawking
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getitriteposted 14 years ago
I think you are, cleverly, trying to use science to justify your belief in a nonsensical religion. Very clever, but disturbing, and desperate.
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ninjacrazeposted 14 years ago
It is totally impossible to prove that the one mighty doesn't exist, it is impossible
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
The thread is all yours to prove it... go ahead and be my guests...

the truth is based on facts not with just hearsay and nonsense things sorry for my French my friend it should be proven with the acid test of Scientific method...

On my belief God created the universe with Science and you cannot take that away from me... to say I am desperate hehehe... tells me something about you...
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are not looking for the truth. You are, desperately, trying to avoid the obvious: That your beliefs are delusional. The science of Psychiatry states:
  
  Delusion--A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality, that is firmly sustained, despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you wish to define it merely through a dictionary explanation then I assume you are correct. But does the dictionary adequately define all that is human?
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does the dictionary need to adequately define all that is human? We are talking science in this forum. I simply pointed out a definition of a term from the field of Psychiatry.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You just bypassed my post, what is Actual Science to you, does it complies with Scientific Method? Why then you use the word delusional, when it is you doesn't know the essence and meaning of Science ... Do not escape my axe here Buddy...
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know the premise of this post. You are asking that we prove a negative. I am well aware of the scientific method, and the fact that a negative can not be proven. BUT that still doesn't make your god any more believable.
  
  So to give you an answer: The non existence of anything cannot be proven. HOW DO YOU SEE THIS AS ANY INDICATION THAT YOUR RELIGION MAKES ANY SENSE. OR THAT IT HAS ANY INTEGRITY? You have done nothing here!
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again you whipped out a careless statement I'm just trying to point out if God doesn't exists It's not my job to sway people to believe in God here, and never done that here in this thread you are so careless with your words man... The fact that you are replying makes you do something literally hehehe and again for the third time you are refuting yourself... hehehe...
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, no more reponses from me! DELUSIONAL falls way short of describing what's really afflicting you. And your grammar is absurd and confusing. CARELESS? You are not living in reality, so any critique of me from you means nothing. This is downright silly. You know nothing of debate or even how to constuct a sentence properly. You have some nerve!
  
  Goodbye,
  
  !!!PLEASE DON'T RESPOND!!!
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is my thread...
  
  "constuct", look whose talking nyahahaha you refuted yourself for the fourth time...
  
  Stay cool Buddy...
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree that the two are somewhat different but when dealing with spiritual things that defy absolute explanation a definition that ties it to absolutes such as false, incorrect, reality, incontrovertible and obvious don't quite make it when defining the nature of the practice of the unseen which is faith.
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fatfistposted 14 years ago
Another misconception is that "atheists or agnostics don't have faith".
Faith is a human attribute. Faith doesn't care what club you belong to. When I go diving, I have "faith" that I won't get attacked by a shark. I have no proof. I don't even have any "objective belief" that I can base on previous experience that I won't get attacked. A popular argument is that sharks are not out to eat humans. True, but they are out to find food, whether human or not.

Faith is used on a daily basis by ALL humans, whether they realize it or not. Nothing wrong with faith.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you have great ideas here but it seems to me your great thoughts are veering away from the topic sorry to tickle your bubbles dont worry though we're on the same League I believe that God exists...
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
whatever happened to just using common sense?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scientific method is the basis here not with just common sense... We're on Science right?
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  common sense is science, how did you not see that?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hehehe...
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
that a lot of people are not using it enough that's why so many people are being mislead, we humans tend to embrace the mysterious and dramatic and the impossible, if there was no mystery and magic in the bible, no one would care enough about it=)
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Awwwww... speak Science please not with Scriptures...
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  dude, do you even know what science is? are serious about what you just said?
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
I dont see proof on it sorry... i just saw it (link) and points towards nothing to disprove God...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I see, so your just dismissing it because you don't understand it.
  
  It would appear your inquiry here is not really an inquiry at all but has some ulterior motive. What is your agenda here?
  
  If people provide answers to your questions, you would be intellectual dishonest to simply dismiss them without taking the time to understand.
  
  Perhaps, you made this thread to feel smug?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you cannot fully understand what you are pointing to with your link then it is you who is creating smokescreen, if you tend to disprove anything don't just rely on cut and paste and at the same time claim something, besides you don't even know by heart the claims you are citing, and you are not also sure of the veracity of the cut and paste you've done, like is that a law already and tried and tested... "My initial impression" about your subject is a scientific finding that is not yet proven...
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do fully understand what I linked, but clearly you do not. And, that is the entire point, isn't it, the fact that you refuse to understand and dismiss everything in favor of your beliefs. You obviously have no intention of accepting anything beyond your beliefs. Your "initial impression" is irrelevant without an understanding.
  
  Again, seems you just started this thread to bait others.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see your link, you are not presenting me a valid fact... and only Laws are widely accepted facts in Science not just mere Scientific Theories or recent findings...
  
  You are highly presumptous you don't even know what I've been through with Mark... and I don't even expect Mark to post in this thread since we've been through heated argument before...
  
  I am just returning the favor Buddy... and it's not my purpose to bait for exposure... funny... I'm too old as Hubber to do that hehehe, besides many of my traffic comes from search engine. Hayz
  
  The fact that no one can prove the non-existence of God not even the greatest Scientists past and present,is an overwhelming proof that God exists, and the fact that Science refutes the Evolution Theory well, speaks lofty about God's existence...
  
  Science could prove the existence of God and there is no doubt about it...
  
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't appear to understand what the information in the link represents so I doubt you know it's validity either.
  
  Don't care, it's irrelevant.
  
  Here's a real hard, cold fact for you. You asked for evidence from strictly a scientific perspective, and you got it. You don't understand science but you dismiss the scientific evidence presented to you and continue standing on your soapbox as if you were in Hyde Park.
  
  In other words, you aren't interested one iota in any scientific evidence. You just want to beat your chest.
  
  That's a fact.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Science doesn't understand so many things , means science is not all knowing but is still growing in knowledge. :)We keep discovering things, they were there but we didn't know about it scientifically.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah you are right...
  
  Ten years from now some theories that exists now will be the laughing stock of tomorrow... and that was proven with the inaccuracies posted by Evolution Theory...
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So many discoveries meaning these laws already existed have been made in this last century.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There's no proof in the link you've posted,has no substance to prove anything...
  
  Hehehe come out in the open hehehe, show some courage by not using a ghost account doing a not so prolific hatchet job... I think that will make sense and sensible enough than your "empty" link...
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but that is not true. I can claim that there is a tartan eel with a head at each end and science can't prove there isn't. That does not mean that there is.
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  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As I said before, he is cleverly trying to use "science" to justify his delusional nonsensical beliefs. He could care less about actual science.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actual science is based on Scientific Method hehehe, you are carelessly refuting yourself, in other words it is self-inflicted wound on your part... Buddy the fact that no one cannot prove the non-existence of God is what is making you delusional hehehe do not throw smokescreen...
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
Of course, having said that it is logically impossible to prove non-existence of God, if proponents then go on to define God, it can happen that their specific definition can be shown not to exist as described, e.g. if the description is logically inconsistent.

For example, if you claim that God is an omnipresent spirit who sits on a throne, that's a non-starter. So you have to be careful what attributes you assign to your God, because many God-models really can be proved non-existent. To be safe, better assign your God no properties at all except for existence
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
the fact is science have proven more than faith, you can't even measure the gap of proof between science and the faith shoved in our brains since we were little, i'm not saying there is no god but I don't weant to be scared by hell to believe in god.
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
We are talking about Science here and only acceptable "Laws" will make sense...
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thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years ago
Interesting thread to say the least. Atheist are proof of God(even if they claim the latter), because you cannot negate something unless that something exists.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic … sOF7ZTAOk8
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You think an atheist proves your bible correct as the definer of a creator?
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I respect you marine... you always have great thoughts and insights, and paraglider whips out something that tells a lot of immense intelligence too...
  
