At his last supper Jesus tells his followers that if they want to get to heaven they have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. The Catholic church tells us this is not a metaphor. When the host and wine are blessed they become the actual blood and flesh of Jesus.
Jesus makes it clear that this is the case.
Cannibals don't eat human flesh for food. They do it because they believe that the special attributes of the person they eat bits of will become their attributes.
So obviously there is no difference between what cannibals do and what Christians do.
The first sentence of your statement is incorrect, which makes the rest wrong.
So you are not supposed to eat his flesh and drink his blood? Nice try.
He never said that you had to eat his flesh and drink his blood to get to heaven.
Really? John 6
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53 Then Jesus said to them: "Amen, amen, I say unto you: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will raise him up in the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
Have you heard of Transubstantiation? Transubstantiation teaches that Christ is present in the Eucharist by the change of the entire substance of bread and wine into His Body and Blood.
So try again.
Flesh and blood at that time meant the whole person, to believe in him completely. If was not meant to be taken literally. In verse 63 he explains what he means.
The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But some of you do not believe me.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning which ones didn’t believe, and he knew who would betray him.) 65 Then he said, “That is why I said that people can’t come to me unless the Father gives them to me.”
Of course, if it challenges the foundation of Christian beliefs, it is always not to be taken literally. Seems like a cop-out.
For the life of me, I just don't understand why Jesus would go through all the trouble of stating anything, if He already knows what's going to happen.
Please explain how you make sense of this.
No. The Catholics make it very clear it is not a metaphor. So I guess you are a heretic.
I think you are calling Jesus a liar. Read the words on the page. What do they say? It can not be any clearer.
maybe you need to quote the rest, where the disciples are shocked and found it hard to digest? And how Jesus said anyone who doesn't eat him doesn't see the kingdom of heaven.
Seems Jesus did not mean for it to be a metaphor
Nop. No way you can read that and assume it's a metaphor. Particularly after the last supper ritual. And, the Catholic Church insists it isn't and they say the bread and wine actually fully become the body and blood of Jesus.
They just don't like the fact so again they apologize for it and say it means something else. Yet they do it anyway.
They are cannibals AND heretics. lol....
Perhaps, you've taken a scene from Angela's Ashes too literally. What's the problem? Why is what they think important?
What do you mean why is what they think important? I've never seen Angela's ashes so t'm not sure what you mean there either. There is no problem. Just stating facts and having fun.
Oh. If you mean why does what the Catholic Church thinks matter, it matters only in that it is the beginnings of the Church, and all others are breakaway heretical cults.
But also, they are the original fundamentalists. They tend to have been literalists. But also they were/are fanatical about being "rational" about their theology. They do diligent research, and they tend to be honest to a fault. Their theology writers, I mean. You should visit their web site.
If these passages were to have been interpreted in any other way they would have done it. There were great debates about it and many heresies that came from them, which were squashed until the reform.
Did you know that when the bread and wine are blessed, and crumbs left over are buried as if they were a body? The real body of Jesus.
There a story the priests around here tell about a house keeper who had been on the job long. She accidentally vacuumed up crumbs that were left when a priest was in too much hurry to clean them up right away. The priest came back and was horrified. They couldn't see a way to be sure they would get everything if they just buried the bag, so they buried the entire vacuum cleaner. That's how serious they are about it.
Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" (John 6:53)
"Hoc corpus meus est."
First of all, all Christians are not Catholic and all Catholics are not Christians, just as in any denomination. So, while the Catholic Church is the most famous and powerful section of Believers, please do not continue to confuse the reality of this issue.
Jesus does NOT make it clear that it's literal! Matter of fact, just the opposite---He makes it clear that it's symbolic.
The Catholic Church may say those Scriptures aren't metaphor, but indeed they are. If Jesus had meant to literally drink his blood and eat His flesh, he would've literally offered the disciples his actual blood and a piece of His flesh instead of giving them a piece of bread. If that were the case, one can imagine the disciples would've also went and drank His blood as He hung on the Cross, or some such nonsense.
The communion wafer (which is used by both Catholics and other Christian groups) does not turn into the actual flesh of Christ. It's symbolic, Spiritual.
So, no, Christians aren't vampires or cannibals. If the Catholic Church believes in the literal interpretation of those Scriptures, then THEY are inadvertently saying they're vampires or cannibals, though they THINK they're being Spiritual, but of course they deny that.
