Is the Golden Rule, the Book of the Atheists?

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim,[1] ethical code, or morality[2] that essentially states either of the following:
   1.    One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself (positive form)[1]
   2.    One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated (negative/prohibitive form, also called the Silver Rule)
   The Golden Rule is arguably the most essential basis for the modern concept of human rights, in which each individual has a right to just treatment, and a reciprocal responsibility to ensure justice for others.[3]
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule
   .
   Do the People of Doubt- the Skeptics Atheists Apatheists Agnostics all believe in it?
   
   A friend here suggested that the believe in it.

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      FreeThoughtistposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      While I do personally follow the "Golden Rule" very closely, I may not speak for all atheists when I say that atheism is not a collection of beliefs, is not a way of looking at the world and is not a manner of living. Atheism is not a religion either: "If atheism is a religion then NOT collecting stamps is a hobby". Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a particular religion; to put this in perspective, we are all atheists with respect to Thor, Zeus and Apollo.
      
      The only difference is that we go one god further.
      
      So to answer your question, atheism cannot be summed up by saying something along the lines of, "All Christians believe in Jesus Christ" because that's just it: we don't share anything between each other except for the simple fact that we don't believe in a god(s). Sure we may be more likely to enjoy scientific matters, but this often comes with thinking critically so it cannot be attributed to lack of a belief in a god.
      
      I fear, Paar, that you miss the point of skepticism. Being a skeptic means looking through the lens of equality; being able to measure all probabilities evenly without letting your previous biases steer you to a conclusion you may not have otherwise drawn.
      
      And when a claim is made where there is zero evidence with relation to it, then that claim should not be pushed aside, but rather looked at further to see if there are any hidden truths within it. But once it has been seen that there really is no basis in which to go on, then the theory gets discredited for lack of proof.
      
      We're the ones who look at things evenly; we give every idea a chance. But what we don't do is credit those that have no evidence to back up their claims. We are not part of a religion, and wouldn't even be called a "we" if not for the one common ground we share in that we have not been presented with sufficient (or any) evidence to believe the outlandish claims being made.

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      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It would appear that the Quran does not agree with the Golden Rule:
      
          Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. 4:56
      
          They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. 5:37
      
          For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved. 6:70
      
          And the dwellers of the Fire cry out unto the dwellers of the Garden: Pour on us some water or some wherewith Allah hath provided you. They say: Lo! Allah hath forbidden both to disbelievers (in His guidance) 7:50
      
          If thou couldst see how the angels receive those who disbelieve, smiting faces and their backs and (saying): Taste the punishment of burning! 8:50
      
          On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded 9:35

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         Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Looks like the fundies refer to the Quran for their doctrines, because none of what you quote can be found in the bible.

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      Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Paar. Don't you know yet that the word atheism means one thing and one thing only? We lack belief that your god or anyone's god exists.
      
      As for me, I practice another version of the golden rule: Do no intentional harm.

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         Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Oooh that's a worry Slarty. "Do no intentional harm". What about the law of unintended consequences? What if your actions harm someone unintentionally? Do you not also bear responsibility for that too?

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            Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, but at least I did not do harm intentionally. Immorality has to do with intent. If someone is harmed by my actions then I am responsible.  But if my intent was to do harm, and it came about in an unforeseen or unforeseeable way then my act was not immoral, though it may have had tragic results.
            
            The chains of cause and effect are such that any action can have unforeseen negative consequences down the road. In fact, it can have alternating positive and negative effects throughout the ages.
            
            Jesus can be said to be responsible for people killing in his name, though that was probably never the intent of his message. It can't be helped. All we can do is our best to see that our actions do as little harm as we can possibly foresee. Could he have foreseen that?
            
            So I think doing no intentional harm is the best anyone can do.
            
            Doing unto others as you would they do unto you is tricker. What is what you want done to you is seen by another as harm?
            
            Mine is a much cleaner and simpler solution.

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               kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Nice thought but it keeps you in the negative.....thinking about what not to do.
               
               
               Original is best......always positive..thinking about doing positive.....thus no place for negative.

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                  Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Unfortunately the negative still happens whether you like it or not. No it isn't too much to think about. Don't you have to think about your actions?
                  
                  Mine is much better.

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                     kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I understand, It all depends on how one view the goals and purpose of his Life and how one goes about attaining such.
                     
                     So for me the negative must be put into their place so that it may serve its good purpose.
                     
                     Unless that is done there is no way of attaining perfection.

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            Slarty O'Brianposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry. That should read: "But if my intent was not to do harm, and it came about in an unforeseen or unforeseeable way then my act was not immoral, though it may have had tragic results."

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   Do the Atheists believe this Golden Rule? Is it their Code of Life?

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      Paragliderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It has nothing to do with atheism. It has more to do with pragmatism and common decency, neither of which is dependent on God's existence.

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         canadawest99posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         paar, sigh, you just don't understand anything.  Again, because you are indoctrinated by an old book written out of fear and superstition, you think everyone has such a book they follow.
         
