As an atheist I don't believe...

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   sandra rinckposted 13 years ago

   That it is okay to hurt people, steal from people, make other accountable/responsible for the things I do.
   
   As an atheist, what do you live by?
   
   I believe that whatever rules I believe I should also follow.
   I believe in the obligation to benevolence NOT The Golden Rule.
   
   How'bout you?

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      exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      what is wrong with the golden rule?
      Do to others the way you want others to do to you

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         sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Because it implies that if a person believes that it is okay for someone to come and smack them around for being stupid, then they can also do that to someone else.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yea if I want a spanking I gotta give one first. 
              Never mind then  !!!.
            
               Every quarter that I have... has two sides.
            
              Tis the way of life.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Exorter this is not directed at you it was a quicker reference only.
         
         However, "What is wrong with the golden rule?" It's being applied to a flawed species.
         
         "Do to others the way you want others to do to you" - This implies civility and human beings so far are still young. Meaning, they are emotion driven and there is no place for emotion amongst civility.

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            exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I do my best to live by that rule, and there are others in this world that do also, I also try to turn the other cheek, if my family is attacked then the bible says that a man must take care of them. you are wright tho, about civility in this world, it is hard to find, but if you keep your eyes open, you will find it every now and then

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         mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
         
         Simply means, treat others like you want to be treated.
         
         Whichever belief system you embrace,  would this not be a good thing to do?

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      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sandra
      
      There is always something from every group, we ALL can learn from.
      The Golden rule is a good rule, as long as it’s not the one with the Gold, Rules. How would atheists imagine to rule, if they had most of the Gold?

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      ecogginsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You wrote:
      "I believe in the obligation to benevolence NOT The Golden Rule."
      
      I'm not sure I see the difference. There is no malevolence in the Golden Rule because the normal sane person would never want someone esle to harm them. So "do to others what you would have them do to you" means treat others the way you would want them to treat you which is with the best of intentions. You would want others to treat you with the best of intentions and that is how you should treat others. To intentionally harm another would completely violate this rule.

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         sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         But, as I posted previously.  The Golden Rule does imply that if you think it is okay for someone to lay a harmful hand on you because of something you feel needs a good butt kicking, then the same might also believe that they can do that to someone else.
         
         It's the 22 of the Golden Rule.  Fine line yes.

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            mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sandra. the "rule" you are referring to does not imply that at all. HOWEVER there is mention of a verse in Scripture that says something like an eye for an eye. Many also take this verse as is written.

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         china manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You should meet my ex-wife - she would convince you of the flaws in your argument.  I believe that I am doing the right thing in NOT doing to her what she does to others, especially me.
         
         Like all rules there is the exception, and it is the exceptions that make the rule more clear - would be true I guess.
         
         BUT - I think the issue is that thinking about anything we tend to stand it still, like a snapshot or a specimen, when mostly the meaning in things is in the movement itself - so I go for ETHICS, reasoned response to situation without a rule book except the opinions of those who have gone before.  It is not so much a matter of deciding right and wrong but how to.

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      Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'll say what I do believe in, not what I don't believe in.
      
      I believe in mutual respect - I treat others with respect and expect to be treated with respect.  If someone is disrespectful, I don't respect them.
      
      Respect covers a lot of things - that I don't cheat on my husband, that I stand up for myself, the type of relationship I seek with my son
      
      I believe in integrity - I am honest and hate hypocrisy (eg of office politics)

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         mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         bb     exactly. that is what the verse in which is implied is speaking of.

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            Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I think it does too, but I think it gets misinterpreted along with the turn the other cheek stuff.  The message I got from church was I was worthless and other people were allowed to walk all over me, and I wasn't allowed to stop it

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               mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               bb, I am so very sorry that you got that impression at your church.
               
               Your church home is a place where you SHOULD have the feeling of I belong, I am loved, wanted, needed, cherished.
               
               As a child of The Most High, let me assure you, you are all of the above and then some.
               
               I have been in churches where I get the feeling Im just not good enough. I do not go back. As of now, i do not attend any church. for much of the same reasons you speak of.
               
               Turn the other cheek, oh sister, it hurts when we grit them teeth, but it is for a good cause. But in doing so, we sow the seed of  forgiveness.

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      kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You know, atheist or not (depends on what day you talk to me in some cases, my beliefs are like the sky, always changing and always perfect, to me anyway)
      I believe that it wrong to lie, steal, commit murder or violent acts that could result in same, and anything else that makes you feel the need to lie or steal. (most of the rest of the stuff of the 10 commandments seem to make sense cause if you do them you wind up having to lie at the very least). Lies are a big old warning light, letting you know that you are not living your life in a harmonious and healthy way.
      