  I hope both of you will see the the truth... it seems to me that Paganism and other false Christian teachings smothered your trust and spirits... I cannot blame the two of you for being such an staunch atheist I hope I'm correct I stand corrected... I see the light already and I hope that is real...
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how the streams of dreams of the antics equations, to the forum I have dream all brothers and sisters will stand together
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's we thye People, stand hold true, fortress fortitude am I my brithers desire of am I all men of Alpha
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To say Aithiest is to think from a secular perical partishioner of a formulated ndesire of non logical heart of forming logical forums form form of mirrors and see the desire of mortified form
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  ddoingit1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  General - I do not like labels and try to avoid applying them to others. But I have said repeatedly here and elsewhere that I do not consider myself Atheist, simply because, logically, one can't prove non-existence. (By the way, the statement made by others that you can't prove a negative is so loose as to be meaningless). If you want to call me something, call me Rationalist. Better still, just try to understand what I write. The idea that there is one thing that can be called 'the truth' is simplistic. Unless, of course, you can demonstrate that I am wrong, by summarising 'the truth' in a few short clear sentences? Anyone?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Paraglider. This is not unlike Pontious Pilate's question to Jesus, "what is truth?"
  The answer He gave was silence. But elsewhere He did define Truth.
  You have had it quoted here on HP, repeatedly.
  I'm sure you know it.
  Your'e welcome.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Making a true statement is stating a truth, not stating the truth.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Which truth statement did He make?
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "The poor you have always with you" appears to be true. "I am the way, the truth and the light" is untestable, in my view!
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Works for me. If you want "testable", can't help you there.
  It's up to Him to "prove" that to you personally.
  But, that, of course is a matter of faith.
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just as I thought, Yeah Sir rationalist...
  
  No, there's no need the truth that might be okay to me may not apply to you... Forget about it...
  
  Good day though and as I said earlier I stand corrected and I always respect the freewill and unique identity of others...
  
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
By the way you don't have a concrete reply with my previous post about Actual Science... hehehe statement based on your ideas will not work Buddy...

Does Science cannot prove the non-existence of God we are just heating up Dude, you are yielding already... Science is built to disproof anything even those that doesn't exist...

and that is why The Evolution Theory is still a Theory because there is no fact that exists that this theory (READ THIS) is a "LAW".
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ddoingit1posted 14 years ago
Ther can only be one winner of faith

GOD get it yet!!!!!!
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am holding my ground here and so far done good enough...
  
  I hope you are right here...
  
  Good day...
  
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bukanposted 14 years ago
God is on your soul if you trust or faith it, until it does not exist!
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
Burden of proof fallacy, oh so popular with religious apologists. Here is a link for you all, it is a very short read.

Nizkor.org BURDEN OF PROOF FALLACY
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
I prayed for a bike for christmas and I got a bike! I love you God....
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
Here is a proof for you, PROOF THAT RELIGION IS CORRUPT
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks BC
  You did not have to give me a reference to convince me of this.
  I already believe this. Religion is not only corrupt, but also bankrupt (not financially speaking).
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "CHRISTIANS ATTEND CHURCH," aka-dj.
  
  Am I missing something? Really, why lie?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do I lie, or do you NOT understand?
  What is "CHURCH"?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are trying to be cute, its not working. I think I have reached the end of my resources with you, maybe I'll tag out of this one....
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Another one heads for the hills.
  Maybe, if you don't know what the answer to my question is, you could either research it, or just simply ask.
  I don't bite, nor am I easily offended.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You sure do preach though. Is it OK with you that some one test drove my wife before I married her? Did god tell you this directly into your head?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOL That's funny.
  Well maybe not.You were offended were you?
  Must have been God, because I wouldn't know anything about your wife. Would I?
  I certainly didn't have you on my mind when I wrote that. (which, BTW was in context to the topic of the thread, not an attack on anyone specific.)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Quite right - it was judging other people's behavior in general rather than a direct attack on anyone specific. You guys are real good at that.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Am I condemning people, if I said, "don't drive over the speed limit. You WILL be fined"?
  "Standards". Have you heard of things like standards, etc?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Standards and fines. So I have no standards and I will be fined. Interesting.
  
  OK - So what would you have done in my position? I was 32 years old when my first wife died. Should I have found myself a 15 year old virgin or gone celibate?
  
  According to your "standards" that I am going to be fined for breaking?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not my (personal) business.
  The Bible (standard)releases you from your marriage covenant upon your wife's death. You are free to marry another.
  If you are asking me if having sexual relations with your (new, future) wife before you marry her is wring, yes it is.
  See, I still don't know whether or not you did, so I am NOT judging, merely stating the Biblical standard. You may be innocent, you may be guilty. That's your business!!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent cop out dj.
  
  Wonderful stuff.
  
  You are NOT judging me - you are telling me what GOD told you. Not through this "personal" relationship, but from a book.
  
  Wonderful. So - no responsibility for you then? You can say what you like and point the finger - but it is not you saying it - it is GOD saying it - you are just telling me to help save me.
  
  You are a genuine christian alright - no question.
  
  Now - you are lying here, but I do not want to get into that as this is a personal matter but thank you for reminding me why I despise your religion and proving to me once again that your god does not exist.
  
  ciao
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Save you?? You don't need saving.I heard that lots of times from you.
  I didn't point the finger (at you), as I said. But,if you want to step into the firing line, expect to get hit. If what I said was not applicable to you, why bother getting upset? Were you guilty? (don't answer, I don't care, nor want to know)
  See ya. Another on rnns for the hills. (sarcasm intended).
  You despised religion LONG before I came here to HP.
  If you want, you have my permission to use my name when you stand before Him. Tell Him, "it was that religionist, hypocrite, lieing warmonger and slave trader, homophobe, aka-dj that turned me from believing in you."
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude - Sorry it offends you that I refuse to believe the judgmental hatred you spread. Not seeing any difference between the hatred you spread and the hatred religionists throughout history have spread. Oh - that is right. You don't get yours from a book - it is a personal relationship.
  
  Odd that you quote the book. Very odd. Couldn't god tell you into your head?
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i thought you were banned from religious forums,,,,,, yet here you are again upsetting everyone
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought it was CIAO?
  One day, you just might stop long enough to hear somebody else besides yourself?
  When it comes to my beliefs, you sir are CLUELESS.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
God is a word that may denote many things to many people. I believe whatever it is I believe but so far as general understanding of the word god, the god of religions, it is a farce. There is something bigger than the individual. Something like Ginsbergs universal mind? Not even that. The irrelevance of the word fails to give much meaning to any interpretation but the one of a montheistic, political based god. That god is a myth and thus god is a myth. In applicable terms, the existence of god is very real but as a creature of habit. A creature that really does live but only in the mind and is by no means benevolent and quite the opposite, more so a demon than a benevolent creator.
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
aka-dj - I mentioned a while ago that while no-one can prove non-existence of an undefined God, the minute you start to define God you set up something that possibly can be shown not to exist.
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I could fan you twice, Para, I would.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you have read enough of my comments etc to know "which God" I speak of. I certainly make no apology for that.
  I do NOT have to prove His existence. If that kind of proof were essential for man(kind) to connect with Him.He would have provided it. As it is, he said "I will make the wisdom of men foolishness", and "the wisdom of God, is foolishness to men". So, I am fully aware of the difficulties we all face.
  It is difficult for "educated, wise, intellectual, rational, logical...." men (or women) to be "as little children".
  That's evidently clear on these here HP's
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whether or not man can or cannot connect with "God" is not the point of this argument. We should restrict it to the subject of proof.
  
