Is God trying to send us a message and the human race isn't listening?

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kat11posted 13 years ago
In the past two years; the world has suffered major earthquakes, tsunamis in Haiti and Japan, major hurricanes, volcanoes in Iceland are letting off more than steam, the Middle East still has not found peace and the mighty Mississippi River is overflowing her banks. Recently,fresh on our minds is the unexpected amount of F5 tornadoes that has hit our country. The tornadoes of Alabama, Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma,and Tennessee are only the few. Then the unusual tornadoes in California and Australia. The flooding that has taking place throughout the United States. We have also added to the mix the oil spill that took place in the Gulf of Mexico. So think hard about this question and faith should help you answer it. I was not trying to make a mockery about religion or anyones personal feelings about the world around us since it is always changing.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, other than your last example, all of those events have been going on for millions if not billions of years. Fyi.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  awww, how cute.
  New thread opens, not even slightly cool to the touch, and Beelze Daddy is 'johnny on the spot'.
  
  always the good atheist -err- school boy and certainly a good Determinist.
  
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really? From my perspective, I see one member taking cheap personal shots at another member without adding any content to the subject matter, all within less than 3 minutes later.
  
  Now, that's 'johnny on the spot'!
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  kat11posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  what is you true feelings?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Kat, I was deliberately mocking the speed of our devote atheist, Beelzedad (one of the Knowles Borg, no doubt), who does not believe in God but is 'johhny on the spot' to comment on every single religious based topic...
  
  My true feelings with regard to the recent rise in natural disasters is simple: the noise of humans: by vocal, by wireless communication, mechanics -planes, trains, automobiles, drills, jackhammers-- constant electric transfer across the planet is a major contributing factor, coupled with the planets fragile ecosystem and 'normal' actions.
  
  Confirmed reports agree that most major cities are constantly shaking, causing large and wide sound waves to effect the earth. Not 'big' enough to cause instant effects, but certainly constant bombardment/emission of them. Add that to wireless and satellite communication waves, increased use of electric energy --even solar rays/waves for energy; add to that the natural shock absorbers (called fossil fuel pockets) being drained by sonar and machinery underwater causing the plates to shift resulting in earthquakes, tsunamis, aero changes --increasing the likehood of hurricanes, monsoons, tornado's; the non stop use of explosive weapons in some places, etc and you have the perfect scenario for these events to occur.
  
  Interesting enough, on holiday last year to St Lucia, it took a day for my ears to adjust to the sounds on the island. I went from Manhattan's sound pounding to near silence and literally my ears were ringing. Once they adjusted, the audibility increased like ten times over. When we came back, my ears hurt from the sound for at least a few days. I can only imagine that on a global scale.
  
  If Creator is trying to talk to us, I doubt, with all this racket, anyone could hear Him, even in the Grand Canyon.
  
  James.
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  kat11posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Kudos to you sometimes I think they only way we listen is through the cell phone and e-mail.It is sad how we don't listen very well or communicate
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Everybody is communicating at an ever increasing rate - it is just that very little of what is said is worth the electrons it is written in, like the twaddle in this thread for instance.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's a good point.
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  SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God has been trying to wake people up for centuries.
  
  Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
  
  Some hear Him but many do not.
  
  Nah 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Killing people by the hundreds of thousands just to send a message?
  
  If that were true, your god would be the most vile, evil mass murderer that ever existed. Is this a god one could love and worship?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey bucko, here is what just 3 of your brilliant "scientific messages" were to hundreds of thousands of members of humanity. Ready?
  
  The obvious:
  
  1.For six months before the atomic bombings, the United States intensely fire-bombed 67 Japanese cities. Then came "Little Boy":
  
  2. The Max Planck Society at a scientific symposium entitled 'Biomedical Sciences and Human Experimentation at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes { additional link }
  
  The not so obvious:
  
  1. Gene Pollution from Genetically Modified (GM) Food.
  more info AND more info
  
  ...not to forget the Science of medicine being used to Harvest Live Organs in China and other places.
  
  Oh and let's not forget Nerve Gas, Napalm, Crack Cocaine and the Combustible Engine, cloning and on and on.
  
  Hey it's memorial day weekend right, might be a good time to Remember the things science has done to humanity.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are off the point here - this is what humans have done to humanity - Beelzedad was referring to the OP who was talking about what she considers god has done to humanity to get its attention.
  
  If you want to go the science route however you now need to list how many life years have been saved by science in improved food supply, medicine, water collection cleaning and distribution - you know the stuff that keeps you alive every day.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm, let's think for moment.
  What are those people called whom I mentioned...oh yes, they are called scientists, geneticists, biologists. Yup, all human all people.
  
  Although I have had my fair share of having a laugh at religion, what I find sicking is how supposed scientific supporters and employees here have the audacity to back pedal when they get their dose of reality. How easy you jump on the scoffers bandwagon until someone like me challenges you.
  
  You have the nerve to demand I give you props by listing the good, yet you yourself do not have the courage nor conviction --the decency to list the same for your counterpart, religion.
  
  I will certainly list the atrocities of science as equally as the silliness of theists. See theists and scientists are the same --people, humans expressing the depths of a failed humanism.
  
  Even still, after 40 odd years of daily study and observation, engagement and participation, without question, I can prove the god of religion is the same god of science. And also can prove not one theist --radical or not -- could achieve any of their measures if science had not design any of the things they use to fight.
  
  In short, if you do not want others to play with your toys, you shouldn't make them, show them off, share them or use them to exploit other humans. Even better you should not force them to play with your toys or else and then get mad when they rebel.
  
  James
  
  Enjot your Memorial
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You over-estimate yourself - you are not a challenge you are just another guy self obsessed with his own introverted view of life and humanity that does not stand up to scrutiny. And not the slightest bit interesting.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Another brilliant scientific theory?
  Dear me. Seems when the critique comes your direction, you run back to your little lab for safety and squeal like a slaughterhouse animal.
  
  I am laughing because everyone who knows me, here and in my daily life, knows how extroverted I am.
  What I do find terribly interesting is how you typically sideswipe and attempt some sort of jab at me personally, instead of answering the actual post regarding your sciences dealing with humanity and religion. But you cannot validate it to any degree. I knew this, why didn't you?
  
  Can science handle a real critique and its good old fashioned over the knee of Philos? I doubt, but we'll soon find out. humanism is a hazbin. Yes, an old, smelly, tired couple science and religion are. Like any pathetic idea, even on your death beds, neither of you will recant. That is the sad of it.
  
  Morpheus to Neo: Stop trying to hit me and hit me!"
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  Motown2Chitownposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, no one can worship God, no one can worship Science, and no one can be a Humanist. I'm so confused. I'm going to start worshiping trees. Druid Dude, has anyone ever persecuted the Druids?
  
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you feel the need to worship something?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Always ready. Of course, I would expect that you are going to show well beyond the shadow of a doubt that they were indeed "scientific messages" that were sent and received. In other words, that was first and foremost their intent at the time. Or, is this a connection you're going to make up due to your obvious biased view of science that you have portrayed here ad nauseum?
  
