Shall we assume like Satan is a part of GOD?

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mobilemaniacposted 13 years ago
In other words the one(Satan/Devil) who can plan things only according to or with God.Without God Satan him/it self cant exist.
Take all examples from Bible.God allows all temptations to human.If he truly wants to avoid that he should have given human some extra power.Isn't it??Case of Adam and eve,Judas' case all support this theory
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  AEvansposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God does not make us tempt ourselves, we has humans make our own choices. We know right from wrong and as for Satan he was a fallen angel of God so without God he would not exist;therefore since I believe in God he does exist.
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  CollBposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've read the Bible since as a child and what I've come to realise is that Satan/the Devil is mentioned along with evil and the 6 other deadly sins. Without understanding what evil and Satan is, we cannot see the goodness of God and his creation as we need comparisons to grasp that concept of Good (over Evil), Love over Hate, Peace over War, God empowering Satan and victory over evil.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nice post, but the last statement seems odd. If god empowers satan, then good triumphs over evil, it sounds like a game with loaded dice. Why bother playing the game if you empower something just to defeat it? Of course you're going to ensure however you empower your adversary he's weaker than you. It doesn't prove any valuable point.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good does triumph over evil because God IS triumphant over the devil. It's NOT A GAME. He (God) did not empower satan just to defeat him, he created Lucifer (who is now satan) to be with him eternally. The fact that God overpowers satan and lords it over Him cannot be helped, for God is the Creator and none of His creation can ever out-power Him.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say it was a game. I said it sounded like a game with loaded dice. Now it sounds even more bizarre by your description. He creates an adversary to fight, making him in such a way that he can best him. Then, once the inevitable happens, he lords it over him? That's your theory?
  
  If god is the creator and none of his creation can beat him; what, exactly, is the point? This makes no sense. Unless you're saying it's a game Satan is in on, already knows the outcome and is simply playing along to teach a moral lesson?
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I answered you in my previous post. Make of that whatever you will.
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I was simply attempting to understand your statement. I am left to assume you meant what you said, exactly as you said it. I still find it odd.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have the right to find it odd.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yolanda try to understand what i meant.Do you think God was aware that lucifer(first angel) will betray him?your answer make me that sense.If so you are saying like you are Contradicting your own statement -God make victory over all-Because he is the super power who knows every thing.If he was unaware about what is going to happen next like after creation of Adam n Eve,after creation of Lucifer-How can we say like he is Super power who knows everything?
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ya that is a nice concept -playing a game just to defeat one whom he only created.but in that way first statement-Satan is a part of God? comes true.Isnt it?
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess her theory would support your statement. I don't know. I don't think I ever believed in Satan. It never made much sense. If heaven were perfect then why would an angel leave? You'd assume he knew his god had created him and that god was all powerful. It doesn't seem like an intelligent move to make to buck a system whose end is predetermined.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi nice answer
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  jamterrellposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I like your post.
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  yolanda yvetteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Great answer.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The bible says both. Which is why it is so contradictory. It tells us god does not tempt man kind and it tells us he does.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, "we" shall not assume Satan's a part of God.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  please comment your theories Brenda
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The simple answer...Any object that has a creator is part of that creator.
  
  Is a Picasso Painting called anything but a Picasso?
  
  So, we are left with two options. One, satan was created by god and therefore is a part of god, which leads to the conclusion that god is both "good" and "evil". Or two, satan always was, just as god always was, which leads to the conclusion that there are in fact two gods, one "good" and one "evil"
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If we are supporting the second theory one can't say as god is super power then they seems as are parallel forces.Usually all believers who believes in Lord likes to believe eventually he can defeat Satan.In that case again it suport that God made everythih including Satan.So first theory is better.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is impossible for god to defeat satan. (good defeats evil). If evil is defeated and is no more, then the only thing left is "heaven". If all evil is gone; there is no hell, there is no sin, and everyone by default will go to heaven.
  
  In the Book of Revelations, it is said that satan would be bound 1000 years and then released for a short time to rule and gather his armies. This would mean, that there is going to be a period of time, prior to the "return of christ" when satan will not be around to "corrupt/tempt" any souls.
  