"all Catholics are not Christians" So if they aren't Christians, what are they then? Obviously you didn't go to Catholic school, cause if you did, you'd know that you can't be a Catholic without being a Christian. They aren't vampires either. However, I will concede that a good number of priests are perverts.
Maybe you took that wrong, and maybe I should've said "Not all Catholics are Christians". Does that explain it better?
People can be lots of things without really being a Christian! There are some people who follow a religion instead of following Christ, in all denominations.
Not all Christians follow the doctrine, including the rituals, of the Catholic Church.
It is you that are not a Christian. You are a heretic. I suggest you go to the nearest Catholic Church and repent your sins, or you will end up in hell. Who the hell do you think you are saying Catholics are not Christian? Were it not for the UNIVERSAL Church your heresy wouldn't even be possible. Get behind me, Satan! And wash out your filthy mouth!
According to the bible...Jesus turn water into wine...So why couldn't he turn bread into flesh and wine into blood?
And if you have already done two impossible things to day, why not make it three and spend he evening at Millyways, the restaurant at the end of the universe?
Couldn't eat another bite, still stuffed from my visit to "The Big Bang Burger Bar"
Sure. According to Adams you just need to put a couple dollars in the bank now, go forward in time to the end of the universe, and by then you will have amassed enough money to pay the fair and the entrance fee.
We'll see you there in about an hour? Drinks on me.
Brenda, You made a point. I don't see any scriptures listed on this forum stating that Jesus cut a piece of his flesh for his disciples to eat, and poured them his blood from his flesh to drink. This forum was posted to ridicule christians. God bless you.
The Christians need to reform; this tradition is not from Jesus.
Hey Slarty!! I think you're onto something here. Let's just go with it a little and see what happens. I know I'm ready!
As I recall, vampires live forever, unless they get a stake through the heart. Let's assume for this chat they do live forever and are not walking into stakes right at chest level. So, their drinking of the blood of others feeds their eternal lives. Cool!
Now, you're talking about Jesus saying in John chapter six that we need to eat His flesh and drink His blood. Gotcha, I'm tracking with you. And He says in that passage whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood will have eternal life. That means that Christians also will live forever. COOL!!!!
But wait. Oops. I haven't ever seen or heard of anyone that lived over about 115 or maybe 120 years (or over 900 years tops, if we are going to count Methuselah- but still, even he eventually died). Whoa, whoa, whoa. Something is wrong here. Nobody is living forever. Bummer.
IF indeed Christians have been drinking literally the blood of Christ, then they should, since we are taking things literally, LIVE FOREVER. LITERALLY, physically. But they don't!! Boo hoo. What is going on here then?
Maybe, just MAYBE, Jesus wasn't speaking literally of physical flesh and blood. Whaddya think? Maybe He was speaking of another kind of partaking....spiritual rather than physical? I mean, Jesus goes on to say in the verses after the passage you mention that the manna which the Jewish ancestors ate didn't let them live forever. But then Jesus speaks of Himself as the bread which WILL let you live forever if you eat it. So maybe He was also speaking of another kind of living forever. Hmmm....
So, either we Christians are partaking spiritually, or it is indeed physical and since we aren't living physically forever then Jesus was lying. Well, you'll have to be the one to call Jesus a liar to His face, I am not going to do it. I hope soon for your sake that you will understand what this passage of the Bible means. Really I do.
Oh, by the way, if it really is blood, how can we make sense of these verses, which have to do with the original post you made, concerning the last supper?
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”
First He says blood, then He says, very clearly, literally, THIS FRUIT OF THE VINE. That sounds like squished grapes to me, not blood. Again, hmmm....
Maybe it is time for you to ask Jesus Himself what He meant. He will always answer a sincere seeker. But you cannot speak for Him and decide what His answers are, you must allow Him to speak for Himself.
No. He said clearly you would live forever after you die if you eat him. Vampires die before they come back as immortals. Same thing.
Hey there Slarty, you keep on preaching those Bible truths!! I admit the vampire angle is a bit unorthodox, but hey, let's go with it.