  Are there other claims you can make that are equally silly?
  
  Yup. Batting a thousand.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How can you even blame science? Science in itself didn't generate any of the aforementioned examples you've given. Using scientific principles enabled the creation of these instruments, but not out of a lust for science or to send scientific messages (or whatever it is you're claiming).
  
  Many of those examples are weapons of war. Whatever started the war is responsible, and I'm fairly certain these weren't wars in the name of "science". Likewise, genetically modified foods are an attempt to solve a hunger crisis and not out of science. All of your examples suffer the same problem. You're blaming the gun instead of the shooter.
  
  Besides, you can make that sort of complaint with just about anything. Computers are bad because using them too much can strain your eyes and cause joint pain. Fire is evil because if you touch it you get burned. Even drinking water too much can kill you. Pros and cons exist in any given thing.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He's using science to present a counterpoint...he's not blaming science.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It seemed to me he was blaming science:
  
  "Hey it's memorial day weekend right, might be a good time to Remember the things science has done to humanity."
  
  "I will certainly list the atrocities of science"
  
  If not, what would be the counterpoint?
  
  The only relation I can see is this:
  
  "God is sending people a message by killing hundreds of thousands" is the OP's point that was addressed by Beelzedad.
  
  "Science is sending people a message by killing hundreds of thousands" is the supposed counterpoint.
  
  Do you see the flaw with that? Science is not an entity. It can't send any messages to people.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  it is a counterpoint using atheist logic but applied to science instead of G-d.
  
  in advertising we called this a creative license, like using feminine sexuality to sell beer or cars. BY using the style of reasoning that is employed by the "other", he drives home a point.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I understand the tactic, but that is not what is being used here.
  
  Science literally can't send any messages. The atomic bomb wasn't deployed as a message that you should believe in science. Guns weren't used to threaten people to believe in science. That's the fallacy.
  
  If the argument were "religion is bad because it can cause wars" and the counterpoint was "science is bad because it creates means for war", you might be closer to the mark.
  
  Sadly, even with that argument there is still a flaw - religious beliefs can be a reason for war. Science is not a reason for war.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know what you're saying but it's the same thing with religion. That's the point.
  religion does not cause wars, it is used as an excuse for war just as science does not create weapons of mass destruction, people use science to create weapons of mass destruction.
  
  but when speaking of science and religion in this way, you don't mean science per se, but the machinery behind it, the people behind it. religion was NOT intended by its luminaries to cause harm. but it has. So has science. science exists as a method of gaining consensus of understanding. it was NOT intended to create things that hurt us, but you know what, because of the machinery behind science, we have things out there that are hurting our children (namely artificial flavoring).
  
  so once again your arguing a literary style.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not arguing about original intent, I'm arguing about causality.
  
  Religion does not cause all wars, but it does and has caused wars.
  
  Science does not cause wars at all.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Since science is a product of the 1900s, you can really argue that. But religion was what is now science. It was cosmology, medicine and philosophy. And it did not cause wars, it became the excuse. The inquisition was not Caused by catholicism, it was caused by the rising fear of female empowerment that threatened the patriarchal society. The female art of wish-craft that rose in those days was more a fear of a political upheaval of power. The cross was used as an excuse to destroy the female intellectuals who were learning to read and think. The israel-palestinian conflict is not about the temple, it's about land and who owns it.
  
  Religion does not cause wars. It becomes the excuse. Politics cause wars. IN every war that "religion" caused, the real motive is land or money. Just like the catholic-protestant wars. They were afraid that the protestants will own the land.
  
  What it is, is people group themselves and form pacts. It could be racial, economic, and ideological groups. We tend to form units out of groups and become one organism fighting off others for co-survival.
  
  Science can also be used as an excuse for war. But so far, it is always economy that wins as a top reason for war.
  
  You have to be clear about the real source.
  
  If you were ever religious you will see that what it really does it give people a place to unburden their worries.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Since when is science used as an excuse for war? Name one war where science was the reason for the war.
  
  Science is the new religion? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. All I know is there is a fundamental difference in the two - science constantly checks and rechecks its findings and makes adjustments. That's the opposite of a dogma.
  
  Here is an interesting response I found to this question "has science caused war?"
  
  "No. Dogma causes war. Dogma...and only dogma. Dogmatic leaders will use science to their own advantage. That's all.
  
  Think of every war you can recall. What were the causes?
  
  Well, there was tyranny (dogma), ethnic cleansing (dogma), slavery (dogma), religion (dogma), the list goes on and on. Dogma, dogma, dogma.
  
  Science is the opposite of dogma. Science is constantly checking and rechecking itself as it advances and makes changes where necessary. Dogma, however, is any ideology or belief that must be followed and never questioned."
  
  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index … 815AAsrXjO
  
  (curiously, when I Googled "wars because of science", I found nothing - the closest suggestion was "wars because of religion")
  
  This is besides the point though. The OP's question was "Is God trying to send us a message?", not religion. Neither religion nor science can send messages by killing people - death is only a means to send a message. Religion's message always stays the same though, and will always have mistakes. Science constantly changes.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The development of religion as a cultural phenomenon is the same intellectual force that created science. It is our way of understanding existence, our place in it and the meaning of life.
  
  While I already said that science has been used to further political advantage, creating wars and peace. In itself, like religion, it is not the cause.
  
  You say religion causes wars. They do not. They become the excuse to grab land, to claim property and enslave other peoples. At the root of it, it is something more essential that cause wars and the themes of religion because they work, becomes the garments evil intentions wear to further and camouflage their evil ends.
  
  Many atrocities were done in the name of science at the time of Hitler and as you know many atrocities to life are being done in the name of science.
  
  Because it is not really science doing this, or religion, it is man.
  
  Now you can pursue in judging books not their contents. But I assure you, you can destroy religion and make a nation of scientists and it won't eliminate the evils you wish to destroy.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, religion is a way of understanding existence, our place in it and the meaning of life. We understand, according to religion, that the earth is the center of the universe, the sun revolves around the earth, the earth is flat, volcanoes are the results of an angry god and sacrifice appeases god. Clearly, it's an outdated method of understanding.
  
  I didn't say religion causes wars. I quoted an answer that correctly identified that dogmas, like religion, cause wars. Like you said, religion becomes an excuse. On the other hand, science has never been an excuse for atrocities and nobody does things "in the name of science".
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  we could do links to prove our points if you're up to it. but only if you're willing to stand by what you think and have intellectual honesty to reconsider when you are proven wrong. Otherwise, I will not even bother.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Please do, I would love to see mrpopo show you all about intellectual honesty. You might even learn something.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well if it's not for your wit, I wouldn't bother with you at all. alas you're not always a waste of space...got that job in snl already?
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely, I will reconsider if the evidence is enough to prove me wrong. There's no shame in being wrong - that only leads to further learning.
  