  There is only one way for this event to occur, god has to allow it. This means that god will allow evil to rule the earth. If you read Revelations carefully, you will notice that the believers are still on earth.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ya that is exactly what i meant
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  vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You think evil is normal???
  
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i didnt mention like that.Evil is not normal.But i said we cant blame Satan for that.
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  vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, but Satan is responsible for tempting people.
  
  We are responsible for listening to the crap he tempts us with.
  
  Just as the perverse person that persuades the child to do something wrong such as hit other children is guilty of doing so.
  
  The child was confused by the adult that offered an idea that would bring pain to another child. The child didn't understand at first the effects of his actions.
  
  But the child becomes responsible if he comes to understand it brings pain and continues to do the evil deed.
  
  This is why forgiveness is given by God. We are all children and no one is alike. We all perceive things differently through different circumstances.
  
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Incorrect, "Satan" (note the cap S) is NOT responsible, because "It" does not exist.
  
  According to the Teacher: "Men are tempted by the thoughts in them and the desire of those thoughts (flesh/the corruptible)."
  
  James
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  why should you blame men for their own bad thoughts and praise God for their good thoughts.I think according to your opinion if a man acts bad you will blame him not Satan.But what about if he act wisely.Credit goes to God?If you are quoting from Bible think at the same time it should be luke that-we ourselves are responsible for our good doings also.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  I don't "blame" man for their thoughts, nor praise "god" for their thoughts. Why would I condemn or praise men for doing what is bad or good? That is silly. Mans own mind IS ha-satan. There is not such entity named Satan chasing 7.4 billion living humans (not to forget the billions from the start) and making a muck of their lives. The mind was a tool given to man, so he would be free to do amazing things. Having indulged the thoughts of his mind, he is now a slave to them, a pattern of self and ultimately a destruction of self, should man continue to be enslaved by his mind.
  
  James.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't? Do you watch the news because it is all about flowers, sugars and spice and everything nice? Or, do you watch it because of the carnage and you are interested in what is negatively happening around the world. "Good and evil" is a normal part of our everyday world. Now, the moral implications of "good and evil" that is a different matter all together.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Eventhough one saying some news very unortunate , i think there is one part in us which like that.Isnt it??We are tryig to enjoy unconsciously because we know normally it is not a good thing-a matter of Good vs evil which-what is good and what is evil-that deep rooted concept-exists in all of us sure.So consciously we cant enjoy that.But for that either we are coming to unconscious mind directly or try to create such a situation by any stimulation luke drug/alcohol etc.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If evil wasn't the norm, there would be no need for police. Just because a person is morally opposed to evil, doesn't mean that it isn't a normal part of our daily lives. If evil wasn't the norm, then there would be no sin. And those who claim we sin everyday would be wrong. Being evil and living among evil things is two different things.
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  vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Evil is normal for those who are evil and accept it as a part of them.
  
  I grew up hating the pain resulting from evil. And still do today. It's one of the reasons why I love everyone.
  
  Evil brings everything bad and painful.
  
  If you want that for your children then continue your endorsement.
  
  The world is not normal. Cereal killers are normal to you?
  
  I'll keep with love. You pick your own view.. You can't have both as they conflict. And when two things collide, one must give.
  
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  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They're not killing Captain Crunch are they? Man, I hope not.
  
  As to evil, Double Scorpion is right on the mark. To deny the existence of what are defined as evil acts is to turn a blind eye to the reality of the world we live in.
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  vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say it didn't exist. I said it should not be that way.
  
  I hope no one seriously endorses the idea that we should be evil in any way...
  
  That is ridiculous. And would explain why our world is so crappy..
  
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  vector, I hope not either.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously, Do you not read? I said evil is a normal part of life around us. Choosing to partake of it, that is the difference. I do not endorse evil, but I am not so blind as to think there is no evil in the world around me. And I never said that being evil was a "normal" state of mind.
  
  Edit: I wanted to add, maybe I am not stating my points in my responses correctly. If that is the case, please accept my apologies for being short with you in some of my responses. I will try to clarify any mix-ups in communications.
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  vector7posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't worry DS.. I'm not trying to attack you. Just the idea I thought I seen.
  
