Both of my daughters -one in elementary school and the other in middle- brought home bibles from school last week. We live in the rural south.
I looked it up and discovered it seems to be legal. Apparently kids can take anything to school and pass it between themselves, and so the gideons are getting around the laws by using kids trained at local churches to peddle their filth to other kids.
Sneaky and underhanded and exactly what you'd expect from a christian organization intent on taking over the planet.
How do I fight back? Who is fighting this that I can lend support to? Is there no humanist organization which is using these methods to counter-act the movement?
No? Are atheists too respectful? Is that it?
Once again, proof that we live in a society where christians think it is perfectly okay and even morally good for them to thwart the rights of others and impose their stupidity on all of us.
What do I do? Accept it? If I try to fight back in any way, my kids will pay the price.
Well, the mere thought of people passing out religious text to others while attending school is simply unconcionable! Those kids should get thirty lashings in town square for participating in such a diabolical scheme.
This kind of thing can be very frustrating. Legalities aside and allowing for the free exchange of ideas we all know that if the Koran were being passed out it would be the lead story on Fox news..OUT RAGE IN OUR LOCAL SCHOOLS..blah, blah. When it comes to belief systems hypocrisy is rule number one. I think the safety of your children is of most importance. Which means any kind of public solution is not a good idea.
Schedule some private meetings; talk to the principals. They have the most power in this situation. The point being public schools in this country are for education not marketing (of any kind). And most importantly in our country some body else's kids are off limits when it comes to politics, religion, or what ever else us silly adults get into. That's the American way.
At least at the high school level, kids all across the country are required to read at least parts of the Koran in some history textbooks. I don't see what there is to be so scared of.
Wow, why do you say " peddle their filth"?
"Are atheists too respectful?"
I don't know about anyone else, but I have NEVER found that to be even remotely the case.
"How do I fight back?"
What is there to "fight back" against? It sounds like the school is not requiring kids to take these Bibles. If your kids share your 'values' can't they just say "no thank you" and leave it at that?
"Once again, proof that we live in a society where Christians think it is perfectly okay and even morally good for them to thwart the rights of others and impose their stupidity on all of us."
From what you describe, I don't see where anything has been "thwarted" or "imposed," nor do I see any indication of the 'politeness' you referred to.
" If I try to fight back in any way, my kids will pay the price."
How so? What do you mean?
Between your title for this thread and your opening post, it seems there is a problem here, but it's not one of rights infringement.
The kids who have Christian or religious views are handing out the books to friends or other people. If you prefer to have your children not receive them, then tell them they shouldn't accept them.
Choice is always predominately one's own ability. Explain to your kids why you do not want them to bother with the tripe written within any of the religious books.
You have a sound conscience within you, to guide you, so what other people do, shouldn't change how you handle your children.
No need to ruffle feathers that do not need ruffling, when a simpler solutions presents itself, via clarity and awareness. You are clear(have clarity) on how you want your children to grow, learn and remain open. You have awareness of the tactics of those who are religious.
I don't see a problem here.
I don't think there is anything bad about it. In response you will be perfectly right to send something for reading of the children who gave your children the Bible.
Humans beings are supposed to be social; the social contacts should be encouraged and should not be cut off.
Patience is a good attribute of a man.
"No? Are atheists too respectful? Is that it?"
Yes, and this post proves it.
Guess who is pointing it out with one-liner taunts? TK ?
Its funny to me how so many of you seem to think one person is responsible for all of the posts you disagree with.
That may be because there aren't really so many of you, in fact I would wager that the liberals here have many more accounts they post with than those who are conservative.
Polls prove there are many more of us than you.
And you think that makes you right?
However, in this case, we probably agree. Kids handing out Bibles hurts no one. You can always use it to prop up a broken table or for flattening things.
you could give your kids the Koran to hand out.
Or go to a school board meeting to complain
no,religious books should not be handed out in a public school
I've spent a lot of my career working in both a public and private school, and I don't ever recall this happening.
I did find this article discussing the legality of it. I guess Gideons have been doing it for years, but I can't imagine school districts allowing it on school grounds. That would give any religious organization the right to distribute their material also.
I would inquire with your school district.
http://www.ffrf.org/faq/state-church/bi … c-schools/
We used to get handed the new testament at school often back in|HS in seattle after school as we walked home. We didn't convert but we didn't mind either and did take em. We had, er, um, *cough* uses for them
We were a bunch of second generation hippies, what can I say?
What we got outraged at were to big signs they would sometimes stand around carrying with dead baby fetuses on ugh!
I think kids need to be brainwashed by the Mormons otherwise such incidents will continue to happen. Why there is need to handout books, isn't brainwashing at home enough ?
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There is nothing wrong with reading the bible,
Since that one is going to be reading anyway then reading the bible is actually good reading material.
The problem lies not in what is written, but what it has been made to be by those who believe in it and promote it.
When one actually finds Truth, that which is written will justify you rather than condemn.
You would also see that you did not necessarily need to read it at all as a matter of fact.
Read it cause it is good, but do not believe what Christians say about it.
I would let my kids make up their mind and be done with it. No big deal to me.
