Is it right for a Christian based Soup kitchen to turn away atheist Volunteers?
In my area the local group of atheist had made over 300 bags for the homeless and wanted to volunteer at the local soup kitchen and pass out the bags while there. They made sure the director knew they would not tell anyone they were atheist or even mention it. The director said they were not welcome in the building. She refused to let them help or pass out the bags. Was this the right thing to do?
From my experience, I know that our atheist outreach group has worked with church groups in the past, but we tend to avoid them whenever possible because our group leaders (and I agree) did not believe that it was good to subject the people in need to a sermon prior to receiving a meal or a food package, and many of the religious groups in our area seem to hold sandwiches hostage for the price of evangelism. In the case of flooding, however, it is often easier for us to work with church groups so we're all focused on a single effort rather than multiple small groups scattered and duplicating work. I think it depends on the group, the methodology and other factors.
More specifically, however, if the goal is to feed the homeless, I don't think it's right to turn volunteers away just because they don't share your religious beliefs. When working on outreach or service, we're inclusive of everyone - regardless of their religion or lack thereof. I'm happy to work along side anyone, as long as the task gets done effectively.
J, I was so spitting mad when I read peeples's question that I could barely form a coherent response. Yours is absolutely beautiful and articulate and mirrors mine (had I calmed myself down before trying to answer).
The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked, but the prayer of the upright pleases him. When visitors to my table prepare for a meal, they are always subject to a prayer to God for his graciousness and mercy as we partake of what he has provided.
No, it was the wrong thing to do. Her thoughts should have been with helping those people first and instead they were on her own self-righteous ego. If she was truly being Christ like she would have accepted the kind gift from fellow citizens, but apparently her need to be better than someone trumped her compassion.
Or her fear of the attitude that might be taken by the Atheist group. I agree that the director was wrong. It sounds like a large group and it might depend on the size or number of volunteers they wanted to work with.
Fear leads to bad judgment. Most atheists are not the demons they are made out to be. If she'd have looked past her own bias, hungry people would have been fed. It was stated that the Atheists weren't planning on mentioning it.
Agree atheists r not demons but u have 2 admit that the 1s that announce thmslvs as atheists usually follow up by telling u what they r against instead of what they r 4. the last thing i want is some1 telling me how wrong my beliefs r just like u.
Actually that is not correct Mklow1 I make it a habit of not telling others what I believe unless asked. It's usually the religious that feel a need to "spread their beliefs". your assertions are inaccurate and offensive.
I said that I don't like people telling me my beliefs are wrong just like you. That means that neither of us like for someone to tell us our beliefs are wrong. If u find that offensive then maybe u r 2 sensitive 4 the internet.
you were the one generalizing "you have to admit that atheists". that would be like me saying you have to admit all people who say they are Christians are small minded and judgmental - except I don't generalize because it isn't fair or accurate.
You don't generalize??? You said this:" It's usually the religious that feel a need to "spread their beliefs".
You should read b4 you write
peeples, there is absolutely NO circumstance under which ANYONE, with a compassionate heart, offering assistance to the poor should be turned away. And, I bet she took those damn bags, didn't she? I wonder if she's polling the homeless who come to the soup kitchen for assistance and turning them away if she doesn't care for their responses. This is sickening to me.
How sad and very unfortunate. No, it was definitely NOT right, in any way shape or form. Period. This is certainly a perfect example of how some Christians are more worried about their egos than helping their fellow man. What a wonderful opportunity and experience for all of those involved had it been allowed. Imagine...everyone working in unison, in harmony, seeing a need and jumping in and helping their fellow man together...you don't get much more Christ-like than that. Shame on them.
I'm sure the needy could care less about philosophical or religious differences. And too often they are forced to proclaim acceptance of a faith before receiving help. It seems that for every two steps forward mankind takes, religion knocks us back one step. It's a shame that we are in the twenty-first century and still trying to come out of the Dark Ages.
Those who follow the Christian rule achieve many more than just 2 steps forward, and never get knocked back one step. The dark ages are continually fronted by those who deny Christ.
Wayne, it's never religion that knocks us back. Economics, government, military and more can knock us back. But the real culprit is ego -- the equal-opportunity destroyer.