  And I appreciate that. It's quite alright. Everyone can get frustrated with misunderstandings.
  
  I simply meant that evil IS there. But we shouldn't just "accept" it.
  
  No one would accept the person who kills their loved one.
  
  And on the same side of the line is every other deed akin to and leading up to that horrible thing that hurts people and their families.
  
  There is a problem in the world with everyone believing that a little bit of evil isn't that bad. They say "it's a part of us."
  
  This is only true if they accept it. You can only have one or the other.
  
  It is either you are good. Or you are evil.
  
  You are either clean water. Or you are dirty water. Even if there is only a little bit of dirt... It's STILL dirty water. It's contaminated..
  
  With accepting both to be a part of you, one of the "parts" of that person will give in from one time to the other.
  
  Sometimes the love will win.. Sometimes the evil.. And I don't want to hurt anyone, and evil ALWAYS hurts someone. That's what evil is, it is the destruction of things that are good.
  
  Selfishness and pride are the things that evil promote. And that isn't normal no matter what people say. Maybe the common attitude in this world. But in deep thought and consideration any reasonable logical person can see that evil is NOT normal and is destruction at it's worst.
  
  This is why I love everyone. Because God is love. And love is life and happiness and everything good. I don't want pain for my children, nor does anyone else. Evil has been made to look like something we need.
  
  We DO NOT NEED EVIL.. We need to get rid of it. It's an infestation into this world. And I know there are people that don't believe in the Bible. But this subject is one of the prime reasons that I must believe in the word of God. It's because it makes soooo much sense that I just couldn't ignore it.
  
  Well... Maybe that covers my view a little..
  
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I understand where you are coming from.
  
  I don't agree 100%, but we are, of course, different people.
  
  I think, maybe, it isn't so much that we disagree, per se, maybe we are just viewing it differently.
  
  Good discussion anyway it goes.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  vector, If anyone believes that a little bit of evil isn't that bad, they are just trying to justify their actions in order to feel it's the right thing to do. I remember hearing this true song. "There is no right way to do wrong."
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said
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  dsiantposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Mobilemaniac,
  Lets get things right here once and for all
  All man are BEFORE GOD, and nothing else, Just this, DO NOT TRY TO REINVENT the wheel, just make sure we as human beings, just make sure that we are honest to god good and make sure that we are all in the best of health.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey iam not saying about our honesty towards God.I also support you regarding that.But the question is the other part is a completely -well planned game?/
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Satan is a Christian invention. Probably to do with the fact that the Romans were sun worshipers. All sun worshiping religions see light as good and darkness as evil. The fight between the sun and the dark is an eternal struggle for dominance.
  
  For those of you who don't know your history, Satan in the Jewish texts is god's right hand. To the Jews he was the accuser. Jewish scholars see him in Job as representing gods doubt. There is nowhere in the OT or any cannon that tells of a fallen angel. It is in a text neither the Jews or Christians recognize as part of their bibles. But the story survives and you all assume it is in there somewhere. Show me in the OT where there is evidence of a war in heaven between satan and god. It isn't there. Or of how satan was thrown out of heaven. It's not in there.
  
  So basically modern christians have taken a non-biblical reference as if it is biblical.
  
  Ever wonder where Jesus get's his halo? It's from being crossed with Sol by Constantine even after he converted Rome to Christianity. He believed in Sol and Mithra, two sun gods. He made Sunday a holiday, not for the Christians sabbath, for the SUN'S day. He wrote an edict which compelled christian and sun worshiper alike to celibate Sol. He made Jesus birthday the same as Sol's birthday.
  
  So Christians are sun worshipers who don't know it, but have taken on the sun worshipers idea of light vs darkness as part of their religion.
  
  It's really a shame Christians don't know their own history and don't care.
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  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very well said.
  
  I'm currently reading up on Jewish theology and what an eye opener it is. So much Christian doctrine on satan, hell, fall of man, just crumbles away.
  
  The church has abandoned 4000 years of Jewish thought and theology in favour of pagan belief systems and superstition.
  