  Please respond to the above statements.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's not only difficult, it's undesirable. If we all became 'as little children', who would be left to take care of the real little children?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure what to make of this comment. If you are making a joke, I get it.
  If you are serious, I am surprised (perhaps shocked), because it's unlike you.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was both. A serious point stated in jocular fashion. Why do you think becoming 'as little children' is a good idea?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't my idea. Never gave it too much thought. I think the innocence of children teaches us volumes of how much we loose when we "grow up".
  They have no problem believing.
  YE YE YE, I know how everyone feels about a statement like that!!
  But research has (pretty much conclusively) showed us that if you constantly criticize children with negative words, they turn out "wounded" adults. If you speak positive encouraging words, they turn out healthier adults.
  What makes it so? They grow up believing about themselves, what they had spoken over them.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
I had a cigarette and now I am refreshed to probe further,

How about you explain this one,

"To me, a real practicing christian, is one who loves God, and lives to please Him, even when no-one sees, or knows. It's being true to Him, and yourself, all the time. Anything else is called hypocrisy." aka-dj
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen.
  However, that does NOT equate to PERFECTION.
  None of us is/are perfect. It requires God's grace to apply the "atonement" in Jesus Christ, to make us worthy (not perfect).
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
church noun (ORGANIZATION)
/tʃɜːtʃ//tʃɝːtʃ/ n
• [C or U] an official Christian religious organization
All the local churches were represented at the memorial service.
He went on a walking trip with some of his friends from church.

Source: Cambridge dictionary What is Church?
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advisor4qbposted 14 years ago
It's funny that I used to want to have someone prove to me that he did exist. Now no one can prove to me he doesn't.

I have lived through some hairy situations that only a higher power could have ever pulled me through.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure He did pull you through. The evidence spoken of here is not "experiential". That's too subjective, and irrational.
  I would strongly suggest you keep on the course you are on, and not be put off with what goes on here for any clues.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
aka-dj says, "Religion is not only corrupt, but also bankrupt (not financially speaking)."

What is religion?

"the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship," Cambridge.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Still puzzled?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  right... its come to this. I am not puzzled, I am convinced. So are you by the look of it. Done deal. Happy times.
  
  Good luck.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
fact noun
/fækt/ n [C or U]
something which is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information

the truth
[S] the real facts about a situation, event or person

delusion noun
/dɪˈluː.ʒən/ n [C or U]
when someone believes something that is not true

Cambridge Dictionary.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus Christ. Existed or not?
  Fact, truth or delusion?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Put a tick in the win box ak, if that is your intention. Congratulations. I give up.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry to hear that. Just when we were making some progress too.
  I would rather converse with you than many of the hecklers that seem to clutter the threads. Enjoyed it (really).
  Maybe another time.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We made no progress.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
off to the hills?
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Pr0metheusposted 14 years ago
Hah, and as I typed the above this page loaded (my internet is slow as hell here):

http://www.strongatheism.net/library/debates/greve_01/

"My last line of evidence will be to examine one specific attribute of God, assuming that he is definable, and that his attributes are not self-contradictory. This attribute, I propose, is contradictory with the facts of reality, and thus disproves God’s existence. That attribute is omni-benevolence: the quality of being all-good. As the ancient riddle of Epicurus says:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The first sentence here starts with an ASSUMPTION. Is god definable?
  That depends on what parameters you use to (try) and define him.
  
  Anyway, the following four options are incomplete.
  The Gospel declares that God Is Good, willing and able to deal with evil. He HAS (could I make it bolder or bigger?) dealt with evil. However, the results of that "dealing" is not as YOU or anyone else WOULD (perhaps) want it to.
  Without going into the full implications of it here, there are mountains of books, articles sermons etc on the Gospel.
  Yes, evil does still exist, but it has been defeated.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, what you are saying is - GOD cannot be defined, except you have just defined it; evil is defeated; it just looks as though it hasn't been, but we are too small to understand; god is good, willing and able to deal with evil, but we would never be able to understand without reading your religious books, and you just believe in something that does not exist because it gives you authority to cast judgments over other people without having any actual authority and you get to do the holier than thou thing that you really hate about religion but is OK that you do because you have a personal relationship with the non existent being that has been proven not to exist.
  
  That about right?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I must have hit that hot button again. You are ranting now.
  Slow down, take a deep breath, and star again.
  You reject the Gospel, which is what I was referring to, so, this was not written to you, but pronotheus. So what's you involvement anyway.?
  
  As for your constant "holier than thou" crap shows me you HAVE NO IDEA about my faith. NONE. All you know is the religious junk that was shoved down your throat as a child, and now every one els has to have your disdain shoved down their throat.
  
  I make general statements, comments and posts, but you are the one who makes them "PERSONAL". I guess that explains why you upset so many people.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Sorry you are unable to understand that when you go around telling people what god thinks about homosexuals/sex before marriage/abortion/whatever - it sounds personal to the people listening.
  
  It is you being holier than thou and preaching.
  
  Pity you cannot see that.
  
  You are the problem. You do not understand why it is offensive that you do this.
  
  Ask god to explain it to you.
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't the bible/religion define god? I don't see how that's an assumption.
  
  Anyways, if god were all powerful he would be able to change the outcome of "dealing" with evil. Without going into the full implications, those mountains of books do not constitute proof; those books offer a weak counter for an infallible argument against the Judeo-Christian God's existence.
  
  Good Game.
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  P.S. Mark Knowles wasn't ranting, he was pointing out the obvious.
  
  P.P.S. The only reason people "run for the hills" is because we get so tired of explaining logic to people who can't (or maybe they just don't want) to learn it.
  
  P.P.P.S. Mark is right, by arguing this fervently and offending so many non believers, you are doing the work of Satan - according to Christian beliefs. You are pushing us further away from accepting Jesus as our savior. I've explained this to atomswifey many times, just to have her ignore my comments for those that are easier to respond to. I won't be offended if you do the same.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let me clear something up here.
  I NEVER came here, to the forums to engage in aggressive, obnoxious behavior. I am able to carry a decent conversation with anyone who keeps polite.
  The likes of MK, come in like a wounded bull creating havoc.
  He has called me names (as you may note in my last response to him), all assumptive preconceptive trash.
  Not once does he ask me appropriate questions, and wait for answers. There is never an attempt to try and understand the "other point of view".
  Sadly, many follow his lead, and the result is as you see it.
  
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are not only engaging in but initiating most of the aggressive, obnoxious behavior. Let me give you an example, when I explained my opinions in a logical manner and evidenced (as you continued to request) with multiple links, you only ever ignored me or posed more questions - because you have preconceived ideas and are not willing to consider those ideas as anything but the absolute truth. You manipulate the bible to your whims and contradict yourself repeatedly. The way you have treated people here is not respectful. You have accepted no responsibility and you charge others with disrespect. Of course people will get angered eventually if they are treated with upmost contempt. Even when others have politely excused themselves from the discussion, you mock that. Where does the joke end? Where is the punchline?
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen... (and lol at the irony of saying amen here)
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terrowhiteposted 14 years ago
I do not need any explanation to prove that god does exist or not. I believe in the eternity and the existence of the god. it does exist for me, I have seen him.. It's faith for me.. that gives me power to move forward..
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good. Why did you feel the need to tell us?
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
scientist are having to hold their hands up in the air and say it was written in the bible all along, if we would just have read that book first..... honestly it is true
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What!?
  
  Do you honestly believe that?
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You go girl!!!
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
OH YES...... the bible has always said the earth is a sphere, but years and years of experimenting found it to be a circle, they used to think it was flat. should a read the bible
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
I spent way more time here than I intended to. Sorry, my stomach beckons, it's dinner time. Have "fun", y'all!!!
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  enjoy your dinner, and i am just reading the psalms does one good in this world of hatred, and argumentitive people dont you agree,
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Glad you're doing that, how is it going...
  
