ALL CHRISTIANS ON HUBPAGES

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johnb0127posted 16 years ago
CALLING ALL CHRISTIANS ON HUBPAGES! FOR ALL WHO KNOW THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HEAVEN WHEN THEY DIE TO BE WITH THE LORD AND OTHER BELIEVERS FOR ETERNITY!!
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  .....and what about all those indigenous tribes who haven't heard of Jesus but believe in a higher power like their own God? How about all the children that haven't even had the chance to hear of Jesus becasue they can't read yet? How about all those who are deaf, dumb and blind or one of the other who can't read or see that Jesus? And how about those who are mentally disabled......are they Christians and will they go to heaven?
  
  What about those who believe in Jesus but not the book that iswritten about him? What about those who think the Bible has some good in it but question those who found the writings and twisted them into some political game? Are they going to Heaven?
  
  Do you know how to read the Bible for yourself as a book and have you don't reading on the history and the people of those times and chronology of what and when it happened?
  
  Did not Jesus say that we love him because he first loved us--and there were no strings attached nor did he descriminate against anyone or any people or any belief? There is a verse in the Bible that says that all sins are far from us as much as east is to west and north is to south. There is also a verse in the Bible that tells you that not all the teachings of Jesus is in that book. Jesus also said in that Bible that we are not to go by any book and he was talking about the Bible or the books that were to be the Bible.
  
  If you were to write about what someon said to you 40 years ago could you get it right word for word?
  
  Jesus also said that The Kingdom of GOD is WITHIN Us and not outside of us and other men cannot gain for us our own salvation?
  
  Did you know that you cannot put God in a box and keep him all to yourself and then tell others they need to please your rules first? God doesn't work that way.
  
  Jesus wasn't descrimanatory so why are Christians who are supposed to be following his words?
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Wow you have a lot of questions! In regards to your question, "Do you know how to read the Bible for yourself as a book and have you read on the history and the people of those times and chronology of what and when it happened?" Well, actually yes. You have P'SHAT; which is the literal translation of the text. Then you have TE'RASH: which is the historical and cultural context in which the text was written; And then you have "REMEZ" which is the comparison of texts with other texts in the bible to understand an obscure statement. And then you have "SOD" Which is revelation, the highest form of understanding of the scriptures. Where people get confused is when they are trying to understand a text that was written with "SOD" in mind. To understand the "SOD" translation of an obscure text you need the help of the Holy Spirit. You can only receive the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ. That is why without the help of the Holy Spirit one can only understand the bible in a literal and historical context. Which is why of course people take certain verses out of context.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  OIC Your another one who can tell who has the Holy Spirit and who doesn't....interesting.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That is kind of a contradictory statement don't you think? "Jesus said in the Bible that we are not to go by any book and he was talking about the Bible or the the books that were to be in the Bible"?
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That is what is printed in the Bible............hmm makes me think again who and what the motivation was to put that in the Bible in the first place...
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Makes me think too although I never read that. Maybe that is why there is a problem with so many scriptures and one of the reason they were not included. Though I do agree about reading other things besides the Bible for another tasty treat. lol
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I just thought that Jesus knew they were writing about him and making all kinds og assumptions and he was telling us not to go by what they all say becasue some of it may not be true. If you go by human error about history and things like that, it would occur to any man that if they were to write down something soeone said some--say 30 0r even 20 years ago--would you remember what they said word for word? I doubt it very much. They may remember the event and each person that saw the event will also come away with a different perspective. So maybe Jesus knew all about this prior and somehow it was left in that Bible--but for what purpose? If they wanted parishioners to be controlled that certainly would not do the job.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  He did say not to trust man, men wrote the bible and all the other stuff and I also agree with the point about accuracy after 20-30 years but when I look past that at least we can see the same message that hasn't changed right? And the same warnings about how we react to each other, right?
  
  But yet we keep doing it and we get so caught up in wanting people to know the truth but what truth is there but the one you call your own, right? I figure that is why Jesus also said, let preachers preach, let the unrighteous go on being unrighteous, let those who can prophecy, prophecy etc...
  
  But for us, all we have to do is spread the message of love, be kind, help when we can, be faithful etc. It's like we see the fire coming over the mountain but trying to blow it out just adds fuel to the flames and make it bigger.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I agree. Love always wins and hatred and judging and fear always loses--even if they were used to get that love. You simply cannot love and judge at the same time.
  Forgive them for they know not what they do.
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, that's why I wonder about you lately, you seem so harsh on people who you should know by now are only doing what they think they should. This includes you and me and this poor guy you just punched in the face lol.
  
  I liked it better when you were always talking about love. I wish you did promise me a rose garden so I could hold you to it. lol
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well I am just tired. You need to read my thread in the Hubbers hangout. I will be on and off for the next few weeks--very busy.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ANSER TO THE QUESTION: "What about all those indigenous tribes who haven't heard of Jesus but believe in a higher power like their own God?"
  
  What do you mean by what about them? Do you mean will they go to heaven? I'm assuming that's what you mean. The Law of Gravity. Does it matter that a baby doesn't understand it? No. If a baby crawls out the crib it will fall. The Law applies to the baby just like everybody else. As far as fairness, meaning that Jesus is God but these tribes did not get a chance to hear the Gospel preached, how can they believe in whom they have not heard? Jesus said the end will not come until this gospel is preached to the ends of the earth. As far as believing in their own God; I'm so tired of this particular claim. If God is God, how is it that someone can create a new God? Either there is God or there is not. PERIOD. If there is one true God then it naturally follows that any other god's that are not the one true God are not God. Simple. I do not understand why someone would want to take a chance in worshiping a God who cannot deliver or save. If I worship a table, does that make the table God? Does the table then become living and powerful and all-knowing?
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  SiddSinghposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I am a pagan, idol-worshiping Hindu. I worship god in 33 million manifestations, animate and inanimate. Sometimes I worship Fire, sometimes I worship Air, sometimes I worship Water and most of the times I worship nothing.
  
  ANY CHANCE I WILL BE GOING TO HEAVEN ???
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Not a chance mate - you will be burning in hellfire for all eternity with us atheists.
  
  Bring a bottle
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  SiddSinghposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I suspected so!
  
  What would you like to have?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Gentleman Jack. Might as well make it the good stuff - all things considered.
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I have it on divine authority, that all Jack, Gentelman Jack and Single Barrel Jack will be in heaven with me and my buddies. You guys get Evan Willimas ... it's hell damn it!
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No worries, Mr Knowles - I have some home-distilled raki. Truly the drink of the devil
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhhhhh. Maybe I won't have to change my stance after all. As long as it is not home made corn whiskey. ~ Had a bad experience with that....
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No problem - this is professionally made by Kostas the Goat-herder. I have one every morning and have not started to go blind yet.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well, this stuff was professionally made by Dwayne the redneck, and you need to build a certain level of tolerance before you can drink it for breakfast. It is the only alcohol that made me gag on the first mouthful - which should have been a clue (message from god) that I should cease and desist from having a second mouthful.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  This is good stuff, made from the left-over mash after winemaking. A hot raki with a little cinnamon, nutmeg and honey is a great way to start a cold winter morning. Good for a cold, too.
  
