<snipped hub text - do not repost your hubs in the forums>
The bible is the word of God. The bible was written by man and inspired by God.The full extent of inspiration can be clearly seen in Second Timothy 3:16. This verse tells us that God inspired all scriptures and that it is profitable to us.
When it was said that all scripture is inspired by God, He was talking about all of scripture that was written before that time.
I am not commenting upon whether scripture that was written after that is or is not inspired by God.
I am only pointing out the fact that this verse in Timothy was not talking about every written word that in centuries to come are said to be scripture.
HIS reference was concerning the Hebrew scriptures that was available for them to read at that time.
I say the bible is of God and the reason for my saying so is the things in the bible are things that mankind would not say, they would try to change things so that man look better before others then what we are really like. Man has always been selfish so if man wrote the bible for his own desires he surely would not say that Jesus drove the money changers out of the church, No, knowing man they way I do I'm sure that passage would have read something like "And Jesus Saw The Money Gathered By The Money Changers and It Was Good!" That's the kind of man I know existed and exist.
Bible the word of god or man?
If the bible was the word of a god, then why are the doctrines unattainable by man. Did god's sense of humor relish in the fact that humans(man/woman) would be too stupid to figure it out?
It makes more sense that the words are of man and nothing more.
If you spent anytime reading it at all,just on prophecy alone you'd realize this is a supernatural work that man could not acheive without God.
Back in school. Did you ever do that thing where a message is passed in whispers, from one child to the next, the last saying out loud, what message they heard? The bible is the word of god, passed around by man. Not exactly a chicken or the egg problem.
Sure. valid point. But consider the prophecies. How does one explain the foretelling of crucifying,The future if Israel, the coming of Christ? and with such detail?Psalm 22 was written hundreds of years prior to Christ,yet the detail is amazing. There are countless incidents of this in the Bible.Word of God or Man? I say God.
Did I say something to make you think I don't believe in "SOMETHING?" I said, the bible is the word of god. PASSED around by man.
that's easy. They realised that the OT was so legalistic and rediculous, that they wrote new versions to over-ride it (and didn't even match up records properly). None of the NT writers were Jesus' comtemporaries (assuming Jesus actually existed)
Are you talking to me? If not, then discard this post.
If you are talking to me, then I would suggest you go and learn more, because apparently you're not finished.
I'll never be finished. Noone will. The book is bigger than we will ever be.
I could say the same for Mickey Mouse, and it would actually more sense.
there is so much in the bible, i am glad it is not larger. just when i think i have peeled off all the layers i can, God reveals more.
And no, I wasn't talking to you. Answering the forum question.
Most of the great men in history are some where in the middle of the one and only right way to God and atheists?
Most of the great men in history live between over rightious God and atheists?
For JR Just to add
I'm enlightening more from the thousands of books combine from these Great men than one book of obsession.
That's awesome. It's good to research. I'm just convinced. There is a reason for the obsession. There's probably 1000 biblical works. It's got to be the most written about topic in the history of man,great or otherwise.
The obsession is only one God is everything and only one book is universal truth and knowledge and every word is truth. For greater number of the people in the world, the Bible says they can go to hell. The other 2000 version of the bible can fight and disagree with each other until the end of time, as far as I care.
I cancel subscribing to hell and my lottery ticket to heaven.
we have different obsessions,that's all. I use several different bibles and other resources,but I believe. It's fine if you don't,I'm just saying regarding the forum question,GOD.
Anyone who has read it sees it is an endless book,unlike any other.You know whether you've read it or not.
Its one of the reasons I wrote a thread about middle ground of religion and atheist. It’s for a better understanding of balance. Obsession leads to insanity, even if an obsessive is positive like a runners, in which can lead to an addiction or unbalance lifestyle. OR Like Sodom and Gomorrah and the USA lifestyle
I agree. And I love that you placed america in the same sentence as sodom and gomorrah!
I agree completely that to read and understand the prophesy should substantiate the validity of the author.
Isiah foretells of the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem at least 120 years before it is destroyed.