You are so insightful about the Christian life for someone so hostile to it! You are amazing! It is indeed true, as Christians, we are called to die to ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus! And it is true, as I said before, that we will live again after we die! And yes, just as you said, we Christians will be immortal, our souls will gain new perfect bodies, not like the ones destined to die in this life like yours and mine. Wow, such good stuff to support what the Bible says! And who would have thought it would come from the keyboard of someone just trying to get attention with a shock title? Cool! I love the Bible, and I love thinking about all that God has done for us by giving us Jesus. You have brought to light many Bible truths. Thanks!
Let me recap for you:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him shall not die, but have everlasting life.
Just had to add that I think it is so cool that you are so close to becoming a Christian, because I know you would not be so obsessed with Jesus' teachings unless you were searching for the truth. Keep on reading your Bible!!
I left the Catholic church when I was 6. But like I told someone else today, you should be very happy that I am an atheist. I would likely bring back the inquisition to root out all the heretics.
The idea that I am obsessed with Jesus is interesting but incorrect. I'm more interested in exposing the irrationality of Christianity in particular, but have I enjoy taking on religion in general.
It has become an interest and a hobby that stems from my own search over 50 years or so. I also love ancient history of all kinds.
Are you here perhaps because you have doubts? A well grounded Christian just doesn't hang around these places do they? Testing your faith perhaps?
I'm here for you. Ready to tell it like it is. I can arrange a series of them for you if you like. Are you up to it? Don't be surprised if your perspective changes, eh? lol...
No definitely not. The 'body and blood' of Christ is a symbolic meaning signifying the love of Christ for the world that he sacrificed his life for us. Thus by taking the Holy Communion, we accept Christ into our lives and his love for us. For Christians, this sacrifice was made not to encourage others to do the same but to love one another as Christ had done whilst he was living and continue to do through the remembrance we have for his Act of Love for us.
I have never heard Christianity being likened to a vampire cult before and this question did startle me into wondering how that assumption was made!
Oh boy, youve discovered our secret.
Now we dont have a choice but to come to your home and suck all of your blood while you are aslep!
Make sure you dont eat garlic for the next three days,because we,the christians vampire,dont like it!
cannibals only eat flesh. You drink blood.
Ok. Sorry. lol.... Didn't mean to insult you. Let me amend that to: cannibals only eat flesh. Christians drink blood. Better?
what i am trying to figure out is why do you think Christians are vampire cult when you don't see Christians eating flesh or drinking blood?..what are you trying to say was my question ...
Again, the title was shock value to draw an audience. But the subject matter is real. Christians do eat bits of their god, which is what ritual cannibalism is all about. But they do drink the god's blood as well in the form of blessed wine. And they do it to have immortality, which is the same thing vampires supposedly do. Hence the title.
Come on Slarty. Yes. You must be right. The truth is out. It's why Christians can't leave the cult. They'd burn in the light. They can't digest real food. It's blood that sustains them. And, oh my gosh, the number of italian restaurants in America? Think of the garlic. A Christian couldn't go anywhere. Not to mention the mirrors. Everyone would immediately know they were Christian. The laws would have to change so everyone not christian could openly carry wooden stakes.
So many problems with changing the world. You should probably leave them in peace to drink the symbolic blood and eat the symbolic flesh. Because, really, think about the alternative. If you take it away they'll start stalking the night and preying on the rest of us.
Obviously the title was for shock value. But you should consider writing a story along those lines, it sounds like it would be fun.
I just feel that the similarity between ritualistic cannibalism, and the Eucharist ritual is too close to be ignored. Though most people are shocked and disgusted by ritual cannibalism they think eating Jesus flesh and drinking his blood is wonderful.
But they are doing nothing at all different from what cannibalistic tribes do/did. They are both taking in the other or the object of their desire. For tribes it is usually an attribute like long life, running fast, being a great statesmen, being a great warrior, etc.
Native tribes eat animals in the same way. Eat a bear and gain it's strength, etc.
For the Christians it is the promise of ever lasting life. They are eating their god to gain immortality.
But the twist is they also drink his blood for the same reasons, because to them it is life. Cannibals don't generally do that. It's a practice reserved for vampires, for the very same reason. lol....
I could go on about the ritualistic slaughter of Jesus, etc... but you get the point. The religion is barbaric, superstitious, and crazy.