Two steps back??? Think again. Universities, charities, hospitals are mostly built by religious groups.
Also, read this:
http://brainz.org/50-most-influential-c … -all-time/
That will make you think twice.
Wayne, you are just plain wrong on your initial assumption. Hang out with them in a park or next to a shelter or at a church food line. Many many many have deep religious feelings and faith. Almost to a one, they can talk politics and have opinions.
Well out of the ones here, 300 of them didn't care we were atheist giving out stuff they needed. So their faith was irreverent to the fact they have the same basic needs all humans do. If in need, I would feed my child with food from any religion.
Well peeples, I think this is a normal attitude. (I hope you meant irrelevant instead of irreverent)
And it is awesome to hand out one time deals on a corner. Was it raining or snowing? Did you do it 30 days in a row, or ten years?
Just when you think you've heard of the most IGNORANT thing, humans are capable of.......Turning down the help of kind & generous individuals or 'groups," is by far, the most unacceptable, unforgivable, ludicrous action, that can be taken by ANY other individual or group.
Feeding the hungry has nothing at all to do with one's beliefs or non-beliefs........oh wait, excuse me, I retract that. Feeding the hungry DOES have everything to do with one's BELIEFS in helping his less fortunate fellow man.
Let's hope to think that not ALL Christians or Churches would behave in this pompous, arrogant manner. "Stupidity" exists everywhere and should basically be ignored. This particular woman, who wears the label of "Christian," is as UN-Christ-like as "humanly" possible!!!!
As a Christian, I am taught to rebuke evil. This includes accepting false charity from those who wish to be recognized as good when they spread evil. No one goes hungry when Christians provide the table cause God always provides a way. Blessed be God
No. Just because someone is an atheist does not mean they do not have a good heart. This was completely the wrong thing to do. Their intentions were only good and did not intend to try and "convert" anyone. The director should be ashamed of herself. The only one's she was hurting were the needy.
The director should neither be ashamed or proud, the director followed the path of righteousness by rebuking evil. We cannot side with evil if we follow in the footsteps of the Lord. Jesus did not eat with Evil Kings but with the righteous poor.
Jesus ate with the tax collectors and was scorned for doing so. Jesus would welcome anyone and everyone. No one is turned away from him if they will only receive his grace. Hate and scorn are not the way to Christ.
Yes, Jesus ate with the tax collectors. Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." If you believe that the director was a doctor, then God would have permitted atheist to enter the soup kitchen. But the director was not.
Neither Jesus nor his disciples ever invited unbelievers to be in ministry. Christian Ministries do not allow unbelievers to participate in serving...in any capacity. That does not mean that unbelievers are not welcomed in the congregation.
The verse you are talking about is a parable. Jesus was teaching that the lost need him more than those who have already accepted him into our hearts. Where do you think Jesus would go if he walked the earth? Where he is "NEEDED."
We don't know what their intentions were! Or the directors. She could have been prioritizing the spreading of the Gospel over the need for more physical help. It is alarming to see so many quick judgements made by Christians about a vague scenario...
See, now this whole thing is mysterious to me. I don't understand why anyone's affiliation EVER should come up in giving. No one should know WHAT church someone is from; WHAT religion they believe in. This is why I can't tolerate missionaries. Either we give expecting NOTHING or we don't give at all. If we help the world in hopes of another's conversion to our way of thinking whether it's Christian, Muslim, Buddist, atheist, or whatever, it's unethical. That's the way I see it. I would NEVER contribute to a Church group, an atheist group, ANY group that gives with strings and if you put a church's name to it or an atheist name to it, trust me, there are strings. I give to Oxfam and the Red Cross. Period.
I completely agree with the no strings. No one should do that - it's just not right. Who cares? I can't understand why our common humanity isn't enough. We have to be divisive even in giving.. smh.
You guys just do not get it. You just have to project --- how it would be for you. Homeless that patron a church soup kitchen go there by choice. Or possibly without choice because the community gives them none --- shame on atheists.
Shame on atheists? for what? wanting to help others? shame on self-righteous "Christians" who would turn away help due to their own prejudices.
ChristinS, One time handouts or little rallies do not help the Homeless in any meaningful way. They are drive by's to make the giver happy. You make it clear that the action was taken for atheists by atheists. Not a commitment to help.