Jeremiah delivers a prophetic message to the people of Jerusalem that they will serve the king of Babylon for 70 years almost 20 years before Nebuchadnezzar conquered the city.
Daniel received visions identifying and naming
the next two kingdoms that will receive dominion over Israel.
The fourth is identified but not by name. The fourth is said to rise up out of one of the four smaller kingdoms that Greece is to break up into. As history shows, that was the Roman Kingdom.
The MIS interpretations that have become popular over the last 2000 years, that these visions are describing events that are yet to be fulfilled in OUR future, are the root cause for ALL of the confusion concerning all of scripture.
All of prophesy proves themselves if we can but recognize that these prophesy written in Daniel with the exception of the last few verses of the 12 chapter were fulfilled before that Hebrew Nation came to their end of days in 135 AD.
That is the problem in a nut shell.
After this is realized... many truths come to light!
I find it interesting that the sentiment of many people in this generation is to rid ourselves of the one book in the world which has truely done more good for the human race that any other has or will. There is no doubt that the Bible is the inspired words of a perfect God given to imperfect people.
There is little doubt that the Bible is the word of men, written by men, for men. Specifically ancient men who did not understand their world and needed to make sense of it, and to justify their prejudices and assumptions about life.
One of the biggest indications that the Bible is the word of men is that the same kinds of themes, ideas, values, commands and beliefs that we find in the Bible are found in many other ancient religious books: such as non-Biblical Jewish texts, the Quran, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the texts of Zoroastrianism, and others.
Themes like faith in the divine, sacrifice, rejection of worldly matters, minute regulation of day-to-day affairs and human relations, and many others are found in countless ancient religious texts. Motifs such as "the sacrificial lamb," a great flood that remakes the world, sin, wrathful deities, redemption, the golden rule, etc, are extremely common among world religions large and small, from Asia to Africa to the Americas.
also, that they did not have a basic clue of how things work (eg lightning, rainbows, earthquakes, extreme weather, disease etc). Even today, with birth defects and cancer (which has mechanisms understood by scientists), "believers" will say that sin did it.
The people that wrote the bible were trying to understand their imperfect world, so dreamt up a supernatural being, in their likeness, but "perfect", and made blamed humans for the imperfections. Throw in a bit of magic to here and there.
Our imperfection is ever so slowly and gradually turned into God's perfection when He lives in us. We assume that perfection, by spending time reading and meditating and praying. Go to any dog show and it is amazing how the owners even start to look like their pets!
How right you are but despite all the inconsistencies of man's fumbling and the evolution of his thinking and knowledge, God gets His message of redemption through. We change but He does not therefore so much of religious tradition is who ha and trash
"... so much of religious tradition is who ha and trash"
I would love to know exactly *how* you are able to discern which religious beliefs are valid, and which are trash?
bible the word of god or man
The ultimate truth about Bible is that:
1. JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave the Word of God or anything in writing revealed on him from the Creator- GodAllahYHWH in the form of stone tablets as was in the case of Moses.
2. Or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself as a biography when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, he died natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India.
3. Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church, as there was none in existence.
4. We do respect the NTGospels which have account of Jesus life, but it does not have much utility except that we may treat it as a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each bit of event for finding truth in it on merit.
5. There are about 120+ writers who wrote a sort of life account about the time of Jesus, that could be accepted as a sort of historical source and truth could be searched out of it like we do from other sources of history on merit of each bit of event, unbiased. All these 120+ books must be treated at par but unfortunately some have been selected by the clergy and are known as NTBible while others have been discarded. This shows their bias.
6. The historians should come forward and sift the material for truth, if found, on equal footing from all of these 120+ books, with reason, rationality and valid arguments acceptable to the whole world, as these are claimed to be Universal by our Protestant/Catholic friends.
8. I understand that NTBible does not come from Jesus; it is mostly the working of Church people.
paar, 1/ same for Mohammed he did not leave any writeings of the word of God. Same truth for Quran as Bible!!
2 / please show proof that Jesus went to India, you talk a lot now prove it????
3/ Mohammed left nothing behind authenticed by Mohammed or Allah
4/ EXPLAIN what you mean as this makes no sence. this says NOTHING kindly re wite to make some sence!
