Prophecy Interpretation

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  1. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    Zarm - that was a well thought out exegesis of the problem as viewed from a secular point. If you wrote all that off the top of your head - I would say you have also given it a lot of thought. I would further say you listed almost all the possible options - except one.

    Repent and Humble ourselves to God.

    I do not say this based on pure speculation - nor do you need to accept it as such - because in your analysis you said this:

    """""Pretty much what you have described is neo-conservative ideology translated into theology"""


    But that is not what I have done at all. The theology precedes the neo-conservative view - by ages - and no where in Neo-conservatism, do they refer to these scriptures as their basis. Could it not be they are in fact taking the approach their own Conservative Views demand? And as a result, are playing their own part in this end time moment?

    I would like to point out something you may not have ever considered. The year 1517.

    That was the year that two very interesting things happened. One in the East and the Other in the West.

    In the East - the Islamic Ottomans after destroying the East Roman (Byzantium) Empire - moved the Islamic Caliphate to Constantinople/Istanbul - and ruled there from 1517 until 1924. (Completing Islam's 800 year quest to acquire the Entire Eastern Roman Empire)

    In the West, in October 1517, Luther nailed his Thesis - and began the Reformation - all modernity is recorded to and from that point. It was a time of restoration to the first century principles of the Bible. Justification by Faith etc etc.

    Just a few years before in 1492, the Islamic Moors were thrown out of Spain, and a month later - Columbus sets sail for the New World.

    These two events, mark the historical beginning of the decline of the Muslim Empire and its conquests - at exactly the point where it should have continued to advance.

    Quirk of history - or quirk of God?

    Both men, believed they were directly inspired from God and that they were living out a very important purpose for the end time plans of God.

    In "Book of the Prophecies" (also known as the "The Prophecies of Christopher Columbus", written by him between his 3rd and 4th voyages - he says so - and he also says the Book of Isaiah proved to him there was another land mass yet discovered )


    taken from:
    "Columbus and His World" by Delno C. West

    """Our model of Columbus as Renaissance scientist, adventurer
    and mariner does not include an obsession with eschatology.
    Nevertheless, he believed that God had called him for a special
    mission of apocalyptic importance.  As he carefully reminded his
    sovereigns in a letter dated 7 July 1503, he had received a
    vision while yet a young man in which the Holy Spirit spoke
    directly to him in these words:

         God ... will cause your name to be wonderfully
         proclaimed throughout the world ... and give you the
         keys of the gates to the ocean which are closed with
         strong chains.(4)

         The driving motivational force in his life was ultimately
    his role in God's scheme for history:

         Who doubts that this light was from the Holy Spirit ...
         whom with rays of marvelous clarity it consoled ...
         with forty-four books of the Old Testament and four
         Evangelists, with twenty-three epistles of those
         blessed apostles, encouraging me to proceed, and
         continuously, without stopping a moment, they
         encouraged me with great haste.(5)

         Columbus' spiritual desire was to spread the Gospel and
    initiate a new crusade to recapture the Holy site of Solomon's
    Temple.  It is impossible to calculate when this mission became
    incorporated into a broader eschatological framework, but he
    implies that such thinking occurred early in his career and that
    these dreams were a part of his arguments before the king and
    queen.

    ....he believed the key to his success was the gift of knowledge given to him by the Holy
    Spirit.  The gift of understanding, spiritualis intellectus,
    enables the recipient to penetrate revealed truth, and it
    intensifies one's faith so that all things ultimately are seen
    through faith.(10)  Columbus never claimed to be a prophet and
    only recorded two visions in which he believed God communicated
    directly with him.  Neither of these visions were revelations;
    rather they were words of comfort and encouragement.  He believed
    that he had received the charismatic gift of spiritualis
    intellectus which enlightened his mind to enable him to
    understand the hidden mysteries of prophetic texts""""

    Zarm - the discovery of the new world - instantly began the imbalance between Islam and Christianity. The force of these 2 events - culminated in the abolition of the Islamic Caliphate by the West in 1924.


    Concerning Luther, he believed he was a major player in the end times. He realized the hold the Catholic Church had on the secular governments of the world. He later came to realize that it - the Papacy - was the whore of Revelation 17 riding the Beast  - and he understood this through Prophecy. Rightly or wrongly - his actions led directly to the liberation of the masses from the Religion of Catholicism as then practiced.

    These several events, saved the Western world from Islam.

    As a result - the West, out grew, out produced and out thought Islam.

    When Martin Luther faced trial (at the Diet of Worms) he was asked, "Where will you be, Martin Luther, when the princes of Germany, and all your friends and family forsake you?"

          "Then, as now,I will be where I have always been: in the hands of Almighty God." 

    *****

    History is a really funny thing. One may see the hand of Almighty God - or one may see the hand of misguided zealots or neo-conservatives so called.

    I would suggest that if one sees the hand of zealots in the conditions of our present circumstance - then little is left except to eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow we die.

    But if one sees the Hand of God, then we should repent before Him, ask Him to justify us by faith alone in Jesus Christ - and wait for Him to delivers us - in ways we can not imagine.