Yes me too! They will make their own minds up with or without our help. Usually without!
You are in the Bible Belt, Pandora. Logic and common sense is futile against blind faith.
I guess I didn't explain myself well. I'm not worried about my children seeing a bible. We own several and I've made them all familiar with it and it's origins. I'm disturbed by the principle of it, and it gets worse.
I was mistaken on a couple of points. First it wasn't kids. That was my assumption based on what I found when I looked up the legality of it.
Second my elder daughter didn't get one this year - when she said me too she meant she had gotten one in the fifth grade as well.
So it isn't county-wide, necessarily.
It seems like a fifth grade ritual. The fifth grade classes are brought to the library one by one. They were told that "we" would like for you all to learn about Jesus. They were then told that everyone should take one of the little bibles which were stacked up on a table. Then they went back to class.
The person who brought them to the library and told them this was one of the administrative ladies.
Look there are reasons I'm not active in the pta's. I learned that one my first year here and have ever since advised the kids to keep mom's atheism kinda quiet for their own sakes.
I am active with the local democratic youth organization (because the one for old people was infiltrated years ago I understand) and I know things here aren't the way they're supposed to be.
People get harassed.
Well thanks for the input. Even from the people who said it's no big deal and I should just accept it.
I'm not sure if you guys understand that I really do already do a whole lot of that.
I feel like a wuss from all this accepting and hiding.
Well thanks again for the input.
"Look there are reasons I'm not active in the pta's. I learned that one my first year here and have ever since advised the kids to keep mom's atheism kinda quiet for their own sakes."
100% none of my business, but...
Not being active in the PTA and teaching your kids to be cowards about your beliefs doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
Paar, I am seriously considering your suggestion. Hoping to find some program already doing this, but I guess not.
Here's what I've found out. It is legal according to federal guidelines for the school to allow the proliferation of religious materials in school as long as it is not done in the classroom. It's also not supposed to interupt instructional time.
It is apparently left ultimately up to the school principal. Whom I assume receives pressure from the local school board to comply. In my searches I quickly found that on our county's school system website, at least one member of our school board is a gideon. The principal of the elem. school is a woman. Cannot fathom why she'd be willing to deal with gideons. Again, I expect that she receives pressure from the school board.
I know you guys don't believe me, but that is how it is. We had a guy trying to register voters in some of our lower income neighborhoods, he was arrested for drunk driving at 8:30 in the morning on his way to classes. He was cold-stone sober. In fact, I believe him when he says he has never even been drunk, let alone drunk driving. (He's a real geek.)
I stated some strong opinions on a local facebook page once, and my husband got a speeding ticket just a few days later. He wasn't speeding at all. He felt so strongly about it -and he's not like me on these sort of things so that's unusual for him- that he tried to fight it in court. The judge told him he would undoubtedly lose and gave him one last chance to cop a plea.
When I finally admitted to a nice lady from the PTA who had befriended me and whose daughter was a close friend of mine that I really wouldn't ever visit her church because I didn't believe in christianity, she disappeared into thin air, as did our daughters' friendship, and the PTA totally stopped including me. I was repeatedly told everything is covered. This by a PTA which had previously hounded me 24/7. Suddenly they had more help than they could ever use.
So yeah, I'm a little sick of the prevalent christian society which keeps requiring me to turn the other cheek.
I'm going to do something, but I haven't figured out what yet. I don't want my children involved.
I think one should be broadminded, having some patience and tolerance.
It is not the end of the world. Let your childern be exposed to different ideas; they will learn this way how to react socially with others.
"They were not forced upon students; they were available to pick one up as they were leaving for their transportation," Lord said. "It was a table just as if they were picking up a pamphlet for parks and rec or any other activity students have an opportunity for."
School administrators and officials also were following federally established guidelines for distributing free materials in schools, which does not exclude religious material, Superintendent Raymond Akridge said.
"On the face of it, our schools are not taking a position of evaluating the materials for religious purposes or any other purpose," Akridge said.
"We allow the principals to make the decision whether or not the Gideons (in this case) are allowed a table at the school," Akridge said. "It's for fifth grade only and it is announced that any student who would like to have a Bible is welcome to pick one up in the hallway on that table. ... There's never a conversation between the Gideon representatives who just stand by the materials and the students who just walk by and take a Bible."
Other school systems, like Madison County's, follow the same unwritten policy, deferring to the federal law, Superintendent Mitch McGhee said.
"That's what the law states, that you can have an open forum such as that so if the Church of Latter Day Saints or an Islamic group if they wanted to lay out some materials, then they would have to do it as well ... it's either all or nothing, you can't pick and choose."
If the school system has never denied other religious groups the same opportunity to display materials, then schools aren't doing anything wrong, said Debra Seagraves, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Georgia.
"If the local mosque or synagogue asked to display materials and they got turned down, we might have a troublesome situation," Seagraves said.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/la … 2530.shtml
That would be alright. I think if you meet the school authorities personally and tell them that such facilities should also be available to others; they may allow.
I think if you people meet the school authorities personally and tell them that such facilities should also be available to others; they may allow your reasonable approach, no need to complaint against the school legally when the matter could be solved amicably and socially.
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