  What points would you like me to support? It seems to me that you do agree that religion can be used as an excuse/cause for conflict. If not, I will gladly provide examples.
  
  I, however, disagree about that same claim against science, so some evidence needs to be demonstrated on your end.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Mrpopo, it wouldn't be Science directly that causes conflict, but what humankind does with the knowledge gained is what causes the conflict. So, I would agree. Science by itself is like a Gun, it is harmless until used by humankind.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Cagsil - I don't know how long I have been trying to explain that
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome. It seems like people continue to place the blame for things on the wrong thing, dressing it up, as if it mattered. I guess it should not come as a surprise that many would argue against that, but it just shows that they themselves have a problem with being responsible for their own actions, much less, understand other people's actions.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ray, when did I "blame" science. I merely pointed to several atrocities in the name of science --just as I have often pointed to the atrocities of religion.
  
  Now, answer this: WHO made the gun itself? Certainly not a priest, cook or "Suzie Homemaker". Who fashioned it, gun powder, etc? Why split (not splice) an atom in the first place? What was so wrong with the atom? What is so imperfect about a wheat plant, with nearly 1,000 seeds per stalk to plant more grain, that science feels it "necessary" to modify? What was wrong with the tree frog, that it was asphyxiated in aldehyde, pinned to a board and dissected layer by layer so science could "oooh, ahh". Or perfectly happy pre-renaissance humans, dug up from their graves, experimented on, then glued back together only to be displayed in the Temples of Science (aka museums)?
  
  Talk about illogical. Tell me, please where is the true rationale, the true logic in these actions.
  
  My argument was simple: the items "created" through or by science --and its methods-- resulted in said atrocities. Can we solely blame the man using the gun or distribute this blame to the man who empowered the other: to know if a gun, see one, hold one, buy one in the first place; what about suoer-bugs, flues and disease --"natural side effects" of sciences experiments toward the "greater good" of humanity?
  
  As for personally responsibility: where is the personal responsibility of EVERY scientist to protect all living things, respect the parameters of nature, ecosystems, etc as they exist not how science believes they should or feels liberty to manipulate at will? Why are they absolved and theists not?
  
  James.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  James, Did I mention YOUR name? No, I didn't. So, your post is moot. Enjoy though.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The sole reason addressed is because you, Cecelia and other thinkers tend to have a rational mind, when it comes to these dialogues --unlike many die hard atheists, scientists & theists. I would like to see you opine on the matter.
  
  James.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that is the first time that you've ever stated I was of a rational mind. I will take it as a compliment.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  While there are several reasons why wars are caused, religion is most definitely one of them. Let's be clear, it is a cause of war and not just an excuse for war.
  
  And, since there are several reasons, ridding the world of religion will not stop all wars. That is why we must deal with each and every cause, not just one.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh so your solution is to blame religious people, nice. So far this is the only substance of your speeches.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, your reading comprehension skills really do need work. Where did I EVER say that I am blaming people? You need to stop putting your own words in other peoples mouths.
  
  Terrible behavior.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry but my opinion of you is based on a global assessment of your general stance. You can however choose to have amnesia about yourself, that's entirely your choice.
  
  Did I hurt your feelings again? Awwww...did the poor baby feel bad?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They aren't opinions, they are Ad Hominem fallacies, something you always rely on when you can't form an argument.
  
  So, you make up lies and stuff them in my mouth and then further deride me.
  
  Absolutely appalling behavior. Of course, I could have reported you long ago and you would have been banned many times for your personal attacks, but I would rather see you squirm in your delusions.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is only logic, there is no such thing as "atheist logic"
  
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you said it, not me.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  there is such a thing as atheist logic...as opposed to Christian logic.
  
  for example:
  
  G-d created man in order for us to feel his love.
  
  Man evolved from cells.
  
  do you disagree?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Christian logic?
  
  That is not logic, that is a logical fallacy.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There's plenty of evidence for evolution. There is 0 evidence for divine creation. How can the latter be considered "logic"?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  strictly speaking, just because its logical doesn't mean it a healthy way to think for example:
  
  Problem: The Jews are gathering all our money making themselves fat while we are their slave workers in our own country.
  
  Solution: Acquire their assets, drive them out of our country or kill them.
  
  That's logical. But its wrong.
  
  Whereas,
  
  I will give my life, a fireman with a real function in society, for an old woman who is about to die anyway.
  
  Not logical...but...you be the judge.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, it's healthy to think illogically?
  
  Wow, where do you come up with this stuff?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  See, there are many people like you who cannot separate the thing from what it wears.
  
  log·ic
  [loj-ik] Show IPA
  –noun
  1.
  the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
  2.
  a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
  3.
  the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
  ------------------------------------------------------------
  
  See lobotomy was logical at the time, it even won a nobel prize. Do you want one? No. Even if it's logical for you to have one. It is not necessarily the way you would go.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was logical at the time. It's akin to drilling a hole in your head when you have a headache. Both are logical in light of the given information at the time.
  
  But you haven't made your point. Why is it not necessarily the way you'd want to go? I'm assuming it's because of the risks involved in the procedure. But since the procedure is very risky and there are alternatives to its benefits, it's not considered logical by today's standards.
  
  So there you go - it's not logical. It was considered logical given the information at hand, just like it was considered logical that the sun is a god. With more information, the logistics behind it improved.
  
  I am still awaiting your response
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  mrpopo, are you another namesake of mark because this was meant for beelzie... nonetheless,
  
  logic is limited to the information you have. it's a system of getting to the truth and not the truth.
  
  you illustrated that enough yourself.
  
  That said, Christians have a logic that is logical to them.
  Atheists have a logic that is logical to them.
  
  But since logic is dependent on what is accessible "at the time" then logic, is not in itself the god of truth. it is a path to truth. But there are many paths to truth and many different kinds of experiences of truth.
  
  Another thing, given the economy, would you quit your job since you hate your boss, it is embarrassing to stay in the office and you just can't handle the feeling of being such a sell-out. It is not logical to quit that job. But, sometimes, an illogical decision feels right. There are other elements that are outside the reach of logic and they are also valid elements when determining the truth.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whether this was meant for Beelzedad or someone else is irrelevant. I was just giving my two cents, and I am not his namesake.
  
  "That said, Christians have a logic that is logical to them.
  Atheists have a logic that is logical to them."
  
  I disagree.
  
  Exorcisms, for instance, were thought to cure those who had maladies or seizures or what have you because they thought demons were inhabiting the person. At the time, it was reasonable because we believed demons existed. Nowadays, seizures are diagnosed and treated by medical advancements.
  
  However, considering how much more we understand, presently it is completely foolish to perform exorcisms when a person is suffering from a seizure, and even more illogical to assume that a demon is possessing said person.
  
  That's why Beelzedad stated that there's no such thing as "atheist logic" or "Christian logic". There's only logic.
  