    Since 1924 - when the world was handed to the West we have been on an endless orgy of increasing decadence and apostasy from the God of our Fathers.

    But if we repent - there is nothing to say we can not have - a 1517 - tomorrow.

  2. topstuff profile image59
    topstuffposted 11 years ago

    Prophecy Teacher
    Never take all these haps to heart,you are highy motivated against muslims.No worries.Now what has started in the world,will take a longer time to settle dowm.Roam was not built in a day.
    Islamic empire ended....
    British empire ended........
    and how long American empire can survive afterall...
    You also read what osama says,strange.im a muslim and i dont care what he says.Who is he?He is not an islamic hero.Who introduced him to the world?Who used him first for the sole american purposes and  declared a terrorist afterwads?
    You said islam is wrong.Point out what wrong you see in islam,can you?im here to fully satisfy you.Ask me and ill answer your each and every question though im not any islamic scholar.Please stop blaming and portraying islam in a wrong way.

  3. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    I am not out to debate the merits of Christianity as opposed to Islam or vice versa. I have not compared the religions theologically. But your statements show you do not understand the differences between us. You and I do not believe in the same Jesus and my religion is based on that one issue completely. (we can never agree, without agreeing on Him, and we never will)

    I do not believe the prophets Moses, etc - ever taught Islam. There are stark and irreconcilable differences between Islam and Christianity. Using the same words, is not the same religion. So no, we can not agree.

    Never the less...

    I am not out to promote bigotry. In fact, I have laid the blame for the state of affairs - not on the Muslims - but upon ourselves as Christians and moral people here in the West - otherwise, there would be no need for repentance. I am not representing Islam as "I" see it - I am representing Islam as the Fundamental Islamists see it. It is only their quotes I use. It is they that say modern Islam is perverted. And it is they who are attempting to return it back to what they say is its origins. And then they tell us what those origins are.

    I quote the Koran's Prophecies, and the Hadith - and show the Parallel in the Bible. I did not misquote those verses nor misrepresent them. In many cases I use Islamic sites.

    As such, you are taking my words to mean more than I am saying - in an attempt to protect your view from this perceived slight. One that does not exist in my words.

    But, if you still disagree, you are welcome to show where I am misrepresenting Islam and show me my bigotry. I am a Westerner and a Christian; and I can easily enough miss things.

    But whatever you do, please, let's not debate the religion. We are debating the prophecies and history here, as it pertains to the prophecies.

    Surely, as a Muslim, you believe in the day the Mahdi and Isa will come and set up Islam as the law of the world and rule it in Justice. If so, I don't want to live in that world. If we both believe they are coming, is it bigotry for me to point it out?

    1. profile image0
      RFoxposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I find it interesting that you assume I am Muslim.
      I am not Muslim.
      I am Buddhist.
      I choose to study all the worlds religions so I can come to an understanding of others faiths.

      In your many posts you talk about the Islamic movement being the real anti-christ in end of days. You use quotes that compare Islam to HIV (a communicable disease). How is this not bigoted?

      It is one thing to discuss personal beliefs and another to attack others faiths.
      Many religions do not believe Jesus was the son of God. The Jewish faith would be one of those.
      (I completely understand Christian faith and Catholicism. I was raised in a Christian society.)

      And I don't wish to debate theology either.

      I just think we all need to understand when we are being prejudiced against other people from different backgrounds. And whether you wish to acknowledge it or not the views you have expressed here are prejudiced.
      (Don't just take my observations on this though. Ask other Hubbers if they feel your posts are prejudiced. Then you can get an idea of how your words translate to others.)

      I wish you all the best with your path in life. Now I must sleep. smile

  4. topstuff profile image59
    topstuffposted 11 years ago

    Without a complete context if we pickup some lines in between,the meaning changes.Some hadiths have their specific background and they cannt be understood without that.So is the Quran....
    Probably you have read or told many times a snipped verse of Quran that it says muslims to kill christians.

      ''slay them wherever you catch them" (Quran: 2:191)
    And it can only be understood by reading  the preceding and following verses.

  5. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    I apologize for the error, I assumed because you said this,

    """"Are these fundamental similarities not enough to allow acceptance to flow from both sides?"""

    that you were representing Islam.

    If I used a quote concerning HIV - It was unintentional; It must have been buried in someone else's words. I did not see it. I'll go back and look for it.

    You mentioned,

    "In your many posts you talk about the Islamic movement being the real anti-christ in end of days." 

    And you suggest that is bigoted.

    But I am not talking about Islamic - I am talking about Islamists. Islamists (the term for radicals) are the ones attempting to re-establish the Caliphate based on their Primitive (or Fundamentalist) views of Islam. That is dangerous.

    I attempted to show where this movement is worldwide and very strong. I attempted to show that this movement in this Fundamental form - is what brings the world to ruin, according to the Bible. But even if I did not have the Bible, I would be able to make the SAME conclusion from common sense. In fact, many Western Columnists, Politicians and Think Tanks, have arrived at the same conclusion independently. I merely show the Bible predicts those conclusions.