  What we should have got was:
  Christianity = Judaism - the Mosaic law + Christ fulfilling the law.
  But what we got was:
  Christianity = a smooth blend of Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and Greco roman paganism.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Religious History. I find it really interesting. It is amazing the things you can find out, if you only take the time to research your past.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you. And when you finish that, you might want to also look into the influences the Babylonians and Sumerians had on Judaism. There is no pure religion. All of them are influenced by and crossed with other religions and philosophies. I love history.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Human societies do get influenced by one another; we live in the same planet and we have to co-exist here peacefully.
  
  Another reason of similarities in religions is being all of them in origin from ONE-TRUE-GOD; so naturally the similarities.
  
  The difference happens due to the time factor; to err is human; so they tend to forget the original message; then the Creator-God reveals the message again to a messenger prophet; out of His mercy for benefit of the human beings.
  This is how human society improves or evolves ethically, morally and sipiritually.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. But I wouldn't say it is because of one true god. It is because we all share the same reality. We just interpret it differently. We are all human so we share needs and desires. We share one nature, and to me that nature is what others call god.
  
  But I agree with the pattern you outlined. Just not the interpretation of it.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We all share the same reality as the reality is ONE-TRue-God or it is from Him; otherwise it would have been all chaos.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. Nature is order due to cause and effect. No god required.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cause and effect work together only as the Creator-God has set them in motion; otherwise they need not exist.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nature is the creator. But it is not a consciousness. There is really no other god required.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you name nature the creator; it is a misnomer. If as you say nature creates with unconsciousness; then it cannot create. Creating involves consciousness among so many other things.
  
  Perhaps you don't want to name it God or instead of naming God you name it Nature.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nature is a process. So it does create. But usually we say it produced us rather than created us. Science gives ample proof that nature is creative. There is no difference between something created by consciousness and something created through natural process. In fact, consciousness is a creation of natural process.
  
  I can call it god and have. It is the same thing. That which created or produced us by definition god.
  
  The only question is, is it a consciousness or an unconscious process? There is no evidence to support a conscious being as god. But there is more than enough evidence and common sense in the idea that nature is our creator/producer.
  
  Until a need is found for an outside god, it is pure speculation. No conscious god is needed for the universe to be exactly as it is.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nature is the lowest expression (optic/manifest) of Creator --the Hebrew word for that is Elohim of which man is titled elohim (the sum of all nature)-- which is why it is terribly difficult for humans to grasp it; Science deems the tangible as evidence (the seen/the optic) and defines it as creator; sensation deems a singular entity within creation as creator, who is intangible.
  
  Yet Creator is tangible, intangible and in-between.
  
  If one considers it: creation is merely the breath of Creator -the entire span of the universe and everything in it.
  
  Creation is a process --a process of illumination.
  Imagine blowing a bubble and everything in it contains your breathe, that would be the sum of the universe. Your breath contains the identical vibrato of yourself. Its very essence is you and is sustained by that essence --that essence is sentient and everything within aware/conscious of itself, just as you are aware of yourself and the bubble you created...
  
  James.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  While your theories are interesting, they are esoteric. I don't believe or relate to the idea that the universe is gods breath. But then I'm not Jewish.
  
  Sensation you speak of is imagination. My sensation does not deem a singular entity within creation as creator. Nature is tangible and intangible and in between.
  
  I'm also not on the same page with you about creation being a process of illumination, and do not see how you can know breath contains an identical vibrato of yourself, or any part of your last few sentences. Do you have evidence of any of it? And I don't mean optic evidence necessarily. logic will do.
  
  But unless this conscious god shows up, there is no way you can know it exists. Therefore it is a speculative idea at best, while nature, or the process of existence is not.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes. Have you ever studied chaos? Chaos breeds order. Look up spin-glass. Conflict always produces a new order. Why? Because conflict always demands a resolution. Wars can not last forever because resources run out. When that happens, a resolution is found. Either a direct win by side or he other, a deal, or a stalemate. A new order always arises from conflict.
  
  And why is that? It is due to the laws of conservation. All atoms and thereby all things tend toward reaching their lowest possible levels of energy output.
  