  Mind you, I was given the Bulgarian version, once. That was nasty
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Dang, Mark, if that stuff wasn't proof of God, it was certainly proof of the devil!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I was too busy being sick to draw any firm conclusions.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmmmmmmm - might have to change my stance.............
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Mind you, the Cubans are communist and therefore godless atheists. You won't be wanting those cigars in heaven, then........
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  BDazzlerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Cubans are illeagal in the US ... the best we get are Dominicans, and I'm fairly certain they're catholic. I understand some Baptists are going to let some of the Catholics in, so we'll be fine.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Oh John, what an interesting here ye, here ye, one would think that you are a King requesting presence of your people. Of Course I am a queen , so what is it that you are looking for or needing??
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
Hey, just noticed this one. Love it! Hello everyone!
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knolyourselfposted 16 years ago
" I do not understand why someone would want to take a chance in worshiping a God who cannot deliver or save."
Assume here you are not taking a chance. You have got the one. So you must be in heaven for otherwise prove it.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Friend, the Kingdom of Heaven is near you. To enter it you must be born again. You want to see heaven? Well get born again and I will show you. If you want to know how to get born again; read Romans 10:9, John 3:3-7, and Acts 2:38
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  jjrubioposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect- born again is not literal as the BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS have mistaken it for....all it means is after you have decided to wash your sins clean your are born into a new way of life, a life dedicated to GOD. Jesus was not Born again...for there were no sins for him to wash away.....it is merely a symbol of the inner dedication already made from within.
  
  READ THE BIBLE
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  johnb0127posted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thats what he is saying! He is saying you must be born again to become a Christian. Then you get into heaven.
  
  --John
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Totally! But this is common in these forums. It has been a frequent occurrence for someone to not get what I'm saying even though I left no room, (or so I thought) for argument. She basically just said what I said in her own words and then said I was wrong. As long as she accepts Jesus, that's all I care about. How are we supposed to win the lost if we can't get along with each other. And then she ends it with the statement, READ THE BIBLE. LOL! How about PAY ATTENTION! LOL!
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  johnb0127posted 16 years agoin reply to this
  HaHa! AMEN brother! lol
  
  --John
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Amen on my nuts. Jesus would be disappointed with the both of you.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What in the world are you talkin about son? If someone is not reasoning properly and I point it out is this wrong? Why is it when I defend myself someone always get's offended over it. But when the statement that started the whole thing is initially uttered all stay quite? I will never figure that one out! Do you want to become better, stronger and more efficient? If you do, then this certainly does not come about by ignoring challenges to your belief systems. If you don't like it when I stand up for myself, that's just too bad. Do I seek to please men or do I seek to please God? If I seek to please men than I cease to be the servant of Jesus Christ.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  First off my dad is better looking, so don't call me son, your purpose is not to defend, it is to stroke your own ego which has become very apparent in these forums, I don't get what you are saying better, stronger, more efficient.....until you have walked in my shoes, the life I've lived, you have no right to judge how I stand, nor do I have a right to judge you on how think the best way to go about your time here, don't take the stance, "I got Jesus, hahahahaha, you're going to Hell" that's ignorant. The world is complex, the people of the world are complex, God is more complex than you will ever understand, but keep speaking, you will only prove my point.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well first off if your dad looks anything like you I beg to differ. : )
  Who ever said anything about I got Jesus and you're going to hell? Don't try to put me in that bunch of people. That's lame to go around telling everyone they are going to hell. That's an invalid argument by itself. This is why there are so many denominations. If people could just put their emotions to the side we would be better off. What is your doctrine exactly. So far you appear to only have something to say when you are taking shots at Christians. Why don't you say something of substance and then explain it. You just make statements and then you don't say anything to support it. My invitation is extended. Forget all this talk, do you want to go lay hands on the sick or not? What about demonstration and power. Words can only do so much. I want to see what kind authority you have when we come face to face with demonic spirits. I will let God work on your heart. Quit judging by appearance
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  jjrubioposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  How about be a CHRISTIAN !!!!!!
  
  why don't you actually read the bible instead of being self righteous hypocrites...Jesus would never talk to people the way you do. I didn't say anything mean to you in the original comment I made. obviously you felt threatened to have to reply. Whatever you believe is what you believe....don't be a fanatic and don't judge "therefore you will be judged"......Try to apply the fruitages of the spirit instead of showing your worldy and unrighteous traits.
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Knoly, don't do it. Get the garlic and cross.
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Lady Guinevereposted 16 years ago
"As far as fairness, meaning that Jesus is God but these tribes did not get a chance to hear the Gospel preached, how can they believe in whom they have not heard? Jesus said the end will not come until this gospel is preached to the ends of the earth. As far as believing in their own God; I'm so tired of this particular claim."

Well then your Jesus will never come becasue there are always babies being born everywhere and it will never stop.that is how the world works and creation.
Be tired of hearing it all you want. You will never make it go away.
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goldentoadposted 16 years ago
I like ranch dressing with my french fries
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's way out there in left field!!!
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  sorry wrong forum
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Noooooooo....really? You mean you didn't mean to derail the subject and bring into this forum some laughter?? Tell me it's not so!
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I would never think of such a thing.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Lol! Me too. While our wives our arguing, I think I will go to the store. Do you want something?
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
Lady Guinevere:

OIC Your another one who can tell who has the Holy Spirit and who doesn't....interesting."

If you want to discuss the topic of the Holy Spirit, I'm assuming that you believe there is such a thing. Assuming you believe that there is a Holy Spirit, what does the bible say about the Holy Spirit? Have you not read about the gifts of the Spirit? If you research the book of Acts, you will find that without exception the baptism of the Holy Spirit was an observable occurrence. Through receiving the gift of "Discernment of spirits" one can discern which spirits someone carries whether it be good or bad. God administers these gifts in three's to His children through His Son Jesus. There is a counterfeit that will be exposed in this time and season. The time for subtleties has come to an end. The sons of God are manifesting and coming from behind the veil. Whoever resists the preaching of The Gospel will be met with Angelic opposition. I dare someone who carries a spirit of the anti-christ to come near me. I challenge you all, the way Elijah challenged the false prophets of baal and defeated them all by the power of God. So to answer your question, "Do I know who has The Holy Spirit and who doesn't?" YES. For God is a consuming fire and all who try to stand against His servants are as stubble. What? Do you want to dispatch evil spirits, I laugh at them. I've been given authority over them! Repent while the door is open. Why not be used of God mightily in this final hour. I repented of my carnality and I feel liberty and a big burden lifted. Why not join us in our dominion and do great exploits?
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johnb0127posted 16 years ago
Wow, sorry guys! Forgot about this forum or I would have answered some questions, but it looks like Loan Consultant helped yall out

I am glad to see people interested in Christianity. Thats what I was aiming at when I posted my little ALL CHRISTIANS comment. LOL

--John
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'm more interested in getting some french fries and some ranch
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  How far are you from Jack in The Box?
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Not close enough to go.
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
I'd like some of those fries GT, if you get some...

Also, people can preach, believe, not believe, teach, hate, love...whatever. The bottom line is: Nobody really knows what will happen when they die. You can SAY you will go to heaven...are you POSITIVE, or are you just comforted by the acceptance of the bible and it's writings by society? None of us know...
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  First of all I don't need comfort. But there is truth to what you are saying, and I will show you.
  
  You said, "People can, preach, believe, not believe, teach, hate, love...whatever." I like this because yes, "People can preach, believe, not believe, teach, hate, love...whatever" Truth is Truth. Period. Someone could say there is no God, but are they positive? Or are they just more comfortable to live life according to their own lusts if they believe there is no God? Is it easier on their conscience if they believe they will not have to give an account for their actions? And just for the record, I don't believe in just saying something for the sake of saying it. I don't have time for empty words, I need results. The Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am going to heaven if I were to die before Jesus returned. But that is more advanced theology for those who are just inquiring. That's like trying to understand Algebra when you don't even know basic arithmetic. There are some basic beliefs that one must have to progress into the inquiries you want to go into. You must first accept that we were created. Then you must accept that we were created by God. Then you must accept that the bible is the Word of God. Then, you must believe that Jesus died for the remittance of sins. Without accepting these 4 basic premises we cannot go any further. For everything else builds upon these basic premises.
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johnb0127posted 16 years ago
O yes I do! It says in the Bible that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The Bible also says that the only way to get into heaven is through him! If we repent and put our trust on God and our sins on the cross, then we will go to heaven to be with the Lord when we die!