    I believe you are mistaking Muslims - for Islamists who say they are Muslims. It is not for me to differentiate - I am talking only about the Radicals as they proclaim themselves to be. (I know, it is hard to split all these hairs and have a conversation)

    But - if a person has to be infinitely specific in every detail of what they say in every nuance - in order not to be misunderstood - or thought bigoted - no point could ever be made.

    We would not be able to talk about Nazi Germany like this.

    Germany started WW2.
    Germany killed the Jews.
    Germany conquered France.

    Something as simple as that - would rather have to be said like this.

    The German people did not start WW2. It was the Nazi party within Germany. The Nazis were elected to office - but it was not the people of Germany who elected them - it was only the Germans who were in the Nazi party. Millions marched in support of the Nazis, but only because they liked the flags. Women sent their children to Nazi schools but only because they liked the food. When war came, millions of Germans went to war, but none of them were really Nazis. Nazis killed the Jews; not Germans except the Germans who were Nazis. Anyone who says that Germans were involved is bigoted because Germans were Lutherans and everyone knows Lutherans were Protestants. Protestants don't kill people and besides- the Nazis responsible for all this madness were killed at Nuremberg. All 20 of them.

    You are Buddhist. Should the people of Cambodia have stood up and proclaimed the evils of the few Khmer Rouge they saw killing people? While they were yet small? The KR was clear in what it was going to do if it got power. They did get power and half of Cambodia was murdered.

    Would it have mattered if the people warning the nation had reasoned it out as opposed to seeing it in a Holy Book?

    What we are talking about here is the Prophecies in the Bible and the Koran which predict the same events from opposite views. The Bible view says it will suffer - the Koran view says it will conquer. The view that says it will conquer - is advocated daily by the most radical elements on the earth, the Fundamental Islamists.

    Are we foolish to talk about that? Even if we did not have the Bible - we could reason much of it from the Koran and Hadith. That's how the Islamists reason it.

    We are not debating the religion here - we are debating the religion's view of the end of the world - and we are reading what they are saying.

    And finally, the word Antichrist is found in the Bible and the Koran. In the Bible, the definiton is this,

    1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denys that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denys the Father and the Son.

    This was written 500 years before Mohamed.

    Mohamed wrote 16 times that Allah has no Son.

    The Koran and the Hadith predict that an Islamic Saviour is coming who will kill anyone who says that Allah has a son. The Islamist say it everyday. And they want a Caliphate to exist over the entire Muslim world in preparation for him.

    Now they are either looney - or they are exceedingly dangerous. Their acts are horrific so I choose not to see them as looney. In my mind, I can not be a bigot for pointing it out.

    Goodnite to you as well RFox...

  6. profile image0
    RFoxposted 11 years ago

    There are extremists in every religion and just about every walk of life.
    Just because they shout the loudest does not mean they are in the majority.

    Christian extremists are just as bad as Islamic extremists. Do I need to remind you of the Bosnian War and the resultant genocide? In that case it was Christians wiping out Muslims.

    Fundamentalists from both sides have been around since the Bible and the Qu'ran were written.

    The Crusades began in 1096!

    This is the same old conflict that is still going on, only now everyone has guns and bombs and the internet to spread their hate mongering and intolerance.

    For these prophecies you speak of to come true the entire world and all the people in it must capitulate to the extremists and allow them to take over.
    Do you honestly believe the world's people are going to do this?

    The Nazis were extremists. They believed in religious genocide and world domination. How did that end?

    There are far, far more tolerant and rational people in the world (numbers wise) than there are extremists. And when push comes to shove numbers count.

    The end of days prophecy (and many other religious teachings) have been used for centuries to justify murder and war. This is no different.

    And you are preaching intolerance for an entire religion based on the actions of a minority of fundamentalist zealots.

    "But - if a person has to be infinitely specific in every detail of what they say in every nuance - in order not to be misunderstood - or thought bigoted - no point could ever be made."
    We must be specific and very careful about the words we use as they have a great impact on the world around us.
    It wasn't "Germany that killed the Jews", it was the Nazis who committed genocide against the Jewish people. This is an important distinction!


    We can never know what the future will hold. It is fluid and ever changing. The choices we make alter the course of our lives everyday. To base our actions today on a "possible future outcome" is irresponsible. We need to base our actions on what the situation is today, at this very moment. IMHO.

  7. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    RFox - you are making my argument for me, I would think. You are reasoning out why it can't happen, and it is happening in front of us daily.

    It is not an issue of current extremism versus other extremism extrapolated from all of past history.

    In your statement here """""""""Christian extremists are just as bad as Islamic extremists. Do I need to remind you of the Bosnian War and the resultant genocide? In that case it was Christians wiping out Muslims"""""""""""

    No. You do not have to remind me. But I should remind you that Christians went to the Muslims defense and stopped the Genocide. That doesn't make Christians superior (see how I must cover every base of possible offense against sensibilities) but it does mean your point about that subject is not compelling. In that case - it was a madman in a certain country. In the case we are discussing it is madmen in 40 countries.

    In your statement here """""""""""The Nazis were extremists. They believed in religious genocide and world domination. How did that end?"""""""""

    It ended with 45 million dead. And it didn't have to end that way. The same arguments were being made in that day. Poland will hold them. 6 weeks later they were gone by Germany and Russia. France will hold them - 5 weeks later gone . etc etc.....