  Energy can not be CREATED and it can not be destroyed. Therefore no conscious super being is required.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi reality is God means -the power-we can call it by any name.
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think or it as the process of existence.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nice theories : )
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Science facts!
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi Starty,
  nice post.even the concept of God as light is also man made.because basically human fear darkness so when they first found fire they started worship it as God.Ahey satrted worship sun also
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. You are correct.
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  Moonchild60posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Who ever said God could not exist without Satan? Is it in a book MEN wrote and are we somehow obligated to believe these men? Odd...
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God could not exist without Satan.that is a tricky question .Think deeply about that.Any one can understand.Imagine a world full of love.No we cant think about that(At that time there wont be the word love : ) if only one feeling is there we cant call it as love).(Assumption here is that Satan stands for all bad things
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  Moonchild60posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is balance. Good and evil. Happy and sad. Rich and poor. Up and Down. In and Out. High and Low. Shallow and Deep. On and on it goes... Satan is made up. Made up to frighten. Just like the "God will punish you" nonsense. Yes, there cannot be good without evil. But man is evil all on his own, he doesn't need someone else to blame it on. Evil is in our nature just as good is. God gave us free will to choose between the two. You want to talk about an all knowing, loving entity, fine. But he doesn't require an adversary.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nice post.Your theories are good regarding those balace.But i cant agree if you saying man is evil on his own.There is also a balance or there should be.How can we exclude only man from that theory-Even if he is doing something evil i think in the next moment he can think of a divine thing.right moonchild?
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  Moonchild60posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, man can do something horrible and in the next breath something sweet and wonderful. Both men and women are capable of the miraculous switch in a heart beat. Most of us however, prefer not to, or were raised a certain way and would never be comfortable doing it or just don't have it in our personalities to be cruel or mean or vicious, etc. But no matter how horrible something I might do is, I would never say "The Devil made me do it". It was within my own "self" to do something wrong. Not an outside influence. Just as it is in me to do wonderful things I love doing and not because God exists. I do what I do for the love of others, and it makes me happy. Just as being cruel would cause me extensive pain and make me depressed. That is me. Others I am sure have their own reasons. Additionally, when something goes wrong, I do not blame God or the Devil.
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  Shahid Bukhariposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Satan, is one of the d'Ginns ... Created by God ...
  The accursed Satan, has, an accursed' composed following, and progeny.
  
  Satan is, because ... A Created d'Ginn's "doubting" ... The All Knowing Creator's Known ...
  
  And God's Created, cannot be a "part" of God ... for such, Is the attribute, of a created, god ...
  
  God, Is, The Almighty Creator, of all that Exists, In, His Ordination ...
  
  The Human, Is the second of God ... The Human Hath been Granted, a Perfect Mind ... The Human Hath been Granted a Free Will, and Limbs to enforce the Free will ... For, the Human is Born Free, In Creation ... The Human can do as the Human, Pleases ... almost, as a god, in The Lord's Granted Life
  
  And ...
  
  The Power, "like" the Power of The Creator, Is, In Correct Belief, thus, in Righteous human Actions ...
  
  Meaning, the Humans Have been Granted the Power... In ... Following The Lord's Ordained Way of Peace, in Life ... Human, hath been Taught, how to be just, and humane, merciful, and beneficent, towards fellow humans.
  
  The Correct Way to Believe Hath also, been Shown ... Islam.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  can you post in a simple manner?I think you are quoting too much from Holy books.It will be better if we saying all these things from our own experience or findings-that may be right or wrong-leave it-but post your own opinion.Quoting from one book means that is not ur opinion.You are just following it that all.I think all posting in this forum read all those Holybooks.So no need to explain these teachings to them
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  Shahid Bukhariposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear friend
  
  I cannot have Personal Opinions about Creation ... I have to post The Stated Truth, within the context of my Experienced ...
  
  Because, I cannot quote Playboy, Einstein or Stud in these matters...
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  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yep, the devil & god are not logical for those reasons cited.
  
  apparently the devil was only allowed to act under god's permission, so yes, it's still god's fault. If god alone can create everything then god made the devil.
  