--John
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  Amy Gposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yes John, if you yourself are sure of that sort of thing... that's the point here for me. If you believe, then great! Truthfully, you don't know that all of that is true anymore than I know it's not. I'm glad you have found something that brings you solidity in your life, truly. I think some of us just aren't convinced, for many reasons.
  
  Loan Consultant:
  
  I get what you're saying, and it works - for you. I do have that foundation, because I was raised in a Christian home. Life has dealt me and those around me a ridiculous amount of blows since then, none of which can be explained away with things like "it was god's will." All of these things bring question to my mind about a ton of things. I mean absolutely no disrespect for those of you who feel as strongly as you obviously feel. That being said, MY life has brought events that seem to have absolute incompatibility to what the bible says. A huge contradiction that has flung me from Christian upbringing to "wait a sec, that makes no sense." Maybe someday I'll "get it" the way you do... maybe not. Neither way is wrong to me.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I saw your post, how dare you just come in there insulting me like that with your weak rhetoric, making unwarranted claims in regards to something that doesn't even concern you? Your response is the type of spirit I've been dealing with for the past few days. It's basically been a tag team. And someone will walk in, as I'm replying to your nonsense, assuming that I just came out the blue and attacked you and then they too will be upset. Be here's what's hypocritical about the whole thing, how did you come at me? It was surely far from friendly. And how do you expect me to take it? I've said nothing to provoke you. You have no idea about my authority. Do you want to test my authority in Christ? Do you want to challenge my office? I will give you one opportunity and I will intercede on your behalf, because your little 2nd grade outburst just interfered with the foundation that was laid. If you don't understand what is going on pray about it or else just be silent. If you are that subject to your emotions, is it any wonder that you are not experiencing God's best. Whether you recognize it or not this is a ministry and you are interfering with my preaching. You think this is a joke. That forum is for unbelievers who question and attack Christians to test their mind. If they pass through all of that unscathed, then they are a little more open to what they have to say. And you just came in there and interfered with all of the work I did with your little outburst. Either you are with me or you are against me. But it's ok because many come and go, so I will let it go. And I must, lest I loose my anointing. But I haven't been this upset with someone in a long time. You are prophetic but where you are lacking is you need to spend more time in your bible. There is more to the Kingdom of God than just pure emotion. Do not let your emotion become a hinderance to you and God's best. Do you want to test my authority? Give me a name of someone close to you who needs prayer. I need you to drop all strife in your heart against me so God will honor my intercession for you. If you are indeed a believer. If you are not a believer, well that's another topic. Balls in your court.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What do you accomplish with such rhetoric? Obviously you are a complete failure at spreading the word if people are turning away from you. Your gloating to prove someone wrong shows that you have not comprehended what Jesus teaches, nor is belittling those who say they have a right to believe how they want. I think you are a joke, a serious joke, you may have opinions and scriptures but you don't know how to convey a message and should give up preaching. Amy is a thoughtful loving mom, who actually goes out and helps people and you have no right to tell her to be silent. I with many others hope she keeps speaking and actually keeps living a life that shows the goodness of the human heart. If I got to look forward to people like you in heaven, send me to hell. Authority? I will challenge your authority as I know anyone who claims to be an expert, is usually full of shit, and the more you speak, the more it dribbles out. You need a prayer, ask God for some humility and find a calling you might be decent at, obviously a loan consulting wanna be preacher, is not working. Son.
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  Dolores Monetposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  sheesh, i thought i'd come in here and get a bit of Christ's wisdom or read about some nice prayers or human kindness and instead run into the rant of a meglomaniac, why does religion, which is such a wonderful opportunity for folks to meditate on life, joy and suffering have to attract nasty people?
  
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  Denny Lyonposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  ***
  
  Hi, Delores, short answer: It's about power, power of the ego trying to control all around it. Ego is fearful like that, afraid to let go and let God.
  
  I always figured the whole point of Jesus was about quelling the desires of the ego to help it get in line to interact with God successfully so we could discover real freedom! But hey! I'm just some nobody mystic who enjoys cultivating the Presence of God and learning directly. The screamers are too immature/fleshly to teach yet. Maybe one day... Besides, Holy Spirit is known as The Teacher these days and is a whole lot easier to listen to.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible also states that our sins are as far from us as east is to west and north is to south--OT.
  
  If we are made from God how can we be not of God and not close to him......ponder it for awhile.
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Abhishek87posted 16 years ago
I am not a Christian, so I don't really know about the details of the Bible. But I do have some questions, I have just written a hub and then saw this forum, not trying to publicize or anything but I would like to see the comments of the people who have posted here....

http://hubpages.com/hub/Gods
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
GOLDENTOAD" Your forced me, so I will school you SON. If you were a defense attorney your client would be screwed. You make unwarranted claims with no logical support. You said I should give up preaching? How about you go preach The Word of God to a crowd then we can talk. What is it that's in question actually, my doctrine or my reply's to people's attacks on me? Why don't you try debating several sceptics at a time and then have some unlearned emotional Christian come in their and start attacking you for no reason? There is a place for emotional stimulus and fellowship. If that happens here, fine. But if not, oh well. I'm here to pull down strongholds.

Let me give you a lesson on the principles of logic. FALLACY; incorrect misleading opinions or arguments - a flaw in logic - an illusion

There are several types of FALLACIES one of which is called AD HOMINEM.

AD HOMINEM; to respond to someone's argument by making an attack upon the person, rather than addressing the argument it self - to reject a claim or argument because of disapproval of or dislike of the person.

So basically everything you just said is a fallacy based on the definition of AD HOMINEM. So if someone's response to my argument is an attack on my person, may I have your permission master to defend myself? Is it ok with you? May I lord? Do you now see with clarity? I am not called to the irrational and emotional but to the rational and logical. If some irrational or emotional Christian who is governed by their emotions just busts in on one of my debates, of course they will get upset. And I can already tell by your reply that you are governed by your emotions. Here's proof. After making the statement about your emotions, you probably started thinking, "He's judging me." Rewind, "You are governed by your emotions." It's just an assessment. I'm not saying that it's good or that it's bad. It's just a statement, but when you are dealing with irrational people they quite frequently jump to conclusions without clarifying. Here's another example of a statement you made;

Amy is a thoughtful loving mom, who actually goes out and helps people and you have no right to tell her to be silent. I will put this argument into standard form for you;

Whoever is a thoughtful loving mom, who helps people has a right to verbally attack other people.

Amy verbally attacked Eric

Therefore, Eric has to tolerate it.

This is your argument.

