Evolutionists

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   pennyofheavenposted 12 years ago

   I was on the other evolution thread a minute ago and read this comment and it brought to mind a few questions;
   
   (the comment was in reply to someone else)
   
   Please feel free to start those threads. You'll find that if evolutionists are indeed angry, it is because they work hard at what they do but are constantly bombarded with lies from believers who have no understanding of what they do
   
   What do evolutionists on this forum work hard at?
   
   Is it solely to prove God doesn't exist or is to discover truth about our origins?
   
   What do these perceived lies (from creationists) that evolutionists refer to... do in the grand scheme of evolutionary discovery?
   
   Does what creationists believe affect the way in which evolutionists work? 
   
   Does what creationists believe affect their discoveries?
   
   if not then.......
   
   Is it merely affecting something that is hard wired in the brain that the ego is offended in some way?
   
   Any comments?

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      Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That doesn't refer to this forum at all, it refers to the armies of scientists who understand and use evolution in their work every day. They spend their lives trying to gain more understanding of the world around us.
      
      
      
      Scientists understand that they can't prove your god doesn't exist, just like they can't prove unicorns don't exist.
      
      

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Oh sorry about that...
         
         Perhaps I need to rephrase my question so it is more clearer "What do those who subscribe to evolution on this forum work hard at?"
         
         I thought that is what evolutionists (army of scientists) do. It makes more sense to me that they would be trying to understand the world rather than trying to disprove anything.
         
         So what is all the fuss about with those that subscribe to evolution? If scientists understand this how come their subscribers don't.

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            Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            They are trying to educate others, evidently.
            
            
            
            No fuss at all, whatever gave you that idea?

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               pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Haha ok

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      frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I work hard at helping people become better hubbers/writers. That's what I spend most of my time doing on Hubpages. Oh - and I write a lot of hubs too. Which also goes into the pot at making Hubpages the site it is today.
      
      Which means that I support the forum from outside too ... not just from within it.
      
      And I think you'll find that typical of many of the evolutionists.
      
      And yes - I know you're talking about creation v evolution - I was just answering your direct question
      
      As for the rest - I'll let the evolutionists come out to play.

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Cool answer.

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      Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      well, I've seen many people (including myself) attempting to correct misconceptions & lies about evolution. But it is futile

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oh so in your view it is attempting to correct misconceptions. Ok

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2. 61

   ediggityposted 12 years ago

   I think a lot of the misconception and disagreement comes from the distinction between evolution and creation.  Evolution itself does not Theorize creation, instead it tries to account for a process in the living.

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thats the way I see it.

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3. 58

   jaydennia04posted 12 years ago

   about what

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      About what evolutionist do on the forum. Didn't you read the post? Helping hubbers write etc etc.

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4. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   pennyofheaven wrote:
   
   Perhaps I need to rephrase my question so it is more clearer "What do those who subscribe to evolution on this forum work hard at?"
   - - - - - = = - = -
   
     Beelzedad  wrote...
   They are trying to educate others, evidently.
   
   - - - = = = - = - = - =
   
   ME ...
       Identically ... carbon copy ...  mirror images of what creationist believe they are doing.
   
      And just like the other side of the argument ......
   
   Your version of truth is the only one.  Huh
   
   
      I happen to think that both sides have valid points

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      Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Okay, what's valid from the Creationists argument?

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         aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Simple.
         
         God made EVERYTHING!
         
         Scientists are just trying to find out how it all works.
         And doing a great job at it (mostly)!
         
         I have NO problem with that,at all!!

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            Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            you are spouting your belief - an irrational one

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               aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yes I am.
               
               Isn't that what we're supposed to do?
               
               Besides, I'm on topic, at least.

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                  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  on topic?  Oh, well, at least you admit your beliefs are irrational

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                     aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     irrational, maybe to you.
                     not to me.

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                        hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        or me

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         2. 58

            Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I have NO problem with that, either.
            
            Except, the god thingy, of course.

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      2. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You have heard it all before.
           Without a doubt, at some point in time, something  caused the universe to become! 
         
           And after the earth cooled down sufficiently, something caused  that first spark of life! 
            Let us begin by saying that whatever that was that caused it, created the end result.  This may have happened in a round about way? But it did happen this way!
         
           And there are beings that are much more intelligent that we will ever be that has interveined in the earths development. 
         
            And in my opinion, there is another dimension that our consciousness can and does venture into. This dimension may or may not be where these other beings are coming from.
         
            This is the outline.  Use your own choice of crayolas, and stay within the lines.

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         1. 58

            Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So far, so good.
            
             
            
            Sorry, but you simply don't know that, no one does.
            
            
            
            
            Yes, that is your opinion, and it is not substantiated by anything other than your own imagination.
            
               
            
            Yes, Crayolas.

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   2. 59

      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Me too

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5. 80

   Shadesbreathposted 12 years ago

   A lot of "creationists" and "evolutionists" believe there is some sort of binary relationship between God and evolution, like its an either-or scenario. So they "work" on trying to prove their side is right.
   
   The reason it never, ever works out for either side is because the two concepts have nothing to do with one another. Anyone who truly grasps evolutionary theory totally and completely understands this. So does anyone who truly grasps what it means to seek God and/or find spirituality.
   
   The only people arguing are the ones trying to convince themselves there is a simple answer regarding RELIGION (whether for or against).

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      simeonvisserposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      To be fair, I rarely see "evolutionists" try to show that evolution and a creator cannot go together. They know that the theory of evolution does not exclude such a beginning - it only accounts for the development of life. It is rather the creationists who need to maintain that God and evolution cannot go together because if that were true, the position of humans would no longer be as special as it would be in the creation story. I also think this is the source of that binary relationship you are talking about. For certain people such change of status for human beings is unacceptable.

