Judas Iscariot

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   Dave Mathewsposted 13 years ago

   Why is Judas Iscariot viewed as being guilty of betrayal and judged a sinner by Catholics?
   
   Christianity and the church teaches that Almighty God is all knowing. Christianity and the church also teaches that God through Jesus forgives all sin not just this sin or that sin, but all sin is totally forgiven,so long as the sinner repents.
   
   It also teaches that Almighty God has pre-chosen pre-destined the lifestyle and the path we are to follow. 
   
   Yes we have free choice, but ultimately, eventually, so long as we continue to believe in God and want His love too, we return to God's chosen path for us.
   
   This being the case, God and Jesus as the son of God, already knew the man known as Judas, knew his character, knew that God had chosen Judas to be the one to help fulfill Scriptural Prophesy.
   
   Also this would mean that God and Jesus had already put into play their plan for Judas to be the one to reveal to the High Priest who Jesus was, and it would also mean that God and Jesus already knew that Judas would repent of his actions, by returning the 30 pieces of silver to the High Priest and that He would hang himself because of his feeling guilty for delivering up Jesus whom he knew to be innocent of any wrong doing.
   
   If God knew Judas heart and knew that He was the one chosen to help fufill Scriptural Prophesy,and knew that He had repented his actions, hwo can Catholics judge him guilty of any wrongdoing?
   
   As Jesus hangs on the cross He prays: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."  Would this prayer of forgiveness not include Judas?

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree completely !
      
        I've ask myself, why was it even necessary for Judas to identify Jesus or even reveal where Jesus was going to be that night?
      
        Jesus was well known around the synagogue as he not?
      
        Any one could have followed them to where they were going to spend the night and identified him to the soldiers.
      
        The only reason that I can see for it having to be Judas would have been for some kind of moral lesson

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         Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Scripture had to be fulfilled to the letter and according to scripture, Jesus would be handed over by one close to Him.

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            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I guess that I missed that prophesy, but take your word for it.
              That would make sence.
              Any way   Judas had no choice but to do what he did.

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               Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, this prayer of forgiveness would include Judas.

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               couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I think this is where it starts to fall apart.  According to Scripture, we are all predestined.  But also according to Scripture, we have choices to make.  According to interpretation, the only choice we can make is the choice to ask for forgiveness and accept Jesus as Saviour.

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                  couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Additionally, why are only a certain amount of Jews going to Heaven?  Why, with a Creator who is passionately in love with his creations, would he intentionally leave millions of Jews to go to Hell?

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                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     To answer this last question.
                     
                       Why does the farmer only pick the bestest, ripest, biggest, basket of fruit to take to market as a representation of what his crop is going to look like ....  IF .. the market buyes his fruit.   when he has a field full of fruit not ready to be picked?
                     
                        The 144,000 are the "first fruit" unto the lord.
                     
                        The rest of the field also goes to market.

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                        couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        So you're saying we all go but the 144,000 are the chosen?  The best?  Hmmm.  I'd never heard that.

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                           Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           That is the way that I have always understood it.
                           I remember when I was a kid. My grandfather was a cotton farmer.
                           Each year he picked a sack of cotton, took it to market, it was graded, and that is what he got paid per pound for every lb. of cotton that came off of his propety.
                           
                              The quality of the first fruits is what the rest of the crop was graded by.
                              According to scripture there were 144,000 people that was presented to the Lord as the first fruits.
                              The rest of the crop goes to market when it is time. And will be compensated for according to the value of the first fruits.
                           
                              That is the way that I understand it any way.

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                              just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I agree with you. You put it very clearly though. Good job.

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                                 Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thank you.
                                 I guess city folks don't naturally understand the concept of first fruits.
                                 
                                    After the first fruits then comes the main harvest.
                                 
                                   In the old days before automated cotton pickers, we picked it by hand. Got paid 3 cents a pound from the farmer for picking it.
                                 