Slarty, you know I've got some wierd relatives and they are fond of pointing out how heathen asl other christian are with their rituals. I always figured the interesting thing about the church'shistory was how it took pagan practices and wove them into the tapestry of their belief. Halloween, Christmas, etc.
I never thought about the wine and bread. I guess it is gross when you put it in that perspective. I like my reaction to your title better than yours. I don't fight the urge to barf.
I used to just block out the weird & contradictory things. Surprised you still believe after realising the bible can't be taken literally and all the pagan rituals etc
The assumptions of what others believe, or don't, amuse me here at times. I simply believe it is counter productive to develop the emotional need to bash others over ridiculous points.
Of course, when one does little more than offer and defend ridiculous beliefs, they obviously believe it counter productive to criticize and question them.
I didn't suppose it was, on some levels. I apologize if that sounded harsh. I'm slowly coming to see the angle some are coming from here. I'll be honest, I am uncomfortable with it. I'm glad I heard it all. It's been good for me. But most of the people posting religion here are perfectly happy with their delusion, or whatever you want to callet it. I just honestly would prefer to be happy without it. I don't want to reach the point where I come off as fretted about the perpetual lie. There's really nothing you can do to change their minds, unless they're hoping someone can present a good argument to change them.
The funny thing is, when I came here and saw a religious forum I thought, 'cool I hate church and here's some place to talk religion.' This whole experience has shown me what I already knew. I haven't believed in it in a long time. I was just mouthing empty words.it's quite sad, really
There probably are forums where one can have good meaningful discussions without the hysteria of these types of forums. But usually they cater to a particular group, and don't put up with intruders.
I have yet to see a forum that is open to everyone that is not a battle ground.
I don't think it's sad at all. We all have to discover our own way. You were never wasting your time. You were figuring it all out for yourself. How can you expect to come to a particular conclusion until you come to that conclusion?
To get over there you always have to start from here. Life is just a constant learning experience. Embrace change. It's the only constant.
For me these forms are home. I love the battle ground of the mind. Because thats what these places are like. You don't see anyone, so you almost talking mind to mind.
I would hate to see you not come to them. You are a good writer and a good influence here.
Oh, I'm a terrible influence. But I'm only sad right now. I was laughing about out this afternoon. I got an email from corporate, saying to send information about anything interesting going on in my life for their monthly newsletter. I rolled on the floor laughing at what they'd say if I told them. I'll find something to laugh at tomorrow.
It's life. Change is good as long as you're learning.
Right you are. Here. This might cheer you up. Something to tell corporate about.
sad because you realise you were fed a lie?
I read an encouraging book called "The atheist's way - living well without gods" by Eric Maisel. About having meaning in life without making the 'supernatural error'
Bailey bear. It was a simple lie. I don't need to wallow in grief over it, or claw my way out of depression. Yes, it is bizarre that it is a lie that has been perpetuated for so long. But, there are many lies those in power tell to lead people down the path they want them to go. The good thing about religion is it has no power to force you to believe in it. You see a truth, you walk away. It shouldn't be anything more than a eureka moment.
well, after feeling conflicted for a bit, as I researched deeper I got more eureka moments and had to laugh at how I was indoctrinated into all of this. I felt free as I came to learn that there is no historical evidence that Jesus (who I believed I loved - as my imaginary friend) even existed! And all the sects are heretics of each other. Plenty of christ figures before christianity evolved. Every culture has similar flood stories etc.
I then got up the courage to 'come out' that I no longer believe, which my family weren't initially happy about, but they've gotten over it now.
Guess I hang out on here still, because I find it fascinating how people believe what they do, plus I'm still learning lots of interesting stuff (about the history of religion etc).
Your relatives are right, of course. But they are just as crazy and don't know it.
You might be interested in a few hubs I did if you are interested in historical influences on Christianity. I did three, but the ones you might be interested in are: A brief history of the NT and The rise and fall of Christianity. The picture of Sol/Apollo is where Jesus gets his halo.
The bread and wine thing is gross. But you can put it into perspective if you see ritual cannibalism for what it is/was.
It's funny, but one of my main discoveries of life is that we are always trying to make things an actual part of ourselves. That's what love is, in fact. Ritual cannibalism and the Eucharist are just variations on that pattern.
Yes. Life is stranger than fiction.