  This thread which is scientific the other day is now like a pure religion thread, a thread with lots of actions and arguments too hehehe.
  
  Okay, I'm just at the sideline watching how this thread progresses. Keep unleashing those bombs, and lets see, who wins when the smoke of battle died down...
  
  Good day guys...
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seasoningposted 14 years ago
science and the bible can work hand in hand, like drugs and alternate therapy.... after all god created all things even scientists, didn't he?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Science discovers gods laws.
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  Miss Takeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  perfect that is exactly right
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What laws? Please show which are the laws of god you are referring to.
  
  Are you referring to scientific laws? If so, this stuff is only the conceptual garbage invented by humans to describe what they PERCEIVE in reality. Whereas "God" is the conceptual garbage invented by humans to describe what they CONCEIVE in "their subjective reality".
  
  Scientific laws are "descriptive" and NOT "prescriptive" as you are trying to imply. There is nothing absolute in science. There are no absolute laws, equations, theories, etc. There is NO proof of anything in science. Everything in science is falsifiable. Whereas the bible and religious dogma isn't, because it is "prescribed" (forced down your throat) as absolute truth by faith alone - this is why it is called "absolute belief". Absolute truth is a "self-refuting" concept!
  
  And this "fine-tuning" of the universe crap you people talk about: god has knobs and buttons on his console and fine tunes gravity, light, matter, etc. to sustain life on earth.....
  Yet another example of human conceptual garbage leading people down the path of ignorance.
  
  Mother Nature and Father Universe don't know any of your laws or fine tuning you speak of. They only know what IS.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gravity , magnetism ,heat,refraction, fusion, fission etc etc for example.Mother nature is alive and very intelligent.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Gravity, magnetism, heat, light, fusion, atoms, etc. These are all concepts invented by human minds to describe what is perceived in science. Nobody can tell you what any of these things are in actuality. These concepts have no physical laws which control the universe in any way. Didn't you learn that in science class?
  The laws of science stemming from these concepts are used to describe what we perceive in empirical experiments. We don't know whether gravity always was like we perceive it today, or whether it evolved to what it is today. If you say you know, please prove it. This is why ALL these laws are falsifiable and replaceable by new ones. This is how science works. It's not a bible.
  
  Mother nature is not intelligent. Intelligence is a concept stemming from a mind. Mother nature just IS.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not talking about how gravity came into being but the fact that this force which is measured mathematically exists in our universe.
  Fusion and fission? no physical laws? do you really think bombs create no physical destruction,no energy .?
  
  I know mother nature, this entire cosmos is fully alive and intelligent,a far greater intelligence than man with his ego.This intelligence is mans inner or god intelligence.
  
  Gravity, fission and fusion have no effect on our planet and universe? thank god I didn't study in the school or college you did.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (the fact that this force which is measured mathematically exists in our universe.)
  Force is a concept of what we perceive. You cannot tell me what makes up this "force" in actuality. Mathematics is a concept invented by humans - not a physical thing. If you measure something, you have automatically created yet ANOTHER mental conception to fit YOUR view of that something.
  
  (Fusion and fission? no physical laws? do you really think bombs create no physical destruction,no energy )
  Sure they do. They are based on experimental observations. But you still don't how it works in actuality. The laws which humans use to DESCRIBE them are not anything which controls the universe. So why don't you tell us what an atom is and how fission works in the actual universe, not in the human mind.
  
  (I know mother nature)
  Then tell her I said HI. And please ask her to tell you what gravity is, then come and type it HERE please and enlighten us.
  
  (this entire cosmos is fully alive and intelligent,a far greater intelligence than man with his ego.This intelligence is mans inner or god intelligence.)
  First you are saying that cosmos is more intelligent than man. Then you are saying that man has the intelligence of god. What a loaded contradiction! It's obvious you don't understand what I am saying, but you don't even understand what YOU are saying.
  
  (Gravity, fission and fusion have no effect on our planet and universe?)
  I can see it went 50 miles over your head so I'll say it again: These are ALL concepts describing what we PERCEIVE. Again, please tell us what makes gravity work. Did it always work this way? Has it ever changed in any way? Will it ever change? You say you HAVE all the answers, but offer nothing but childish questions!
  
  I guess they didn't teach you the difference between objects and concepts in high school. No wonder you are confusing god with some object.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does the force of gravity exist or not? Does it effect physical objects, from small to big.Did man make this force or was it already in existence and man discovered it.? Is this so difficult for you to understand? or is it bouncing way over your head?
  
  Does fusion and fission exist naturally in this universe or has it come about because man invented or created it.?
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So you are answering my questions with your questions? What kind of childish silly talk is "does gravity affect physical objects"? You honestly think that I or anyone else don't know the answer to this childish question you pose? Or is this some type of misdirection tactic to avoid answering my question posed to you: Please "explain" what gravity is. Or please prove ONE law is absolute in the universe; always was, and always will be. Stop asking childish questions and act like the man in the picture.
  
  You say the universe is "controlled" by laws of science. You haven't a clue what science is. ALL laws of science are falsifiable, and NOT proven, and NOT absolute. They ONLY describe results from perceived data. If you disagree, then just please PROVE ONE LAW and end this discussion...PLEASE!
  
  Science is about explaining. The bomb-making is left to governments.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or please prove ONE law is absolute in the universe; always was, and always will be. Stop asking childish questions and act like the man in the picture
  Never said this.
  So you agree gravity does effect physical objects, so what are you unnecessarily arguing about? I am a science graduate.
  
  Its because of gravity that we humans live on this planet or else we would be shot out into outer space, believe me its is real force producing physical effects for a very , very long time.
  
  Or please prove ONE law is absolute in the universe; always was, and always will be.
  How ridiculous is this question.You want me to answer your question which no one has the answer for till now as no one knows when this universe started or may end.
  As good as asking me when did this universe start and when precisely will it end.Who is childish?
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (You want me to answer your question which no one has the answer for till know as no one knows when this universe started or may end)
  
  Thank you! It was like pulling teeth, but you finally answered my question. Of course we don't know! If these things were proven and absolute, then they would be indicative of actuality, and NOT our reality of perception.
  
  This is why as a science graduate, you of all people should know that NOTHING is ever proven in science. Our reality is what it IS, and we formulate LAWS to DESCRIBE it, and THEORIES to EXPLAIN it. Science does nothing to prescribe.
  
  Gravity is what it IS. The Laws of gravity describe it. The Theory of gravitation explains it. If we don't like the explanation we can throw out the theory, but not the gravity.
  
  Evolution is what is IS. The theory of evolution explains it. If we don't like the explanation we can throw out the theory, but not the evolution.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does gravity exist now? Is this force active in our lives and in this universe? Did man create gravity or did we discover this force and laws?
  Was refraction and reflection of light made by man or was it discovered by man .?
  Did man create fusion or fission or were they discovered by man.? etc etc
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please define the word 'exist' unambiguously, then we can have a meaningful exchange about 'gravity exists' or even 'god exists' for that matter. This is what science is all about. I shouldn't have to tell that to a science graduate.
  
  Gravity or god doesn't necessarily exist or not by what I or you say. They exist in accordance with the definition of 'exist'. That's what science IS.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exist
  ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
  1. To have actual being; be real.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  have - pick one!
  