I'm glad that Amy does what she does, but any attack against me will not go unchallenged. Why don't you try explaining your faith to people who don't care what the bible says. Do you want to fill my position? Are you equipped? So again, in my dialogues I cling very heavily to the principles of logic, my ministry is towards those who want a rational explanation why we Christians believe the way we do. You've been on this site for a while and now you want to speak up about and try to tell me how to do my job? To whom have you explained your faith too? Why don't you try logically explain your faith to science buffs, teachers and professors, without being able to use any scripture. Do you think you can do it? Have you done it thus far? How can someone be a serious joke? That's like saying "that fat guy is really skinny". What do you challenge my Authority? Well then do so. I will hold a miracle crusade on passover and will lay hands on the sick, blind, lame and deaf and casting out demons. Do you want to be on the forefront? You think you're on my level? Then do it, I welcome it. I need help anyway. My cell number is 714-910-2414. The ball is in your court friend
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like you wasted a lot of time typing whatever is you typed out. HAHA!
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You know, with all do respect sir. Why are you trying to defend yourself against other who also believe in God? The message is supposed to be preached to those who have never heard. Logically, it would make sense that on a religion forum under a thread called, "All Christians on HP", that you are preaching to a choir.
  
  Not that I mean disrespect at all, but you said you wanted to just talk about scripture and have conversations about it but I don't see any scripture based conversation going on here.
  
  I told you already what happens on the religion forums and you must have taken the warning as something other than what it was. When I said it, it was to let you know that that it will happen and so you should just go on about what you want to talk about and not get caught up in the devils guise allowing yourself to also become victim to things that are distracting.
  
  I have talked to goldentoad and I think he is swell! And I don't have a problem with you preaching and I already said, I wouldn't interfere but right now your just fighting to defend yourself which there really is no need.
  
  The people here are very responsive and thoughtful until you don't allow them their own thoughts or opinions. I hope it makes sense and you don't take it for more than it is.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you. I wanted to send this response to Goldentoad directly, but I didn't want him to feel like he was being harassed. And although I did not want to put my response on here, I had to choose the lesser of the 2 evils.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  you are wasting all your words and time with me as I'm cool with who I am and my relationship with God, and I don't want to call you and use my cell phones minutes on someone who is busy gettin' demons, plus I got better things to do. Your foundations of God and Jesus seem weak, if the slightest breeze gets you frustrated and makes you feel you have to "take someone to school". Please.
  
  Turn the other cheek, that's what Jesus said right? No need to belittle and gloat, and sound like a sore loser. But you make for good entertainment, got another essay?
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't there normally a choir present when there is preaching? ; )
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  you even put the crickets to sleep when you preach
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  lol! I presume you're not a cricket. Which energy drinks did you have?
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  sandra rinckposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Here let me help. *hhhhhhmmmmm.....hhhhhmmmmmmm* (choir music lol) continues please I was nearly sleeping but the music woke me up.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  lol!
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  There needs to be a Christian Preaching Forum. Quote as many proverbs as you like, be as righteous as you like. I'll know to stay out of it.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  They might as well post PDF files of the bible
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  Pestposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  that would be Plagiarism??? or are they forgiven of that once the y are "saved" or flogged or fasting for 40 days and 40 nights...I am building a golden Toad! please send gold to my address at the park for this endeavor...the Golden Toad requires it!
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Totally agree on that. Preaching is only effective when people actually want to hear, that's worth noting.
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Funny that's what a lot believe these HubPages "Religion" forums are for. One of the reasons anyway. Isn't that why you came here?
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  KCC Big Countryposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I've made it perfectly clear that I was only here for the food. G'nite all!
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hi MM, no not really. I love reading Mike and someone has to save the preachers from themselves. He hasn't turned up here yet, maybe this is not meaty enough.
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
Agreed.
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
Goldentoad: OK, LOL! Ok I am laughing! You got me. Speaking of ego's yours is bigger than you think because if I respond to anything you just said, you will not be humble and hold your peace and turn the other cheek. We will keep going back and forth for the illusion of victory to gratify our ego's, and to what avail? Nothing anyone says on here about someone can carry any relevance because most of us don't even know each other. Always remember that. You know sometimes you have to just laugh it off, for in the presence of The Lord is fullness of joy. Blessed are you when men revile you and say all manner of evil against you. You know the verse. Which brings me to the topic of spiritual warfare. You know Jesus said, "In the world you shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." JOHN 16:33

You know this verse use to irritate me because, I would say to myself, "Ok Jesus, you overcame the world but what does that have to do with me?" Of course, you overcame the world, you're Jesus! But I'm just a man, do you expect me to get the same results you achieved? And if so, how? And if it's achievable, how come so few have walked in that kind of victory in times past? Is this just some kind of ideal that's unattainable? And if so, that's just really annoying! This use to be my train of thought, to the point that I considered suicide a few times. The odds seemed stacked against me. Everywhere I turned I was met with unprovoked opposition. And I'm just talking about life in general, many years ago. I told God take your gifts from me I don't want them anymore! Give them to someone else who fits the mold that people are looking for! You know Jesus said in regards to John The Baptist, "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? Someone with fine clothing? Behold people with fine clothing are in king's houses! But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, but he was more than a prophet....." MATTHEW 11:6-9
And the Lord heard my appeal and quickened this verse to me, "He who believes in me, the works that I do, he shall do also; and greater works than these shall he do because I go to my Father..." JOHN 14:12
You know I read that verse many times but that day it just really clicked. The answers are right in front of us! This verse is connected to 1JOHN5:1,4,5 which says, "Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God,..for whosoever is born of God overcomes the world, and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God!" These verses here actually delivered me from the "spirit of depression". If we look at this verse the way scientists look at their data, these verses are REALLY encouraging. Look at this my friend;

ANTECEDENTS & CONSEQUENTS

If water is put at a temperature of 32 degrees F., it will freeze.

If water is put at a temperature of 32 degrees F., - This is the antecedent
It will freeze. This is the consequent

So how does this apply to the verses?

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Son of God, -antecedent-
Is born of God! -consequent-

Whoever is born of God, -antecedent-
Overcomes the world! -consequent-

Overcome; to conquer, to surmount, and to make powerless

Now someone might take this out of context, "Does this mean conquer the world?" NO! It's in reference to what Jesus said when He said, "In the world you shall have tribulation..." Another word for tribulation is adversity. What is Jesus saying here? He saying look, in the world you will have adversity. But don't let it worry you, for I will equip you to conquer, surmount and make powerless the adversities you experience in the world! Do you see it!? Now those verses were there years before I came into this world, so why is it that I wasn't experiencing these verses in my own personal life?

"From the days of John the Baptist until now The Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force!" MATTHEW 11:12- I use to think that "the violent" in this verse meant wicked people. But Jesus said that unless a man is born again he cannot even SEE the Kingdom of Heaven. See JOHN 3:3 - So how can someone take something violently and by force if they can't even see it? The word violent has a negative connotation, a neutral connotation and a positive connotation. But because of the overwhelming bombardment of negativity we always assume that the word "violent" so rendered is negative in context. But let's look closer, here are some more definitions of that word taken from Websters;

Full of force, strong, intense, fierce, passionate. So from this we could conclude that in order to experience God's best we have to have a strong, intense, passion about the things of God. This is no mystery in regards to success principles. For everyone who has succeeded in any given endeavor knows that you must enter in with this state of mind if you are to have any chance of succeeding. I'll give you one more verse before I loose you; "Be not slothful in business; but FERVENT in spirit serving The Lord." ROMANS 12:11- -Another rendering for the word FERVENT is; Intense, fiery, passionate! Do you see how that matches up with our definition in MATTHEW 11:12?! I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD!!!!
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Pestposted 16 years ago
Bwahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahhah.....**inhale** hahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahah....**inhale**hahahahahahahahhaha...Toad you are to cool for shoes, my friend.
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
I'm just here for the fries. Any left? If not, I'm heading to hell, I've heard they make some hot ones there!
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  For you KCC, I will go to jack in the box!
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
Dammit, GT....I was so looking forward to going to hell instead! *stomps foot* Can I still get fries in hell? I'll take some those egg rolls from Jack in the Box though! Sweet and sour sauce please. Thank you! You're a dear!
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  No problemo, how 'bout some mystery meat tacos for 99 cents too?
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
What's up with them putting sliced cheese on them, too? Don't they know how to shred cheese? That ain't right!