The word Transubstantiation does not exist in the Bible. To partake of the sacrament is to be in obedience to the command of Jesus Christ and to allow members of his church the opportunity to demonstrate their willingness to remember his atoning sacrifice. It is also a renewal of the covenants one has made at baptism with the promise that we always remember him, and keep his comandments so that his spirit will always be with us.
Can I just say that this is the best question I've ever seen asked on here. I just spat my tea onto my keyboard!
Only going to write this once.
The blood is life. We must drink life in order to live. Christ is the way the truth and the life. We must drink Christ because He is the life.
Jesus is the Word which was with God and was God in the beginning. We must eat the Word for nourishment which is the Word of God and the flesh of Christ.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
That's what vampires would do.
That's what cannibals would do.
I have a perplexing question: Why doesn't the bible just say this? I wish the bible would just be clearer, but then I guess there would be no need for the bible-study industry.
And who are the dogs and swine that is referred to in the verse?
Then I will only post this twice.
53 Then Jesus said to them: "Amen, amen, I say unto you: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will raise him up in the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
Jesus does not agree with you, heretic.
To eat of Jesus flesh means to eat of the word. To drink his blood means to recieve. Jesus word are spirit and life. It is spiritual teaching. Jesus referred to himself as the bread of life. It is best to understand this passage in light of coming to Jesus, in faith, for salvation. When we recieve him as Savior, placing our full faith in him, we are consuming his flesh and drinking his blood. Jesus body was broken at his death and his blood was shed to provide for our salvation. 1Corinthians 11:7,"For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."
Well in point of fact it has many meanings. Four book deal with it in different ways. But John is clear. Are you calling John and Jesus liars? Really?
Slarty, I respectfully disagree. It has only one meaning which is a spiritual meaning. "Jesus words is spirit and life." Some are viewing it in different ways because their spiritual eyes are closed. I will not waste time answering your question after explaining above what the passage mean. I know that christians are not vampires, so I am not offended when you and others label us as one. Have a good day.
Well. The problem is it is in black and white. It says what it says. I suggest you are interpreting the way you do because you don't like what it says.
Your suggestion is an assumption. I have no problem at all with the spritual true meaning of the passage. I love the bible and I love you.
even if it is not to be taken literally (as it seems to be in this passage), and is a 'spiritual' metaphor, it's a gory one
...consuming his flesh & drinking his blood....that sounds so cannabalistic
Bailey, It sounds cannabalistic to people who love to jump to their own false interpretations.
And, of course, no matter how ridiculous this sounds, you will blindly believe it isn't a pagan, ritualistic cult practice, just because you would rationalize anything if your leaders told you that God sed it.
I don't recieve from leaders if their words are not lining up with the word of God. You are making false assumptions of me. My faith is not a cult practice. I will leave you to argue with yourself. I love you.
I wrote a hub about a christian off-shoot cult that took the verses in the bible about being the bride of christ to mean imagining they were having sex with him
That's laughable, but believers are always willing to believe and follow anything that their charlatan leaders command them to believe.
If it is not a Vampire cult, it has missed a perfect chance!
it has been sucking the life out of the masses for years!!!!!
Vampire cult maybe, but I don't see how we're so secret about it.
A BIG NO!...It's just their own way on remembering Jesus and how He forgives and cleans people's sins.
I'm starting to lose track of which Biblical stories and passages are "metaphorical" and which are "literal."
And where does the metaphor end? Maybe the interpretation of the metaphor is ITSELF a metaphor! Oh boy, talk about a can of worms...
Why can't God just tell it like it is? He was pretty politically incorrect back in the Old Testament, so why can't he just be straight with everybody? What's his game? What is he hiding?
and how can people tell if it's meant to be a metaphor? Talking in puzzles to just confuses people
God is God. He created the Universe, therefore He can make the rules.
"Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, Or as His counselor has informed Him? With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding? And who taught Him knowledge, And informed Him of the way of understanding?" Isaiah 40:14,15
Of course he can make the rules. I never said that he couldn't. But that doesn't answer my question. WHY does he muddy his supposedly divine message? Just to screw with people? What is his game?
I did not say you said he can not make the rules. It's just that we can not put human emotions on God. God is not a human being. He reveals what He wants to by His Holy Spirit. I don't know everything there is about God myself. No human does. I guess God likes to give us mysteries to make life interesting and to urge us to seek after Him.
Thank you for your post. I wish you well.