  1.
  a. To be in possession of: already had a car.
  b. To possess as a characteristic, quality, or function: has a beard; had a great deal of energy.
  c. To possess or contain as a constituent part: a car that has air bags.
  2. To occupy a particular relation to: had many disciples.
  3. To possess knowledge of or facility in: has very little Spanish.
  4. To hold in the mind; entertain: had doubts about their loyalty.
  5. To use or exhibit in action: have compassion.
  6.
  a. To come into possession of; acquire: Not one copy of the book was to be had in the entire town.
  b. To receive; get: I had a letter from my cousin.
  c. To accept; take: I'll have the peas instead of the spinach.
  7.
  a. To suffer from: have defective vision.
  b. To be subject to the experience of: had a difficult time last winter.
  8.
  a. To cause to do something, as by persuasion or compulsion: had my assistant run the errand.
  b. To cause to be in a specified place or state: had the guests in the dining room; had everyone fascinated.
  9. To permit; allow: I won't have that kind of behavior in my house.
  10. To carry on, perform, or execute: have an argument.
  11.
  a. To place at a disadvantage: Your opponent in the debate had you on every issue.
  b. Informal To get the better of, especially by trickery or deception: They realized too late that they'd been had by a swindler.
  c. Informal To influence by dishonest means; bribe: an incorruptible official who could not be had.
  12.
  a. To procreate (offspring): wanted to have a child.
  b. To give birth to; bear: She's going to have a baby.
  13. To partake of: have lunch.
  14. To be obliged to; must: We simply have to get there on time.
  15. To engage in sexual intercourse with.
  
  actual - pick one!
  1. Existing and not merely potential or possible. See Synonyms at real1.
  2. Being, existing, or acting at the present moment; current.
  3. Based on fact
  
  being - pick one!
  
  a. Something, such as an object, an idea, or a symbol, that exists, is thought to exist, or is represented as existing.
  b. The totality of all things that exist.
  3.
  a. A person: "The artist after all is a solitary being" (Virginia Woolf).
  b. All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence.
  c. One's basic or essential nature; personality
  
  When you are done, show me what you mean by 'exist'.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Already have posted it..
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your dictionary has multiple definitions of your definition. Pick the one you like best, then we can talk.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  fatfist I have posted it please look at the beginning of this discussion.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  mohi, look at the definition you gave me above. Open your eyes. The dictionary you referenced resolves it to: 24 x 3 x 5 = 360 definitions.
  Either pick one or provide your own. In science the word 'real' is a synonym for exist. Define the word that will make or break your argument. Stop acting like a child by making 'loopholes' in your discussions.
  
  This is what happens when non-scientists resort to the religion known as 'dictionary scientism'. It's a clear indicator they haven't a clue about science. Theists do this ALL the time around here.
  
  In science we define words before we use them in a sentence. There is no provision for 'faith' or 'knowledge' in the scientific definition of exist. If you believe in god, does he exist? If you stop believing in god, does he stop existing? People believe and stop believing all the time. What happens to god in each case?
  
  If you are going to tell a SCIENCE audience that:
  
  - gravity exists
  - an atom exists
  - fission exists
  - a rock exists
  - god exists
  - Jesus exists
  - rain exists
  - love exists
  - absolute truth exists
  
  Then you have 2 options:
  
  1) Define exist CONSISTENTLY. Science doesn't deal in loose terms like god does with loose women. Science is a study that is objective and rational. Please define 'exist' in a RATIONAL manner so that it applies to ALL those items above which YOU say exist!
  
  2) Be prepared to be slapped with a straight-jacket and shipped to an insane asylum.
  
  If you don't want to go down the path of science, then you have 3 other choices:
  
  1) Define 'exist' in logic. Then use a logic argument to show how the above items exist.
  2) Define 'exist' philosophically. Then use a philosophical argument to show how the above items exist.
  3) Define 'exist' religiously. Then use a religious argument to show how the above items exist.
  
  Honestly, your childish games are getting old. If you are a 'scientist' like you claim you are, why are you avoiding this crucial issue? You asked ME a question that used the word 'exist' in your sentence. PLEASE DEFINE IT CONSISTENTLY!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Um, you are arguing with a self-proclaimed chosen prophet. I don't think you are going to win.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the comment marine. I'm not trying to win anything. He claimed to be a scientist who studied at some great school. I was hoping that maybe he could open at least ONE eye and see what science is all about. Yeah, I know. It's hopeless!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol has he started with his book promotions yet? He understands the prophets very well. He tends to get angry also when you point out his flaws. I thought prophets were supposed to be nice and humble.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's the point. Prophets and God KNOW everything. I was hoping they would at least help him out with the word 'exist', and just put an end to this discussion. Then I can say that I learned a thing or two from a theist.
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  yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're asking the wrong questions ... The right one is ...
  
  If God hates evil and is all powerful ... and the devil causes evil ... then why hasn't God done away with the devil?
  
  Now, I can tell you the reply ... The Devil was an angel capable of free thought that chose to defy God. Thus, he went on to become the tempter of man and God tolerates his existence.
  
  Explanation accepted.
  
  So ... when God flooded the Earth and killed all of the wicked people, why didn't he kill the Devil then? For that matter, why did he bring on the flood when he is tolerant of Lucifer's defiance?
  
  Does Lucifer's existence imply that God isn't all powerful?
  
  This is a paradox that either makes the Bible references of God out to be wrong or proves that God doesn't truly exist.
  
  What's the exit out of the rabbit hole? Admitting that God cares less of our existence and more about nature itself.
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  cbfglassposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THERE IS ONLY ONE THING YOU SHOULD FEAR MORE THAN
  G O D HIM/HERSELF AND THAT IS THERE WORDS
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? What in the world makes you say that?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haven't even bothered reading your entire post.Posting once again.
  
  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exist
  ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
  1. To have actual being; be real.
  
  Now these real forces are being discovered or uncovered by man, he is not creating them ,these universal laws exist.I can also be rude, don't want to go there, lets just stick to the topic.
  I am talking about now and not a hundred million years or god knows back and neither the future, now.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Haven't even bothered reading your entire post.)
  Yeah, I know you haven’t - reality hurts, doesn’t it? Boy, what a tangled mess you've gotten yourself into! God & prophecy won't help you here.
  
  Thank you once again for showing us you haven’t a clue what science is. No wonder you think that “gravity” is a “person”. You say that science is about words that have NO meaning. You say that science is about invoking supernatural agents – Jesus, angels, God, absolute truth, devil, Prophet Mohi, etc. All this irrational nonsense you propose is known as religion. This is not because I say so. It's so because reification (which is what you do) is a sleight of hand of religion, not of science. In Science, we are not allowed to reify concepts.
  
  So here is where we are on the status quo with mohi:
  
  1. He has been unable to define the word ‘exist’ that applies to gravity, rocks, god, atoms, fission, etc. despite that he claims he’s a scientist.
  2. As a result, he preaches that gravity exists likes beings: people, animals. He treats gravity like a baseball bat, using 'it' to accelerate objects like people, and concepts like love, god, and demons. He does the same with energy, mass, and fission. He thinks that these are nouns for the purposes of Physics solely because they represent nouns for the purposes of “his” ordinary heart-felt speech.
  3. Mohi would rather insist that the word ‘exist’ cannot be defined, OR, that it should be defined “via heart-felt emotions” (i.e., god, love, Jesus) rather than admit that his heart-felt emotions are only concepts. How is his posture different than the extremist fundamentalist who wants to save God at all costs and invents all sorts of excuses to justify 'Him'?
  
  Mohi has to specify exactly what he means when he gives a scientific presentation. No euphemisms or figures of speech are allowed when understanding is at stake. You don't like scientific definitions for the word ‘exist’ because they DESTROY your religion, mohi. There is no other reason for you to fall back on your wishy washy notions. You have nothing to stand on.
  
  Mother Nature must be going nuts trying to understand all the idiotic concepts that the idiots of religion have conjured (creation, God, heaven, soul, devil). She must truly wonder whether her favorite religious creature is actually any more intelligent than a snail.
  
  In religion, there are no concrete definitions for anything. Theologians can arbitrarily define ‘exist’ to mean: “will rub your tush to sweeten your heart”. And they would still be praised by their idiotic followers when saying that: “God exists” = “God will rub your tush to sweeten you heart!”
  