Ericdierker, Wow, you're assuming a great deal about Christin and me. You don't know who we are or what we do in the world. I wouldn't preach to those who "get it" and r active for consummate social change that would make soup kitchens unnecessary.
Eric, you have no idea what atheists like me do in our communities, and guess what? no one knows I'm an atheist or they'd turn down my help. Stop pretending you know everyone's motivations because you don't.
Yes you two are still missing the point. Homeless people have thoughts and attitudes also. Ones who want to go to a Christian Church go there. Many do not want atheists there. Is that clear enough. Church Soup kitchens have patrons --- not idiots.
Erickierker, Oh NOW I get it. Thanks so much! I thought Christ's message was something totally different! I thought Christ, if homeless,would embrace me n say "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.(and pure of heart-see God) My bad.
No you still miss the point. I am sorry but it is not about you. That might be cool, but it is not. When you are homeless you have freedom. No bones to hold, and that is all you got. You want to make a person going to a church atheist? Why?
as usual, the non-believers demand they be equal to the believers. in order to be equal, one must believe in God. this is a choice just as in everything else. the choice to serve God & his Church soup kitchen demands that the individual serve God
And this is the reason why I don't follow any organized religion. You tell me how a religion can preach love and compassion if they themselves shun people who don't share their beliefs. They say that we have no right to judge, but they ARE judging. They don't even really believe what they preach because if they did, they wouldn't make the same mistakes that they tell other people not to make.
So yes, I believe that Christian-based soup kitchen are wrong to turn away atheist volunteers...
you dont think this kind of thing is normal practice though do you? really how many christian run programs have you heard this kind of thing from?
Truthfully Christiananrkist 87, I've never heard of this happening but then, I don't really get involved with organized religion. I suppose it is possible...
Ironically you are judging them without knowing the whole story, so why do you get a pass and they don't?
There is a church here in town and they run a soup kitchen. They are a come as you are church. They do not turn people away that wish to volunteer or to receive meals.
In some other churches in my area, they will only allow volunteers that have been affiliated with the church for one or more years and have given their Testimony to the pastor. Honestly, I've never understood this reasoning. So, I don't attend those churches.
Rebuke evil and it shall cease - for righteousness shall bring multitudes while wickedness spurn them. Open acceptance is common in the righteous but they rebuke the wicked. The path of righteousness is filled with many friends, the wicked one not.
Believe it or not some compassion and empathy must be given the Bible thumpers. I am serious here. Nobody turned down food or "bags" for homeless. They just said not here. All kinds of soup kitchens and shelters turn down donations for a million reasons. I know of one that turned down money - because if they took it they would lose federal funding.
I have been there and done that. Homeless people ain't stupid. They know what places they want to patronize. If they go to a Holy Roller soup line, they have their reasons. And there is a good chance they would not appreciate non-believers feeding them or giving them stuff. Get over it. Homeless are discerning people also and shelters and soup kitchens that do not cater to their clients desires go out of business. Why do you think they are not all vegetarian soups, or seldom pork and seldom fish? Customer base is why.
Most these answers treat the homeless like they are starving animals, who are forced to hear hope and faith. That is a horrible attitude. Go hang out with them. They dine where they want to and have reasons for one Church on tuesday and one shelter on friday. They do not go to a church soup kitchen because they love atheists. Believe me there are plenty of secular soup kitchens and if there are not in this area --- well shame on atheists.
Starvation on our streets is not do to lack of choices, it is due to lack of ability to make those choices. And I would suggest that atheists showing up at a church kitchen may well eliminate that church as an option for some. And again do not think homeless are idiots -- they would damn sure know. I do not think I have seen a church in twenty years without a pantry for needy.
Now onto the believers. Believers believe, and they have every right to do so, that food for the soul is more important than for the body. And food given without that soul is not healthy for the soul. They have every right to believe that food from an atheist is harmful in their domain. That it takes away from the spiritual nature of the food.
Of course as a pastor I think the church people are a bunch of ignoramus idiots. I would find a way to create a celebration of diversity and love. I would invite my atheist friends. And I would guide my patrons to talk with and get to know these people who clearly care about them. To me that is food for the soul. But I accept the morons at this church, and if homeless would dine elsewhere.