It seems pretty silly to devote one's entire life to something so uncertain and poorly understood, doesn't it?
"I guess God likes to give us mysteries to make life interesting and to urge us to seek after Him."
Few rational or sane people are "urged" to seek after something that doesn't make any sense.
If I told you "Everything you believe is wrong. I have the truth... the truth is in the walnut." Would you be urged to seek after this walnut truth of mine? Or would you be simply momentarily entertained by my silly claims?
Sorry to bash your assumptions but I do not sit around contempating my navel! I do have a life. I am a business owner and contrary to the stereotypical assumptions by some Atheist about Christians or others that believe in a Higher Power I'm not some backward toothless uneducated hic. I have a BA in Business Administration with a major in Marketing.
What you want or do not want to believe is up to you. I just state what I believe and I am not hostile to those who have different opinions than I do. So secularist10, why the hostility? Did I scoff at you? I don't think so!
Why do some Atheist have to feel that they have to "proove" their point instead of accepting the fact that others may disagree with them. Sometimes when people are not so certain about what they believe they get down right hostile when confronted with a different viewpoint because hey feel a lost of controll in their lives.
And yes, I do wish you well and I thank you for your comments. Being tolerant does not mean you have to agree.
Your god does not run anything in my life thankfully.
He ALLOWS you to take every breath, sir. Sounds to me like He runs plenty in your life.
"He" is a figment of your imagination sir.
Interesting that when you have no real comeback, you show off your maturity.
I don't relate to your opinion of me, it is none of my business.
If you would like a comeback I suggest you watch the whole series of Lawrence Krauss's lectures to his peers. Never heard of him? How about reading "The hedonistic imperative" or study the bible fully as I have.
You should 'fully' do another study of the Bible.
No thank you! I wasted 2 years of my life the last time. If you want to argue about what I know about the bible, bring it on, I know the bible very well and would be happy to discuss it.
I don't want to argue about what you know concerning the Bible. However, if you want to discuss what you know, let's go. I notice you often boast of your Boble knowledge, but what profit is there in simply knowing the Bible, even very well? Satan knows the Bible better than you and I, but it obviously has not profited him at all.
Ah, one of the "answers for everything" believers. Been there, done that. The devil is yet another figment of your imagination.
I don't boast, I stick with the truth and false modesty is a sickness I don't suffer from.
I mention my bible knowledge when I feel it is necessary, as when someone who thinks they know it all and talks down to others as if they have never seen a bible.
Your version of the bible and the meaning you derive from it is not the same for any of you who are religious, you read it and are told what it means by your particular segment of your religion, and advised by your religious peers in your denomination.
Your particular belief has no more validity than any other religion. It is indoctrinated belief, and without it you, like other religionists have to think for yourselves. As far as I can see, that is a task beyond capacity.
And just look at all the different denominations that have sprung from this one BIBLE. Apparently no one knows the bible, and you saying that you know it, is just another delusional statement.
I agree, no one has a full understanding of this or that other tome. My studies showed me that the bible can be used to say whatever we want it to mean.
It is just a matter of how far one is willing to stretch it to fit any dogma.
Are you contradicting yourself again? Just last night you said you'd done a full study of the Bible. Shouldn't your full study have produced full understanding? Now you say 'no one has full understanding of this or that other tome.' Which is it?
A good question. You are right of course, I knew before I wrote it that you would inquire. My understanding of the bible is like yours and many others. The difference is that unlike your good self, I have not drawn a single doctrine from it then based my life around that as a system of belief, henceforth reading only through that filter. I concede that no person I have ever known could claim to know what another can derive from reading anything in the "good" book.
The bible is so massively diverse, it has been patched and hashed by church "scholars" centuries ago to fit a dogma which suited their denominations and held beliefs.
Context interpretation is still the method used by church "scholars" today in a pitiful attempt to remain relevent in a modern world.
The elephant in the room is that religion justifies a well understood well proven illness. It is this point where the bible hangs itself.
It is megalomanic to have a personal god when others don't for a good reason. Imposed superiority is an illness, as is megalomania as in beliefs like "you will go to hell if my god thinks you should," or worse, if I think you should.
It is sociopathic to murder a whole people. It is psychotic to force people to worship as the god does, and pathetic as well.