  God and devil are part of the black & white world of religion - evil vs good, light vs dark, hot vs cold, love vs hate.
  There is never in between. It's very primitive thinking
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yes.Then you saying no God and Satan?
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  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  correct
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lovemychrisposted 13 years ago
Absolutely!
And, he turns into an Angel of Light at the end of his "tour of duty".
It's all part of a big lesson we have to learn, imo.Or re-discover maybe.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi lovemychris
  
  At that day(end of his tour of duty) you know what happens?If Satan turns into an angel it will create more problems.Please think about it that without all these negative emotions positive things have no meaning.It is like the two sides of coin.Can you feel peace if you havent experienced war?Can you experience joy if you dont know about hate.If your answer is yes,at that moment we cant call that experience peace/joy.Because without its counterpart those words will lose its meaning
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  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you can experience peace if you do not know war. I think you can know good having never experienced evil. You just appreciate good and peace more if you have experienced the opposite. But they can exist without each other.
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kessposted 13 years ago
God is all thing including satan who is merely a pawn in his game.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that is one psychotic game!
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi earnesthub, yes that is..all these are parts of that big game that human cant understand :-)
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mobilemaniacposted 13 years ago
Hi Evans
you say without God Satan wont exist.But what about God without Satan.We all say God is full of love but if Satan is not there what about Adam and Eve's story/what about Christ's Death and resurrection.That means entire Christianity depends on that.right?So without Satan God also have no exist.If so,God will be full of love no hate on earth.Full of positie things then no problems on earth.But at the same time love will lose its meaning.Without hate what is meaning of love?Without 'anger' what is the relevence of 'peace'?So for all these things one negative power is needed it may be Satan or whatever we call.So only i said like these all are part of the game

@kess i agree with you
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
[ha] satan: adverse; not fully illuminated; limited; at odds with; darkened; satiric; enmity; opposed to; a position of stand-off; resistant; being of a partiality; conditional; divided;

Although apart of all things, dark is adverse to light.
[ha]satan, the human mind, is at odds || adverse || not fully illuminated || partial || at enmity with light/creation { the vibrato of Creator }.

James.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi twenty one days,
  can you simplify your writings?i didnt understand you correctly.Anyway do you agree on Gods presence everywhere?If so what about the existence of Satan.I think all believers have to agree that but at the same time if so who is present in Satan??God?Try to understand that first sentence then becomes contradictory to itself in a manner that then you have to admit God is present In Satan also.If so again,God is also responsible for his doings?if not like God is not present in him we cant say like he is the Super power.am i right?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  mobile,
  
  satan (ha-satan) in Hebrew is a Verb, not a noun.
  ha-satan is directed at the human opposition to truth (which is the vibrato of Creator) --his words-- all around them and in them.
  
  There is no "Entity" or "Angel" named "Satan" written anywhere in Torah. Nor is there any Entity named "Lucifer" mentioned anywhere in Torah, the 4-Gs or the Letters. does not exist.
  
  The adjective in Latin Vulgate --which is where the present translation of the text comes-- (lucem ferre or lucis ferre ) means: light bearer, deliverer of information; messenger. You could say fiber optics are lucem ferre, if you catch my meaning. Also, note, it refers often to Venus --the morning star and also as Y`shua, the light of the world.
  
  Creator is everywhere and everything. The human ha-satan, Creator is there, trying to illuminate their opposition, remove the partition/partiality, division, enmity between.
  
  So, there is no "individual super being v a fallen angel".
  It is humanities resistance to what they were designed to be. What Creator was reflecting in them --himself.
  
  James.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Y'achoo. Shaitan?
  
  Marcus.
  
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  t i s h ... y o u ?
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Shaitan?Is that the correct word?
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi are you saying like at the same time two different entities can exist in one place as you said in your post?
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi all reply@twenty one days : )
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am saying NO such Entities exist, with regard to the belief system.
  
  1. No such entity Lucifer or Satan exists.
  2. No such iconic deity title a god or God. That is idolatry.
  
  Creator is way beyond doctrines and icons, I assure you.
  
  what exists are the three known parameters of Creators breathe.
  Tangible light
  Intangible light
  Optic light.
  