      Thing is, I don't like being lied to, or stolen from so cannot rationalise my doing something I would not want done to me.
      
      What causes me deep concern are those instances where by being truthful is likely to get ya in trouble, whenever the truth makes people uncomfortable they don't generally analyse why they are uncomfortable they just get mad at you for making them uncomfortable and wham your in trouble with them (sucks when they are your employers too). Once you justify one lie, how to justify all lies? You did it once and will surely learn to do it in any situation until you are a lier and suspect everyone else of being the same.

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   sandra rinckposted 13 years ago

   I also do not believe that it is okay to take things from the Earth and not put them back.
   
   I don't believe it is okay deny people an education.
   
   I don't believe it is okay to take away peoples rights.
   
   I don't believe it is okay to scare children into submission when they haven't yet comprehended the difference between real and unreal, right and wrong... left or right or spell for that matter actually.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think that you are right on !!!
      
        I don't believe in any of that either.
      
        I don't think that any one should cause any hardship upon another in any way.
         
        A lot of people do though, and didn't know they were hurting anyone. 
      
        All that anyone has gotta do is to look back at their past !
        We seem to see ourself more truthfully when we examine those things that lie in our wake.

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      exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have never heard of scaring  children, in sunday school you teach them of God's love, As a deacon I would remove a teacher that started telling the little ones about Hell
      Just like the Bible says you start out on milk before you are able to go to the meat

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         sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Right, so lie to them first and then then scare them?

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            exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If you have ever felt the power of God and seen it you would not call it a lie

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               sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah, I would call it a monster.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hmm, as a non a/thesist or theist, I am curious:
      
      I also do not believe that it is okay to take things from the Earth and not put them back.
      What things exactly? Since everything comes from the earth. Food, water, trees to build homes, etc. Can you put a tree back -as it was- before humans tore it down to build a home or "recycle it"?
      
      I don't believe it is okay deny people an education.
      It is the education of the mind -for both the a/theist and theist- that is destroying the planet and humans alike.
      
      I don't believe it is okay to take away peoples rights.
      How can one human give or take another humans rights, when those rights were designed and fashioned by a select group of humans to begin with?
      
      I don't believe it is okay to scare children into submission when they haven't yet comprehended the difference between real and unreal, right and wrong... left or right or spell for that matter actually.
      Yet, daily you submit to estranged ideologies and thoughts, that you force upon yourself and others as being true, valuable and good for the betterment of humanity. Causing others to submit or reject --be it child or elder-- to suit your personal necessity in the argument, authority or condition?
      
      Perhaps it is within you to understand: any human granted or withheld principle, is human and therefore useless and invaluable to Life. What both the theist and a/theist forget is that neither of you can do anything in and of yourselves purely. You may/may not assume properties, ideas, conditions, thesis, hypothesis, etc and even go so far as to inject -infect actually- those items into the minds, hearts and even bodies of other humans- yet all of them are diseases that will ultimately destroy all humans who allow themselves to be infected by them.

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         sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Derailing this one too I see.

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            Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Far from it, love. But nice evasive maneuvers.
            Advocate General? Hmm.
            
            You nor anyone can learn anything from another, to better humanity, since you are using humans methods to do so.
            You have succeeded in believing you can, but you have no real faith to see it through. You meaning the theist and a/theist! Instead, you'll pass this disease onto your children, blame your parents and grandparents until at some point the cycle ends...
            
            What a shame. What a waste.

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Okay, I'm not an atheist, but I'm going to post anyways.
   
   Hi Sandra, nice to see you again. Interesting thread you've started. Thank you for sharing.

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      sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I know Ray, no worries.  You can also list what you believe.   Your comments are always welcome.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you Sandra.
         
         However, as to my beliefs? Well, I don't hold many beliefs and the ones that I do have, um well...they are for me. I have no need to spread my beliefs. I spread things I know, learned and discerned from experience, as truth.
         
         People have been so badly beaten down with so much Sh!t and from all different angles, half of them don't know whether or not, they are coming or going.
         
         Beliefs are meaningless to others and should be held closely to oneself. Simply because, the way "beliefs" are created. I once started a thread asking people the difference between "knowing" and "believing", and I know it's still active, because I recently saw someone post to it.
         
         Since forming a "belief" is flawed by humans subjective view, unless tested for objectivity, its always going to be a problem.

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            schoolgirlforrealposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I feel the same way, Cagsil. I think you and I are both nice people but because of our "labels" people are harsh to us.
            And we also feel "compelled" to speak up occassionally but we can get caught up and attacked.
            Am I right?