  "But since logic is dependent on what is accessible "at the time" then logic, is not in itself the god of truth. it is a path to truth. But there are many paths to truth and many different kinds of experiences of truth."
  
  Nobody claimed that logic is the god of truth, if there is such a thing. Yes, logic is a path utilized by pretty much everybody to reach truths or understanding. There's no such distinction as "Christian logic" or "atheist logic". Both viewpoints (specifically the extremes of both) can be invalid by logical fallacies or just plain ignorance.
  
  If there is another path to understanding other than logic, I'd like to hear it. I have a feeling it's just going to be logic again, in a different name.
  
  "Another thing, given the economy, would you quit your job since you hate your boss, it is embarrassing to stay in the office and you just can't handle the feeling of being such a sell-out. It is not logical to quit that job. But, sometimes, an illogical decision feels right. There are other elements that are outside the reach of logic and they are also valid elements when determining the truth."
  
  How is it not logical to quit your job?
  
  In your scenario there are valid reasons to quit your job, and valid reasons to stick it out. I would say, given the risk, that quitting your job would cause more harm than good, but if you truly can't stand your job then quitting might be the only option.
  
  It depends on how much you don't like the job and how much you need it - that's a logical procedure. The difficulty lies in evaluating how much you need the job and how stressful it is to you. The Pros vs the Cons.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Believers often mistake those who don't share their beliefs as one and the same person simply because logic and understanding are something they are unaware or ignorant and when it is provided for them, they can't distinguish one logical argument from the next, or one person from the next.
  
  Logic and reasoning are consistent while religious beliefs go from one extreme to the other.
  
  Christians are unable to apply logic to their beliefs by the very definitions YOU yourself provided. You may invoke induction into your arguments but they will often lead to false conclusions.
  
  Such as what? Provide an example of a truth in which logic was not required to validate it?
  
  It IS logical to quit a job because you hate your boss or are embarrassed to be there. Of course, that may have more to do with your own short comings, too.
  
  Of course, if it "feels right" to believe in imaginary friends and sky fairies, the logic of feeling good is logical. But, that does not mean your imaginary friends actually exist by the same logic.
  
  Such as what? Provide examples.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  at this point I will just let you dig your own hole.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, you got nothing, again? Okay.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Cecilia are you still up for trading links to support our previous points? I'm still waiting for any sort of evidence that science has been an excuse for conflict.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you put up that definition for your own edification? Will you ever follow that definition or keep making stuff up?
  
  Yes, I do understand you're compelled to fire off salvos of personal attacks in light of an argument. Feel free to do so as it says a whole lot more about you then me.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yes I am mirriam-webster incognito...I wish there was something better to talk about...(or to)
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How is that logical at all???
  
  Not only is your assessment of the problem narrow (assuming you're basing it off real life and not as a hypothetical scenario) but your solution is archaic. "An eye for an eye" will get us nowhere.
  
  And since when is evolution not a healthy way to think? Believing that the earth is flat is not a healthy way to think. Rejecting evidence is not a healthy way to think.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is not on the list which I am familiar with. All scientists are atheists. That, is a logical fallacy. All christians are illogical, is also the same type of logical fallacy. Both are examples of "Slippery Slope" Logical fallacy. Before discussing something, it is best to know what you are talking about.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, he's using science to present a logical fallacy.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is no such thing as a "logical fallacy" Einstein.
  And besides, my point was lost in the whining of some.
  Science, by all measures of application, is equally violent, redundant and skillfully clever as its balance, religion.
  
  TRUE science is ONLY to observe.
  Observation is not splicing atoms, splicing tree frogs, digging up dead bodies, taking organs from live humans, making microwaves that cause fish and Plankton to die on contact, medicines that deteriorate the liver and brain function with each little purple pill, etc. So, if anyone claims they are truly of science, then they should ONLY observe and report, not apply any of the measures mentioned. Simple. Observe the stars without modified petroleum based lens and metallic machines. Don't suck the fossil fuel from the planet to run those machines, causing nearly irreparable damage, potentially catastrophic land shifts, earthquakes, etc. Don't use it to rip the atmosphere apart in search of a better planet, or beat out the other guy in a race to space. Don't synthetically alter perfectly good foods, wrap them in petroleum based paper, inject them with animal hormones, synthetic preserves, etc etc etc.
  
  Now, it comes to this: take away all the mechanics (technological componants) that allowed/enabled science and also enables modern religion. Both would still be sitting on a rock, a nice cool evening breeze, staring at the stars with a smile.
  
  This represents my points irrefutably: Science and religion are of the same rootstock; serve the same ideology. The result: In The Name of Discovery or Freedom or Advancement and likewise any other Theos [concept of supremacy; deities] is devastation -sometimes quick and globally recognized (and often celebrated), other times slow and nearly undetectable (yet still celebrated).
  
  Science itself, even its application --as I expressed to mrpopo-- may not put their banner on it, but certainly they are enthusiastic when it comes to promoting, marketing, selling, advancing and reaping the benefits while enslaving humanity with their findings.
  
  Science is not the new religion?! Ha! If anything could be a logical fallacy, that would be it.
  
  James.
  
  Addition: "Advancements in medical technology also improved the welfare of many people: the life expectancy of the world increased from 35 years to 65 years. Rapid technological advancements, however, also allowed warfare to reach unprecedented levels of destruction. World War II alone killed over 60 million people, while nuclear weapons gave humankind the means to annihilate or significantly harm itself in a very short period of time." source Three cheers for science -hip hip hurray!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and from what I can glean from your posts overall, there is no such thing as reality, too.
  
  That would show you know nothing about science.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're right - I see the absurdity of my "whining".
  
  Science is truly terrible. Einstein is to blame for atomic bomb just like the Wright brothers were at fault for 9/11. Had they not made planes, nobody would be flying them into buildings. How dare they make such atrocities!
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Logical Fallacy: Thev application of an errant thought line to support statements. For instance; Guilt by association. It is a logical fallacy.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We haven't spliced atoms yet. That is fusion. Splitting: fission, splicing =fusion.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Correct DD, my bad. No splicing of atoms at the atomic level --yet. But definitely splicing at the molecular and cellular levels --and especially the genetic level.
  
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  James, Lordy! you are truely ROCKING in this thread!!
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is time...to...roll...the...rock! Unh! There it goes! 4 directions at once! God outdid Einstein. Split an Adam and got a woman!
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe religion is a good excuse for war, but it took a scientist to enable us to kill as many people as possible.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A truism and no error.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wasn't me, it was the one armed ...ummm, no it was me. lol.
  (sorry?)
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just like to keep things in perspective. Every weapon advance ever was done by a "scientist". They aren't afraid of the blood, they wallow in it!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, these wars in the name of science' fit what I exemplified. [God] forgid science attach their logo to these atrocities. Cowards! At least theists flew their banner as high as possible and the ancient magicians, astrologers, of Egypt and more, took pride in pulling live hearts from humans, pouring apothecaries down their throats to see the result and enslave the people. You say, "Do not blame science because they didn't drop the weapon or tell people to eat the food".
  
