Does the universe have a boudary? What is on the other side of it?

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   Austinstarposted 13 years ago

   Most people I talk to have a concept of the universe as a fixed amount of space with some sort of boundary surrounding it. Some people believe God lives beyond this "boundary".
   Please explain why you believe there is a boundary, what it consists of, what is beyond this boundary, and why you think this?

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      SimeyCposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      To be honest, the concept is far beyond the normal mind. We normal people think in terms of 3D, so there are boundaries - the concept of Space Time Continuum is so far beyond our normal understanding; and from what I have been told, would answer your question adequately if I only knew how to explain it. The kind of concept is that you'd reach the left side of the universe and popup on the right side - kinda sorta like asteroids where you went of the top of the screen and back on the bottom....
      
      OK so I don't really know..but it's something logical and scientific like...

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      jambi00posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      One way to conceptualize the problem without your head exploding is to think of it like this.  If your path were completely unobstructed, and you began to walk in any direction on the surface of the Earth, you would never come to a boundary.  The universe exists in much the same manner.  There is no boundary.
      
      To any who have played MineCraft, ShortStory's response can be conceptualized in the same manner.  There is no boundary, it just expands to accommodate you.  It does not expand into something, the area just gets bigger.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The Universe is expanding so it has no boundary. The Creator-God has created this Universe; this means he is not in the physical realm and he exists and is known from His attributes.

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      kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The universe is all things perfectly united as ONE..
      
      Thus no external boundaries....
      
      No expansion....for it to be expanding is for it to be suspended in something greater than itself....
      
      One may say suspend in time and space....
      
      But both time ans space are within the universe not apart nor without it...

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Austin:
      Curiosity makes me ask this: What universe are ya talking about?
      Seriously, are you referring to the universe we exist within? Or the universe as it exists around us and all that which exists around it?
      Might there not be inumerable universes beyond ours that can only exist in our imaginations?
      Beyond and surrounding all the potential universes, doing their thing in a vacuum, what might the vacuum be contained within?...and then beyond that?...on and on ad infinitum?
      Hmmmm?
      Qwark

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The creations of the Creator-God are limitless; like all His attributes; human being know very little of them as yet.

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      2. 86

         Austinstarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Dear Qwark, I define the "universe" as Life, the Universe and Everything! There is no within or without, there is only one universe with perhaps multiple personalities. :-)
         Infinity and Universe are one and the same to me.

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Univers merges into infinity and the infinity merges into the Creator-God having infinite attributes.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            G'mornin' Austin:
            The coffee is hot and fresh. C'mon down!  :
            You say that the "universe" you mention is "life." Correct?
            And you say that life is "infinite." Right?
            If that's the case, how could anyone answer the question: "Does the universe have a boundary? What is on the other side of it?
            infinity has no boundaries...right.
            Damn! I love my coffee in the AM...:
            It's a gorgeous day in Corpus!
            Qwark

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               Austinstarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Infinity has no boundaries - this was my whole point!  Life has no boundaries other than man-made ones. Boundaries are artificial. They don't really exist.
               At the atomic level we are all quite busy!

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                  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yep!
                  If we humans weren't here to try to make meaning of "everything,"
                  There'd be no wondering, no curiosity, no searching, no understanding, no meaning. "Everything would just "BE" as "everything "IS."
                  Damn! that was profound!   lolol  :
                  Qwark

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   6. 59

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The universe is "finite" in that there is a certain amount of mass/energy contained within. The universe is also "boundless" in that it does not have any boundaries, hence you have a finite amount of matter in a universe with no boundaries.

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   ShortStoryposted 13 years ago

   The answer is yes and no. The universe is of particular dimensions (though not fixed or static), but if it were theoretically possible to travel to the 'edge' of the universe, trying to step beyond the boundary would cause (or necessarily coincide) the universe to expand.

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   Merlin Fraserposted 13 years ago

   As the Universe is still expanding and at an accelerating rate it might be kind of hard to imagine a boundary of any kind.
   
   Presumably at some point in the future it will slow down, stop and start to collapse back into a singularity followed by a Big Bang and the whole thing will start again.
   
   There is a theory that this has happened several times before !

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      Austinstarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What is it expanding into? More universe?
      Perhaps we do not have a coherent definition of the universe.

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         ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Not expanding into anything.

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         superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We don't know whay it's expanding (or stretching) into, it could be nothing in a physical sense i.e. No math or matter or particles at all.
         
         The universe is just everything that exists in its broadest sense. This is though, very difficult to convey using everyday words.
         
         It's a fascinating topic. I'm not sure I'd have stuck it in the religious forum, mind. These are questions that theoretical physics seeks to address.