                                    A few weeks after the first picking was finished,  we gleaned the field. Those cotton bowls that were late opening. And any cotton fragments that were left on the bowls during first harvest were pulled, bowl and all.  This paid 2 cents a lb.
                                 
                                    This is the same concept as described in scripture.
                                   First fruits   then  1st resurrection (Main harvest)  and then the gleaning of the field (second resurrection).
                                      After this, it was common to burn the dead plants or plow it all under , allowing the nutrients  to return to the soil and ready for spring planting.
                                      There seems to be some similarities here.

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                           Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Every human has the same option be saved and end up in heaven through ones faith and belief in Jesus OR don't believe and end up in the Lake of Fire with Lucifer. It's that simple.

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                              philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I agree.  But your argument that Judas repented is not valid.  There was no repentance on his part.  Compare Judas life with Peter's.  One betrayed Jesus, the other denied ever knowing him.  Peter was broken over this and truly repented and Christ forgave him.  The scripture makes is very clear that Judas didn't repent of his sin.  If he had, Christ would have forgiven him.

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                                 Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 See: KJV. MATTHEW:27:3 read the King James Version of the Bible

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                                    philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    dave, i understand what the KJV says, but you have to look at the greek word in the N.T.  i'm not a greek scholar whatsoever but you have to look at the root word here.  there's many translations in English that don't convey the more "drilled down" meaning of the greek word...anyways, I think you are fighting an uphill  battle with defending Judas and his actions, he betrayed the Son of God, now that's not something you want to do nor defend.  respectfully, think your theology of scripture is way off here.  I do respect your defense of the Christian Faith and what you are doing, great job.  But, again, you are interjecting something the scripture doesn't teach, that Judas actually repented of his sin of betrayal.  Great to chat with you.  Blessings.

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                                       Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       No I do not. The fact of the matter is KJV. MATTHEW: 27:3 states that Judas Repented. My Dictionary Reference is Webster's New World Dictionary and the origin of Repent is French and Latin, not Greek. Your point is mute because only Jesus has the option not you, not me, only Jesus.

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                                          philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          he repented and then he hung himself...that doesn't sound like the burden of his sin was given over to Christ and His forgiveness...

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                     Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     The jewish people the Hebrews of the day crucified Jesus and denied Him by refusing to recognize Him as the true Messiah. They are still awaiting the day of His First arrival. If A Jewish person repents this decision and asks Jesus for forgiveness they will receive it.

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                        philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Dave, where in the scripture did Judas ask for forgiveness for what he had done?

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                           Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           See: MATTHEW:27:3

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                              philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              ok, got it.  "seized with remorse" doesn't add up to repentance.  There's a difference here.  If he felt forgiven, why did he hang himself?

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                                 Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 King James Version:
                                 MATTHEW: 27:3      "Then Judas which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, 'repented'  himself

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                                 philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 the normal greek word for repentance in the Bible is metanoeo.  the verb used in this passage is metamelomai, a verb that isn't used very often.  It means a "change of mind or feeling of regret".  That's the difference.

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It does not fall apart here. Ask and you're forgiven, don't ask and you are not. That is a simple option yet still an option.

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                     couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes.  This I understand.  But why create the option to begin with?  Why create the challenge, the task, the possibility of failure?

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                        philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        great question.  i know that the scripture talks about free will, that we are not robots, that we have the choice of following God and His plan for our lives or not.  This discussion has headed toward the discussion of "freewill" and "predestination".  I guess the simple answer is the love between a man and his wife.  both have the ability to love one another, in other words, they are not robots that have no choice.  God gives us the ability to make our own decisions, and he will not interfere with them.

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                           Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           
                           This is "MY" number one most important question to ask God when we are finally face to face. "Why did you permit man Free will, free choice?" Why not simply say I created you, to love me and so I could love you. God's love is unconditional as God is love, why could he not have created man the same, I mean we are created in His image, why not with His capacity to love free of conditions.

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      kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      God the Father has already forgiven all, but those who are still ignorant will never know that so the condemnation which they heap upon themselves will remain...
      