  Hmm, my response would be this: If you think or believe so callously in your primordial, even Medieval stave of absolution, then sadly, and provably, you are as deranged and pathetic as those whom you gave opportunity, power, property and privilege to use those weapons. Yes, science fashioned the metal, the bullet, the powder. Then displayed it for men to goggle over. Now you say, they should not use it? Ha! Build museums to display your taxidermy of animal, plant, fish, even humans and more. Then charge people to visit them? No remorse, no morals, none.
  
  To your favor, however, is indoor plumbing. quite characteristic and representative of the totality of science. I use it happily each day. Also in your favor (and yes, I give you much joy in this) is religion has so equally expressed the value and sincere love for humanity as well.
  
  I thank you both, from the bottom of the bowl(s) for showing us all how failing humanism is and how close to death it is.
  
  James
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no idea what to make of your eloquent response. It doesn't counter any of my points, it only makes a personal attack.
  
  If my "Medieval derangement" is provable, then please go ahead and prove it. I don't see how you'd do that but I suppose a start would be by actually countering my points instead of orchestrating these petty attacks.
  
  I still think you're blaming the gun (science) instead of the shooter (man).
  
  In any case, you can use the gun to prop a man, or you can use it to shoot him.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I will answer all your single point(s) in your statement.
  Man you say is responsible for using the gun.
  Man made the gun.
  Man made the gun using science.
  Man saw that it was good.
  Big Bang! Man kills man.
  Mega-ton Atomic Big Bang! Man kills 250,000 men in seconds and to this very day, has maimed millions more from its effects..
  GM Food Bang! Man kills man slowly, to save a few men.
  
  Idea: stop making stuff and killing perfectly happy little tree frogs for the sake of knowledge then displaying them like prizes. Leave well enough alone. Very simple, really. Why did you need to splice and atom in the first place? Just cause. Well there is the proof of your 'just' cause.
  
  Science has forced itself upon all humanity, to the point where no one can survive without it --and if the process continues-- cannot survive with it. Earlier it was science-religion in a primitive form, forcing people to believe it or die; Then religion took the upper hand and history shows the result. As of recent, science has resumed the supreme hand --the Touch of [God]-- and has enslaved all humanity beyond recognition. Humanity is now utterly numb and sickly thanks to both. Saved one, killed 1,000. sound familiar? It should religion does the same. Save one soul, kill a thousand more in the name of...
  
  But, good thing science-religion as a very old couple. And no doubt, approaching death must be somewhat annoying for them. Supersaturated with so much woo-woo, la-la and plastic coated medicinal technology, they themselves don't know which end is up. The Morphine Effect...
  
  As for your retort about 'personal attack', it proves one of my points well. I'll have you guess which, for sport, you know. Its all in sport. FYI, what I bluntly referred to was science, not mrpopo.
  
  James.
  
  ps, please learn to read: it says "Medieval Stave of Absolution", not derangement. A Stave is a medieval staff or commonly known as a wooden plank, used in building Nordic boats, stabilizing roofs on wooden houses.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yup, i was right
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're deliberately leaving out an aspect of the "gun" creation.
  
  Man made the gun using science because man has wants/needs to kill (for reasons such as power, money, control etc.).
  
  Obviously, science is the "how", but you're making it seem like the "why". Science is just a possible means for harm just like it is a possible means for good, much like anything else. Before that, man could kill using sticks and stones, which doesn't require scientific understanding.
  
  I think you're demonstrating a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually happens with science. When it was discovered that E=mc^2, people didn't just go "hey let's splice an atom, just cause". If you happened to forget, there was a war going on at the time, and it was decided that atomic bombs would be used to end it. It's not a decision I agree with, but it doesn't somehow make the use of science bad.
  
  It's like blaming the theory of gravity for the use of catapults.
  
  I think your biggest issue with all of this is that knowledge can be used for good and evil, and science discovers such knowledge. What is your suggestion then? Stop discovering knowledge?
  
  And I haven't even touched on any of the benefits science provides daily. Ironically, for someone that hates science you keep using its products as we speak (type).
  
  PS: Admittedly I misread your quote; I read "state" as opposed to "stave". Mind trick I suppose, but nothing to do with an inability to read. That's besides the point though, as the intent of you belittling my position as a "primordial piece of wood" which is evidence of "derangement" still stands. I just took the main adjective, medieval, and added your insult, derangement, and used it in quotations as a representation of the claim you were trying to make. The idea was to capture all major aspects of your attack, but clearly that was lost on you.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because of the temperatures involved in the formation of hurricanes and funnel storms, during the ice-ages, it stands to reason that in these post ige-age warmer temps that each passing decade, with intervals of warmer and colder temps* would produce higher and higher velocity storms as determined by surface temps and upper air currents. Why? Because temps have been rising since the apex of the ice-age. Does it each time an ice-age ends. There have been several. Further, the de-forestation caused by wide-spread development, not fire, and the wide use of heat holding materials in man's construction of roads, airports, shopping centers, apartment buildings, vast factory complexes, asphalt parking lots, and yes, 6 billion of us. If you would like proof, just check out the latest pics from space. The cities especially are extremely hot. What happens next? Haven't you read the Bible? It gets really hot...everywhere.
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  davidmonkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for raising the question. God has been giving mankind His message concerning His plan and purpose purpose throughout the centuries since the begining of creation. He has told us what will take place before the next phase of His plan in which Jesus will be sent back to reign and in righteousness like no other world leader has ever done and in so doing will bring about the final phase when paradise is restored as before the fall of Adam and Eve.
  The time leading up to the next phase is likened to a woman giving birth where the birth pangs get more frequent and stronger until the time of the birth. This lead up to the next phase is spoken of the last days in which these times are summed in the words; And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
  26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
  
  It is a shame that most people ignore God's Word thinking that they are wise in their own knowledge when in fact they are fools and God has warned us of such people. "The fool has said there is no God". The fool fails to recognize the obvious and as God says the wisdom of this World is foolishness. God says " The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us"
  Some things will always remain a mystery and outside human comprehension and control. Who for example can make one atom? If you can make one atom, there is nothing to stop you making an infinite number. In the realms of infinity, which we cannot comprehend, all things are possible with God.
  
  Our lack of knowledge and lack of power to do anything on the scale of God should make us very humble. God has given us a simple message which a child can understand and yet man has distorted God's Truth to his own destruction. Once you can realize the promises of God and what that can mean for your future, then getting the wisdom that comes from God is priceless. "Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that gets understanding".
  
  I am a person who likes technology and science but with all that I know and understand which is outweighed vastly by what I do not know and understand, I value the wisdom that comes from God more highly than anything else.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Have you ever thought of taking the time to learn something about the sciences so that you don't need to get your answers from myths and superstitions?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yes, G-d is sending a message. Let us pick all the beautiful virgins and throw them into the mouths of volcanos.
  