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Does anyone ever really truly grasp anything?

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         Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         In the way I mean "truly," yes, they do. When I say "truly," I don't mean to possess 100% of all possible knowledge regarding a subject.
         
         To truly grasp evolutionary theory, one must understand the principles of it (natural selection via random mutation, environmental conditions, isolation, etc.), and then they must recognize the purpose of the theory, which is to assemble the evidence that appears to explain how modern species came about. The "truly" part of this understanding includes recognizing that the theory is not the complete answer to human life as far as meaning, values, spirit (if there is such a thing), and anything else related to human existence beyond providing description of how we arrived at our current physiological and cognitive state--and that information is still accumulating.  That is all evolutionary theory does. It has nothing to say about God. Period.
         
         To "truly" grasp God concepts is to understand the nature of humanity as it manifests in instantiations of the abstract, which includes kindness, love and humility but also includes frailty, fallibility, ignorance and pride, the latter few often being the cause of arguments about God in which no winners ever emerge--including God.

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         1. 59

            pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Oh I understand what you mean about truly grasp now.
            
            So how do you see creation and evolution as unrelated?
            
            Both concepts try to describe how we came into existence. That would mean they have common ground.
            
            Different ways of describing amongst various other things,  but creation and evolution are attempting the same thing..
            
            There approaches seem vastly different, yet are they really that separate?
            
            If we compared it to another process like the human body it might make what I am pointing to clearer.  The differences between what is physical (body parts) and what is invisible (mental parts) is vastly different but they are still part of what makes us human.

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6. 77

   DoubleScorpionposted 12 years ago

   I have a question...Since according to the bible...god didn't create the sun, moon and stars until the fourth day...how can we say that he created everything in 6 days as we understand time. It is entirely possible that god did if fact create everything through the evolution process...is this possible?  Now this is just my opinion...Is it possible that god is in fact...the God of the Christians, Allah, the Laws that is Science, the energy of storms, and a list of various other things...we seem to get so caught up in the name we seem to forget what we are actually believing in...one thing is for certain...somehow or another we are here...how about we start enjoying that fact and figure out where we are going, instead of arguing over where we came from...

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      pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That is the possibility I entertain yes.

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I like to think about things in their simplest of forms when possible just to get an overview.
      
         If I awake out in the middle of a snow covered field, the only way for me to know what direction that I was traveling in is to look at the tracks that I made yesterday, and project that path forward into the future to see where my destination is.  It doesn't matter what is lying beyond the trees from which I had exited.  More important is what lies beyond the trees to which I am bound.

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         pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What if the tracks you made have been covered up in snow? (We don't have snow in my parts so I don't know if that can actually happen but just in case, it does it makes my point) Wouldn't it make sense that where you are is all that matters?

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            Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You are correct, where you are is all that matters in the moment. 
               And if you are happy to stay there.  But if you know you were going somewhere, and it is important that you do go somewhere? 
              It would be nice to know where you are going.
            
              We don't want to feel like we are lost in the WalMart parking lot .. in the dark.

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               pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yes knowing where we are going is useful.
               
               What we do with our moment is what I am pointing to. If we spend that moment in time looking back and looking forward we sometimes miss that moment. If we are fully in that moment (not allowing the past or the future to influence our actions), more often than not, this will light the pathway and the next steps we can chose (or not) to take.

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                  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Very valid point.
                  Sometimes I am a bit too destination oriented.
                  
                     As you say;  If we can relax in the monent long enough we may find that we don't have to go anywhere,  or someplace other than where we first thought that we wanted or needed to go.
                  
                    I knew that  then forgot.  HMMmmmm

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                  Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That's exactly how you find the Grail. Of course, finding it, and admitting to oneself that it has been found are usually two different obstacles. The problem being is that we look for a material grail, when it is totally spiritual.

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                     pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes agree.

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      habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Great post!

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   4. 80

      Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well, that gets into religion. Whoever controls the past, controls the future.
      
      This is why religion is so often created or exploited by men seeking power. The creation myth and subsequent histories in religion shape the attitudes of the people who follow it. From that history comes the momentum and motivation for future action.
      
      You don't have to think very hard about the modern world to see that at work.

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7. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Jerami wrote:...
   And there are beings that are much more intelligent that we will ever be that has interveined in the earths development. 
   
   Beelzedad wrote ...
   Sorry, but you simply don't know that, no one does.
   - - - - - -
   
     Yet there are a vast number of people that do believe it based upon  warehouse-es  of archaeological evidence.  Which you can refuse to even consider. That is your right.
   =========================================================
   
   
   
   Jerami wrote:...
   And in my opinion, there is another dimension that our consciousness can and does venture into. This dimension may or may not be where these other beings are coming from.
   - -
   Beelzedad wrote ..., that is your opinion, and it is not substantiated by anything other than your own imagination.
   
   - - -
      Again, there are vast numbers of people that would agree with me on this issue.   If you choose to not recognize
   (or to see) the evidence that is right before your own eyes.
    
     What you can not see;  you can't see, That May not be your fault?

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      Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for sharing your fantasies again, Jerami.

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      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You say potato bread     I say     apple pie ?
         
             You see what you see        I see what I see ?

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            Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No Jerami, no one sees your vast amount of imaginary archeological evidence.

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               Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I think evolution makes sense and carries a lot of evidence and I believe in anything until it's disproved. I believe in many myths, dinosaurs, and dragons, even if it’s just exist in my mind. Dreams can be real, but when it comes to a super natural God. It holds too many contradictions and fears to make enough sense to me in living in the here and now.

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