I live in a rural area. There is only one soup kitchen in that county. They also made it very clear that they would not make it known that they were atheist, so there was no risk. I see your view but I apologize as I can not fully agree.
Hi peeples, shucks almighty, no need to apologize --- like I say, I cannot agree to myself fully either. I have just been an advocate for homeless for so long I just view life from a "tilted" perspective. Buddha was homeless and so was Christ.
This is why I tend not to mention my atheism when in the presence of any church or church based organization. A while back my wife volunteered for such an organization and they asked me to draft an article to advertise their health care clinic in the newspaper. I believed in what the organization was doing, but was weary the whole time about how they would react if they discovered my beliefs. And, it was this kind of reaction that I was fearing. Thankfully the subject never came up, but I agree with most of the responses here, that help shouldn't be turned away for a noble cause.
As an individual who provides charity to others, you are not viewed as an atheist. If you demand that Christian articles be removed from a public consecrated area you will be revered as evil. Those who walk the path of righteousness do not hide.
One only has to look at the parable of "The good Samaritan" to know that help from any source should be welcome.
certainly-the parable "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind"
Proverbs 11:3 The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.
Beautiful. And I think the passage about, what you do to the least of them you do unto me, applies. Insulting atheists is insulting God. Love always has to be the primary objective.
Jesus associated with publicans and sinners. I’ll bet he had some atheist associates, too. When he fed the multitudes, there is nothing in the Bible that says he required a “religion test” before he issued the food to the hungry people. It seems that this woman is placing herself above Jesus Christ. If he came to her shelter and volunteered to help, would she turn him away because he wasn’t a Christian? (Remember, Christianity hadn’t been invented yet.)
Yes, Jesus turned many of the disbelievers, but he did rebuke the evil & wicked. Jesus refused to eat food provided by the wicked Kings and the false prophets. He knew when to accept charity & when to deny it. The same as this manager. Blesse
thats bad. are you sure there isnt more to the story? i dont mean to be skeptical, but that just sounds unbelievable. if its just as you described it, then thats terrible. Its people like this that make it easy for other to hate christians. very unfortunate.
They have the right to, so whether it's "right" is irrelevant. If the church suspected that the atheist group was going to subvert their message, then it seems justified to turn away the atheist group.
Your local atheist group can always operate their own food station for the needy. Free food with no Jesus simultaneously shoved down your throat. I'd go!
Soup kitchens do not shove Jesus down the throat. Not the ones I have served at. We are lights for Christ. Many may ask what is up with us then we share Jesus No true Christian shoves Jesus down your throat.
I do not understand why the group made it known to the soup kitchen that they were an atheist group. Why not say, "Hi, I'm Mr. X and a group of us want to donate bags for the homeless and volunteer on such and such a date." I can understand why they were turned away, maybe in fear that the people would try to impose their atheistic beliefs on those in the soup kitchen. But, if you're there to volunteer, then that should be the extent of your work and conversation.
They did it b/c they knew the reaction the religious group would have. Bad PR for a church is good PR to atheists. And BTW, you said "atheistic beliefs". They have no beliefs, they are atheists because they are against a belief, not b/c they have thm
I see your point. i think what they did is wrong still, but there really was no need to mention they were atheist.
if what you say is true, that means they had no intention in volunteering. atheists do have beliefs. such as no god exists.
Then why do it in the name of Atheism? Why not just do it for the deed its self?
okay a) I do not have a belief that no gods exist. I think it's not accurate to characterize all atheists that way
b) as opposed to church groups that sermonize and proselytize that are only doing the good deed for the sake of the deed, yes?
Ok, from my understanding, an atheist is: " Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist"
So, I think it is accurate to characterize all atheists that way if they consider themselves atheist. elaborate if wrong.
your definition would be correct. I lack belief in a god because no god has been sufficiently proven. I was responding to the other comment that atheists "believe no gods exist"
Renee, as a business person I find it a daily occurance that when I do something I introduce myself as Hi I'm (insert name) and I am with (insert company/group). This is a common approach to adult life for many.
So the Atheist group was not a volunteer organization, it was an atheist company? Do they only hire atheists or can anyone apply?