  Oh is this the 21st century? Did I get zapped back 3,000 years or so?
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  Motown2Chitownposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the short answer to this question is that nature does live through these things all the time. What sort of message do you think God is trying to send is the real question that I think you're looking for an answer to, but I could be wrong.
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  Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you get yours?
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Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago
It has more to do with climate change than God...
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  Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly!
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God is always trying to say something to the human race and humans are NEVER listening. As for the climate change situation, I don't know why they call it that. Climate change is what you experience when you fly from Vermont to Indonesia in February. What we're experiencing now I think is a host issue not a God issue. Earth, as loving and nurturing as a hostess as she is, she's pissed off because we've neglected her for the last several centuries to say the least.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, what you're saying is that a rock is alive and is pissed off?
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  Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The planet isn't a rock, it's a living and complicated system.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is a rock. Grab your shovel and start digging anywhere and see what you find.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But you're listening aren't you? So, tell me. What are you going to do about it. YOU, okay. not humanity in general.
  
  Nothing. You're going to eat a burger tonight as usual and do nothing.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Uhh, I said that. I threw the bible thing in to demonstrate that we seem to be falling into prophetic visions which could, and probably will, happen. I'm not saying anything else beyond that. No "repent thou foul sinners" or nothing like that. Everything is mathematically predictable. EVERYTHING. Just ask any bona-fide mathemetician.
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wildernessposted 13 years ago
And reason should tell you that nothing particularly unusual is happening.

We haven't had a dinosaur killer asteroid strike for several years now. We haven't even seen another Krakatoa for a while. The mediterranean hasn't cut through it's banks to form another avenue to sea while draining itself and we haven't seen another snake river canyon appear for the same reason. Some day Lake Erie will do the same thing, but it hasn't happened yet.

The things you mention are extremely minor when compared to other disasters this poor planet has seen. They are expected, normal examples of the natural weather and geological forces in the world, and one reason (for instance) that rainfall is considered in "worst 100 year" examples when designing buildings and such.

While human deaths may well be up in recent years from natural disasters it is primarily because there are ever more humans available to die and they tend to congregate in just the areas that have natural disasters.
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  kat11posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Although these events have been going on for billions of years. Science through natural disasters and the many geological forces that has taken place on mother Earth can be considered normal. Then ask those individuals that have lost loved ones in the recent outbreak of tornadoes. They will tell you they can replace material things but not life itself.
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  Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wilderness, unfortunately what you say is true. There are just too many population areas built in places where these things happen.
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  davidmonkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The earth might be billions of years old as the Bible says; "the earth was void and without form". It was after this that God created the planet as we know it. How do you measure time before the sun was created for example.
  Evoluton is based on bad science and the difficulty with knowing the orgins of life and the Universe it that we were not there to see it.
  The time of the flood changed conditions on the earth. It was 12 months before the ark touched dry ground. We have seen the consequences one Tsunami, consider the destruction caused by one giagantic wave. If you mutliply this thousands of times during the flood when it speaks about the foundations of the deep being broken up, this gives us an insight into the great changes taking place in the earth's topography. Where did all the water go? The answer it; it is still with us. Consider the highest mountains today are under water. When you re think the conditions of the flood and the changes to the earth that took place, this answers many of the anomolies we see which evolution has not answer.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I guess God measured time before He created the Sun, because He didn't create the Sun until Gen 1:16, which He claims to be the third day...which means He was measuring time.
  
  However we've never seen God create anything, but that is not suppose cast any doubt on your absurd beliefs, right?
  
  I'm sure you were there to see this event, because you are not the type of person to believe things that you were not 'there to see'
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My response exactly!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The very same way time is measured now, obviously.
  
  Really? Can you explain that "bad science" or is your claim based entirely on, "the difficulty with knowing the orgins of life and the Universe it that we were not there to see it"?
  
  Did you know there are billions of galaxies in the universe, all in various states of existence from well formed to their origins as gas clouds? Did you know we can study those galaxies to see how they formed? We can see the various states of stars and how they evolve, too.
  
  Actually, the question is, "Where did all the water originate and how could it possible rain enough in 40 days to cover the earth? If one take the time to crunch the numbers, it simply could not have occurred as presented by the book of myths.
  
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, something on biblical proportions is happening. All of the glaciers are going...fast. Faster than predicted. The rivers fed by those glaciers water aall of the fields on the planet. Further, Ice holds no salt, it is all pure water, and all of it is going into the ocean, which will lead to de-salination. Sea water fish die quickly when their ecosys becomes unbalanced. Check reports of world-wide declines in the ocean harvests (as a whole, not just one fishery) NOAA is here, just down the street to investigate dead zones off the west coast. They are spreading. Nothing can stop it or the glaciers. On top of that, there are anticipated changes in the jet currents in the oceans world-wide, PLUS anomalies in the magnetic field of the earth suggest we may be experiencing a reversal of polarity. Damn, and when I was just getting used to not wearin' a hat.
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DoubleScorpionposted 13 years ago
The Fuddy types are really gonna flip when the Magnetic Poles swap polarities again...I would really like to see that one.
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  davidmonkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is no evidence for the poles flipping polarity but there is evidence of fluctuating magnetic field strengths taken as change is magnetic polairty.
  
  Why is the centre of the earh molten iron? This gives the earth the density it requires for everything to survive. This is one of many factors difficult to explain. Science says the the formation of carbon atoms is extremely difficult so why is it that carbon is in such abundance for liffe to exist? Why is it the moon is exactly the size it is at the orbit it is? why is it that according to big bang there is conservation of momentum and spin. Everything should be spinning in the same direction so why is it that we have exceptions where a plante spins in the opposite direction. Then we have the problme of enthalpy . Oder does not come out of chaos and the signs are that the universe is breaking down.
  We need not fear because the timescale is so large it does not concern us, but it is the principle involved. God set these things in motion and created everything the way it is. We need not worry about the heavens when we should be concerned with the planet we live on. It does not matter how mcuh the heavens slow down or chaos comes out of order for God has said tht he will create all things new. If he did it once, he can do it again so the future is secure whatever the signs might lead us to think.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Which God? There are many!
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  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They all agree on a common language to understanding them: science.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your "science" is a little outdated, but let me help:
  
  While I am not aware that there is evidence that the magnetic poles "flip", or reverse with north being at the south pole, there is considerable evidence that the location of the magnetic north pole varies considerably. Not only is it moving measurably each year, but it has been at least 90 degrees from where it is now as evidenced by iron particles in some rocks. Nor is it a matter of field strength; you can tell the difference between magnetic strength and polarity with a few dime store magnets of different sizes.
  
  The earth's core is molten because it is hot. The earth has a particular density and spin, which greatly influences life forms on in. Were it any different the life would be different. There is nothing to indicate that life would be nonexistent were conditions different. Life is the way it is because of the conditions it evolved in, not the other way around.
  