         When a person of rational, free, logical thought wakes up in the morning, they don't need that guidance.   Its been built into us after millions of years of evolution.   Aethiests are not savages pillaging the land.   Most just go about their own business, try to do a little good here and there and stay out of debates that have no evidence.

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   Home Girlposted 13 years ago

   " Aethiests are not savages pillaging the land.   Most just go about their own business, try to do a little good here and there and stay out of debates that have no evidence."
   Well said. I like it. I do not need a holy book to live my life and stay out of trouble and be a good person.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What is a good person? I think the atheists are under some illusion.

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   dingdondingdonposted 13 years ago

   There is no common code atheists live by. All that unites us is a shared lack of belief.
   
   As far as the Golden Rule goes, I like to think most people, religious or not, try to keep it. It's just common human compassion, is it not?

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So, disorder or disunity or chaos are the words they go by. Common sense is with everybody nothing especial for the atheists. The atheists know that they cannot prove that the Creator-God does not exist; then their common sense should lead them to believe in the Creator-God. It shows that their common sense is got wrong.

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         dingdondingdonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sigh.
         
         Why do you hate atheists so much? It's obvious that there's some kind of very intense hatred for them you're battling with, as you continue to purposefully misinterpret the words of me and other atheists (or just plain invent things - I never said anything about disorder or chaos). Maybe you should look inside yourself and try to find the source of this hatred.

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   So the atheists- People of Doubt have neither a Golden Rule nor a Code of Life to follow.

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      just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What's your code? Definitely not a peaceful ahmadiyya muslim. I think it is  'do unto others as you think they have done to you'. I assume the fact that atheists question your faith has caused you to attempt to force them to question theirs. It isn't a question of faith for an atheist paar. It's simple observation.

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         My Code of Life is Quran; and science is an important part of human life and it is well within our belief to accept scientific truths.

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            just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sounds like you agree with atheists on this point. So, since everyone is willing to accept scientific truth, you only disagree where there is unprovable theory. Find a scientist that can prove the Quran  and establish it as scientific truth and everyone can be on the same page.
            
            Simple solution. Yes?

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            Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So, the Quran teaches you to trash other religions so you can elevate Islam?

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   I belive that all the revealed religions were originally truthful and their founders on whom the Word of revelation descended were truthful person; in this sense I respect every truthful religion.
   
   Yet, the people of doubt may not figure it out correctly.

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I wonder if Benny Hinn is a good example of religion all religion?
      Please watch him at his best. The man is a fine example of the religiously handicapped.
      
      http://www.infidelguy.com/ftopict-1379.html

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Too bad you don't understand humanity as well as you think you do.

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      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      And yet, you trash Christianity at every opportunity in order to elevate Islam. You do not respect other religions. That is a fact.

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   spookyfoxposted 13 years ago

   God and morals are so connected through authority in your mind that you don't comprehend that it does not happen in other people, and you disregard everyone that does not feel in a similar way about what you consider so important, to be all the same.
   
   That is the definition of being close minded.
   
   Atheists are not a group of people. Most of us agree that we shouldn't believe what's right and wrong based on what someone else says, and that finding those values within yourself and by interacting with other people is much more valuable than static, dodgy words by an authority figure. It doesn't matter one bit if it's written in a book or not, since the stories and lessons from the books people like to quote so much, where not books as we know them today at all. They originated mouth to mouth, in speech.
   
   But on the other hand, I'm sure you can find some atheist that are very dependent on externally imposed set of rules.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That is why I don't believe what the atheists says and believe as they are totally wrong from the very beginning; I have my own free will.

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         spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Have you ever considered that maybe some of the people involved in writting the book you follow, in other words, the people who told you what to believe, perhaps did not fully follow and believe what they preached?
         
         I'm not asking whether that's true or not, or whether you believe it or not, I'm just asking if you've considered the possibility.

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Please prove that Muhammad acted;preached different from the Word revealed on him from the Creator-God Allah YHWH; since you suggest so the burden is on you to prove it; or anybody else may help you to prove it.
            
            Quran was not authored by Muhammad; it was authored by the Creator-God.
            
            Have you considered the possibiltiy that you could be wrong in your assumption?

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               No, the burden is on you.
               Show us this god you keep on about.

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               spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You want me to do your homework?

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                  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I think it is your homework or somebody else's who may agree with you; it is your mind who assumed it.

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                     spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     It's something I said, based on something you believe about what someone else said. Therefore, Muhammad should be the one to do his homework first, and prove that his connection with the invisible being was beyond his mind. Since he died, it should be your job to provide any proof of it, since you adhere to his teachings.
                     
                     The default position is not to believe anything anyone says, or what's written in every book.
                     
                     If a man wrote in a book that he is Bin Laden and he's pretty much alive, would you believe it simply because at the end he says "this is true because I am Bin Laden and I say so"? You'd either dismiss it as nonsense, or look for the facts outside the source of the claims.
                     
                     You can't take alligations as true just because the very same source of them states that they are.

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                        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        True. Circular and meaningless.

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                        paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Muhammad did not author Quran; it is your misunderstanding; Quran is authored by the Creator-God.
                        