If you see I said company/group. If a group of people walk in to any place to volunteer the first question asked is what company/group are you from. Get a group together and go to any charity and this question is asked. They are a group.
It's true. If you have more than one or two people and you walk into a shelter, a lot of the times the first question they ask is what organization or group you're from. A lot of times, they skip group and ask what CHURCH you're from.
Necessity is the mother of invention, so is the atheist group going to just complain or are they going to do something constructive and make a positive from a negative. Put up or shut up so to speak. That would show the true intentions were honorable
They already did. This past Saturday they stood on a street corner and passed out all the 300 bags they had for the homeless. We've already moved on to the next project.
I don't necessarily think that asking a question is complaining or whining. Since the time this question went up, I've volunteered twice for a couple good causes. How about you?
Once, but not to toot my own horn or because a question on the internet inspired me. This is just what I do every week. I have to say that my church is very proactive and organized, like many churches, so I would have to tip my hat to them.
Sure. And I'm sure the rest of us do it for poor or nefarious reasons.
Your opening comment asserted that these atheists volunteered to make a Christian organization look bad, and you later implied tha atheists would volunteer their time only because of this post. Neither assertions are true, and it appears arrogant
Computers lack empathy as do conversations on the internet. If you gathered these feelings from my post, then maybe you are projecting some insecurities of your own.
Maybe. Or maybe you should re read your first post and reevaluate your approach.
"They did it b/c they knew the reaction the religious group would have and bad pr for Christians is good pr for atheists"
maybe you should read my last post and re-evaluate yourself
Sure, whatever you say. I'm willing to admit that I may have been reading things into it that weren't intended, but you aren't willing to reevaluate and do the same. Got it. No longer worth the effort to find common ground.
Wow, you are just getting that now? I have been reading your posts for a long time, so I knew better than to expect you to find common ground with me.
I think I see part of the reason right here. Better to say no and be done. Than to give it time to work it's way into the minds of all of those involved. Kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario.
The rancor is clear. Avoid it.
hey JM. sorry to comment 2 days later. i dont mean characterize anyone a certain way. However, what exactly does the term atheists mean?
im unclear if your question from 2 days ago was directed at me.
I'm sure the kitchen knew who they were, it was a small town. What they made known was that they promised not to make known they were atheists, they wanted Christians to agree to deception - wolves in sheep's clothing? - no God no punishment for sin.
Trying to be objective here - as an atheist myself - I don't think it's very christian of these christians! In fact I think it's a massive insult to christianity and to humanity!!
I don't know the details of this case so I can only speak in general terms but it's not very social is it? It sets a very negative precedent because where do you draw the line? And on what principle is this decision made?
What if a person was badly injured and this same christian came along knowing the injured person to be an atheist. Would the christian pass by or try and get help? Once you start to travel down this road of exclusion you start to perpetuate hatreds that can grow and spread.
Why not let someone who wants to help HELP those who are in need. There is no more basic christian tenet.
General terms - this is not fact - but hypothetical projection
on what principle is this decision made - the same principle that protects those who would be harmed by others.
exclusion - what atheists do to Christians
Truth is stranger than fiction
No. That wasn't "Christian" of her, was it? This is an assumption on my part: unable to resist sermonizing herself, she probably couldn't conceive that the atheists wouldn't take the opportunity to "anti-sermonize". Sometimes people do put their agendas ahead of the task at hand-- feeding the homeless. Like she did.
Did this make the news? Because if so, I would like to get the whole story before I pass judgment on others.
http://www.hlntv.com/ Scroll down to story number 6, http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10 … ntroversy/ The last is more in depth
peeples - these 2 stories do not tell the tale, they simply portray selected quotes from the people interviewed.
The atheist group discriminates by stating:
"This group is open to all atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc."
I am part of this group and so is my Christian husband, even though the name is upstate atheist. There are Jews and Wiccas also. We don't attempt to convert but welcome any and all who are looking for a charitable organization to be part of.