      Judas is a good example, though he was sorry for his action his sorrow did not lead to him to repent...change the way he thinks.
      
      So is it with many here and now... though they are genuinely sorry for their action while in the flesh...nevertheless this sorrow must be with the knowledge of the Father otherwise it is useless to relieve the burden of Sin.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         On the contrary, Judas returns to the chief priest and returns the 30 pieces of silver paid him refusing to keep it knowing that he has handed over the Messisah an innocent man to the chief priest. See: Matthew: 27:3,6-10 Therefore we know that Judas repented his actions. Since The Father and Jesus had pre-selected Judas as the one to fulfill the scriptures, he cannot be held accountable.

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            Greek Oneposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            why did he kill himself?

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               Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               conscience, but it makes no difference to the points I am expressing.

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            kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            We have a different understanding of the term repent...note if Judas repentance was not the one that relieved him of the burden of Sin otherwise he would not have taken his own life....
            
            
            There is a repentance that frees one from the bondages of death.

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               Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Your statement has no relevence the fact is He did repent and only God can judge the trueness and sincereity not man.

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                  couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I understand what you're saying, both kess and DM, but I agree with kess.  I believe in repentance of wrongdoing.  This is the repentance that sets us free but only if we are enlightened to the point of recognizing that we do not need to live our lives in guilt and misery.  We only have to set right our ways and our thinking.  Many people, Christians included, are 'saved', have repented, have even made physical amends for their wrongdoing, but they hold on to the guilt and misery.  So, in essence, they don't really believe at all.  If they did, they would 'feel' the relief.  I know this is a bit off track.

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                     Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Please read MATTHEW: 27:3 King James Version of The Holy Bible your denial of repentance becomes mute.

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                        couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        As I said, I went a bit off track.  The argument of whether or not Judas repented is cleared up in Matthew.  I said I believe repentance is good for the soul.  But it is useless if we don't believe we can be changed by it.  Unfortunately, Judas didn't live long enough to be relieved of his shame.

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                           Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           couturepopcafe: Since Jesus was and is God, and since Jesus died for the remission of all sin, and since Jesus asked forgiveness of all who sinned against Him at the time of His crucifixion I believe Judas is in heaven and you will see him there.

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                              Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Okay, so Jesus was not a man, he was a god. I got that.
                              
                              
                              
                              Whoa! Hold the phone, you just claimed Jesus was a god, so obviously he could not have died, unless you are going to claim that gods can die.
                              
                              How does a god die, Dave? Please explain.

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                                 Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Jesus is God. Jesus took on the persona of man inorder to live amongst mankind in order to fulfill the writings of the Hebrew Prophets. When Jesus was crucified as a man His fleshly body died but His Godly Spirit still lived.

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                                    Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    By "persona" I'm assuming you refer to him wearing a man suit, a false body, a charade. Hence, Jesus never died, he just took off his body suit and left it behind, he never died, according to your own words.

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                                       Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       The persona that you preceive is you, is wearing the same kind of body suit.

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                                          Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          No, it isn't, because I'm not a god in a body suit, I'm just a man. Huge difference, Jerami.

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                                             Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             I didn't say you were god,  wearing a body suit,
                                             
                                               The PERSONA  that you preserve yourself to be. IS wearing a body suit. This is all that I said.
                                             
                                                So to take that cincept just a tiny bit further should not be that difficult to comprehend.
                                             
                                                Would love to stay and converse but I gotta go lay some vynal flooring to pay some bills.
                                             
                                               Later.

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                                       Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       
                                       
                                       You are nit picking at my words. The body died. The spirit lives on as does mine.

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                                          Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          I am not nit picking, I am trying to gain clarification.
                                          
                                          The body may have died, but it was not the body of a man, it was a false body for a god who used it to walk the earth.
                                          
                                          Hence, Jesus was a god who donned a mans body. The body may have died, but Jesus as a god never died.

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                                             Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             OK I see your point. Just as I am a spirit living in a body. My body will die, but I as a spirit will live on. Thank you for finally understanding.