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            just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, it's a great topic in the religious forum. Short story just told me reality creates space, I guess that's what he's saying. Something out of nothing. I think it's hilarious that the fundamentalists get bashed for saying this, and I assume from short story's comment this is a scientific theory on the universe.  How odd is that? I'm really confused, but definitely paying attention to this thread.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               What Short Story actually told you was this:
               
               "Reality doesn't have to have something to expand into because by expanding it necessarily creates 'more' reality."
               
               He is saying that reality is expanding using energy that has always been there, not creating something out of nothing.
               
               All of this is silly. Reality has always been here and always will be.
               
               Read this if you want to understand:
               
               http://hubpages.com/hub/UNCAUSED-FIRST- … on-REFUTED

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                  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Ok.I'll read it. But that's kind of hard to wrap my head around too. Reality has always been. No beginning. Expanding. Creating more reality. I was involved in something else, but this is way more interesting.

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                  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Read the hub. Interesting read. It proved that church teachings and the big bang theory are missing an important component to make their theories air tight. This was not a news flash. We all knew that. What it does not do is make a valid case for the eternal existence of reality. Sorry.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry you did not understand. Good luck in your quest to prove to yourself that religion and science are both belief systems and one is no more or less valid than the other.
                     
                     Little wonder your religion causes so many wars.

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                        just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Mark, you suggested I read an article to prove a point you stated. The fact that I concluded your point was not proven does not imply I did not understand. It says, to me, you are wrong. Simply because it is unfathomable for you to imagine this possibility, many others can clearly see this. Many times.

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Of course I am wrong. I cannot disprove "unfathomable."

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                              just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              

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               superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That's why I used "stretching" in the last post. The universe isn't being created out of nothing, the universe is actually stretching as far as we can perciee it. This is why we see red shift and other indicators of the universe stretching because pretty much all large visible ojects are moving away from each other because of it.
               
               This, I agree is massively counterintuitive and utterly baffling. I'm not sure there'sanything being created out of nothing. Perhaps expanding into nothing. But as I've said, we don't know what's outside of the universe.
               
               If you want to read up on something even weirder with regards to reality, then have a read up on the holographic principle which says that the universe is essentially a hologram. This might go  way to answering a lot of the questions we have. It's early days though.
               
               This is way stranger than a religion could ever hope to be! I think the reason that I would prefer this in a science forum rather than religious is because religious forums invite people to say "well we don't know what's happening there, God must have done it", which flies in the face of scientific reasoning. I'm glad you're interested though!

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                  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, you ignore the nay say comments and forge ahead. Some of us might  learn something. I'm glad they put it here. Fascinating stuff.

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                     superwagsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Don't know whether you have an hour to kill, but this can probably put the point accross in about 1/10th the time I ever could hope to:
                     
                     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Z8CqAiYI8
                     
                     Thank god for the BBC!

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                        just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Thanks. I'll definitely watch that tonight.

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               Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Nothing is being created out of nothing.... There is nothing there to start with.
               
               If the Universe is too big for you to get your head around, and lets face it it is for most of us, just think you are blowing up a balloon which is expanding with each puff...
               
               OK still with me so far ?  So what is it expanding into ?
               
               From your mis understanding you seem to be saying that space must have some sort of substance that has to be created.
               
               The space around you is what exactly... most people would define that as nothing.
               
               If when you move forward you bump into something and move it out of the way do you have to create something to move it into or do you just expand the space around yourself...?
               
               Try not to over think the situation.... there IS nothing there so the Universe can expand as it is doing...

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                  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Any space that becomes occupied by the universe, that wasn't occupied before did not, not exist, prior to our universe expanding. A balloon doesn't expand into nothing. I don't define the space between me and the next solid object as nothing.  We call it empty space, but it is there. I think we aren't seeing this from the same angle.  If someone tells me that reality expands, therefor the unoccupied and empty space becomes reality, I need something to back that up.  I'm not going to take it on faith. It's a pretty bold assertion.

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      Austinstarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree Merlin that this universe may be a recurring event.

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         Austinstarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well, I should clear that up - the universe contains matter that may expand and contract over and over again.

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   just_curiousposted 13 years ago

   I know there isn't a fixed boundary, since it is obviously expanding. But since it is expanding, there's obviously something to expand into, in my opinion. I don't suppose we'll ever have the answer, at last not in our lifetime; but I've never thought heaven was there. I always imagined heaven as some plane that was somehow woven around our own. Like thar dark matter (just kidding) but something like that.

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      ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Reality doesn't have to have something to expand into because by expanding it necessarily creates 'more' reality.

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         just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ok. That's interesting. I can't wrap my head around something expanding into nothing. How do you create space inside of nothing?