5/ produce your alledged 120+ writers?
6/ name the' Protestant and Cahtolic' friends that 'claim these books are Universal' prove this statement paar and produce your 120+ books!!!!
8/ Prove your statement paar !
Simple paar you ask for proof, I ask for same rules. Chapter and verse also page. Names of the 120+ writers. ALL OF THEM, you brought them up paar now NAME THEM!!!!!
paar produce 120+ books you say exist, produce them by name.!!!!!
paar you always state Jesus went to India PROVE IT> Chapter verse and page, in the Quran or Bible , no other sorce if not in either book, then is untrue and not word of God.
ok paar I abswered every statement you made with reason, now you answer me with reason!!!!!!!!
Isa.9:6 Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the gov't shall be on his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful, Councelor, the Nighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace
Jesus is God, our Father
He died for us
God manifested himself in the flesh, the flesh died, for that to happen God had to leave the flesh
NTBible is not authored by the Creator; it does not come from Jesus even; it is mostly the working of Church people who were sinful men.
paar if the NT is not authored by the word of God, by your same rules neither was the Quran.
was not the Quran written by the memory's of hundreds on what Mohammed was supose to be told by a angel who also hapened to
be a messenger from God?
If you state the NT is not authored by God.
Then under the same rules The Quran is also not orthered by God'
you can't have it both ways paar!!!
old saying paar 'what is good for the goose is good for the gander'
if you apply your own rules both the Quran and Bible were never authored by God.
People will always have something about something they truly do not understand. The Bible was written by man, inspired by God.
It is sort of like this, if you where to read your neighbors personal mail, Lets say you read something from a distant relative. You have no clue to the majority of whats being said. But you assume that you do and form your own options concerning matters that you lack understanding about. It is truly upon having a personal relationship with the author that you will clearly understand what is being conveyed.
I used to think differently about the bible, but now after desiring Truth and having turned to God for the Answers, no doubt it is the Word of God. My life has been transformed by His grace that is offered to us all..
Bible is written by sinful men; not by inspired by the Creator-God
you want to speak badly about our faith and Holy Book, that is not the way of The God of all creation
Didn't Jesus criticize the mistakes of the Jews when he went to the temple?
Didn't he speak bad about them?
He was speaking to them, not about them, that is a big difference
What is the difference in both? Please elaborate
Allah would not want you to talk bad about people, but you can talk to them,
it is backbiting, gossip when you talk about them
I am humbly expressing the truth what I sincerely believe; it is just following the way of Jesus, as per Bible:
 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you tithe mint, and anise, and cummin, and have left the weightier things of the law; judgment, and mercy, and faith. These things you ought to have done, and not to leave those undone.  Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel.  Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you make clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but within you are full of rapine and uncleanness.
 Thou blind Pharisee, first make clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, that the outside may become clean.  Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness.  So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.  Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; that build the sepulchres of the prophets, and adorn the monuments of the just,  And say: If we had been in the days of our Fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
 Wherefore you are witnesses against yourselves, that you are the sons of them that killed the prophets.  Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.  You serpents, generation of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of hell? 
back to youe old ways paar answering a question with a question!!!!!
Jesus exposed what was in their hearts.
He did not have to criticize them He just spoke the truth.
that is only what you think paar prove who was 'sinful'?
Paar I am not our to argue with anyone in here. What you think is right and what you think is wrong is what you think.
I also believe that there is a great difference in thinking something and knowing something. But even knowledge is puffed up at times.
What it is I do know, is that God loves you greatly.
Jesus is the only one who can truly show you the Fathers love, Trusting Him is the way to know the TRUTH.
DaKingskid, I agree with your insightful message.
Then why are the doctrines unattainable by human beings?
I belive the 120+ so called 'books' are all in paars head, like Jesus goint to India, it just never happened.
That still didn't answer my question. But that's okay, I don't expect any religious folk to answer it.
Which doctrines? Thou shalt not kill? Thou shalt not commit adultery? DO unto others? Which ones you havin' problems with, Bucko?