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                                    Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Jesus is God. Jesus took on the persona of man inorder to live amongst mankind in order to fulfill the writings of the Hebrew Prophets. When Jesus was crucified as a man His fleshly body died but His Godly Spirit still lived.
                                    
                                    
                                    Mr Matthews, et al, You are ALL "God" (forgive my use of that ba`al term.). You were born with the persona to fulfill the same thing: The Will.
                                    1. Salvation (body-mind)
                                    2. Knowledge of the Truth (spirit)
                                    
                                    Expressed in complete totality of spirit-body-brain by doing one thing: Love the Father; your neighbor; yourself -this fulfills the law (mind-body) and the prophets (spirit).
                                    
                                    In no single written verbiage before or after Y`shua's events does HE ever say to worship him. In fact he forbade it and commanded all to love the Father. Beside that, my original point --if THE Spirit that raised Him up (note it was the Spirit who did it, not he himself) then you also are a brother to him, one of many brothers...
                                    
                                    I think --like I tell most 'believers'-- the book has jaded many a person and quenched many a spirit. The Hebrew people agrued with the Jews (pagan teachers of the Law) that the Law and the words written in the books of it could save them by reciting daily and rejoicing over them. Notice anything similar to their actions and people today?
                                    
                                    James.

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                                       Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       James: You speak the truth. I am spirit, and The Holy Spirit of God is my Brother Jesus is my Brother and Almighty God is my Father.

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            couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hmmm.  Since we are all preselected for certain paths, none of us are accountable?  We are just made to do bad things (essentially) but then need to ask forgiveness for doing what we were made to do without our consent, knowledge, or power in any way?

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               Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Where did you get this nonsense from. Our paths are determined, but we have free will whether to follow or not. Eventually though we will reach the end of the path by whatever means and direction we follow the destination is the same.

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                  couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I see and I agree.  Our paths are likely determined by our natural abilities and inclinations.  Where they come from is up to debate, whether one calls it God, consciousness, talent, genetics, or anything else. 
                  
                  I was trying to point to a possible flaw in the Christian thinking, with respect.  I agree our paths may be predetermined and we can certainly stray from that path and never meet our true potential.  I don't get how the Bible tells us we have free will to choose (which has nothing to do with our path or potential except when choosing that path to our potential) but sets us up for failure if we do not ask for forgiveness from Jesus, which according to Scripture is the only way to get to the Father.

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         couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         According to Scripture, God the Father has not forgiven all.  Only those who are covered by the Blood have sins which are invisible to Him.  He has not forgiven, He has put in place an option, sort of like the healthcare option.  If you buy it, you don't go to jail.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            
            
            Scripture tells us that Jesus died for the remission of sin, not just one or two, not just selected ones but all. True one must ask Jesus for forgiveness but this is the only pre-requisite.

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      philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Because Judas never repented of his sin, that's why.  There is a difference between worldly sorrow and true repentance.  Hope this helps.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         No it is no help at all, for the bible states that Judas repented.

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            philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            show me the passage, let's look at it

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Dave, Cecilia Beltran has an awesome hub on this very question.
      
      http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Strange-Jes … l-of-Judas

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   SirDentposted 13 years ago

   All sins have been pardoned by the death of Jesus on the cross.  Those who have recieved this pardon are free from the bondage of sin.  Those who refuse are still in bodnage.
   
   A pardon isn't a pardon unless it is accepted.  A man on death row can be pardoned by the governor of a state, but if he refuses the pardon, he will still be executed and put to death.

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      couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So what happens to all those who died before Christ?

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         They were covered under a diferent explination.

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            couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, they had a different covenant.  True.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Those who died before Christ were given the opportunity to accept Christ or not when he was in the grave.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      SirDent: If pardoned by the Governor of the state for the crime committed, the person is free to go. The state cannot execute him that is unlawful.

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   lovelypaperposted 13 years ago

   You know, you've really got me thinking. I always assumed Judas was going to hell.