  Just like I told Daddy’s Princess who was fatally attracted to me in the other forum; and even her idiotic Jealous Boyfriend who came in to collect what was left of her: “Put your money where your mouth is, show us this absolute truth you speak of!”
  
  We have seen that theists will NEVER agree with the rigorous definitions that are objectively required by science in order to have a rational and meaningful exchange. Theists also REFUSE to provide their own unambiguous definitions. Theists would rather stick with the “conceptual” heart-felt definitions of ordinary speech, which allows them to REIFY ambiguous terms into objects: God, Jesus, spirit, devil, evil, infinite entity, incorporeal mind, unlimited energy, love, absolute truth, creator, Prophet Mohitmisra, etc.
  
  That's where we are. The ball is in the court of the theist. If the theist wants to bring 'it' into Physics, then he can't do it thru a show of hands or any heart-felt support from other fellow theists. It’s not about rubbing tushes anymore!
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/exist
  ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
  1. To have actual being; be real.
  
  Now these real forces are being discovered or uncovered by man, he is not creating them ,these universal laws exist.I can also be rude, don't want to go there, lets just stick to the topic.
  I am talking about now and not a hundred million years or god knows back and neither the future, now.
  Try answering in a few lines as I find your Writing boring and don't read your entire post.Haven't read this one as well.
  
  Synonyms: discover[b/], ascertain, determine, learn
  These verbs mean [b]to gain knowledge or awareness of something not known before: discovered a star in a distant galaxy; ascertaining the facts; tried to determine the origins of the problem; learned the sad news from the radio.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Haven't read this one as well.)
  
  LOL! The self-proclaimed Prophet and self-proclaimed Scientist can't even follow a discussion that is more than 2 sentences long - priceless!
  
  No wonder you think that gravity is a living "being". Boy, what a tangled mess you've gotten yourself into! God & prophecy won't help you here.
  
  Thank you once again for showing us you haven’t any brain cells. No wonder you think that “gravity” is a “living person”. You say that science is about ambiguity. You say that science is about invoking supernatural agents – Jesus, angels, God, absolute truth, devil, Prophet Mohi, etc. All this irrational nonsense you propose is known as religion. This is not because I say so. It's so because reification (which is what you do) is a sleight of hand of religion, not of science. In Science, we are not allowed to reify concepts.
  
  So here is where we are on the status quo with mohi:
  
  1) He has been unable to define the word ‘exist’ that applies to gravity, rocks, god, atoms, fission, etc. despite that he claims he’s a scientist.
  
  2) As a result, he preaches that gravity exists likes living beings: people, animals, insects. He treats gravity like a baseball bat, using 'it' to accelerate objects like people, and concepts like love, god, and demons. He does the same with energy, mass, and fission. He thinks that these are nouns for the purposes of Physics solely because they represent nouns for the purposes of “his” ordinary heart-felt speech.
  
  3) Mohi would rather insist that the word ‘exist’ cannot be defined, OR, that it should be defined “via heart-felt emotions” (i.e., god, love, Jesus) rather than admit that his heart-felt emotions are only concepts. How is his posture different than the extremist fundamentalist who wants to save God at all costs and invents all sorts of excuses to justify 'Him'?
  
  Mohi has to specify exactly what he means when he gives a scientific presentation. No euphemisms or figures of speech are allowed when understanding is at stake. You don't like scientific definitions for the word ‘exist’ because they DESTROY your religion, mohi. There is no other reason for you to fall back on your wishy washy notions. You have nothing to stand on.
  
  Mother Nature must be going nuts trying to understand all the idiotic concepts that the idiots of religion have conjured (creation, God, heaven, soul, devil). She must truly wonder whether her favorite religious creature is actually any more intelligent than a snail.
  
  In religion, there are no concrete definitions for anything. Theologians can arbitrarily define ‘exist’ to mean: “will rub your tush to sweeten your heart”. And they would still be praised by their idiotic followers when saying that: “God exists” = “God will rub your tush to sweeten you heart!”
  
  Just like I told Daddy’s Princess who was fatally attracted to me in the other forum; and even her idiotic Jealous Boyfriend who came in to collect what was left of her: “Put your money where your mouth is, show us this absolute truth you speak of!”
  
  We have seen that theists will NEVER agree with the rigorous definitions that are objectively required by science in order to have a rational and meaningful exchange. Theists also REFUSE to provide their own unambiguous definitions. Theists would rather stick with the “conceptual” heart-felt definitions of ordinary speech, which allows them to REIFY ambiguous terms into objects: God, Jesus, spirit, devil, evil, infinite entity, incorporeal mind, unlimited energy, love, absolute truth, creator, Prophet Mohitmisra, etc.
  
  That's where we are. The ball is in the court of the theist. If the theist wants to bring 'it' into Physics, then he can't do it thru a show of hands or any heart-felt support from other fellow theists. It’s not about rubbing tushes anymore!
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  Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Trash.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Another disgruntled theist who has nothing to offer in a discussion...yawn.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They never do. All they ever really say is "Please believe what I believe. Pleeze." and if they are that way inclined will add, "Or god will get you."
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've been threatened with all the evils the Bible can dish out, Mark. There is obviously something wrong with me cause I can't see any of these 'invisible' dangers that are attacking me, nor am I being affected by them
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To be fair - gone are the days of being turned into a pillar of salt or whatever.
  
  No - your punishment will be after you die.
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  fatfistposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh darn, there is always an "inescapable clause". I better hit the Bible with that list of cherry-picked versus I was given by another hubber.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So much of it I refuse to even read it.My name is not Mohi but Mohit meaning one who has gained knowledge of the spirit or the enlightened one or awakened one,a knower of god.
  Have posted the meaning of exist and discover .
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C.V.Rajanposted 14 years ago
A scientist says he has seen the atom. He explains the procedures, methodologies and equipment to understand the presence of an atom in a material.

Any other scientist who can replicate everything the former did and said, too can grasp the existence of atom in a material.

All others (non-scientists) BELIEVE what those two persons say; and believe that existence of atom has been proved, though they have neither seen it nor have the wherewithal to see it. So existence of atom is a belief for one because someone else has proved it and one trusts the scientist.

Likewise, a spiritual master, through his spiritual experiments and experiences realizes God. Any other honest seeker,who can replicate everything the former did and said, too can grasp the existence of God. He says he is convinced and as he too has seen God, it's proved.

All others (spiritually less inclined to undertake the sage's prescriptions)BELIEVE what those two persons say; and believe that existence of God has been proved, though they have neither seen God nor have the wherewithal to see Him. So existence of God is a belief for one because someone else has proved it and one trusts the saint.

If the atom's existence is proved, God's existence is also proved.

CVR
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  Miss Takeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  three cheers for you too, you just said what i wanted to say but had not a clue how to express myself,,,,,, god is love
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the difference is scientists rely on actual facts that can be replicated, faith relies on feelings that you made and convinced yourself for believing on something with all your heart even without any real explanation and any real hard evidence. faith can be passed on without any hard evidence because all it is is just to believe, just thoughts that can be made up by anyone with an imagination, you can't pass on science just by believing in it, we see science everyday from the light bulbs and the computers you are using in front of you right now, faith only tells of things not prove things, researching through your thoughts alone and thinking that he is real because you feel something is not proof, anyone can feel anything if you believe in it enough. if scientists had faith in god there would be more deaths in this world today from diseases that faith can't heal. the ability and capability of the human race is being brought down and stepped on by putting faith 1st thus slows down the advancement process=)
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense.
  
  Are you genuinely unable to understand the difference between an electron microscope and some one's imagination?
  