    Winston Churchill warned Europe for 10 years. The way you described WW2 was not complete. Germany was not alone. Italy was fascist. Franco's Spain was Communist, and Hirohito's Japan was Emperor worship. And yet, all 4 forms of extremism destroyed the continents simultaneously.

    No one raised a hand - barely.

    Winston Churchill said that an appeaser is someone who feeds the crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. In 1938, the British peace movement and the media overwhelmingly supported Neville Chamberlain when he promoted a "peace process" with Adolf Hitler, and cheered wildly when he returned from Munich with "peace in our time". Six years later, 45 million people lay dead and Europe was in ruins.

    (But of course, I have to say the obligatory thing here. By posting this quote I am not calling you an appeaser. I am pointing out why the world was destroyed - in answer to your point - that no one would ever allow it. Yes they will)

    And here """""""""For these prophecies you speak of to come true the entire world and all the people in it must capitulate to the extremists and allow them to take over.
    Do you honestly believe the world's people are going to do this?"""""""

    Yes, I absolutely do believe it. History is my witness. And the newspapers tell us we are reliving history now. The world is sitting by now, and if president Bush had chosen another course - there is no doubt extremism would have spread much faster - and would have overtaken more governments than just Afghanistan and Iran.

    But I think we've said enough - from here we may part and disagree. I am not attempting to frustrate your points at every turn. You care and I understand that. It's a good thing to do. But I think you care too much for one side of the argument while minimizing the danger from the other. I am only a voice using words, but they are extremists cutting off heads and believe in the prophecies that are opposite of what I am saying.

    They do not care about my words. It is the extremists who are intolerant. And the peaceful Muslims are not standing up to them. There are no marches, there are no parades and there are no photographers.

    I am not "preaching" intolerance.

    I'm teaching awareness.

    imho

    pt

    1. profile image0
      Zarm Nefilinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are clever, but you are prejudiced PT, it is an inevitable outcome of holding to the perceived form of moral superiority that your type of belief in Jesus can and must give you against perceived enemies.  After-all, if Muslims were on the same level in your eyes, (as far as God's favor), then what would be the point of Faith in Christ?

      "Winston Churchill said that an appeaser is someone who feeds the crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

      Which is why "liberals" who believe in peace but who are very much willing to use violence may not be "appeasing" neoconservatives like Bush on the Congress floor for much longer if things do not change.  Liberals are well aware of this phenomenon, and are not nearly as "weak kneed" as some in our media would like to portray them.

      I should not have to point out to you that liberals started and executed the French Revolution, and you can see the bloodshed that happened there, when people turned on the oppressive aristocracy and the morally bankrupt clergy of that time that would not so much as lift a finger to help those under their thumb.  Eventually, the French achieved separation of Church and State and the Catholic Church's power was effectively neutered.  The Catholic Church has been whining about that one ever since. 

      I love it roll how Fox Media likes to portray The French nowadays as "appeasers" and other Americans who are liberal as "appeasers".  Liberals, whether they are French or not, are very much capable of destroying the crocodile rather than feeding it, whether it is a crocodile that resides WITHIN our own borders or one that resides without our borders.

      Hubris is always a weakness, especially when it is projected at one's own countrymen in a condescending manner that seeks to take away the civil liberties of all in the name of safety and security...

  8. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    The Battle between Islamist Persian Iran - and their goal to delegitimize the Arab Muslim states of the GCC - is being played out daily. Their goal is to bring the downfall of the Monarchies in order to bring about a more radical Government - more in tune with a Caliphate and Radical Islamist ideas.



    From Today's news.

    """A senior Gulf official on Thursday slammed an Iranian deputy minister for questioning the legitimacy of pro-Western Arab monarchies in the region, saying such remarks can only fuel tensions.

    Such suspicious comments do not at all help build trust... among states of the region. They can only stoke conflicts and drag the region into a cycle of dangerous crises," Gulf Cooperation Council Secretary General Abdurrahman al-Attiyah said in a statement received by AFP.

    He was responding to a statement by Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mohammadi in which he predicted the downfall of Arab monarchies in the Gulf.

    "Soon another crisis will grip the Persian Gulf area, and that is the legitimacy crisis of the monarchies and traditional systems in the region," Mohammadi was quoted by the semi-official Mehr news agency as saying.

    "The next crisis predicted to cover mainly the Persian Gulf is the crisis of legitimacy of the monarchies and traditional systems, which considering current circumstances cannot go on living," said Mohammadi""""

    Notice this seemingly innocuous phrase - ""traditional systems in the region""",

    Many of you probably missed it. What the Iranians, and not just the Jihadist, are talking about - is the complete dissolution of the individual Muslim states - and their replacement with states more in line with Islamist Ideology.


    You'll notice RFox - the GCC Commissioner is making the same argument you are.

    for questioning
    remarks can only fuel tensions
    Such suspicious comments do not at all help build trust
    only stoke conflicts
    drag the region into a cycle of dangerous crises

    he predicted the downfall of Arab monarchies in the Gulf.
    The next crisis predicted to cover mainly the Persian Gulf
    the legitimacy crisis of the monarchies and traditional systems in the region,
    which considering current circumstances cannot go on living,"""

    ***************


    BUT the problem is not one of semantics and words between Muslim neighbors - it is of power. Iran is not Bin Laden or a few terrorists - as some here make trifle of. It is a nation state of 100,000,000 people - ruled by Islamists.