(there's comments on this forum post that are longer than many people's hubs!)
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  imagine if they just made a few hubs instead of wasting their time trying to convince me of accepting a bad loan.
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  Pestposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Can i get some nachos...and a rootbeer. all this hilarity has me famished...
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  But you see guys I believe and that doesn't make me a bad person does it??
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I think most of us believe and/or respect each other's beliefs, some people don't have that respect and like to send everyone to hell. But we love you no matter what.
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  Pestposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. and i couldn't have said it better myself.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  phewwwww ....... I was scared for a minute as everyone runs when you say you believe and knock you on your noggin', or scream at you when you are opened minded on subjects.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  sorry, not in the budget, I'll get you some sliced lemons and sugar if you want, they give those for free
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  Pestposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  maybe DB can conjure me up some nachos from his god...sour cream please.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, you got me there. lol
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like you are on the case with the Hub writing
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Well we are all actually on the same page. I typed the hub last night though. It was from a debate I had with some Jehovah's Witnesses.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Always interesting - I used to work for one. Very nice guy, but we did not talk about religion much - he had a policy of not bringing his religion to work.
  
  Ouzo - it is a Greek spirit and tastes on aniseed. You mix it with a little water and sip, with a little food. If you do manage to find some, let me know and I will tell you how to drink it properly - it is dangerous if misused
  
  I would hazard a guess that you are a wine man!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Are you psychic? I love wine. This drink though. Ouzo- is it similar to Sake?
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Much more evil (although Saki is good). The stuff I drink is 45% alcohol - handle with care!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the warning. lol! I'll tell my wife how strong it is the day after. lol
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
I don't think they sell nachos at Jack in the Box, do they? I think you get three eggrolls to an order....we can share them. But no double dipping into the sweet n' sour unless you get your own!

AEvans....believe want you want, hun. It doesn't make you a bad person. To each his own, to each his own.

I'm just here for the food. It's late and I'm hungry.
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
Just sour cream? No jalapenos? No guacamole? No pico de gallo? No shredded meat product? Nothing but cheese and sour cream?
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I want all of the above as that all sounds yummy. YUMMY YUMMY YUMMY!!! Let me know when it is done.
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
At least they're getting some typing skills this way.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yup!!! LOL now where are the goodies???? I think I am getting quicker myself and thank goodness my son is in bed.
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
allright guys...
I'm back, and I talked to God today. After it was all said and done, this is what he revealed in my head and most certainly in my heart:

He would like to add some chicken nuggets to our order; hold the honey mustard please. Gives him indigestion.
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
GT is supposed to be making the run to Jack in the Box. He'll surely be back in a minute AEvans. I'm sure he'll bring extra for you. Amy, I bet God's on the phone with GT right now placing that order, so we'll be good. Amy tell God to tell GT if you want to add a little something for y'self.
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
I just ate quesadillas, so I'm good... you guys go ahead, just bring me a lemonade.
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KCC Big Countryposted 16 years ago
You had quesadillas and didn't share? That wasn't very nice of you, Amy. I'm telling God.
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Pestposted 16 years ago
god is telling me that I need three days of dead sleep....I are tired...I will see you all in the morning...if the rapter, rapper, doesn't come over night...
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sweet dreams Pest.
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goldentoadposted 16 years ago
I tried to go to jack in the box, but I saw pest's momma working the fries, I didn't truss the conditions and left, better to be safe than to find a loose pubic hair in my fries, or get some "taco sauce" in my taco that I didn't request
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  jjrubioposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  -
  
  Hey toady....I saw you stood up for me ( back a few pages on this forum) ..I haven't been on in a bit....Sorry you jumped into the fire of a Hypocrite's RANT right there...obviously LOAN CONSULTANT is full of himself and he is self righteous....anyways thanks for sticking up for me again. We all know that I was clarifying something. I don't think bad of anyone. Alot of people who are Born again think that ONCE SAVED always SAVED...and thats not the case. You have to maintain your lifestyle not just figure that once you are baptized ( in any religion) thats your free pass to Paradise...it aint that easy!
  
  I am a real christian. I respect all people. Exactly what christians are supposed to be....CHRIST LIKE...not gloating and trying to belittle just as you told MR LOAN CONSULTANT.. he should be trying to make money on escrows instead of debating religion on HP....Thanks buddy!
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I was thinking that was what you were saying in your previous post "Born again think that ONCE SAVED always SAVED...and thats not the case." Agreed.
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's a good point, I'm wondering if the SAVED think they have some kind of immunity when preaching to the people. Not the case.
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
Crap, KCC! Sorry - I have one left, and it's for you. You can tell on me... according to some, my fate is already sealed!
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Is alright Amy, I'll save you, I'll intercept for you!
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
Hey JJ! Nice to see you here again... I agree with you. I haven't perfected it yet, but it's a work in progress!
KCC - I was here for the food too. Well, I wasn't initially, but I am hungry again...
Jewels~ Thanks! We can do that back-to-back matrix thing if it gets too rowdy.
Guess I'm going to hit the feathers - nite all!
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  jjrubioposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Amy.....doesn't it just irritate when you see people degrading each other in the name of GOD?? talk about UN-Christ like....
  
  I am glad to be on here tonight.
  
  what's up?
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
Same 'ol... denying my need for sleep, because of CrackPages. You?
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Abhishek87posted 16 years ago
Wow, I wonder if there has been a hubmob on this. Now that would be really popular and .......
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
Freaky religious cult hubbers, or crackpages and sleep? lol!
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  jjrubioposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ha! you are too much...I know I can't sleep either.
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
Oh, I can fall into a ten hour coma before I get my head to the pillow...I just don't wanna!
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  jjrubioposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I wish I could... I will be trying to "hit the hay" in a few. Gonna take a Unisom....Have good night girl!
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Amy Gposted 16 years ago
K, I'm succumbing to the down comforter... really....I'm going ...
Nite.
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sheenarobinsposted 16 years ago
Controversy, controversy. I am a born again Christian and far from being perfect. However, I chose to stay out of this kind of topics. I believe that spreading the word is a one on one thing. You just can't jump on people because some are not ready to receive this kind of message. You have to know them and at least have an idea on who they are, what they're going thru. etc. Some people have a different approach to their faith. And we should all respect that.
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Respect is a really good approach to this. I actually feel violated when someone assumes "I am ready to receive the message." And then someone says "I need saving" when I reject the invitation to receive the message. I never asked for the message, I never asked to be saved, because I don't need the message and I don't need to be saved. Best not jump on anyone unless they want to be jumped on.
  
  I am so pleased a Born Again Christian like yourself respects that.
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
SiddSingh

"I am a pagan, idol-worshiping Hindu. I worship god in 33 million manifestations, animate and inanimate. Sometimes I worship Fire, sometimes I worship Air, sometimes I worship Water and most of the times I worship nothing. ANY CHANCE I WILL BE GOING TO HEAVEN ???"