Peeples, I hate to see that type of ignorance from the director and she needs to get her priorities straight. I have moved around a lot n my life and been to a lot of churches, so I would not say this is an exception and not the rule n my experience.
peeples - since you state you are a member of this charitable group, would you mind if I have a Priest come to your charitable site and consecrate it for the goodness God has provided? Or do you discriminate against such activity?
tbHistorian. You are anonymous. It is one thing to give anonymously. But NO Christian can preach anonymously. Skidaddle back to under a rock. You hurt Christians intentionally. That is bad juice.
Ah, a breath of fresh air - there is always "the rest of the story"
No- it's incredibly prejudice. Highly inappropriate, and small minded. It also shows they had no concern for the people they were "supposedly" helping! Anyone who is TRULY trying to help others would not have done that! My faith in humanity drops a bit more every day!
Gautama Siddhartha Buddha was supposedly an atheist, but he may have "followed Christ" in the deepest sense of the meaning.
The entire Bible is about "love." Even when it talks of "God's vengeance," behind the veil of the literal is a truth of God's love for us all. Even during Noah's Flood, all of the death and destruction did not hurt any of God's children, because we are not inherently Homo sapiens. We are immortal spirit, dead asleep (most of us) wrapped in human flesh.
For someone to reject others based on identity or background is what the pompous of Jesus's day did, and they earned no favor from Jesus because of their arrogance.
Whatever anyone does to the least of these humans, they do to the Heavenly Father. If they insult atheists, they insult the Heavenly Father. Because in those beautiful atheists resides lost children of God. If you insult God's children, you insult Him, even if those children still reject or don't believe in Him.
Now, if the director refused to allow them to pass out bags of food because of a fear of the food being substandard or contaminated, that would be an entirely different situation, but the result would be the same. Not trusting them for no cause is not trusting God. Still and insult.
Bless you, peeples, for your loving and caring heart.
The teachings of the Christian Religion is to help others no matter what--did she forget to read her bible or something????????????
In my opinion, it was not the right thing to do. People do not have to think the same way and believe in the same things to do good, to be a good person.
It sounds like this group was trying to donate an amazing amount of food and assistance for those who needed their help the most.
To turn away an honorable, noble and nurturing gift like that? Not good.
I don't care if you are an Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Republican, Democrat, Independent, animal lover, pizza hater or crazy cat lady - volunteering, doing good work, helping others is evidence of high moral character and strong values.
Good works = helping our fellow humans = good people
Someone's beliefs are no one else's business - particularly when there are people in that same building who have nothing, need help and are struggling each day simply to eat, to live, to take care of their kids and to survive.
I feel bad that my answer was hidden due to negative feedback. I'm not sure why my comment was received negatively. Ah well, onward I guess.
delaneyworld -- I like, appreciate and read your comment. There is a big heart in you, well worth sharing and I am going over to follow you. Site unseen.
It got hidden due to Christians (most likely) who are bothered that you don't agree with their viewpoint. I up EVERY answer to my questions even if I don't agree. Yours I agree 100%.
You describe Good works = helping our fellow humans = good people. However, you do not know that this is the description of the atheist attempting entry to the Christian Soup kitchen. The director knew and reacted according to that knowledge.
If that were the case then about 90% of the comments here would be hidden due to negative feedback. Attitudeds and comments like this from atheists is maybe why the soup kitchen turned u guys down.
At one point I came into this question and had 13 answers hidden. Except one all were people who felt the director did the wrong thing. If it was a question w/ answers talking bad about atheist I'd assume atheist were marking down. This is logic.
The only one that is hidden is one that is justifying the actions of the soup kitchen. That is a fact, which you have presented none of, so please don't try to preach logic to me until you start to practice it.
The only answer I see hidden due to negative feedback is by someone siding with the director - I'm sure Christians didn't do that. None of the atheist comments are hidden due to negative feedback.
Again, I didn't say they were hidden now! AT ONE POINT half WERE hidden. What is your problem Mklow? I have never once bashed believers here? i have always respected the opinions of others, so do you simply have a problem with me because I'm atheist?
It is not her fault! It is the other's who have voted thumbs down on the comment.
It's obvious what his problem is - you make a bifg deal out of negatives on atheist answers but say nothing about the first answer that was hidden being pro Christian.
No, I don't have a problem w/ u. I have agreed with u when u said things correctly haven't I? I am merely stating facts, whereas u r bashing Christians by saying something that we cannot prove or disprove. Fact: Pro-Christian statement is hidden.