    That is not a terrorist Organization - that is a Terrorist State.

    The Arab Sunnis are afraid of Shiite Iran

    They should be - look at this map - study closely the little pie charts
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/ … apfull.jpg

    So, in response, the Arab Sunnis have formed themselves into two power blocks - and allied themselves with the West - and have purchased more weapons in the last 4 years - than in the previous 20.

    Furthermore, there is a very great chance - that some sort of peace is about to happen in the Middle East - among the Arab Sunnis and Israel - in exchange for the bombing of Iran's Nuclear facilities - which they fear more than us.

    Israel has agreed to do it - in exchange for peace among her neighbors. That is why there is a flurry of peace initiatives this very day. If it is successful, that will bring Turkey, Egypt, and Jordan (which already have peace agreements) into a greater peace including Syria, Lebanon and Iraq.

    Here are the two Sunni Blocks poised against the Iranian Shiite Block (above)

    The Mediterranean Union
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MedU.png


    And the Gulf Cooperation Council
    http://content.answers.com/main/content … f7/GCC.PNG

  9. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    The formation of opposing Muslim blocks of power is not what Iran had in mind. They have been attempting to avoid it since the 1978 Islamic Revolution of Ayatollah Khomeini - which radicalized Iran.

       But because of their extreme belligerence - and the historical Sunni/Shia hate - it is as unavoidable now as has been in the past. The Sunnis and the Shia consider each other's religion to be apostate. The Shia have always been inferior in power to the Sunnis, ever since their Ali died 1300 years ago.

       The Sunni are not going to let Iran have the power of the Middle East - after 1300 years - thus the division. That's Geo-politics.

       Is that important? It's very important. Iran has caused to happen what 80 years of Pan Arabism has not been able to accomplish.

       Arab Unity.

       So what?

      I'll tell you so what. The Bible predicts that before the Caliphate - the Arab nations surrounding Israel will unify and then attack her when she is at peace with then.



    It's recorded in

    Psalm 83 -

    A song. A psalm of Asaph.

    1 O God, do not keep silent;
           be not quiet, O God, be not still.

    2 See how your enemies are astir,
           how your foes rear their heads.

    3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
           they plot against those you cherish.

    4 "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation,
           that the name of Israel be remembered no more."

    5 With one mind they plot together;
           they form an alliance against you-

    6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
           of Moab and the Hagrites,

    7 Gebal, [a] Ammon and Amalek,
           Philistia, with the people of Tyre.

    8 Even Assyria has joined them
           to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.
           Selah

    9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
           as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,

    10 who perished at Endor
           and became like refuse on the ground.

    11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
           all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,

    12 who said, "Let us take possession
           of the pasturelands of God."

    13 Make them like tumbleweed, O my God,
           like chaff before the wind.

    14 As fire consumes the forest
           or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,

    15 so pursue them with your tempest
           and terrify them with your storm.

    16 Cover their faces with shame
           so that men will seek your name, O LORD.

    17 May they ever be ashamed and dismayed;
           may they perish in disgrace.

    18 Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD—
           that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.


    ***********

    This war has never happened. Here is a map of the Arabic Sunni Nations
    http://theisraelreport.com/Images/Map_o … ntries.png

    Look familiar??

  10. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    You don't have a clue do you. Was it the US who overthrew the democratic gov of Iran in '53 or vice versa. Who created Saddam Hussein and goaded him into attacking Iran and a cost of millions of lives, the US or Iran.
    Who created and props up these Monarchy dictatorships - the US or Iran. Israel will never have peace in the Middle East unless they stop stealing Palistinian land, which they are not going to do. Israel will make deals with totaltarian monarchies - you bet. If Israel bombs Iran your gas is going to go to 15 bucks a gallon. You ought to get out more.

    1. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
      Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'm just the piccolo player knolyourself. I'm not advocating anything here - anywhere - at all. Ever. Show me. I'm just reporting the story. We're just as much the problem as they are. Surely you jest about me not having a clue. What's the point here of all your statements above  roll  because they have nothing to do with what I've written.

      1. Paraglider profile image87
        Paragliderposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        PT - I live in the Gulf. These states or kingdoms (emirates) are wholly dependent on immigrant labour. in the event of war, insurrection or terrorism, they will simply stop functioning and cease to exist as everyone who keeps them running would go home at the first opportunity. The professional classes, mainly from Europe, would be on the first plane. The oil would just stop. I hope it doesn't happen, but it could. If you want to call that a prophecy, feel free. It's far more realistic and meaningful than dreamed up twoddle about 9-horned beasts and great whores.

        And try to understand that it's not all about Islam and Christianity. It's all about oil and money. If the oil had been located in the rain forest instead, you'd be finding prophesies to demonise the Brazilians instead of Islam.