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
you can teach someone the inner workings of a light bulb and teach someone how to make it and the same result will happen over and over, a light bulb will be created. you teach someone about faith and god and you will get different results because there is no real hard evidence that can be passed on, people will interpret the teachings differently because there is no hard eveidence to be followed, the only thing it has are words from people and feelings that you can't pass on that can be manipulated by anyone, you can't manipulate the working of a light bulb because it's a hard evidence. if you tell me that a light bulb has light in it because there is a firefly inside of it would be laughable because you "know" that is not how it works=)
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i like this explanation....... interesting, so you do believe in god also
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i don't believe, but i have an idea, is it not true that if you believe in something you will do anything to defend it even ignoring facts and evidence that's thrown in your face and make your own stuff up just to prove a point? you can't convince anyone here that has a child that their child is not the cutest baby on the planet because that is what they believe even if they know it's not true so they will find ways to explain how their child is the cutest in the world=) I like to keep my myself open to other possibilities but not corrput my trail of thought at the same time=)
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i know what you mean it can be so easy to be closed minded. i suppose the fact that i always will believe, means that i don't accept some peoples reasoning on things but i love to listen to other peoples points of view;
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the fact that you love to listen to other people's point of view and not judge anyone for their beliefs unless you are manipulated to attack makes you one step ahead of everyone=)
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unless their view point is anti religion.
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark i wont argue with you, i accept your views, even though i may not agree, i certainly don't push any of my views on you now do i ,,,,
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
amen to all of this it is interesting reading to be sure
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
little ole me ahead of everyone i really don't think so....... maybe i dont think everyone has to agree for sure. we can disagree without being disagreeable surely
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So I am not the problem then?
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/christians-on-hubpages
  
  Why is it you guys pretend to be tolerant when you are not? Here you are claiming to want to agree without being disagreeable - yet you stop by my hub - which you clearly did not read - to tell me I am the problem.
  
  And this is the issue with your religion - sorry.
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark i have read your hub before, i am an individual, i choose to belong to a religion, but i have thoughts of my own, nothing positive is ever said from you in these forums, i think you just like to upset people once in a while..... away from your behavior toward religious people i am truly a fan of yours. Everything you say you have said before, it's just attacking why
  
  when i said you were the problem, I meant you were the reason you got banned not anyone else, are you not banned any more then
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think your religion is a bad thing. It is hurtful, damaging and holds us back as a species.
  
  Now - that is my opinion. You are claiming to want to disagree without being disagreeable yet are defending your religion and then attacking me and my opinion.
  
  This is called lying and is the basis of your religion. you are not tolerant of other opinions - if they are anti religion.
  
  I do not believe you have read my hub. I only wrote it the other day and it is over 6000 words long. You read the title and attacked me - not the content of my hub.
  
  And I was not banned from the religion forum. This is the problem with blindly believing whatever happens to fit your preconceived notions without doing any investigation.
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  matt6v33posted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  give me a shout when it is done....... my opinion is man wrote the bible inspired of god
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is done - you left a comment on it. And yes - I know what your opinion is. Feel free to address any of the points I made in my hub instead of just telling me I am the problem.
  
  God does not exist, therefore man wrote the bible. Period.
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  poetlorraineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are the problem why you got banned,i will correct my words on that hub if it upsets you....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I spent the opening 25 words on a 3 day forum ban and 6000 words on the subject - and that is what you responded to?
  
  Please.
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samsbrposted 14 years ago
This is not twist..its true word that God not exist itys not need be prove becoz of we people never seen no body in this world...mankind are God their good things are god and their bad things are ghost...i feel that
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
Mark honestly i did read it, lots of it you have said before, i know the way you feel and think as i have read you a lot. I was born into my religion, my parents converted and i have stayed with it because i believe it. I do not force on anyone, and have never done so, i would not attack your religion or your lack of religion, i am here as an individual person not a representative of any religion.

You blame the women who talked religion for your ban, and i am saying you did not need to keep on at them and get personal, and get banned........ i hope you understand. Most people do not like the religion i belong to how hard do you think that has been for me all my life..... do you think it is easy for me, when my personality is such that i like to get on with everyone including you.... have you ever read any of my hubs. i am an amateur in comparison to you, i think you would probably feel they are a waste of time. However i have read a lot of yours, you are a great writer, i wish i had your talent, peace my friend
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poetlorraineposted 14 years ago
you do yourself no favours, on the forums at all, and why i even try to discuss anything with you i do not know. However i do apologise for offending you, i have written it at the bottom of your hub.... you have quite a following, but unfortunately you are not god, do not have his power...... but a writer wow you certainly are, well done.....
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GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years ago
@Mark Knowles --- stay cool my good ole Buddy as I told you before a lot of Hubbers and newbies love your works, newbies or not, give them sense of respect I call this humility... this is just a suggestion though...
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femguy14posted 14 years ago
If it is evidence that needs to analyzed then we may only look into the lives of the saints. The lives of the saints express solid proof that there is supernatural world and that there is a higher being the controls it. One saint and i apologies but his name is escaping my mind at the moment prayed to God before this horrific volcanic magma was going to bestroy this village untill this saint voiced the words Amen Amen Amen and did the sign of the cross three times toward the volcano and all the magma spread around the villages curcumference. Another piece of evedence that proves of the exsitence of God is that of mother teresa she. One eyewitness was walking with her note that mother teresa was quite old at this time, the eyewitness noticed that her pace quikened to an asonishing rate a rate then even the best walkers would not be able to accelerate to. Many of the saints were noted to levetate to incredible heights in places that any sort of contraptment would be impossible to rige. I bring these spiritual events because it seems that without the help of some divine or some supernaual power human would have find it impossible to accomplish these feats.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That was Zola Budd in disguise.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The only thing wrong with saying science does not know, is that it, unlike religion is willing to find out.
Knowledge grows, is tested and fails, new ideas replace them that do work across all the scientific disciplines.
Religion takes an old book written by a bunch of psycopaths, then never learns anything new, as it is already "right" about it all.
Laughable comparison!
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Earnesthub, how are you doing? I have argued too much with you ,Mark and Paraglider and finally made peace ,don't want to argue any more with you guys.
  
  Forget the Bible for a moment, I write as of today or now but the essence of god the Light is timeless.I agree that these books written a long time ago are very harsh at times and can put someone off, I hate being threatened and I understand how you guys feel.
  Language is a great barrier when trying to put god across .
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Mohit! The problem with forgetting the bible even for a minute is to deny the source of religion. Without the bible and quoran there is no other originating sources.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I prefer the Vedas, Zend Avista, Bhagwat Gita over the Bible and Quran as you will not find such threats .I think the language used doesn't do justice for our time is is too easy to misinterpret and difficult to read.I also find these threats in the Bible and Quran to be annoying and unnecessary.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Vedic scriptures, the Bhagavad Gita...
  