My hub addresses this question to a degree

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-case-for-God-Part-1
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  Pestposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  so? I see that you consider yourself an expert in the field.
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  SiddSinghposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that means I am going to hell! Well, I,m sort of relieved to know that finally.
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  WOW!! I guess I have wonderful company in hell then
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'll be there CW, we can redecorate in need.
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  SiddSinghposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I welcome the company, I am not sure about "wonderful" though! You see, all things wonderful are reserved for Heaven!
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I stick through thick and thin. And where ever my friends are that place is "heaven" for me. Good night, hubby had some office work and now he is done.
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  SiddSinghposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Good Night!
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  Cris Aposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Sidd
  Just checking in if there's more "fighting" here! LOL But I should've known. You're one cool cucumber and besides you were exchanging posts with countrywomen, so there could be no fighting, for a change! Btw, heard there was food here...hmmm...
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  SiddSinghposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Cris,
  Come on, join the party!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I can't be here long cause I have to go soon, but I'm interested to know your take on God. You said you worship Him in 1 billion different manifestations. You're bound to get it right eventually and you certainly get an A for effort! Just kidding! But seriously though, I'm interested to hear your take on these issues. I've been on the witness stand long enough, it's your turn now. You know what my thoughts are, may I cross-examine you now?
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
BDazzler/Sufidreamer/Mark Knowles

"I understand some Baptists are going to let some of the Catholics in, so we'll be fine."

In regards to the different denominations within the Christian faith, this hub will address that for you.

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-First-Principles
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure they will reeeaaaaaallllly appreciate it.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Does it mention Cuban cigars?
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Unfortunately not. Sorry. Maybe Mark can help you out on that one.
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
As far as the drinking and smoking in Heaven, that was funny. I got a kick out of that one. Although there are Christians who say drinking and smoking is a sin, no where in the bible does it say any of these things are a sin and would jeopardize your chances of the hope for eternal life.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  what's a sin? if those things aren't? I thought your body was supposed to be some temple or something?
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  If mine is a temple, it is in a worse state than the Acropolis. Have to keep sticking bits back on with duct-tape.
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  mine is a junk yard.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  The bible does refer to our bodies as being a temple. I use to be an Apostolic and to them wearing short sleeves is a sin, having facial hair is a sin, I mean it was so extreme I almost felt like even going to the bathroom was a sin. And you are right about it being wrong to defile your temple. The question becomes, "What defiles the temple?"
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  goldentoadposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  not marijuana, that's a natural herb provided by the good lord himself and it seems like you smoked some, you're a bit more relaxed
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I just been in the Word all day. In regards to what you're saying about marijuana, I'm really going out on a limb here, and this may come back to haunt me later, but it's the truth. No where does the bible say that smoking marijuana is a sin. Now I'm not condoning it, I'm just calling it like it is. Now you might have some extremists who condemn Christians for smoking marijuana. I'd rather have a Christian brother or sister smoke marijuana then go jump off a cliff or go shoot somebody. And if they call smoking marijuana a sin, then they need to be consistent and call cigarette smoking a sin as well. Just because THEY don't like it they try to condemn everybody else for doing it.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I can roll with that - whether the Bible is taken as the word of God or not, it contains good sense, valuable in the days before mass transportation and communication. Fasting, cutting down on meat occasionally is all good nutritional advice. Jewish kosher was useful a couple of thousand years ago - most of the banned foods were rife with parasites!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of Jewish customs are very beneficial. The Torah says that a man child is to be circumcised no later than the 8th day, and doctors now follow that practice as well.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  As many may know that abstaining from pork is also beneficial. For it has parasites that go to the brain.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That is if you don't cook it properly. Most of the things that were not to be eaten in the Biblical times were done so because they did have parasites etc....but modern times we can eat because we have better ways of preventing these parasites from getting the best of us. Most of the things they learned about foods and what to eat and what was not safe was by trial and error.
  The Word of God is written by man in the mind set and social customs of that day that he wrote the words.........or else these things would still be done the old ways and medical marvels would never have come to us today. We don't know what things will come even after us. I think the Bible is slowly being outdated in that respect.
  The only thing that really sticks is how we treat each other.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  That's why you need to understand the levels of understanding in God's Word. Does what you said only apply to the bible and not the other books of antiquity? Here is a verse for you to interpret; "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil things." MATTHEW 12:35
  Give me the "SOD" interpretation of this text.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What the heck is SOD? Now read the who paragraph and see what it is saying and whom it is talking too. That be the argument of everything I say around here--one it is taken out of context with the rest of the paragraph and the second I get told it is talking aobut some other peoples. and then becomes a history lesson. Now yoy see the confusion of that book and the many different interpretations thereof.
  
  Loving each other as ourselves goes across all religions and belief structures. Hate is propgated when one of them puts themselves on their own pedestal and claims that they are the only ones with the answers and that God is only for them. God never said that and he never expects that either. The Jews were in constant battle with the Romans, who only wanted the whole world to rule. Now you take the jewish customs and they are different then the other christian customs, yet christianity still wants the whle world--ROME against everyone else. Jews don't like christians and yet christians are calling only some of their traditions their own............A house divided will not stand. Chritianity is falling and failing because it cannot come to the same laws of life--love one another. When did God or Jesus decide that one people is better than another or who had more information then the other and ultimately when one person is the only way to God's love...Man....not God because God is everything and every living thing. Evil things are not really evil because if there is something to be learned from it then it is good for the people involved. The Ripple Effect. Everyone and Everything is the Truth. Jesus said to forgive them for they know not what they do--everyone....he didn't say one certain people or a certain person and he meant everyone.
  I wasn't heard when I said that the Bible itself says that all the things that Jesus said and did were not in the Bible and that Jesus said we shouldn't use the Book at all. It sounds like people are choosing certain things over others because they don't understand. Lack of Understanding leads to division and hatred and fear. If you understand where and how another comes to their own conclusions you may learn something and then the fear is vanished. Each person is on their own path and learning their own lessons with the help of God. All persons are in agreement before they are born into this life as to what they wil share with others and how and what each will learn from the outcome. It is all growth.
  So you being here may e helping someone or al of them and you too as to furthering your or our growth and that of each other.
  Ok I have to go now, but will be back whenever I can.......Love You and all here, spread that and not fear!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  A simple, "I don't know would've been fine." Spreading the love? Yes, of course, that's a given. Talking about drinking and eating, and friendship I presume is what you are referring to when you say spreading the love; and that is all fine and dandy. For I have had my part in all that as well, and I admit it is fun. But I am also here to share my knowledge, which of course is why I thought everyone else came here. I hope to give others a clear perspective on the Christian faith. How would you like it if you were from IDAHO and you heard people saying things about IDAHO, as a statement of fact, even though it was really just an opinion, and you knew this was only an opinion and not a fact? Would you just sit there and say nothing? I think not.
  And even as the people talking about my Christian faith spoke their mind, I will speak the truth about the Christian faith for clarity. People want answers, well now they got em. If I were not a Christian and I wanted to know about Christianity or if I were a seeker, I surely would have lots of questions. I want you to notice something if you will. The response you gave to my question contained many views about my faith that I disagree with. I would rather DIE, than just sit here and let people make claims about my faith that are FALSE, much less valid. Do I have to agree with you and say nothing and just rant about, fries and milkshakes and fried chicken just to prove that I walk in love towards you? Haven't you ever noticed that everyone feels qualified to give commentary on the Christian faith who aren't Christians, and NO ONE ever says anything about it? But notice how the only people who give commentary on Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Islam are actually members of those respective faiths. I am sick and tired of everyone thinking they have a pass to speak on the Christian faith. So when some amateur has the audacity to make some false unwarranted claim about my faith, you can bet your life on it I will CORRECT them. Now if they turn their statement into a question, that's a different story, I respect that. I'm not a HINDU. Do you see me telling people how to become a Hindu? NO. So if you are not a Christian don't speak on it. Ask? Yes. Speak? Absolutely not! If you continue it, I will grind every false word you speak down to powder.
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  Make Moneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  TheLoanConsultant don't just say you are going to do it, do it. Lady Guinevere has been making false claims about Christianity ever since she started to come here. At one time she was trying to claim that she was a Christian minister but with most of her posts it's hard to even determine whether she is trying to be a Christian or not. She's mostly ignored by Christians. But all of her false claims about Christianity have to be corrected as soon as she posts them, especially this post of her's. They need to be corrected just in case someone that is starting to seek God reads one of her posts and gets side tracked from the start. So I'll attempt to correct her mistakes now. TLC feel free to add to it.
  