How about the MAJOR 3 Top Doctrines?
All been proven to be unattainable by human beings.
Doctrine #1) Selfless - unattainable.
Doctrine #2) Oppress Desires - unattainable.
Doctrine #3) 100% belief in a god - unattainable.
Doctrine #1- If following the bible or any religious document, then due to human nature- one would become selfish, much less be selfless.
Doctrine #2- If following the bible or any religious document, then due to human nature- one would become insane, proven by science.
Doctrine #3- 100% belief cannot be done, because human nature doesn't allow any individual to erase all doubt.
Therefore- I'm not having a problem with any of them "bucko". They are all false and unattainable. Thus, religions are false, because religious scripture is claimed to be "inspired" by a god of some sort.
Thus, leads to understanding there is NO GOD above looking out for human beings.
I'm non religious and just curious about the100% belief in a god. When the world and universe is 99% unknown to us, it doesn’t seem to be a fair question, relating to faith. I can have no doubt about something I have faith in, like -up, down and sideway and so on. Still, can not be 100% sure it may not be defined as something else.
Let's not forget that the Bible was not written in such a way that may easily understand it for the simple fact that people have been for years trying to kill Christians. In situations or circumstances such as this the best way to get your message across is to hide it in plain sight. Understanding the Bible isn't easy and it is only with God's help will our eyes be open to the messages he is presenting in the Bible.
And on what authority do you make this claim?
When one receives Christ as Savior, Their eyes will opened to the Truth.
The word says that unless you are born again you will by no means see the kingdom of God.
Getitrite, I presume you're directing the question to me, so if anyone who studies the bible at all, can see for themselves that parables are used throughout the bible
One can check the dictionary for the word parables
2. a statement or comment that converys a meaning indirectly by the the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.
A better question: Is the book "Moby Dick " the work of God or man? CAREFUL ANSWER NEEDED>
I answered a couple different ways(Schizoid personality...sorry) But here is the REAL ANSWER: God. How so? Jesus said "YOU ARE ALL GODS"
My 85 year old mother can send a message around the world just by typing into a computer and hitting an enter key, so why would an omniscient being choose this nonsensical and primitive method to convey his message for us in the postmodern age?
no parables needed!
God can now upload his EXACT message directly from heaven to our computers, but it seems that He just can't get the hang of modern technology.
It reveals your God as a mere ignorant primitive man, with all his limitations.
This God sounds absurd.
Uh... it's alittle closer than your keyboard. The comp is way behind the place where this info has been kept. Again, ignorance rears it's ugly head. IT'S HALLOWEEN EVE, take off your mask.
Could you stop talking in parables, and say what you actually mean?
I'm not the want making confusing comments..you're talking about God should be sending messages to our computer? Number one-God doesn't have to do anything we say or demand. And just because we think God should act a certain way doesn't mean he has to do that either. God is God and we are Not God so we don't make the rules.
My comments (all of them) are a part of hubpages public record. You can finesse them, you can physically take their hand and show them, to can try to drum it or beat it in w/ a baseball bat. You can lead a horse to water, but if it is blind, deaf, and dumb....It stll won't have a clue where it is and what it's to do. The same thing has been being said for 2000 years, before that the whole answer appeared on the very first page of the Old Testament. If you, and those who have influenced you, have not understood, then it doesn't really matter what I write or how I write it. Those who believe know what it means. And those like you? Scoff at anything they don't grasp. Eyes to see and ears to hear. Pray on it.
Jesus said: "It is as plain as the nose upon your face."
Jesus is only a figment of your nonsensical delusion.
Jesus, means absolutely nothing to me, as I'm not inclined to blindly follow authority.
Actually, the person known as Jesus was written about by the 1st century historian Josephus. His accounts of not just the man Jesus, but other people and occurrences at that time and place, are considered to be factual. His accounts can be found in the Roman records from the day. Romans kept REALLY good records.
Does it state anywhere that he was the son of God?