Big deal? I commented on MY question to speak to someone who felt bad about their answer being hidden. I replied out of respect. So yeah, I was making a big deal out of her understanding it wasn't her fault. The other person didn't mention it!
But u could have done so without the backhanded comment about Christians that wasn't based on facts.
So atheist who likely agree with her are the ones voting her down? This was my point about logic (not insult). This was likely voted down by Christians and the other answer likely voted down by atheist. The other answerer just didn't mention it.
Using words like "likely" to describe the ones that could have voted down shows a subjective point of view, therefore you are not basing your assumption on facts or logic.
Logic is reasoning. Which is exactly what I did. I will agree to disagree since you obviously just want to debate. I don't post these questions to argue with believers, but to see opinions different than mine.
U said:"since you obviously just want to debate"
said pot 2 the kettle. lol
U said:" I don't post these questions to argue with believers"
actions speak louder than words
U said:" but to see opinions different than mine."
I gave u that + bonus facts
Well now I feel bad that my comment about feeling bad has created these disagreements. I appreciate the fact that this conversation developed originally as people trying to help me feel better. I had not been "thumbed down" before, so it was a shock.
No, it makes no sense. I'm certain Jesus would have welcomed them. Some Christians act like church is only for the "saved" people. Most people who become Christians became so after (associating) with other Christians.
The homeless need all the help they can get and no one should decide who is "good enough" to help another person. It does not sound like this group was observing the "Love thy neighbor as thyself" or "judge not lest yea be judged".
There is a verse that goes "for god so loved the (world) that he gave his only begotten son." It doesn't say he only loved those who "believed in him".
peeples, I do not think the atheist volunteers should have been turned away from helping in the soup kitchen. I am a Christian and in my personal opinion that is the worst thing a Christian could do. Just say that perhaps the atheist is attracted to the way Christians seem to attract individuals. It is certainly not our light but the Light of Jesus Christ that shines through us that draws individuals to Jesus. I believe that turning away the atheist is not biblical. What she did is like closing closing the church doors to the agnostic or atheist. No we want to bring the lost sheep into the fold. Into the true light found in Jesus. He is our strength and our source and our hope and eternal life. I am disappointed in the director. Of course there are always two sides to everything. If the atheist was going in to create mayhem then I could see her concern. Sorry to hear that happened. I do hope they passed out the sacks on the streets at any rate. My Love, In Christ. Skye
Everyone seems to be answering this question based on "their" opinion of what Christianity is or should be. That's fine because you are entitled to your opinion and to express it, but the real answer to this question isn't based in Christianity - it should be based on the soup kitchen management's right to run the kitchen as they see fit. If they are within their rights to run the enterprise that way then they were in the right and one should not be so quick to judge or second guess their decision, especially for those who are not Christians to thump the Bible at Christians..
Despite what the atheists said or the fact the soup kitchen is run by Christians, the management could have very good reasons for not accepting the atheist's help and YOU haven't heard both sides of the story, have you.
Perhaps the management prayed about it and felt led by God to say no and perhaps God knew if they had allowed it there would have been trouble. (of course if you are an atheist you're rolling your eyes at that statement aren't you). Perhaps they believed in this instance they were only trying to be in God's will.
There could be many other possible scenarios to this that no one reading here knows enough about to make such harsh judgements on a soup kitchen that is performing an honorable and charitable endeavor. Perhaps the soup kitchen knows more about the atheists than you do (which for you is nothing).
The soup kitchen may want to avoid the possibility that the 300 bags they didn't prepare may have something in it that makes people sick or bring upon disdain upon the charity, even a lawsuit. Since atheists don't believe in God Christians may wonder about their morality and not want to chance it - that is reasonable isn't it. I personally know of atheists whose morality would be repugnant to a lost soul but they hide it. On the other hand I know of so called Christians too whose morality is questionable, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant against it.