  1. Referring to the Bible LG says "the confusion of that book".
  
  It's not confusing for most. LG you might want to say a prayer asking for discernment before you read the Bible. I believe all your other non-christian commentaries you read about the Bible and Christianity are causing your confusion.
  
  2. LG says "The Jews were in constant battle with the Romans, who only wanted the whole world to rule. Now you take the jewish customs and they are different then the other christian customs, yet christianity still wants the whle world--ROME against everyone else."
  
  LG you seem to think that the Roman Catholic Church is the same as the long defunct Roman Empire. It's not. The last emperor of Rome, Romulus Augustulus died in 476 AD. The Roman Empire wanted to rule the world. The Roman Catholic Church's goal and Christianity in general is to preach the kingdom of God to all nations (Matthew 24:14). Big difference. Jesus will return when that is accomplished.
  
  3. LG says "Jews don't like christians and yet christians are calling only some of their traditions their own............A house divided will not stand."
  
  LG Jesus says it will be everlasting (John 6:53-55). This message is from God, Jesus is God. They will have to join us.
  
  4. LG says "Chritianity is falling and failing because it cannot come to the same laws of life--love one another."
  
  LG that is one of the main Christian messages, to love one another (Mark 12:31).
  
  5. LG says "When did God or Jesus decide that one people is better than another or who had more information then the other and ultimately when one person is the only way to God's love...Man....not God because God is everything and every living thing."
  
  LG Matthew 26:28 says His blood will be shed for "many" not for all. It's up to you and everyone whether you or they want to be part of the "many".
  
  6. LG says "Evil things are not really evil because if there is something to be learned from it then it is good for the people involved."
  
  Evil is evil and should be avoided. Evil is not good, evil is the opposite to good. The only thing we learn from evil is to avoid it. LG I know you do not believe there is hell or satan but that is because you read non-christian commentaries of the Bible and Christianity, instead of just reading the Bible. Hell and satan are all through the Bible, Old and New Testaments.
  
  7. LG says "Everyone and Everything is the Truth."
  
  LG how can you possibly agree that all religions are the truth, especially ones that do not believe in Jesus? You can't if you want to call yourself a Christian. It's a contradiction.
  
  8. LG says "Jesus said to forgive them for they know not what they do--everyone....he didn't say one certain people or a certain person and he meant everyone."
  
  Agreed. In fact that is what we say when we pray the Our Father, "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." But that is not saying that everyone and everything is the truth. I forgive you. I hope you forgive me for correcting you.
  
  9. LG says "I wasn't heard when I said that the Bible itself says that all the things that Jesus said and did were not in the Bible and that Jesus said we shouldn't use the Book at all."
  
  You were heard but ignored LG. Enough. Of course all things that Jesus said and did are not in the Bible, the world "would not be able to contain the books" if they were. Just because you read this it doesn't mean to go looking into non-christian commentaries of the Bible and Christianity to find what else Jesus said and did. You'll no doubt find some lies. The verse you are talking about is John 21:25. But again that doesn't mean to go looking in non-christian commentaries.
  
  And in no way, shape or form did Jesus say "we shouldn't use the Book at all." This is a blatant lie. In fact 2 Thessalonians 2:14 says "stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle." Most of the books in the New Testament are epistles.
  
  10. LG says "It sounds like people are choosing certain things over others because they don't understand. Lack of Understanding leads to division and hatred and fear."
  
  I agree again. Understanding of God comes from tradition and the Bible, not from non-christian commentaries.
  
  Sorry LG this was definitely one post that needed to be corrected. TLC or anyone, feel free to add to it.
  
  Mike
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  Lady Guinevereposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Look into your heart for your answers. You can call me whatever you want but I know that I love God and that God loves me no matter what I say or do or even what religion or no religion. You will never be able to shake that---NEVER! So call me names and call me all kinds of things --it will only come back on you eventually.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Wow - you really upset make money.
  
  What did you do? Suggest abortion might be OK? Attack him by disagreeing with his medieval opinions? Suggest that the pope is murdering Africans by lying to them about condoms? What?
  
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Some sleep might actually help
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Time spent sleeping is time wasted - It could be spent drinking Ouzo.
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  Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  LOL have fun then
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Must sleep soon, though - 3am and still working
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What is that drink you keep referring to, it sounds good?
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  Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  You call it working?!
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Just finishing off the formatting now - wrote 5000 words and a Hub today, so pretty productive.
  
  Ouzo helps the process - the joys of self-employment. Drink whilst you work!
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  Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I actually thought you were hanging out here
  Multitasking - never could get a hold of it...
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Is the commercial Ouzo different to this Sufi? They can sell it in bulk in Australia, would you like some shipped over Misha?
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I suspect that you get the same stuff over there - the large Aussie-Greek population could not survive without their Ouzo! The best comes from Lesvos.
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Too right! I like the smell and used to drink it with coke. Straight it would blow my head off so I stay away. But cheers anyway.
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  lol - make sure that you never ask for coke in your Ouzo in Greece - big faux pas! Water is the way - two fingers Ouzo in a tall glass, 3 or 4 fingers of water and then some ice. Heaven!
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  Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I am more of a red wine guy now Jewels, but I used to drink some of that under the name Raki when I traveled to Turkey, and going back even more I remember its Bulgarian version in USSR, can't recall the name though, it was different...
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  What are you writing?
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  Sufidreamerposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I am writing articles for a science site about to 'How to write a Research Paper.' A book, too, although that is a slow process!
  
  Misha - Sorta hanging out. 12 hours is a long time to write, so it is nice to have the odd chat with you guys!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, writing a book is a slow process. Especially when new information on the topic you're writing about comes to surface. I've been working on a book about consciousness. I'm probably just going to have to do volumes, because I keep discovering things that can only be proved when someone applies it in their own life. It cannot be analyzed by the rules of science.
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  Jewelsposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhh, have you read Putting on the Mind of Christ? Has allot about levels of consciousness, was a good read.
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Does sound like a good one. Understanding the basic 7 levels of consciousness is key to developing the mind of Christ. Does it cover that as well? Interesting.....
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Sufidreamerposted 16 years ago
Loan Consultant - Yup. In a hot Mediterranean climate, Pork was not a good choice.

Anyway - really must go to bed. Enjoyed the conversation, folks. Have a great evening

LC - If you do find some Ouzo, give it a try, but seek instruction first
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sleep well. I'll be back in a few days. I'll keep you posted on that Ouzo too
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TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years ago
Countrywoman: I am leaving soon, but before I go, a few quick things.