        Also realise that throughout history people have been shouting that Armageddon is just over the horizon. Why? Because their feeble minds are only capable of looking at events in their own time. Or of retrospectively 'proving' that prophesy has been fulfilled, in ways never envisaged by the prophets. Tell me what's going to happen in the year 2400 - you can't. You haven't got a clue, because the so called prophesies are so much garbage. All you can ever do is interpret them retrospectively (how convenient) and 'project' them into the very near future, while saying 'this was all foretold 4000 years ago'. Sorry, but it's bollox.

        You exhibit considerable scholarship and have clearly devoted much of your life to this study. But you are being disingenuous in insisting you are just an innocent academic. As many have pointed out before me, you are driven by an anti Islamic agenda and are intent on causing trouble.

        Knolyourself suggested you should get out more. Try the Paranormal Hotel in Dubai. It's full of great whores. You'd be in your element. (joke) smile

        1. topstuff profile image59
          topstuffposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Iraq war summing up in three words
          O-peration
          I-raq
          L-iberation

  11. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    A joke in bad taste. (But I forgive you)

    I am confident you are right about the past issues of prophecy.

    But oil isn't in the rain forest is it? It is in the nations surrounding Israel.

    And our generation has several things those others did not.

    Israel has come back into it's homeland after 2000 years away. No nation in history has done that while maintaining their language, culture and identity. Odd huh? Surely, that's just a coincidence right? Go ahead, Google it - just for giggles.

    And of course it happens to come back into the land which is now completely surrounded by a NEW religion - that wasn't there when they left - that just happens to have in it's Holy Book - Surahs against Jews. Blind luck I guess. (This is the only time I have specifically mentioned the more controversail aspects of Islam on this subject - forgive me this one misdemeanor - I'm sure everyone will pounce on it)


    The Bible says in Zechariah 12:3  -

    """And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."""


    Odd quirk of words I presume. Difficult to interpret I guess. Plucked out of thin air. Could have been any Jerusalem situation in the last 2000 yrs huh - but can't think of one.

    We are the only generation that has 30,000 nuclear bombs, chemical weapons and biological weapons. Considering the state of the world's issues - you place a lot more hope in 2400 ad than is reasonable (joke).

    Any idea how the world is going to get out this mess without a major war?? If the past is prologue - the 20th century doesn't leave much hope for the 21st. I see more adversaries now than then - with infinitely more destructive weapons.

      Of course, one may dismiss these odd circumstances of history as just an overnight stay in a paranormal hotel. But I do not; and I would think that any thinking person should think about it. Even if it hurts their head.

      Explain to me why the Jewish God would say the following 2500 years before it could happen? ""I will bring you against My land""

      ""and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes"" EZE 38:16

       Or this,

    EZE 38:10 """Thus says the Lord GOD, “It will come about on that day, that thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan, 11 and you will say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls and having no bars or gates, 12 to capture spoil and to seize plunder, to turn your hand against the waste places which are now inhabited, and against the people who are gathered from the nations, (the Jews) who have acquired cattle and goods, who live at the center of the world."""

      This was written in 586BC - when Israel was an oasis. How did they know it would be desolate at the last days when the Jews would be gathered from many nations to go back to a land that had always been desolate? It continues...


    EZE 38:14 “Therefore prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “On that day when My people Israel are living securely, will you not know it? 15 “You will come from your place out of the remote parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly and a mighty army; 16 and you will come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. It shall come about in the last days that I will bring you against My land, so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you before their eyes, O Gog.”

    17 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them? 18 “It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” declares the Lord GOD, “that My fury will mount up in My anger. 19 “In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 “The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 “I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord GOD. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 “With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. 23 “I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the LORD.”’

       Sounds to me like God is going to get mad at some group of nations that surround Israel, in the last days, after they have left their land, and then it becomes a waste, but when they come back it revives - at a time when they are in a peace - which is broken - and nobody believes it's going to happen.

       Any ideas, what all that means?  What's up with this?

      Checked out your website - I'll read around it a bit. smile

  12. talford profile image75
    talfordposted 11 years ago

    Since you are quoting Zechariah; care to comment on Zechariah 14:12?

    "And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."

    Sounds eerily similar to what happened in Nagasaki and Heroshima.

    Tom

  13. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    As you know, that verse is describing what happens to the nations that come up against Israel in those future days. Sounds like Neutron bombs to me. It's believed most of Israel's bombs are. Tight quarters to fight a war. But it doesn't have to be a bomb. Israel, like China, Russia and the US - are working on DNA viruses. This is a branch of biological warfare where an agent attacks an enemy through their own peculiar DNA genetic codes - but the attacker is immune - because he does not share those genetic attributes. (Scary stuff)

    So in that regard, these weapons mentioned in Zach. may be biological. China and Israel are ahead in this technology.

    One of the salient points about a time line for Last Day events is the weapons situation. It would seem that these wars happen before the opposing side gets many nuclear weapons or biological weapons which can be delivered over long ranges.. (either that or they have them but don't use them because they want the Holy land intact. That's one point, but another is that if the verses depicting Israel losing half of Jerusalem in the war is correct - and we see Antichrist ruling from Jerusalem - as so many verses say - there would be no need to bomb Israel with nuclear weapons. So the opposing side could very well have them also - but not use them on Israel. It is believed they surely use them everywhere else - because he "Destroy's" wonderfully - Daniel 11. We also know that "Damascus is removed from being a city" a perpetual wasteland.