  The moon is the apparent size it is because it has been X years since it's formation. You are aware that it is moving away from the earth and that it's apparent size was once much greater and will, in the future, become much smaller? Or, if you refer to it's actual size, it is the size it is because that is what has formed in the billions of years since it came into being. It continually increases in actual size from meteor strikes.
  
  Carbon is not particularly difficult to make - no more so than most elements. While we can make only helium (via hydrogen fusion) in any quantity at all carbon is simply another element and requires a different amount of energy. It is one of the early elements to be formed in the reactor called a star.
  
  Shoot a 20# bag of BB's with a shotgun at 20' range. I guarantee that there will be all kinds of momentum, both linear and rotational, imparted to individual BB's. In addition that chaos of the first moment of impact will settle down to a static state as soon as they hit the ground. The solar system does not show but a very small fraction of the chaos it first had when the sun was formed; gravity has taken care of that quite nicely.
  
  God set nothing in motion as the story is just a myth (I can make unsupported statements, too!).
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  davidmonkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God cannot be proved anymore than the Big bang (as scientists understand it) or Evoluiton can be proved. We are all guilty of passing on information we receive without being able to substantiate or prove it.
  
  Every programme where Evolution is promoted the presenters say; " 400 million years ago...." This is no more than quoting the text books. None of us were there at the begnning so we do not know.
  
  There are many good scienists that have reached their conclusion and believe God's Word. Many will dispell the Word of God as myth because they are repaeating what they have heard or read by other disbelieving people like all those that repeat the phrase" 400 million years ago" I expect those people have not read the Bible and they do not understand what is being said. The majority of those that believe in Christianity do not understand the Truth of the Bible and have distorted the Truth to ther own destruction. It is no wonder the Bible is disregarded by many others because of the confusion caused by others distortion of the Truth.
  
  Our Creator knows our frame and can say; "the heart is deceitful above all else, who can know it?" I often question people's motive which in most cases is self-pride and selfishness. We often deceive ourselves and we have all inherited the same nature as Adam. Jesus said; "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it". In other words we are nauturally liars and it takes a strong person not to lie. A person cannot believe in God and say they have no sin or else as it is writen; "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us".
  
  I am humbe enough to say I do not know everything and I am searching for Truth. I believe that the Bible holds more answers than scientists can give us. Scientists are mostly paid and to keep their jobs so they have to produce results or have a very good reason to get funding for research.
  
  Just as the one who can make an atom can control the world, so God offers this challenge; "who can tell you a matter before it happens". No scientist can say for any certainty what will happen tomorrow, let alone years and centuries in advance. This is why I believe in God for God has given us the proof, the evidence is in the Bible and it is all around us to see, but if you do not read the Bible and you do not understand what is being told you, you will never see and therefore you will never believe.
  
  Paul wrote: "If in this life we have hope in Christ we are of all men most miserable" For many they are happy to believe what they do, for they have no hope of a future.
  Happy is the man that getteth wisdon and getteth understanding.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No evidence of the pole shifting polarity?? ok Well I guess all of the science professors I have had are all wrong in what they are teaching...My mistake...
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because it hasn't had time to cool, yet. Our entire planet was once molten and has been cooling ever since.
  
  That is because there are billions of star in every galaxy and billions of galaxies in the universe, many of the producing carbon, along with a number of other elements.
  
  The moon is constantly moving away from earth and has been doing so a very long time. It was much closer in the past.
  
  Ah yes, the religiously indoctrinated conclusion which ignores everything we have learned thus far.
  
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
I do not think or believe for a single hairy second creator would use nature as a scare tactic. Maybe after a long dialogue, like say the Flood (Canopy Meltdown | Cooling of the Earth).

Here is a thought for folk to keep in mind.
Humans have a lot of power, in words, in thoughts.
Humans vibrate energy at a very interesting frequency in the form of words. since the industrial revolution, human communication has multiplied by the millions, with tower and satellite sound waves bouncing all over the place. Mind you, 90% of everything humans speak is negative. Add that to the sound of mechanics all over the world, drilling, you name it.
Have you ever seen what a small sound (sonar) wave of sound can do? Imagine the negative electrostatic energy humans are pumping into the planets atmosphere while their machines pump that same type of sound into the earth itself. Couple that with 24/7 electricity used to light the world, etc; noxious gases everywhere, non stop 24/7 television, computers and especially music -- and I think you might see something rather interesting.

Could it be that these sound waves are causing changes in the environment? Well, in the words of Mr Peanut, "Damn Skippy!"

Some common bio-effects of electromagnetic or other "non-lethal" (infrasonic) weapons include effects to the human central nervous system resulting in:
physical pain, difficulty breathing, vertigo, nausea, disorientation, systemic discomfort.
Interference with breathing poses the most significant, potentially lethal results.
Light and repetitive visual signals can induce epileptic seizures (see Bucha effect). Vection and motion sickness can also occur. Cavitation, which affects gas nuclei in human tissue, and heating can result from exposure to ultrasound and can cause damage to tissue and organs.

all that from a low level aka "non lethal" sound wave at 7 Hz.
now imagine that turned up to even 50 Hz. The human would explode. Now, look at it on the global scale and wonder how much vibration humans are causing...
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Yes, the all loving invisible all powerful god decided to teach mankind a lesson for not believing in a 2000 year old myth.

That is why he destroys the planet he made and tortures and kills all these people, it is to "educate" them.

Hilarious!
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  Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God has nothing to do with this. People chose to ignore common sense and build their homes where the ground shakes, off the sides of cliffs, along the banks of rivers, and in the middle of flat plains that are prone to storms and mighty gusts of wind. Of course we could all be hit by an astroid and then it wouldn't really matter where we lived. Isn't there one on it's way right now, supposed to be here by 2036? I suppose that will be God throwing-up on us.
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  lizzieBooposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. This idea of God torturing everyone because he's angry is a total heresy. Unfounded, predestination nonsense.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very true. In Australia it is the same.
  
  People here build on rich river flats and old flood plains, waterless drought prone areas, pumping out the water table until the land is destroyed by salt, building on low lying coastlines and more.
  
  Some American city locations are just plain crazy too.
  
  The thought that a god would be involved is just plain silly.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
So it was your god who destroyed the lives of all those beautiful people in Japan and caused the devastation that sweeps through America blowing away whole towns and killing innocent people and little children?

Was that to "wake them up?"
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As Sir Dent posted up above
  
  Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
  
  those beautiful people and the innocent and the kids are lucky to have been 'chosen' - apparently !
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well that clears it up for me!
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  Disturbiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Lucky me, I haven't called or chosen.
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  davidmonkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The following quote from the Bible sums up man's ignorance and folly and this is what God warns us against, but do we get the message?
  3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
  2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
  3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
  4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
  5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
  6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
  7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Don't hide behind your invisible duperdaddy to call me a fool!

I'm totally fed up with this abuse by proxy crap!
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The human race is listening whether they know it or not. It's like listening to the conductor on a train. You may not listen, but you are still going there. (Sorry, no jumping off.)
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The arrogance of certainty on behalf of an invisible bully. Seen the same rot on here for almost three years now,
  
  Michael Korda teaches the same tactics in his book "Power. How to get it. How to use it."
  