                        The default position is that when one observes a system working flawlessly; one believes that it has been created by ONE. The Universe is working under elaborate systems and laws; it is not chaotic; so the Creator-God does exist.
                        
                        Who started the evolution of life and where it will lead the life?
                        
                        [67:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
                        [67:2] Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things;
                        [67:3] Who has created death and life that He might try you — which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Most Forgiving.
                        [67:4] Who has created seven heavens in harmony. No incongruity canst thou see in the creation of the Gracious God. Then look again: Seest thou any flaw?
                        [67:5] Aye, look again, and yet again, thy sight will only return unto thee confused and fatigued.
                        
                        http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … mp;verse=0

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                           spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           "The default position is that when one observes a system working flawlessly; one believes that it has been created by ONE. The Universe is working under elaborate systems and laws; it is not chaotic; so the Creator-God does exist."
                           
                           This is irrelevant. Whether there is a god or not is not the question. For discussion's sake, I could go as far as assuming that god does exist, there is still no way to prove the relationship between it and those books. IF those books were written BEFORE any sort of human influence, THEN I'd be happy to discuss this in a serious manner.
                           
                           "Muhammad did not author Quran; it is your misunderstanding; Quran is authored by the Creator-God."
                           
                           Spookyfox did not write this reply, God did, and I say I did not author the Quran. There are some copyright issues and my heavenly lawyers are dealing with it.
                           
                           Now, prove to everyone else in this forum that god did not write this post, go ahead.
                           
                           "The default position is that when one observes a system working flawlessly; one believes that it has been created by ONE. The Universe is working under elaborate systems and laws; it is not chaotic; so the Creator-God does exist."
                           
                           First of all, if it's been created by ONE, then there's no TWO. If it's been created by one, it's been created by itself, otherwise god + Universe = 2.
                           
                           Secondly: not chaotic? Does the universe consist of your house and your city? We consider the Japan earthquake and tsunamis as chaos, what would you call black holes? Describe to me a chaotic universe please.
                           
                           But I insist, you're diverting into different subjects because you have no real arguments to supply.

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                              paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              One system would mean one Creator. Universe is not intelligent so it cannot create intelligent human beings. Universe is therefore created by the Creator-God- the All-Intelligent, the All-Wise.

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                                 spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Same old arguments. If something intelligent cannot create itself, and it requires "someone" intelligent to create it, then that "someone" needs another intelligent creator ad infinitum.
                                 
                                 Please prove that Nature (the Universe) is not intelligent.

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                                    paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    I think we all live in the same old Universe with the same old nature.

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                                       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       I see more muslims inciting  a mob and killing more christians is in the new again today. When will the islamists put a stop to these murders?

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So god wrote the quoran did he?
               
               
               Time for the white coat.

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran; I have never written anything against Jesus and Mary; they are part of my belief as is Moses or Krishna or Buddha.
   
   I respect truth in every revealed religion.

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As usual your answer is disconnected and unrelated.
      Where is the majick fairy?

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   One may ask the extremists, radicals and terrorists; they have nothing to do with the peaceful and rationa teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The terror I speak of is exclusively islamic. Inspired by the verses of hate in the quoran. One of your Islamist friends was screaming out to the crowd "Burn the christians" just like the quoran tells them to.
      Watch the news.

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         There are no hate verses in Quran; not a single hate verse; one would have misunderstood it from the context, for sure. Please try understanding things in the true perspective.
         
         One may blame one's own misunderstanding that blaming Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

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            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The quoran is full of hate verses and all that is required to understand it is to read it.

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    paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

    I have read Quran; there are no hate verses in it.
    
    Perhaps one is biased

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       Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Sighs heavily......when will this ever end?
       
       Qur'an:9:5     "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
       
       So OK Paar tell us we should take you seriously.

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          paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          Please read the verse from Quran with some verses preceding and some verses following; it was specific for the agressive meccans who had earlier attacked Muhammad and his followers at Medina  several hundred kilometers away; earlier than that they had persecuted Muslims at Mecca; burnt their houses; restrained them in a valley for some years together never allowing them any eatables. Muslims were forced to migrate; and when they migrated to Medina the Meccans attacked them with full force.
          
          The verses are not general for other non-believers; if read without the context, one cannot realize the actual position. The verses in the context clear this thing.
          
          Please read the verses and you will understand; I give the link here:
          
          http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … r.php?ch=9

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             paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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    Home Girlposted 13 years ago

    Religious books were written by people, enterpreted by people, printed by people. Universe and its laws are much bigger than any religion. If you turn your eyes, your ears and you brain to the sky (instead of your bum), you'll see and understand it a lot better, paar.
    
    
    His world has been destroyed by war and religious hatred and he is still praying, why?

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       paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       You are free to ask him; I don't know him personally.
       
       We do pray to the Creater-God through thick and thin; it gives peace of mind.

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Well I guess the post above would be the "thin"
          Getting your life destroyed and your family killed by a bunch of loony religious nuts who are of the same religion would be "thin" indeed!

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