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   wyanjenposted 13 years ago

   I believe in equal rights and equal opportunities.
   
   I believe that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that must be protected for all.
   
   
   Sheesh that sounded corny. But - that's my cornerstone.
   
   

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Jen, how are you today?

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         wyanjenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I'm just great. Been smilin' all day. How about you? It's been awhile since we had the time to chat

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I am doing well. I ran through Sunforged's 60 Day Challenge. I managed to publish 30 hubs in 30 days. I started working to make revenue from Amazon, through sports apparel by Alyssa Milano.
            
            *Sorry Sandra...I know..off topic.

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               wyanjenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yep - sorry Sandra
               
               30 hubs phew. Good for you
               I haven't published anything since June. Summer was crazy!

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               sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Alyssa Milano has sports apparel?!

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, a company called Touch. She designed womens fan apparel.

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   AKA Winstonposted 13 years ago

   I believe that....
   
   When you're down, and troubled, and you need a helping hand.  And nothing, whoa nothing is going right.  Just close your eyes and think of me, and soon I will be there to brighten up even your darkest night.
   
   Just call out my name, and you know wherever I am, I'll come running to see you again.  Winter, Spring, Summer, or Fall, all you've got to do is call, and I'll be there, yes I will, you've got a friend.

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      sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ...And I'll be there ya..aa.aa.aaa, *dun, dun* you gotta friend, aint it good to know you gotta friend...

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   Diane Insideposted 13 years ago

   In response the Sandra the OP, I am Christian, I believe everything you said. I also believe in an obligation to benevolence and living by the golden rule, which in my opinion is the same thing.
   
   So we are not so different.

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      sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nope, sometimes we aren't that different we just do things for different reasons. 

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         Diane Insideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What are the different reasons, I mean, cause you said obligation so you feel obliged to do good.  As we all do unless we are narcissistic.

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            sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't do it for show.

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               Diane Insideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So you think I do?

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                  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Not at all though I was concerned that you might take it that way. In fact, I do respect much of what you have posted so far.    That I have read of yours anyways.

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                     Diane Insideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay thanks for clearing that up, I did take it that way, just really wasn't sure how to take it to be honest.
                     
                     I realize that we do not agree on topics like religion, of course that is a given.  But when we boil it down to the salt, I think we will see that we are very similar, and just go about things in different ways to come to the same result. 
                     
                     And I also think that many people whether they or  atheist or theists, are the same way. We just get caught up in the technocalities of it.
                     
                     To be honest with you If I were in despair and needed a hand up I wouldn't care if the person who was helping me was and atheist or theist, but would feel very blessed that someone was willing to help at all. No matter what their motives.
                     
                     Anyhow  thanks, I just wanted you to understand that there are some of us who also feel the same way. Even though you may feel that some do not.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not to sound overly derogatory, but that only confirms my previous statement: both the believing and non lack true faith to see the truth from truths perspective, untouched, unbent, pure...
      
      The human condition continues: I think... therefore something I believe/think or don't believe/dismiss, must be true...
      
      But to this I agree, both the theist and a/theist are not so different, in fact, they are so closely identical, it is challenging to see the differences...

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      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Diane
      
      It’s amazing, human are 99 the same in biology.  We are all about 95% agreements in mind and 5% in disagreement.
      Man, that 5% is a bitch!

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         Diane Insideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         lol, Yes you are right, Castlepaloma, it sure is, isn't it.

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         Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         sure is

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   exorterposted 13 years ago

   I do not believe it is ok to rag some one because of
   race color creed or their belief, political or religious

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   evvy_09posted 13 years ago

   First I just have to say that I'm impressed at atheists and christians posting on a thread without really arguing.  I'm not trying to sound sarcastic.
   I'm not athiest either, but I generally just try to do right by people.  I'm real family oriented and will go to great lengths for the comfort and happiness of the people I've chosen as family.  I don't worry about the things I've done that might be wrong only what I'm doing now.  I also value honesty above politeness. I guess that's part of why not too many people like me but still trust me.

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   Pcunixposted 13 years ago

   I believe in moral relativism and that It is usually impossible to be certain of your decisions.
   
   I believe that I should keep trying to do the best I can even if it is true that I may never know what is truly best and even if reality is that none of it ever mattered anyway.

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    zzronposted 13 years ago

    I think one of the differences between atheists and Christians is that one of them believes in God and cares what God thinks, and the other one doesn't. This would indicate two completely different sets of beliefs and lifestyles for the two different individuals.

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