  If you don't do as I say HE will punish/kill/deny/burn/send to hell etc etc.
  
  This is gutless don't you think? Effective against cowards, the weak and needy, the terminally frightened and the terminally gullible.
  
  I'm none of those, so eat my shorts bad boy!
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest prefers face to face abuse.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not interested in your opinion of me, it has nothing to do with me or this thread.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't know you had an entangled past life
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe I need another caffeine injection Cecilia, that went over my head.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i always say that about people who apparently don't go down smoothly together.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Chill. Just kidding. Geeez, I didn't realize how SERIOUS this is!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Well you better get started on your list then!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Anyone else see the doco on time travel?
We have already seen it in operation here on earth. Theory established!
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Nicely explained wilderness.
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
If Creator is sending us a message, it is one humanity cannot hear above the hum of its own noise. While religion awaits a massive battle between angels and these supposed demons --and they of course the mighty warriors to defeat them while their fellow man in the billions suffer needlessly, mark calendar dates, swoon beneath the desert moon in he Name Of Their Gods...And while science awaits either proliferation, absolution, and/or an escape from earth technology...as both trade punches and profits, something else has been happening. Something neither can see with their egos the size of each other. Something rather brilliant and long overdue.

James.
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psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago
If events like earthquakes and storms (yes, even really really big ones) are a message He has been sending it since humans had gills.
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
Sounds quite 'religious' to me.

I did not leave out the creation of the gun. I assumed it was understood. Hear me clearly: if science had not tinkered, defined the metal, forged it: that gun, bullet, gun powder would not exist for a man to use. Period. no excuses allowed.

True, sticks and stones were the fashion for a while, I am not disputing that. But I do not see how sonic instruments are any better. Did you thoroughly read the example links I originally presented as a teaser?

Yes, I am aware of his employment to build the weapon. Am also aware the war began after he completed the study and experiment with much success. Still had he not completed that experiment nor even attempted it, the probability of such a device coming into being would be -273 Kelvin.

First, who said I 'hate' science? And who said I 'hate' religion? Second, no matter how many small good science or religion has done it does not absolve, negate nor erase the multitudes of atrocities both have done with such exceedingly wondrous knowledge (my sarcasm is showing...) There is no 'sweep it under the rug clause' when it come to life, especially human life and no less animal, plant, and ecology in general. Lastly, as for these machines, I said before, if you don't like people playing with your toys, don't make them or sell them...

Oh bugger. Umm, I cannot indulge the fullness of that question here. But I will say this: Humanity has gained no knowledge, discovered nothing. That is a fact. They have taken elements of genetically built-in knowledge --in all of them-- and rebuilt the DNA sequence of it, to their likening...

As again about the attack thing, it was a compliment. but again, the mind of duality wouldn't get it. you see me attacking, when all I am doing is revealing what you already have, a piece of wood either in your proverbial eye, else one you lean on for comfort, else-else one you are holding with all your strength to keep the roof of Quality from bringing down the house of Duality. Sadly, mrpopo, it is inevitable. The house will come down, whether you or the theists like it or not. Remember, you both built it, lived in it, remodeled it --even tried to refute the 'prophecy' of: "A house divided cannot stand", by forming that new roof called Quality [of life] And now, thankfully, it will be the death of both science and religion. Both have successfully flooded the world with everything it's got. Nothing left. What's done is done. now its time for both to die peacefully and let the real humanity shine through...

James.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did I say you left out the creation of the gun itself? I said "aspect". Ironic for someone who likes to critique my reading skills.
  
  As it is, the aspect of the creation of the gun I was referring to was the reason for its creation, which you continually ignore. Before science was even established, we used weapons. Science just makes these weapons more effective, but the heart of the problem lies in the ancient thinking, not in the modern weaponry.
  
  What is your point? Yes, without that knowledge we couldn't make atomic bombs or nuclear reactors. Just like without the knowledge of bacteria, we couldn't make biological weapons or immunological techniques. Science can't be good or evil in itself, only the specific ways it's being used.
  
  So humanity has gained no knowledge, and yet has "taken elements of genetically built-in knowledge". That implies gaining knowledge. But you've managed to dodge the question anyway.
  
  An attack being a compliment? That's news to me.
  
  May I add that I find you slightly deranged as well
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Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago
A few last points, before I close my posts on this:

first, both science and religion, over six millennium, have been striving for immortality. Fortunately, it cannot be achieved using their present applications, as much as they want to 'believe' it can be achieved.

Second, science claims it is just barely beginning to reach the threshold of discovery, even now with these apparent achievements / advancements. They believe they are on the apex of a great discovery. History has shown EVERY single nation, notion, action of humanity precisely at this juncture has fallen flat, even with past references to others failures. It happened to religion and yes, science will be no different.

The hope of humanity is lost in its own vanity. And the future of humanity does not rest on the shoulders of an invisible angry deity, nor does it rest on technology, even more it does not rest on the regression to caveman, or the self or the worship of another man but a return to understanding why humans were created and what their purpose is as the creation. Why they should walk with Creator not bow to G/gods of thought or glass, steel and gold.

The purpose and worth of humanity far exceeds all the aforementioned by 'light years'. Focus on that. Focus on the truth, not what is good or bad, right or wrong. Let go of the failures of humanism, determinism and any other ism. Arise above your assumed discoveries, ideologies, hand-me-down ritual beliefs and their systems -synthetic or organic.

Enjoy the night or day, wherever you are on this planet.

James.
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  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Immortality
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula
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ceciliabeltranposted 13 years ago
The point is, the problem lies at the heart of man, not the garments he wears.
Religion and Science are garments. They are the means through which we express our desire to control the external, without really knowing the landscapes within.
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Cecilia! How have you been?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  really good actually! do you visit "that place" in facebook?
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, cilia! Been running in the same hood, trying to explain logical fallacies. You'd think I was trying to explain how to walk on water!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  technically, you put a glass stage just a few inches below, so the actor could walk on water...
  
  ah well, what can we do, we work with what is available to us.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Something better. No glass, no wet feet. Same principle that was employed during an experiment I was part of a few years ago. Disturbing. Unsettling. Revealing. Can't talk about it much, but it has to do w/ hypnosis.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i've seen and heard many things I wouldn't even repeat to myself
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Is God trying to send us a message and the human race isn't listening?

Yes and NO ...

God did send us many messages all of which was speaking of a time such as this.

What we are now seeing isnot another message but is the results of our times of which past messages were talking about.

or something like that.
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ceciliabeltranposted 13 years ago
Quine defines logic as:

"Logic is the study of necessary truths and of systematic ways of expressing and establishing such truths"

so logic is a system of establishing truths...it is not therefore the truth itself.
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earnestshubposted 13 years ago
Logic and religion go together like pickled cucumbers in ice cream.
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