Curious: Why do people say "jesus said?"

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   ...when this jesus person (if he existed,) never wrote or spoke a word of what exists between the covers of the NT?
   It's all 100% heresay!
   Pls prove me wrong and provide me with just one (1) word in the "fairytale" NT that he wrote.
   Qwark

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      Apostle Jackposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The same way you say that your book said.You got yours from somewhere.SO, i believe in what Jesus said than what you said.

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      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      they, we, I .you,  do it because of our need to make what we are saying sound offical. nothing more

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         qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Dutchman:
         Ya'll never catch me saying it. :
         Saying it to sound official?
         Beats me what that means.
         Official?
         Qwark

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            dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I Meant, to be said  like a Bible Historian, a suposidly well trained authority, . and yes I will not make the mistake either, no good.
            
            start off with Jesus said, or says...like it is official, final authority. make it sound important.  Like that

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               qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               ok got'cha Dutchman..:
               Qwark

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      jcnasiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Qwark,
      Do you really doubt the existence of Jesus?
      
      Now to answer your question.  I believe the Bible to be true for many reasons, and several books in the New Testament are written in the style of historical narratives or biographies, and in these books, it says, "Jesus said, '....'" so that's why I use the phrase, 'Jesus said..."

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         qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         jcnasia:
         
         Ok NP.
         
         But using the same "logic : ) I will say: ..."and "Cinderella" said."
         
         The diff "tween you and me is that I know when I'm reading a fairytale.  :
         
         Qwark

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            jcnasiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Qwark,
            There is a big difference between a fairytale like Cinderella and the narrative accounts in the Bible.
            
            Here's a quote from C. S. Lewis that helps.
            
            "Of this text there are only two possible views. Either this is reportage - though it may no doubt contain errors - pretty close up to the facts; nearly as close as Boswell. Or else, some unknown writer in the second century, without known predecessors, or successors, suddenly anticipated the whole technique of modern, novelistic, realistic narrative. If it is untrue, it must be narrative of that kind. The reader who doesn't see this has simply not learned to read."
            
            You can google the above quote to find the whole article if you want.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Fat chance of that happening! I have never seen a religionist address the contents of a link.
               
               Goddunit is about as good as it gets!

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                  jcnasiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Then maybe he'll address the quote.  Did the writers of the gospels anticipate the whole technique of modern, novelistic, realistic narrative?

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                     qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     jcnasia:
                     
                     How would any of us know?
                     
                     All we can do is offer an opinion, we weren't there!
                     
                     You, I'm sure, know what opinions are worth...right?
                     
                     So lets get serious and just agree that since none of us was there, we can only guess what was really goin' on...:
                     
                     Qwark

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                        jcnasiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Qwark,
                        
                        This is a serious question.  Besides, you started this forum and have used several posts to mock Christians for not answering, and now you write my answer off as just an opinion, just a guess.
                        
                        Well, here are three guesses.  Which one do you think it is?
                        
                        Guess 1:
                        The gospels in the NT are of the genre 'historical records'.  They are accurate.
                        
                        Guess 2:
                        The gospels in the NT are of the genre 'historical records', but they are inaccurate.  But this leaves us with a few questions such as how could they be so inaccurate as to make up miracles?  And if the records aren't true, why did so many people accept them as truth?
                        
                        Guess 3:
                        The authors of the gospels developed a completely new genre of literature--realistic, fictional narrative.  There are no previous examples, and no examples afterwards until modern times.  How did they do this?

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                           qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           G'mornin' JC:
                           
                           Yep I did start this thread "KNOWING" full well EXACTLY what I'd get back as responses: opinions, guesses, conjecture et al.
                           
                           They're all that's available.
                           
                           You are providing!  :
                           
                           This thread is only "serious" to those who believe in, fairys, tinkerbell, trolls, wizards, goblins, the toothfairy, santa claus,...you know 'em. I'm not gonna list 'em all.
                           
                           TY :
                           
                           Qwark

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     No, but I have a terrible feeling I'm about to learn far too little about it.

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                  jcnasiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Since you're not a religionist, maybe you will address the article. Smiley face!  (how do you make the smiley faces?)

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                     earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Like this seriously, look at the formatting tag near opposite where it tells you to submit, there are a few in there.

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                        jcnasiaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                          Thanks

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           You are most welcome!

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               qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Why would I do that?
               Earn answered for me.
               
               Qwark

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         jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "Do you really doubt the existence of Jesus?"
         
         According to bible, jesus was a famous man. But as we have no evidence to prove that, though we have more left overs by lesser known personalities, and all the bible is just a collection of stories that is validated by magic and not corroborated by history, we have to doubt the existence of a jesus as described by the bible. There might have been a local preacher by name of jesus, but certainly he is not the one in bible, as the bible one is followed by "multitudes". The Jesuses, who were followed by a decent crowd, were not the bible jesus either(like jesus des damneus).

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2. 62

   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   c'mon "fundies," ya know ya have an answer.
   
   Even tho it "can't" be a logical one, lets have some fun with this question.
   
   Impress us!
   