    Many think Russia is in on the war (as I'm sure you know) but I don't. I think Russia attacks Europe as an ally of the Caliphate. Russia has never moved their heavy arms from Europe back behind the Ural mountains as laid out in the treaties signed after the cold war. Therefore - she can move with lightening speed throughout Europe at any time. There is a very fascinating writer JR Nyquist (whom I follow closely - he doesn't write as a Christian but solely as an American) and his body of work is based upon the Soviet Defectors of the 60's-90's who explained in detail the Communist plot to deceive the West into believing the war was over. Somewhere in there - it was stated that Russia would make a move into the Georgia area with a large amount of weaponry as a feint for a greater European war. When the flank is full of offensive weapons they will suddenly attack. (it is a plan - not a prophecy)

    Even this morning, Russia has moved into Georgia with 150 tanks, vehicles etc. When it comes he says, it'll be like this - only bigger and will seem perfectly justified - even as today's action seems so normal. (I strongly suggest to every Westerner to read his works - there are several hundred articles here)

    http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatc … /main.html

    Russia is in quite a predicament. It has 143 million people - of which approx 30% are Muslim. Further, over half of the members serving in the armed forces are Muslim. This feature came about during the cold war because in many of the Stan countries which were in the Soviet Union - were very poor. I'm not talking about loyalty here or religion, I'm talking about demographics. Any Google search will bring up 100's of articles. It's an acute problem.

    The white and other historical Russian population is shrinking much faster than Europe's is.
    http://www.kommersant.com/p740826/demographics/

    ***

    The reason I posted Isaac Newton's comments about the last days beginning around 2060 - is that - before I ever knew he studied the prophecies - I had arrived at a 2060 date as well. And I had read another commentary getting there too. All 3 got there different ways.(Which I found somewhat compelling. Compelling; not date setting)

    So, I researched 2060 as a date in general - and there you'll find Russia in dire straits demographically, Europe 50% Muslim with Sharia mixed into traditional common law, Islam with a Caliphate, and the rapid depletion of oil compared to the rising population (expected to be 9 billion)

    Oil depletion - is expected to be reached past the top curve in the 2030/40 range - with negative supply/demand after that in ever declining percentages.

    ***

    As for me, I don't think the sky is falling today. That any of these things will happen in the next 20-30 years. But we see the foundations being laid for them now.

    I believe we are about to enter a very surprising period of great prosperity and general peace. I do not believe a depression is coming - nor a fatal stock market fall - or a greater war (although small ones will linger)

    When I teach about this prosperity most people are surprised. When I used to talk about it in the 80's and 90's - most everyone was expecting disaster. But we've had nothing except ever growing and unparalleled historic prosperity ever since. Not surprisingly, Revelation 18 shows that The Whore of Babylon (Which I think is the Western World) is very rich and the cause of richness until the very day of her system's collapse. Revelation is very clear about several things.

    "She made the whole world rich"
    "She buys the world's goods"
    "She caused the whole world to fall into intense immorality"

    She does not destroy herself. She is not destroyed slowly.
    She is destroyed by the Beast which hates her - and it happens in a SINGLE day - just like the historic Babylon was destroyed in a single day.

    What is destroyed is not the country (or alliance) as a viable war making entity - (that survives) - but it is her ability to buy, influence and spread immorality.

    Furthermore, Jesus said the last days would be like Noah's days. Everything would appear to be normal and everywhere man will be living in peace and prosperity. Even until the VERY DAY - Noah went into the ark.

    Same with Sodom and Gomorrah - until the very day - the angel led Lot out. Ezekiel tells obliquely what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was (Homosexuality was one of them - but they were destroyed for others - most Christians don't realize this)

    EZE 16 is talking to Judah before the Babylonian invasion. Samaria had already been destroyed by Assyria. But notice that Ezekiel describes Judah by comparing them to Samaria and Sodom. Look what he says Sodom was like before the DAY it was destroyed.

    Also notice the condition of Judah and Samaria was exactly like Noah's world - and Lot's world before their destructions. Ezekiel says they all shared the same thing.


    46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only walked in their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.

    49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. 51 Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done"""

    ***

    arrogant
    overfed
    unconcerned (with spiritual things)
    did not help the poor and needy
    haughty
    did detestable things (sacrificed their children to gods, homosexuality, and abortion as said elsewhere)
    Therefore I did away with them as you have seen


    He is talking about a set of circumstances for all of them which only comes from intense prosperity. So as it was - so shall it be.


    ***


    So -  according to Jesus in Matthew - will be the world when the wars start.

    Does Islam say the state of affairs will be this way in their prophecies?? One would think that if the Western World and Israel is this way - then it would have spread throughout the world and even into Islam. (Especially since this Whore rules the world - she is the city which rules over the kings of the earth)

    Of course - Islamists point out the sins of the West continually as their justification for Jihad. And to a great degree - I think they are right. We're sinful. As sinful as a nation ever was.