You are Hindu correct? Have you never met a Hindu person who had character flaws? Assuming you have, may I also assume that his belief about God was not in question as a result of the person's character flaws being noticed? Is that everyone's reason for not reading the bible or believing in Jesus? Or to take it a step further for hating on Christians and heckling them trying to provoke them to anger so that if they do happen to loose their temper, now you have your excuse for not receiving their testimony? And I do agree that sometimes their manner of approach could be somewhat annoying. That's no reason to brush aside the truth value of their propositions. If a storm were headed your way that was expected to destroy all in it's path and someone were to warn you, how absurd would it be to not give heed to their warning because of their character flaws. I'm assuming that you have the intellectual capacity to respond. Therefore it is unnecessary for a million other people to answer for you. This statement is not for you, but for them. You may notice how I've been answering for myself in this forum without any help. Let everyone answer for theirself, to prevent confusion and mis-communication on the thread. I'll be back in a few days. I'm interested to know your thoughts on this issue.
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  countrywomenposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Sir- I have met a lot of wonderful Christians hence I have no hesitancy in saying that there are as many wonderful human beings among Christians as there are in any other group of individuals. I have no desire to engage in lengthy discussions on this topic when you already have made so many assumptions about me. May God bless you and have a great day.
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sheawat_pereaposted 16 years ago
CHRISTIANS WILL GO TO HEAVEN! MABUHAY COUPLES FOR CHRIST!!
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  TheLoanConsultantposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Have you heard the song, "Heaven, must be like this" by D'Angelo? It really has a good rhythm to it.
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Should be something in the air - people get upset left and right
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I noticed. - Lent you think? Annoyed at having to give up chocolate for a month?
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  It has to be everyone is so moody these last couple of days,maybe it is the weather, or the moon. I am not understanding it either.
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Lady Guinevereposted 16 years ago
According to Canon Law (the official laws governing the Roman Catholic Church), Catholics are required to submit their minds and wills to any declaration concerning faith or morals that is made by the Pope, or by a Catholic Church council. They are also required to avoid anything that disagrees with such declarations. Furthermore, they can be coerced if they don't comply. (You can read these laws online. If you want to buy the book, the Notes give information.) [Note 3]

The Catholic Church teaches that only the Magisterium of the Church (the Pope and the bishops in communion with him) has the right to interpret Scripture. People like us are not allowed to interpret Scripture for ourselves. We are supposed to check it out with Church authorities

Furthermore it goes to say:

Catholicism teaches that Catholics are supposed to "receive with docility" any directives given to them by Catholic Church authorities.

This sounds like young children, who accept without question whatever their parents tell them. In contrast, the Bible commends the people of Berea, because they "searched the Scriptures daily" in order to "see whether these things were so." (Acts 17:10-11) God wants His people to check things out for themselves, using Scripture as their yardstick.

In 1854, Pope Pius IX declared the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary. The Pope said that if people "dare" to even think anything contrary to this dogma, then that disagreement will shipwreck their faith, cut them off from the Catholic Church, and make them become "condemned." He said that people who outwardly express disagreement could be punished for it

....and you can read the rest of the story :
http://hubpages.com/hub/What-Are-Cults
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Lady Guinevereposted 16 years ago
Addresses of websites that have the "Code of Canon Law "are below. Some of them take a while to load after you click on the links. If you can't get through to the web page, then go to the home page and try to find it from there. [To find the home page, delete everything that comes after "com," "org," or "net."]

http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG0017.htm

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/canon/

http://www.deacons.net/Canon_Law/Frame_Index.htm
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
LOL I had to look it up

May be of course - I doubt chocolate applies to Mike though
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I don't even want to know what Mike has to give up
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Well, at least three of us are not
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I just yelled and it felt so much better
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  
  Glad you got that out of your system. Always better after a good shout.
  
  Me, I am just continuing to find everything funnier and funnier. I know why everyone is on edge. A change is coming - and no one likes change. Especially when they do not know what the change is going to be.
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I second that emotion!!!! I never yell my goodness when you start reading the thread , it is nothing but arguing, drives me nuts and I had to explode. I love them all but enough is enough!!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Never going to change. Everyone is certain that they understand something that cannot be defined, categorized or - in my case, even exists.
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AEvansposted 16 years ago
STOPPPPP!!!!!! Wheeewww that felt better, for goodness sake's believer's WWJD? You are arguing like brothers and sisters , for what????" Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself", "God created all of us in his own image", this has been going on for centuries, arguing back and forth, back and forth we as Christians need to act it and I am one that has back slid , so how can we talk and preach our Lord and Saviour when we have our own dirty laundry to wash? Wash it, put fabric softener in it , dry it and then wear it!!!! Stop arguing!!!!! It is my redhair that has set me off....
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Mishaposted 16 years ago
Not that I like this change either. To tell you the truth I feel like I wasted last several years on mastering the trade of making money on the Internet - when I strongly suspect the change will kill online payment processing, and my business with it...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Me too.
  
  Personally, I think it will be another 18-24 months before that point is reached, so make the most of it....
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  AEvansposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  I am glad that both of you shared that insight with me, I will keep my eyes open on that one.
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  Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Somehow I have a feeling it will happen much faster than that. We'll see...
  
  Off for dinner
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  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe I should have said "I am praying to god that it will take that long " Which is about how much time i need..............
  
  Bon apetit
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AngieMooeStarksposted 15 years ago
I'm a devout Catholic who converted to Catholism at age eighteen during my last year of high school, and Lady Guineve is taking that verse where Jesus said tthat we were'nt to read just any book; THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE BIBLE beause IT is NOT only the entire salvation history of both Jews and Christians, BUT for ALL CXHristians, it IS our owners manual about how to follow Jesus and TO LOVE others and LIVE our lives completely sold out to HIM and the Father and the Holy Spirit; I'm also a member of the Charismatic Renewal In The Catholic Church, so yes I speak in tongues, fall out in the Holy Spirit, encourage Catholics who have NEVER attended their parish prayer groups or the large prayer meetings held at their diocesan Charismatic Renewal Center, and IF they feel led after going to meetings there, either attending a predominately Charismatic parish which they may find by calling their diocesan chancery offices which has a list of all current liasons to the Bishop of tthe Catholic Charismatic Renewal in their diocese, and the liasons can give them initial contact info for each Charismatic Renewal Parish in the Diocese as well as their own BECAUSE they have a LIST of ALL CCR predominate parishes IN THE ENTIRE DOCESE !
Jesus meant that "NOT READinG ANY BOOK" abut spirituality because HE KNEW then as HE does NOW, that in these latter days, many deep Christians and sadly many CATHOLIC parishes would and have been infiltrated by pastors wo've promopted such New Age crap as the Enneagram Workshps and testing RIGHT AT PARISHES here in the Diocese of Tucson and of Phoenix;my undergrad degree is a double major in psych and religous studies !
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  Pestposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking in tongues again, i see...double major in English fell through?
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  goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  get outta here man! this place is crazy enough
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AEvansposted 15 years ago
Loan Consultant,
I am addressing you as this has weighed heavy on my heart. I went to this forum looking to see what was happening and I thought we honestly had a discussion on another forum about what a Christian was supposed to act like? I am surprised how you came in and started to act un-christ like when you were discussing issues with people who were curious about religion, had questions and valued their own opinions. I realize that profanity should not have been used, however have we all not fallen short of the glory of God? jjRubio was a very kind and warm human being with multiple questions. GoldenToad has his own opinions as well and does that make either one of them a lesser believer of God? I realize it is hard to walk like Jesus, but saying we are a Christian and then lashing out at others , Jesus certainly would not do that. Just like all of us you also have a angry spirit and if you were pure of heart and completely glorified by God you would have went into each discussion or question much differently , would you have not? The lesson here is when we say we are christians, we cannot and should not bash others for their thoughts as Jesus would not have had as many followers as he did, if he did just what so many of us christians do. We all need to read the word more and get right , or get left behind. The people that you can after did not deserve to be attacked by someone who supposed to believe wholeheartedly in God. I hope to recieve a positive response and apologies should honestly be given as I always say and stand by this "WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?"
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