Josephus, to my knowledge, was not a christian. I was addressing the statement " figment of non-sensical delusion". Obviously just looking for arguing points. Bear with me here: IF TWYC God is, then is "Author of all things god or evil" Then, God is the author of your very thoughts, for "GOOD" or "EVIL" issues strictly from the mind of man. God, then, is not one inspiration, God is ALL inspiration. If this is indeed the case, then the statement "Son Of God" applies to you as much as Jesus. So YES,YES,YES! Jesus was the son of God. As are all humans the sons and daughters of God. Here's a better idea. Read the "Owner's Manual"
IF is the operative word. After asking IF, you have no right to conclude your opinions are true.
BTW, I can hardly decipher your sentences. You should work on clarity. No offense.
Again, "IF" ...so this is mere improbable conjecture.
However, feel free to ignore that fact, and rejoice in the delusion.
I hope you are not referring to the bible, because I would hate to think that you would be delusional enough to think that this Bronze Age book of foolish myths, probably written by primitive goat herders, is an owner's manual.
The first person to cite this passage of Antiquities was Eusebius, writing in about 324. In his Demonstratio Evangelica, he quotes the passage  in essentially the same form (he has πολλους των Ιουδαιων instead of πολλους Ιουδαιους, and inserts απο before του Ελληνικου).
As is common with ancient texts, The Antiquities of the Jews only survives in medieval copies. The manuscripts, the oldest of which dates from the 11th century, are all Greek miniscules, and all have been copied by Christian monks. The text of Antiquities appears to have been transmitted in two halves i.e. (books 1–10 and books 11–20). Other ad hoc copies of the Testimonium also survive, as a quotation in the works of Christian writers.
The topic of the Testimonium's authenticity has attracted much scholarly debate. The discussion generally falls into three camps of:
Those who defend the authenticity of the entire passage;
Those who reject the entire passage;
Those who believe the passage has an authentic core but also includes later embellishments by Christian scribes.
Recent scholarly discussion has favoured partial authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum. Louis Feldman counts 87 articles published during the period of 1937-1980, "the overwhelming majority of which question its authenticity in whole or in part".
Géza Vermes offers a speculative reconstruction of the original text of the Testimonium Flavianum, removing later Christian additions, indicating deletions with '...':
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man...For he was one who performed paradoxical deeds and was the teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews [and many Greeks?]. He was [called] the Christ. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him...And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_o … thenticity
Are you bringing anything substantial to these debates, or is your goal just to be as obnoxious as possible, with your arrogant and nonsensical opinions?
Your position is absurd.
Who are you talking about?? yourself or someone else.
Hard for me to tell.
Anything to support the faith. God must be so proud that you would lie for Him.
I'm not sure what reality you're living in but during the earlier stages of life people didn't even know what a typewriter was and even though God knows better then we can even imagine he deals with us at our own ignorance level.
This statement his absurd.
Saying you know what God wants, but that we can't even imagine what He wants is downright contradictory.
Contradiction is what man says and does:
People want to say man basically good
let history paint a different point of view
yet there has never been a generate who has not dealt with war and conflict.
Contradiction is what man says and does:
People want to say man is basically good
yet history paints a different point of view.
men there has never been a generate who has not dealt with war and conflict.
....and who knows more about war and conflict than Christain.
Alexander, Xerxes, The Greeks, The Romans. More modern day? The founding fathers, United Kingdom, Kaiser Wilhelm, Adolf Hitler, The people of Viet Nam, Korea...... All of these waged non-religious wars. Would you like body count comparisons? The wars on your side of the unsupported statement: Crusades and Constantine.
I presume you're asking me the question: If one would like to worship Mody Dick then they are free to do so in America. Sodom and Gomorrah did. Man has always sought his own way away from God so if Mody Dick is the God you want to worship then have at it.
Oh, ye of so little faith. Your understanding needs to be increased. Maybe you should seek exorcism.
As a Moby Dick worshiper you have no room to suggest what anyone else should educate themselves about.
OK, bright boy. Who ever wrote anything? The answer: GOD. Figure that one out. Starting to think you are soft in the noggin.
You'll never finish it. I'm in Genesis...again. It's just as new as it was the first time. Plus, I'm in a KJV now. There is no doubt that this is an inspired work.
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