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      couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Since Judas never read the Bible, he is going to hell according to Scripture.  No one knows if he followed the instructions in the Bible which say one must confess with his mouth and recognize Jesus as the Saviour.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You are really grasping at straws here. How could Judas read a Bible a Book that did not exist until near 100 years or more after Jesus was dead The bible didnot exist, only the scriptures of the prophets existed at the time of Jesus and Judas.

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            couturepopcafeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That's my point.  So what did he do?

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            My goodness Dave, you've stumbled upon one of most interesting contradictions of your religion. I'll make sure to remember your words for future reference and will quote them when necessary. Thanks! 

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               Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Beelzedad: If you plan on quoting me on anything, make certain that you quote me within the exact context of the conversation that I made the quote and also do not forget to quote whom I made the quote to.  You have a really bad habit of taking things out of context, and then twisting them to agree with your way of thinking which to others appears twisted too.
               
               A statement was made about Judas not receiving forgiveness, because Judas had not read the Bible Scriptures to know to ask for forgiveness through Jesus. My correction that I made was that The Bible did not exist at the time of Judas only Holy Scripture from the prophets, therefore there was no Bible for Judas to read at that time.

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                  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  No, I don't Dave, please don't fabricate stories simply because you're unable to explain your extraordinary claims in any coherent or logical manner.
                  
                  
                  
                  You'll notice that my response to you does not change your statement in any way, shape or form, Dave.
                  
                  Your complaint is entirely misplaced and appears to be little more than an emotional display of immaturity on your part.

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                     Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I quote Bible Scripture. It is you who considers Bible scripture a fabrication of your idea of the truth. How is my claim that The Holy Bible did not exist at the time of Jesus, become misplaced or immature. Fact is Fact. Jesus read and quoted from Holy Scriptures of the Prophets, not the Holy Bible.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Why would Judas be condemned to hell if he was carrying out that which Almighty God and Jesus as "Son of God" had assigned to him so that the scriptures cold be fulfilled?
      
      Why would Judas be condemned to hell after he had repented of his part by returning back the 30 pieces of silver to Caiaphas personally admitting he had turned over an innocent man. Matt:27:3-4 ?
      
      Why would Jesus final prayer of forgiveness not cover a repentant Judas, even after he hung himself out of remorse for his actions toward Jesus?

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Jerami wrote:
     That is the way that I have always understood it.
   I remember when I was a kid. My grandfather was a cotton farmer.
   Each year he picked a sack of cotton, took it to market, it was graded, and that is what he got paid per pound for every lb. of cotton that came off of his propety.
   
      The quality of the first fruits is what the rest of the crop was graded by.
      According to scripture there were 144,000 people that was presented to the Lord as the first fruits.
      The rest of the crop goes to market when it is time. And will be compensated for according to the value of the first fruits.
   
      That is the way that I understand it any way.
   
   = = = = = = =
   
   getitrite wrote ...
   
     What kind of God would create---then discriminate against that creation?  What a cruel, heartless, ignorant God.
   
   Very unbecoming of any sensible deity.
   = = = = = =   
   
      What the heck are you talking about,
   
      How in the world did you come up with that remark from anything that I said in the post that you commented to?
   
       I hope you feel better soon.

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      getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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         just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Just curious, do you really not get it, or is this just you playing devil's advocate?

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            getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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               just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I don't get prophesy myself, and I don't trust people too far with it, but I was told that the great crowd referenced after that is talking about the rest of us. Whoever the 144,000 are I think they're probably pretty special so they won't include me. I'm not big on crowds, but I don't think I will mind being in that one. If I haven't gotten it too wrong in this lifetime and I make it. Which I think I will. Call me a heretic, but I think you've got a good chance too.

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                  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It is impossible to even begin to understand prophesy without knowing   "THE  SECRET".
                    There are timeframes written within all of these prophesy.
                  
                    Without  knowing  "THE  SECRET"  we have no understanding of prophesy.  If we have no understanding of prophesy; the meaning of scripture is obscured.