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            ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It's not inside of nothing, it IS everything. A universe half as expansive as ours is now would still be 'infinite' as far as we can conceive it.

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5. 87

   SimeyCposted 13 years ago

   You mean that at some point I'm going to be re-writing all my hubs again!? Cool maybe I can get them Google-proof before this week next time!

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6. 81

   manlypoetrymanposted 13 years ago

   Oh...pick me...I know this one!
   
   
   
   The edge of the universe is the Nuetral Zone where the Romulans and the Klingons battle it out.

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   Mabrurposted 13 years ago

   It has no boundary........like your mind.......Does it have any boundary???

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8. 81

   Midnight Oilposted 13 years ago

   The universe and space is still expanding, but the big question is what is it expanding into and more importantly, does it have the correct local authority approval for this expansion work ?

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   Mikeydoesposted 13 years ago

   I think of it like this. In the deepest part of the ocean there is a microbe. Now pretend that you are the microbe and you only know what you can see. Inside that microbe is something much smaller and unknown to us. And something makes them up. Where do you think their boundaries end?

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10. 86

    Austinstarposted 13 years ago

    As expected, Mark Knowles got the right answer!
    Yes, your mind has a boundary, it's called your skull. If something bashes your skull in, you won't have a mind anymore.
    Basically, there is no boundary and that was the purpose of this forum to get people to think.
    By the way, Merlin, Balloons have boundaries (rubber or latex). So that's not a good analogy.
    The universe is not a box, nor can you go to the left side and come out on the right side. There are no sides.
    Free your mind to imagine infinity!

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    White Horseposted 13 years ago

    Saying the universe has boundaries might be like saying the Earth is flat. Go to the edge and you fall off.  Man seems to be the smartest living thing on the this planet other than your dog.  I used to say dumb dog, until my neighbor said, who is the dumb one Steve?  Who feeds the dog? Who waters the dog? Who walks the dog? Who lets the dog out to excrete waste? Who pays the vet bills? Who is the dumb one?  Man can hardly get off this planet and only a few do it. So now I have to conclude that the dog and the universe are smarter than I !

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    jomineposted 13 years ago

    The universe has No boundary.
    Universe is a concept, only objects can have boundary.
    If universe is the matter around all us, still space is there. Space is that which gives shape. it is continuous. Space has no boundaries as it is "nothing". Nothing can have no boundary.
    Whoever says there is boundary has to explain what this boundary is made of.
    About expanding Universe- again only objects can expand, no concepts can expand. Objects may be moving away from each other, but that will not make the universe expand(as space also will have to be expanded and space cannot expand).
    Mind expanding- Mind again is a concept, the function of our brain. So mind has no boundary, but brain has.

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    paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

    [51:48] And We have built the heaven with Our own hands, and verily We have vast powers.
    
    The Universe is expanding so it has no boundary. The Creator-God has created this Universe; this means he is not in the physical realm and he exists and is known from His attributes.

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    iantoPFposted 13 years ago

    Some years ago an interesting phenomenon was documented and proven using light from the planets in our solar system. It seems that when the light emanating from an object is broken down into it's prism we find that there is a definite emphasis towards the ultra-violet when the object is moving towards us and a definite shift to the infra-red when moving away. When applied to distant galaxies it seems that they are all moving away from us. This raises the question, What is so special about us? Nothing as it turns out. Everything in the universe is moving away from everything else.
    It also can be shown that the further away from us we search, the faster the speed of separation. This can be calculated to arrive at a point at where objects in the universe are moving away from each other at the speed of light. At that point those objects cannot be seen by us or each other. So there is the "Boundary" of the universe.
    Beyond that we may theorize about objects moving away from each other at incredible speeds, or not.

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15. 59

    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    How do you know this?

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Do you know the story of "Flatland?"

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    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    "Do you know the story of "Flatland?"".
    Heard of it but I don't remember now.
    Does not this question belong on the
    forum 'Does Science Tell Stories'." No never have, so you have the advantage of me.

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It's not a story that science tells, it's a story written by EA Abbott, and although it was meant as a satire of Victorian society, it helps to understand dimensions and the concept of a 'boundless' universe.
       
       http://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/eaa/FL.HTM

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    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    Point being I was wondering how you know what's all the way out there, when as far as I know, telescopes have yet to peer out into space that does not possess fully formed galaxies?
    K catch you later, din/din, as I am bound by time.

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       If the universe had boundaries, the Big Bang would be in very big trouble as it would yield inconsistencies with the laws of physics.

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    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    I think of it this way.
    The "Big Bang" alledgedly created OUR universe within the cosmos.
    OUR universe IS finite. The cosmos? Who knows?
    Qwark

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