   We know ya have no way to back up your answers and ya might look foolish , but hey, ya only live once(you know this too) so, just for the fun of it "GO FOR IT!"  :
   
   Qwark

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   Muldanianmanposted 13 years ago

   Christians refer to what has been recorded in the bible as the sayings of Jesus, and for such believers, the bible is an accurate recording of Christ's teachings.  They believe the bible is the truth because it is the word of God.  And they know it is the word of God, because it says so in the bible.  The fact that the books of the New Testament were written decades after the time of Christ does not effect a believer's faith in its truth.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Quite true Muldanian! 2 thumbs  up!

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         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Writings could get you killed in those days. Nearly all of the New Testament was passed by word of mouth. (Until they find older copies of the first texts) Some fifty years after, I can still remember  "Ask not, what your country can do for you..." although, I have never seen a copy of the actual speech.

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            qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Druid;
            Writing can get ya killed today! Nuthin's changed.
            Yes, the ready for promulgation NT, didn't hit the news stands until almost 300 yrs after the alledged jesus died.
            I Listened to JFK mouth those words...Yeh, I'm that old...
            Qwark

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4. 62

   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   Wow!
   Why ain't I gettin' any play on this one?
   I have a feelin' the fundies don't know.
   Their silence speaks volumes...:
   Qwark

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      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      First of all, you answered your own question.
      Jesus did not pen a single word we have today. So, there's nothing to answer.
      Second. The silence is, for me, in any case, not worth the time to type a response!
      But, I did it anyway. Lord knows why?

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         qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         DJ:
         
         "lord knows why?"   
         
         DJ, c'mon, You know danged good'n well that if a "fundie" says: "jesus said" and I challenge him/her with "jesus never wrote a word of the NT, there's usually a banquet of "illogicity" (word?...it looks good. I'll leave it) flowing forth in an effort to backup their unreasoned belief.
         
         I can only believe that their silence is indicative of their confusion.
         
         I just thought I'd TRY to liven up the "forum" which seems to be losing steam.
         
         Qwark

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            heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            1 John 2:22 - Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.
            
            1 John 4:3- but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
            
            2 John 1:7 - Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

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               earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes most of us know what is written in the bible about the subjects thanks.

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5. 60

   A Quadfatherposted 13 years ago

   People tend to paint God and Jesus all over their choices and actions like pumping extra grease in an axel. They think it gets them farther down the road. Smart folks that notice and take another close look!

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   There are a few different reasons to say "Jesus said"
   
      Often I do it to show that "Jesus said"  something that is contrary to the Christian doctrine. 
    
       I'm talking about prophesy ...  end of days ... second coming and all that.
   
      
     I can write a direct quote that says  "Jesus said such and such"  and someone is going to say   "That can not be true !! ... BECAUSE ...."
     They say that they believe what Jesus said .. "IF"  we can interpret it.
    
      Then I will say ...  but Jesus said such and such.
   
      Then they say   but Paul said "this or that"
   
     I guess it is all in how we interpret it.
     And that says everything.

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7. 60

   A Quadfatherposted 13 years ago

   Wow, kinda new twist on an old debate. Basicly everyone (in theology ponderance circles) wants to find Q. The supposed oral and written saying of Christ. The similarities found in the gospels are believed to be found in this elusive supposed phantom tome. There is this 30 to 60 year gap before the first "books/letters/gospels" started being spread around in mass. The teachings/sayings of Jesus are what filled in that gap of time.
   Now I understand the original question was more of a slight of hand dismissal of the Bible. Well, whatever. You may have your beliefs but do let others have theirs. Taken out of the stale context of religion, the teachings of Jesus and the Bible are life changing wisdom able to heal and restore wounded souls.
   It's study is highly recommended!

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Quadfather:
      
      "The teachings/sayings of Jesus are what filled in that gap of time." Is not true.
      
      The "alledged" "teachings/sayings of jesus" were, alledgedly being passed from mouth to mouth, from generation to generation.
      
      The NT, intoto, was not ready for promulgation for almost 300 yrs after the "alledged" crucifixion of the "alledged" jesus.
      
      Study the asininity of the "Council of Nicea." Constantine, Arius and about 300 bishops from all over the "known" world trying to figure out whether this jesus person was god or the son-of-god. Ludicrous to the max!
      
      Anyway Quadfather, I will admit it was an interesting study and certainly played an important role in the final decisions I've made concerning monotheistic belief.
      
      Back to my question: "Why do people sway jesus said?"
      
      Qwark

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   jacharlessposted 13 years ago

   1. No such word as "heresay".
   2. Hearsay is rarely documented but is accepted as conversational validity in many places.
   3. I fail to see where anyone -fundi or bundi- says this man wrote any of the books never mind anything in them.
   4. Did people of history quote things he said and/or did? Seems likely as any other public figure in history.
   
   "Alexander never really existed, since he didn't write himself the History of The Empire" Right?
   
   
   Cheers,
   James.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ...correct! The word is hearsay. Jeez!...and I thought I was perfect!
      
      Just don't say: "Alexander said" 'cause I'd challenge ya on that too.
      
      Qwark

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   qwarkposted 13 years ago

   ...now this is more fun!  :
   Qwark

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    klarawieckposted 13 years ago

    because they can't say "Jesus wrote"

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