    But will the Jihadists win at this point - or will the West and its Middle Eastern allies implement Capitalism into the Islamic world causing a revolution of prosperity? A year ago, before the surge, when the war looked lost in Iraq - I wrote an email and sent it out saying - the war is not lost, we will turn it around, and the Middle East will be transformed into a Capitalist World. Peace will come into the greater Middle East and most likely will last a generation - 20-40 years. Seemed stupid at the time - but I based it on these verses above - and Islamic Hadith which prophecy the same thing. (Islamic apostasy and Capitalist values, commerce etc.)

    {{As a Christian, I am not advocating using Islamic Prophecy. I only refer to the ones - which mirror the Bible's. Paul in talking to Timothy elaborates the same last days culture as those Hadith - I mention it solely to show the Muslims expect these events to predominate before the Mahdi comes as well}}

    So, how long does all of this last - until it changes?

    The Muslim world is the last part of the world to be made (rich) even as we are beginning to see.

    It lasts until a confederation surrounding Israel made up of 10 nations forms and rules together as an economic block for a awhile. (Revelation says they are of "one mind") They are not in a state of war against Israel - so there must be peace.

    In the Post above we see that when the great attack comes - Israel is in a GREAT peace. (Those reading, please don't try to portray this as me against Arabs. Arabs for whatever reasons - have attacked 5 times already. This is not inconceivable. I am not advocating right or wrong - I am analyzing verses in Holy Books. If someone wants to debate the greater Middle East problems - another forum is appropriate)

    In order for all those things to happen - there must be peace and prosperity - and it must last for more than 7 years ( A 7 years peace treaty is a VERY big belief in Protestant Evangelical Christendom - but I don't hold to the 7 yrs peace treaty - it can't be proved) I believe the peace is generic and lasts much longer.

    Revelation says the 10 nations must rule together for a little while - before the Antichrist comes. The continuing shifting alliances in the Middle East have always favored the West. It is only when these 10 Kings (after they are unified and rule together for awhile) give their power to the Antichrist - that things change. Even so - the Bible does not tell us the attack happens at that VERY moment. For all we know - it may be even years more.

    I believe all of this takes a lot of time. That this future scenario is on the horizon but not imminent.

  14. Prophecy Teacher profile image69
    Prophecy Teacherposted 11 years ago

    A good discussion from many points of view about the Russian/Muslim demographic situation

    http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/08 … ussia.html

  15. Paraglider profile image87
    Paragliderposted 11 years ago

    I agree with you that the Middle East could easily flare up into a full scale war that could turn nuclear. What I will never agree to is that this ha been predicted in Biblical prophesy. I repeat that the interpretation is retrospective and therefore bound to fit the facts and equally bound to be fruitless.

    I also agree with Zarm that the whole Middle East is serving merely to weaken the old empires and help clear the stage for the rise of China, who will care little for Christianity or Islam. Did the bible predict that too?

    The other side of prophesy, equally silly, can be found in some editions of the Mahabharata, where it is explained that the great war in ancient India was actually fought with nuclear weapons. Krisna's discus was actually a ballistic missile with a thermonuclear warhead.

    I raise this as an example of how people whether thinking forward or backward in time are often hopelessly stuck in the things of their own time. It displays a lack of imagination.

  16. Mark Knowles profile image59
    Mark Knowlesposted 11 years ago

    Well said paraglider.

    Plus - this is the crux for me:

    The only possible point I can see in trying to do this "retrospective" prophecies that have now become clear is what ?

    To "prove" the bible is the word of god and therefore correct lolo

    Once you believe this rubbish it seems most will do almost anything to spread their "TRUTH" lol

    Gotta love the religious zealots.

    Look East young man. Not only are the Muslims coming, the Chinese, Russians and Indians are not far behind. And they hold dear the same values as you do.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    God bless the dollar !

  17. SparklingJewel profile image70
    SparklingJewelposted 11 years ago

    Well, everyone is wrong ! big_smile

    The anti-christ is in everyone...because everyone can become the Christ...it is a gradual process for the soul and the mind to mature and unify and work together...if the evil human ego is subdued and the healthy human ego/mind and soul rises up to maturity and works with the Christ Mind.

    If enough people choose to go that direction, and any one can, no matter what their religion/belief system/philosophy, than any one person that has the human power and chooses to be a big anti-christ and has followers to support him/her, can be brought down because/if the majority of people will choose to bring peace and harmony.

    The power of the Spirit in the majority of humanity as the Christ Mind, is more powerful than any human anti-christ mind, no matter what number of followers he/she has. But human physical defense has to be in play because we are physical beings, we can't pray away terrorism, because terrorism is an act...prayer works on the spiritual plane and can change hearts, minds and souls...to stop people from becoming terrorists/acting.

    Prophecy works the same; it can be changed. If we pray for changing of the hearts, minds and souls for peace and harmony, than actions will change, our own and those we pray for. But in the mean time the physical needs to be defended...few minds in that pattern will change over night.

    But if points keep being pounded, reiterated, focused on as "truth" than that power of consciousness can and does affect the outcome. Prophecy is of the mind, only a potential...Spirit has more power...free will choices to act makes the difference.

 
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