  ( i remember --unless incorrect-- the text refers to it a rhema, imrah and logos )
  
  Darkness is simply light non-optic. it is light in disorder or out of sequence with other light sequences/words.
  
  Make sense?
  James.
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Tony L Smithposted 13 years ago
Do you make people love and cherish you? or do you love them and desire that they love you out of their hearts and not out of duty. If you desired friendship, would you make a robot to love you? He had to give man a choice..
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi tony i also agree with you God gave us choice but iam asking the ending is pre defined why this thing?
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  Tony L Smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  this thing, you mean satan?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Creator-God does have the knowledge as to what is going to happen in the future; that does not mean that he forces one to that end.
  
  If a man throws himself out from a high rise building and gets killed; the man has done it himself; the Creator-God has not done it.
  
  Having knowledge of something is different from predestination.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hi then assume God knows one 's destiny then how can we escape from that?As you said one mans throws himself from a building and that was predefined why you blame that man?if he doesnt do that God's planning fail right?Or are you saying like whatever happens natuarally is the plan o God.Understand that anyway you cannot give supporting theories for that.If God exists we can only feel that presence slightly.Either we cant bear that or we need to ilift up ourselves to that level.It is beyond our imagination.So you can not give theories to prove its existance whatever you try sure there will be a oppsing theory or vice versa : -)
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever happens naturally happens because it takes place within the plan of life set by the Creator-God. Freedom of Choice or free will falls within the purview of this plan of life set and evolved under principles made by the Creator-God.
  If one denies God; that one can do within the plan of life; that is your choice. If one makes a wrong choice willfully; one is going to get its bad results within the natural plan set by the Creator-God.
  
  One can pray to God to save himself from the vagaries of nature before its happening.
  
  Impossible could become possible by prayers, within that plan, done beforehand.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
Shall we assume like Satan is a part of GOD?

Devil or Stan is not a part of the Creator-God.
Yes, Satan is a part of the life plan or part of the free will or free choice.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you mean free will means completely about mans choice.Then how can God knows its ending?If he knowe he only creates that in mans mind.This way you are saying contradictory statements.Think and understand anyways you can not give theories which supports your statements as i said earlier its beyond all imagination and thinking.If you want to believe in God just believe just believe thats all.And you can go to a buildings top and then again to some somewhat height using a ladder but again sky seems away.The same concept.If anyone asks its there?Yes.But difficult to prove.If you want just experience it : )
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Tony L Smithposted 13 years ago
You know its possible to be in God but not have God in you
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ya i know.But what you meant by "not have God in me" .Realize its not something that is an external power-God is everywhere.Even in a sinner God will be there.So only its said that all bad people are not doing bad things the whole time nor good people are doing good things the whole dayAccording to bible its mentioned that two oppsing powers(God /satan) cant present at one place simultaneously(No one can serve two masters at a time).Like he exists everywhere why does he exist in Satan?Then only he can conquer Satan.Yes??? : ) : )
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  Tony L Smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yes only God can conquer satan. He has delegated that athourity to us. On our own satan is to much for us, but as the big truck is to much for a traffic cop to stop, it becomes no problem when he is under athourity and in uniform.
  Another thought, satan is not a power, he is not the opposite of God. He is a created being like us, just not in the image of God like us.
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  if Satan is not the opposite of God what is he?Supporter of God?you said like us God created him.I think according to Christianity God has a love towards us because he created us tht is natural creator may express his love.But according to you God created him only because to fullfill his wishes?God love him because you said God created Satan
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  Tony L Smithposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I did not say God created satan. God created the angel that became satan which means the 'accuser'
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  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Satan is a Hebrew noun and simply means one who opposes or an adversary, Strong's #7854. The same word is used of David by the Philistines in 1 Sam 29:4 and it was also used to describe the Angel of the Lord who stood in the path of Baalam in Numbers 22:22. But because the church didn't want David and God's angel to be called 'Satan' they translated the Hebrew as adversary.
  