Who is stopping the atheists from providing what they have to people? Not the soup kitchen but the atheists themselves who are not endeavoring on their own to feed the poor but they are looking to use Christians that they themselves, if asked, would have to say Christianity is a farce. I myself do not see the wisdom of inviting an organized group of Atheists who by their definition discredit the very existence of Christianity to work at a Christian sponsored outreach and would question their motives for their attempt when they are fully capable of providing their 300 bags to the public themselves. Atheists should not be discriminated against and a Christian outreach like a soup kitchen should welcome them to receive if in need, but an operation by Christians like this is considered a ministry. I doubt any true Christian organization can justify having atheists in ministry positions.
Your entire answer implies atheist should not work together with Christians. Do you realize how many are family, married to, have children that are, or are good friends with Christians?
I agree peeples. My grandparents for example. My grandmother was devoutly religious and my grandfather was a devout atheist, yet they managed to be married many years and to support one another. They gave me hope in humanity.
Well you obviously know nothing about Christianity but a lot about unbelievers - you may have read what I wrote but you understand none of it and your comment demonstrates are happy to remain ignorant only seeing your side of the story.
Please enlighten me since you are so superior. " I doubt any true Christian organization can justify having atheists in ministry positions." Implies they shouldn't work together to help those in need.
Thank you for proving my point once again - you know nothing of Christianity yet YOU are so superior you don't hesitate to presume upon them how to practice their ministry and how they should believe. Only Ignorance breeds your kind of contempt.
No, that is not the right thing to do. I, being a Christian, would have allowed them to help out with the process of passing out bags to the homeless. If the director was truly Christian, she should have allowed them to pass out bags to the homeless. They wanted to do something that was helpful to people who have no home. I do hope that they passed out the sacks to the homeless. She was selfish and thought only of herself.
Hopefully, She changes her ways.
Seems a little harsh since we only know one side of the story. We are not in a position to judge the director or her motives. She may not have seen the preparation of the bags to know that they were suitable to hand out. Truth is we don't know.
A lot has been said on this question and I will not repeat, My humble submission is that the director should have used the opportunity to show appreciation to people who despite their religious beliefs decided act with compassion towards their fellow human beings. As long as the donations were not intended at promoting their point of view or attack the beliefs of the christians I think the director erred in rejecting the donations.
Not okay. Just because people do not share the same views does not give them the excuse to treat people like that. People can help people no matter what their beliefs are. If someone wants to donate $1million to that same church and they are not Christian do you think they would turn that down as well?
I would imagine this has more to do with the Health Department standards and the legalities involved, than a Christian vs non-Christian issue. As our society has become more sue happy, it is very important to protect your business, regardless of whether it is for profit or not.
It is possible that the groups main objective was to provide the Gospel- to provide hope for people who may desperately need it. In any Christian organization that is the first priority. This is because Christians believe that more than anything people need to hear this message. Man does not live on bread alone, but on the word of God- that is the idea. Soup kitchens open up a wonderful opportunity to try and help fulfill multiple needs- physical needs through food and comfort (and often clothes, and other necessities) emotional needs through support, conversation and showing love, and to Christians most importantly- spiritual needs through spiritual discussion.
This means that they likely have a staff that are prepared to share their faith with any one who asks. An atheist would not be able to fulfill this particular need that the organization would want to meet in a sincere way. (By this I mean the atheist cannot sincerely share faith in God :p) Therefore the atheist while providing food, would not be providing the most important aspect of care that the organization is concerned with.
All that being said, this is pure speculation based on the details provided. I don't know the whole story, but I hope that I am correct in her motivations for turning away the volunteers.
No, I don't think it was right. I am not an atheist, but you have to wonder how the Christians at that soup kitchen would feel if the tables were turned. I just cannot imagine Jesus saying no, you can't help me pass out this fish because you're an atheist.
I don't understand any Christian group that would turn away anyone who wants to help, whether God believing or not. We are all here to serve each other and to share needs. I am a Christian, and am saddened by others who proclaim to be such, yet don't live as Jesus would have in such a situation.
As a Christian myself, I think it was wrong for them to turn volunteers away. They missed an opportunity to help their community in a much bigger way...300 bags would have helped a lot of people. Plus, it would have given an opportunity to share your faith if any had questions. (no i don't mean push faith on to the atheists because I don't believe in that either)
Besides I don't think it showcases one of the foundings of our faith and that is to love thy neighbor. It doesn't say to "shut the door in their face because we have different beliefs."
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