It is neurotic to support such ideas. I am writing another hub as the sister to my hub "The biblical god is a psychopath" It will attempt to illuminate what a truely omnipotent omnipresent omniscient god's behavior would be like.
You have made some very good points. Can you name any of these church "scholars" and what centuries they 'patched and hashed'? Is it not megalomanical, psychotic, pathetic as well, and neurotic to berate those who believe in the God of the Bible, then accuse them of doing the same to you?
It is whatever you see it as, the same here. I simply bring a psychological viewpoint to the discussion.
Yes, I can go and find the data, but feel there is no need to, most of what I have said is well enough known to be found by those interested in researching the bible's history.
What I would like to know is on what basis do you dismiss the claims I have made about the biblical god story and why it is none of the things I mentioned.
I see no where in the Bible where we all told to branch off into denominations. DENOMINATIONS ARE MAN-MADE. However, even they do not take away from of the validity of the Word of God.
O.K. What do you know? Please state your points and references. Did you study the Bible in its original languages Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek? Remember when words are translated from one language to another some things get lost in the translation. So can anyone really understand everything in the Bible? I don't agree with you but I like your spunk!
Christianity is not a secret vampire cult, nor any other kind of cult.
yolanda, Agreed. Christianity is having fellowship with God. Christianity is about believing that Christ died for on the cross as payment for our sins and rose again. No matter how hard one try, they can never put down Christianity.
Call me dense, but I don't quite get this:
"Christianity is about believing that Christ died for on the cross as payment for our sins and rose again."
So Christ's death is payment for our sins. Payment to whom?
Christianity sees Christ as the sacrifice for the sins of humans, in the same mold as animals were sacrificed to nullify sins in the Old Testament. To whom were the animals sacrificed? To God, of course. Ok, so then Christ is a sacrifice to God for humanity's sins. But wait... I thought Christ was God? So is God paying himself? With himself? That would be quite a logical bind. Seems kind of strange.
If so, why would God need to pay himself? Isn't he God? He surely doesn't need or want anything, right? Because if he did, then he wouldn't be perfect, and if he's not perfect, he can't be God.
And anyway, Christ's death is payment for our sins. In the OT, animals were sacrificed because, among other reasons, animals had value to people. But what value does Christ's life have to people? Sure, he was a nice guy, but there are a lot of nice guys in the world. How come none of them gets to be counted as a "sacrifice" when they're killed?
And so on, and so on... lol
Would you even dare ask a similiar question about the Muslim faith or bring up the possibility of them practicing cannabalism? I doubt it. Some Iman would probably start a fatwa against you if you did!
Nah! All the threat I have had were made by bible bashers. I gave the quoran the biggest serve in one of my hubs. Don't bother looking for it, you won't even like the title, and it's buried at the end of my hublist.
So earnestshub, what "death threats" have you received from Christians? I don't wish you ill! Haven't you noticed the violent reactions when Mohammad is depicted by a cartoonist in an unflattering way or when a rumor is spread that someone tried to flush the Quoran down the toilet? What my point was is that many people are afraid to say boo when it comes to Islam because they fear the reaction but they don't think about making libelist claims about Christianity because that is considered "Politically Correct"--there are no violent consequences for doing do.
I will check your hublist you have peeked my curiosity!
Iman? The supermodel? Gee, I didn't know she was that passionate about cannibalism or the Muslim faith.
Well, if this was 200 or 300 years ago, then yes, probably there would be a real physical threat posed by certain Christians.
But because Christians have become secularized in the last few centuries, they have become more docile.
Yep ! is it kinda like that. Religion and a faith in GOD ain't the same thing!
I wish Atheist and Theist wouldn't keep forgeting that
are you kidding me,who let out the secret. I've been alive for 3000 years and since the age of 15 I havent told a single soul. MAN UP!!!! who did it you'll for the consequences!!!!!!!! lmao
I have one piece of input on this subject. I strongly suggest the authors of these posts read the book "the Celestine Prophesy" It might explain a lot about this whole discussion, especially the 4th insight.
incidentally, Lets just say hypothetically the points of the Fundamentalist's posts, are true, and It is all Metaphors. It still occurs to me to be a bit of a graphic or grotesque pictorial image to use, even to get that point across??? and just seems to be very ironic that it does resemble so closely vampirism. just seems disconcerting to me from the "son of the God of love"???
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