  Satan is not a proper noun and should therefore never be used as a name for an individual. It does not mean the devil. The is no one called Satan in all creation. God has sent angels as satans to various people, and people have been satans to other people. It's about time the church dumped this Persian mythology.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nods in affirmation.
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Dweissposted 13 years ago
Satan is not apart of God any more than you or I are a "part" of God. It isn't like pantheism where everything is in its essence "God". God is seperate from Satan, but He has power over Satan. Of course the Devil would not exist without God, but neither would we...
We should also realize that we have more power than Satan could ever have, he is not a demi-god or anything. Satan is merely a tempter, a deciever, and a persecuter.
True, Satan is the prince of this world and of the kingdom of darkness, but if we are not of this world (John 17:14) and so our power is from something greater than this world. Satan can have this world, for any power gained in it is temporary, but the power that comes from God is eternal
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "Of course the Devil would not exist without God, but neither would we..."
  
  Ya.that is the thing iam saying.Devil would not exist without God.if no God no Satan.No Satan no God -mutually dependent-that is what iam asking the question -Shall we assume like that??
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  Dweissposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God would exist without the devil.... God created the Devil as one of his archangels.... But God would exist reguardless of the Devil existing or not.
  and can you explain your question a little bit more?
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mobilemaniacposted 13 years ago
question is very simple-in a simple manner i meant that there is no existance for goodness alone without evil.Because without evil things good/divine things loose its meaning.Simple theory
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
How about its all a pile of old myths for an easy explanation?
Using the text from a book that says it is inspired by a god to prove that it is inspired by god is a bit silly don't you think?
No proof the invisible myth exists, not one single piece of even reasonable empirical evidence in 2,000 years, and currently half the middle east is in flames over religion. Why? Both reading differently from the same book!
Prehistoric nonsense!
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  mobilemaniacposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you earnesthub.These all theories are meant for easy teaching about moral things.But these things are needed for a practical well-balance also.May help sometimes.And there are some powers beyond our imagination/control.Real problem is not with religion.But when human started to use that for his own benefit or when he made that also a business
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intellagentlemanposted 13 years ago
Well he was only one of his best angels. But he was also an angel that with power became greedy and sought to take power from God himself. that was when he was cast out into the place that we call hell. so yes he in ways is a part of God or at least he has ties to him.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
The Satan, (not a person, a title) came from god's little helpers. It demonstrates clearly the other nonsense about this god being omni everything. Just another part of a puzzle without pieces that fit the myths.
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Jesus-Savesposted 13 years ago
All i hear in this forum is guess work. I was longing for somebody to open the Bible and explain things from there, but i was disappointed. Anyway, here is the truth behind this matter.
God created everything holy and good (yes, there was a time when all was good), Lucifer was one of the angels of God and He too was holy and good. In fact, he was the highest angel (highest created being), and he was given the high position of covering cherub. But he started to envy the position of God (this is a mystery), and later became Satan/Devil the enemy of God. And he managed to gather followers of angels in his rebellion against God. There was then a mighty war of words as each side tried to prove its point. Lucifer (now Satan) wanted to be equal with God, just like God's Son was equal with God. But Michael (God's Son/ Jesus) fought back, and won the arguments. And Satan and his followers were thrown out of heaven to this earth. Now Satan and his fellow fallen angels (invisible to human sight) are on death row awaiting the great day when they will all be destroyed by fire. But they are spending their tempting men so that we may be destroyed together with them in the end.
Here are some Biblical texts:
"How art thou fallen from heaven oh Lucifer son of the morning... For thou hast said in thine heart, 'i will ascend unto heaven, i will exalt my throne above the stars of God, i will sit also upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north, i will ascend above the heights of the clouds, i will be like the Most High'. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." Isaiah 14:12-15
"Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Thou has been in Eden the garden of God, every precious stone was thy covering... Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth, and I have set thee so, thou was upon the holy mountain of God, thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou was perfect in thy ways until iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise, they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned, therefore i will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God, and I will destroy thee oh covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou has corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness." Ezekiel 28:12-17
"There was war in heaven; Michael and His angels fought against the Dragon, and the Dragon fought and his angels and prevailed not, neither was place found anymore in heaven. And the great Dragon was cast out, that old Serpent called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world. He was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation 12:7-9
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgement of the great day." Jude 6
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