  Edit - Mohit already said that so I'd better say something else:
  
  There's a bright golden haze on the meadow...
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You aregue that language is a great barrier. I agree. Without explaining god with language, how could it be explained? There is no way, hence, the existence of god cannot be be proved. The non-existence of god has been proved. Conclusion, god does not exist. Your rules.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How is the non existence proved? How is there so much intelligence at work in this universe? Definitely not man made.There is certainly a higher intelligence than man doing all this.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not going to attempt to prove the non-existence of god. There are more than enough search engines and libraries you can visit. However, the belief in god is not an issue of proof. If you believe in god that is your choice. The belief in god is a leap of faith. It is entirely unrelated to proof. Obviously, you are set in your faith. I don't have the desire to change your faith. I am only saying that your faith is not an issue of faith. As human beings, our means of proof all boil down to language. There are no words that will help to prove the existence of god.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The very people who argue "there is NO (absolute) truth", are often the ones who make stupid statements like "There is no God".
  That sounds like an absolute statement to any sane person. Yes language is a problem, but we all understand the difference between an absolute, and relative. (don't we)
  IE, I cannot prove there IS NO GOD, therefore I cannot make the absolute definitive statement as above.
  If the existence cannot be proven, then why ask for it to BE proven? If it's by faith, then leave them alone who want to "believe".
  It's not rocket science, surely?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never asked anyone to prove the existence of god. Never, not once. I believe in god, do not group me with everyone else. God exists in MY MIND. I have a personal understanding of god. I am anti-religion. Religion is the work of evil.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was answering your comments, but I made them general, encompassing most people I have had "discussions" with.
  You, personally, I have NO problem with. So far you have not conducted yourself that way.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Guess what. I do have a problem with you because you have abused more people on this forum than anyone else. Whether or not you have a problem with me personally, I couldn't care less. I do not need arrogant and ignorant friends, thank you.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry you feel abused. Truly, I am.
  I notice you didn't like me asking you questions though. You took offence.
  I try not to make assumptions, so I ask (specific) questions. Something most people don't reciprocate.
  If you want me to stop addressing you, I will.
  If, however I quote any of your posts, be it know to you, I will be making generalizations, not referring to you personally.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just had a little bit of spew come up. I am off to brush my teeth. Might reply a bit later.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you kept your belief in your head where it belonged - instead of telling us about "standards" and "fines for breaking rules that god gave us." you would be left alone with your beliefs.
  
  Sadly - you feel compelled to instruct others on the "standards" the bible sets for us.
  
  I don't care what you believe. Really. Genuinely. Could care less.
  
  Tell me about the standards god told you I need to follow and you instantly become that which you claim to abhor - yet another religionist.
  
  It is not rocket science - surely?
  
  Your god does not exist.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is public forum. I can express my opinions the same as anyone else here.
  Sound familiar?
  How many times have you written this???
  Oh, sorry. Your "standards" only apply to you.
  Maybe you should keep your opinions in your head. No?
  You do make me feel special though. Thanks for that!!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry dj - you asked a question and I answered it. I do not care one whit what you believe - until you start "expressing your opinion" and then telling me that these are rules from an invisible super being.
  
  Perhaps you should not have asked the question if you did not want an answer?
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have found my proof, I became the Light or god, each needs to find his or her own proof.Like the Buddha when asked for proof of his enlightenment said "nature is my witness."
  
  There are no words that will help to prove the existence of god- I agree with you, language is limited and is not proof that god exists .
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are entitled to your own opinion, nonetheless you have proven nothing...
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  cbfglassposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  THERE WAS AND IS MANY ORIGINATING SOURCES,YOU JUST
  ACCEPT TO SEE THINGS ONLY IN ONE DEMINSION.
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yoshi97posted 14 years ago
I believe in God, so I will not disprove what I believe in, as that is making a mockery of my own beliefs.

What I *do* question is *how active* God really is in our lives.

By that I mean ... does he exist just because we believe in him? Does he only serve those he feels like serving? Does he indiscriminately serve people out of a whim? or does he serve us all constantly?

For that matter ... can we say God serves us at all ... seems to be it should be the other way around.

If there was an argument against God that was scientific ... then it would be this:

Facts:

1. God wants us all to believe in him.
2. God is capable of anything.
3. There is nothing more powerful than God.

Therefore the following must be true:

1. Evil would not exist unless God chose for it to exist, as God (according to the facts of above) is capable of anything and nothing is more powerful than God

2. God does not want us all to believe in him or he would make a forceful presence to the non-believers that would force them to believe.

Now, I have heard the 'free will' argument given out for years, where God only wants our belief if we give it freely. I've given that some thought and came to the realization ... If God is okay with free will, then why does he demand our belief?

Of course, this makes my sound like an atheist ... which I am not. So, how can I be a Christian?

To understand, you must see God as I do ... as a force of nature that creates everything around us, as well as the immutable laws of the cosmos.

Regardless, I can't conceive of a physical God that can tangles web through every living and dead human being unable to prevent or eradicate evil. And I won't listen to the debate on Revelations ... If God is all powerful, why wait?

God, as written in the Bible, appears to be irrational. He destroys nearly all of mankind for sinning (the great flood) instead of removing the evil that tempts man to stray.

So ... evidence against God's existence:

He's all-powerful, and yet, refuses to vanquish evil when it is clearly written he will someday do so ... meaning he has the ability all along.

The hole in this theory:

Just because he is all-powerful doesn't mean he WANTS to destroy evil, and in fact, he might have invented evil as a means of tempting us to see if we are worthy of ascension.

Of course, this has big implications if this is the actual truth of things, as then God is playing both sides of the court.

Or ... to avoid the paradox, we can just say God created (and maintains) the universe and allows us to live as we chose, which removes God as a protector for all of us.

So, there's my proof against God's existence, which has a big hole as I have shown ...

So, to prove my theory wrong you need only prove one of the follwing:

1. God doesn't care to meddle in our lives and is only a God of creation

2. God created both good and evil and manages directly over evil to see if we can be tempted

3. God is not all-powerful, as he is incapable of removing all evil

Now, I didn't write that to offend anyone, but to make us all ponder something that religion continuously ignores ...

Why does an all-powerful God allow the Devil to exist. Either God is all-powerful, or he is not.

Going back to Genesis, if I were God I wouldn't have punished Adam and Eve, I would have removed the snake from the garden. Both Adam and Eve were innocent until the snake tempted them, which means the original sin was given to them by evil, and removing evil would have been a permanent solution.

For that matter ... how did the snake get there to begin with? Couldn't God keep the snake out?

Explain why evil exists in the presence of an all-powerful God and you will have explained away much doubt in many.
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  sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  or 'god' is the devil. Evil is all powerful, he will not destroy it, he gives you free will but demands you believe in him but knows in doing so he creates a notion of dictatorship. But we hate dictators because it goes against free will.
  
  -I mean nothing by this other than to point out that if you wanted to prove this biblical god existed you could do so very easily if you first determined what god is from what you want it to be.
  
  In short, replace all the assumptions about god with the devil and viola, the proof is in the pudding.
  
  Don't be mad at me for saying this though.
  
  I subscribe, however, to the notion of 'it' being undefinable, giving inner personal spirit or strength because if there really is a god... then the only one that exist is not the nice one but you could have faith in the one that does not yet exist by faith that in the same way 'evil' seems to rule the roost, good will rule it when that time comes around.
  
  Because from my pov, everything has it's opposite in this life which (imo) makes things absolute. There is proof of it in everything.
  
  So science can prove negatives all the time but when it comes to the 'good' god... well shall I say that 'evil' hasn't come to the end of the road yet.
  
  I don't believe that god interferes either way, doesn't make rules, did 'create evil with us' but a 'spirit' that longs for good which makes almost everything seem pretty bad.
  
  So, while I might get a mouth full from both sides. If 'god' does exist, the only one that rules is the 'devil' and what you have is faith in the good 'god' to come.
  
  But since I don't know what happens after death. It could be that when you die, good rules but we wont ever know it till we get there and I am not certain that you cannot 'will' your spirit alive after death in a different 'world' so to speak.
  
  And really, these days. I can't even tell you what is 'good' anymore. Too much 'preaching' and 'politics' and not enough 'self' because we are being 'dictated' around every corner.
  
  And yes, I actually do understand the irony of 'brainwashing' but no one can really get around it. Unless you find your 'roots' and step way back and depend on yourself, your feelings, your intuition, things of the spiritual nature.
  
  Everything you know or think you know is not 'your' own. And I don't believe anyone reads the Bible and says, yeah! I believe in the Devil but they always say I have faith in god.
  
  Think about the slip of the pen.
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
I have=)
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Here's the twist... How can you prove that God doesn't exist?

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Here's the twist... How can you prove that God doesn't exist?

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