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                     just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Hi Jerami. So, do you think all scripture is obscured, or simply scripture talking about the return of Christ? Oh, and what's the secret? Not sure I folllw that.

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                        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Is there anything ;  let me emphasize, ANYTHING, that we can study and understand NOT having a time line that goes with it ?
                        
                          When you get older your can not understand anything about your own Childs life without understanding when.  When he/she wrecked the car, the bicycle, fell out of a tree when they were 6,  or climbed a mountain at 26.
                        Without a clear reference of time you yourself can not understand your own life.
                        How much more important  is it to have a reference to time when attempting to understand
                        World History? 
                        Imagine trying to understand World history and not having a timeframe.
                           In our mind, how would we separate the horses and chariots from the tanks and airplanes;  bows and arrows fighting against  M-16s.  and laser guided missiles.
                          We have to have a sense of when these things happened or the message is obscured.
                        
                        The same is true with prophesy.
                         
                          God would not have given us prophesy without giving us a means to understand them! 
                        It is obvious that these references of time that are mentioned in prophesy is not the same length of time as we understand it here in this physical realm.
                          So why is this an unexplored issue when attempting to understand  prophesy??
                        The answer to this dilemma is hiding in plain sight and it seems that no one wants to consider it when it is pointed out?
                        The answer to that last question is that they know that understanding prophesy threatens their existing belief system.

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                           just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           So, send me to a hub you wrote that explains your philosophy on what you think our belief should be on the this topic. i am sincerely curious.

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                              Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              This was the first one that I wrote. I have no talents as a writer, and haven't read these hubs sense posting.
                                Hope it makes some sense to YA.
                              
                                "A day = a year NOT"     was my attempt to explain how to decipher a prophetic time = our earthly time.
                              
                                  At least 1650 years of ignoring these verses has had its effects upon the way that we understand scripture.
                              
                                Our own preconceived ideas as to what we are about to read has blinded us to this which is hidden right in front of us,
                              RIGHT   IN  PLAIN  SIGHT.

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                              Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              
                              Please go to the Hub site of Dave Mathews. There you will find my hub explaining Jusas innocence, and my reasoning why.

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                                 just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 OK, but I'm in agreement with you on this one.  I really feel sorry for the guy.  He must have been in horrible anguish after he realised what he had done.

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                                    Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Had God or Jesus told Judas everything about all the circumstances, Judas might have not died that day, but God only reveals that which is truly necessary.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Jeremi: "getitrite" One of the Anti-Christ jumped all over your response. He has a bad habit of interjecting himself like that. Jeremi do not get upset, "getitrite" has little manners and even less sincerity or tact.

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   thirdmilleniumposted 13 years ago

   Would it surprise you that there is forgiveness for everybody; murderers, rapists, child-molesters, scamsters. There will not be anybody who will not be forgiven at second coming. EVERYBODY born into the world will lead a peaceful life during Jesus' rule on the Earth. The 1,44,000 are the assistants (ruling class) to Jesus.
   
   There will be some kind of reprisals for sinners (well, that frankly includes you and me) but only God and Jesus know what it is going to be and how it is going to be executed. But be sure it is not going to be eternal nor is it going to be fire or some equally gross punishment.

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      philzgrillposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      thirdmillenium, you're way off base (respectfully)...

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         thirdmilleniumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Not really my friend. I m preparing an explanation FROM THE BIBLE  to support my theory. But is it not something I alone believe in. Millions do. It is not a doctrine of any church. No church will accept this outlandish (for them) contention.  One of their mainstay is to perpetuate this lie about hell and hellfire in order to keep the flock under their thumb.

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         SpanStarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I have to go with you here philzgrill

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      just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I like your way of thinking. Very merciful.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

   I sincerely apologize if the verbiage sounded harsh.
   My studies/active application of theology (sensationalism) and equation (sciences) has brought me to a strange place it seems. A good place, I believe, shedding the skin of both. Unfortunately it seems now, I am under attack by former theists (aka atheists) and scientists. So, should anything I type seem inappropriate, please do not think it is personal...
   
   James.

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