by not understanding a God concept, do we force fit random exhistance?

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  1. dutchman1951 profile image59
    dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

    How is quantum physics random?

    I posted a question once, not on the forums, asking if anything is random and people answered with quantum mechanics/physics. without really knowing much about the subject.

    To this day,I still feel as if humans are simply not yet capable of understanding the causes/factors that determine quantum physics.

    If this is true and after working at the Oak Ridge Laboratories these past few years after I came off of world travel, I do feel it is so.

    Watching researchers at work, I am curious why scientist's refuse to say that they just dont fully understand quantum physics, instead of saying that they understand everything and therefore  since they can't determine the exhistance of something, it must be random existance, and nothing more.

    Does science have the last word on the subject because they truly can not explain universal exhistance?

    Is God just random exhistance?

    1. shifutim profile image55
      shifutimposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Everything that exists is a manifestation of the primordial conscious intention TO BE.  Since the limited human rational mind can't directly perceive the totality of the ultimate ground of existence in its (the totality's) quantum (unbounded by time or space) state, questions about the nature of God can't be adequately answered by narrowly focused and narrowly defined concepts.  Instead, the best way to explore this type of subject matter is to try to discover whether you can access a portal within yourself that leads to complete attunement with the quantum source of all that is. 

      Each of us is endowed with rational awareness and intuitive awareness.  The rational awareness faculty helps us to navigate the three-dimensional field of matter, while the intuitive awareness helps us to tap into the quantum field of consciousness, within which resides the total picture of infinite possibilities. 

      If you truly want expand your awareness of humanity's (and your) purpose on this Earth, investigate the wide variety of practices designed to help people to open their chakras (wheels of energy transfer that feed the body): particularly the life-governing heart chakra.  Finally, the quality of the question you ask determines the quality of the answer you get, and the lens through which you frame your query determines the context in which you receive your answer!  You stand to benefit tremendously from letting the information in my comments soak in deeply.

      Peace and Blessings to all of you who've taken on the daunting challenge of pondering this subject,
      Dr. Tim

  2. TMMason profile image67
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    I stated the other day in the forums that Quantum Random Theory dictates there is a God who would have come into creation at some pont in time, and since he is omnipotent and omniscient, then his creation time would be irrelavent, and that he would be present in all times and ages and places because by his nature he could minipulate and move through time. I would have liked your input on that dutch.

    1. dutchman1951 profile image59
      dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      If things are indeed occuring randomly, then no. The Created can not create its Creator. So Random occurance is truly without a God. 

      Another look would be to consider that if God was created randomly as then would he even be able to crate a random creation? for if thats possible, thatt implies he could control his own creation sense he could control random occurance? not possible, as during his creation, he did not fully exhist could not be cognitive of anything at that point. so, random is making some sense here.

      I am begining to think that by pure science knowledge, understanding God is not possible at all, and thus Scientists, real ones I mean, explain it away as random occurance, and avoid the possibility of it.

      its like the chicken and egg thing, kind of.

  3. TMMason profile image67
    TMMasonposted 7 years ago

    And now they think the universe is finite... how does that affect random theory, Dutch? No infinite universe, no infinite possibilities.

    1. dutchman1951 profile image59
      dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      i think it has always been finite TM

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        It has a beginning and an end. It just hasn't reach the end of the explosion cycle as of yet. wink

  4. Cagsil profile image80
    Cagsilposted 7 years ago

    The god concept is a theologian gimmick, not worth the effort. Plain and simple.

    It is the people who continue to try and fit science to fit the theory, instead of science figuring it out.

    Since the creation of the Universe was explained in your other thread, it simply shows that a god never needed to exist for it to happen.

    Life, all Life is part of the natural process of the evolution of the Universe. No other explanation needed.

    1. Jerami profile image68
      Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And I didn't need that bull dog to come up on my portch either ......   But it did.  A lotta stuff we don't need is.

        It would be great if I could just not believe the things that I don't want         away.

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Do you have a point or are you just posting to get yourself seen?

        Your post makes no sense and it's NOT even on the topic. If you have nothing to add, then don't post. It's against the rules to begin with.

        1. Jerami profile image68
          Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          It was on topic and makes perfect sense to me.


             Sorry you missed it.

          1. Cagsil profile image80
            Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Really? I wonder if a moderator would understand that. Let's see?

          2. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I understood what you were saying Jerami.

        2. dutchman1951 profile image59
          dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Jerami, blind belief, no questions?
          God said it, it happened?  Closed Book?

          your words, just believe things I dont want to?

      2. dutchman1951 profile image59
        dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        creation has not been explained yet Caig, any thread or formula anywhere. answers still evolving, not completed yet

    2. TMMason profile image67
      TMMasonposted 7 years ago

      It is cags... he is statng that about Dutch's answer to me. I think...cause it does line up with that.

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hey TMMason, I wasn't addressing you or dutch. I was addressing Jerami. He enjoys throwing out random statements, that usually have nothing to do with threads, but makes a point. However, he isn't always on topic, which is nothing new.

        1. Jerami profile image68
          Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Everyone is right ....   i was thinking about what everyone said.
          Also Cagsil     ,, he said said that God wasn't needed.. and I said the buldog wasn't needed either,

          1. dutchman1951 profile image59
            dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I said if ....IF....it was random, then God was not needed, but is it?

            The Universe is finite, predictable, calculatable, if it was not we coud not predict abd pull of space flight, or propulsion in a space vacume?

            is it because they can not explain what they are seeing, that they jump on the random occurance merry-go round? 

            do not add to it. please.

            1. Jerami profile image68
              Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              It will always be a merry go round no matter what.   

                I can be on top of a hill and give a tire a tiny little push and from then on it doesn't need me to lead the way, its journey is random all the wy until it stops.,
                Though I set it in motion.

        2. TMMason profile image67
          TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Doesn't matter who you were addessing... such is the nature of a forum Cags. lollll I have seen you jump into many a conversation. So I will comment on whatever persons remarks I want to.

          1. Cagsil profile image80
            Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Nothing was meant by you jumping in anywhere. I was just stating that I wasn't addressing either of you, so you would know. That's all. wink

            1. TMMason profile image67
              TMMasonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Okay man... I thought you were mad at me for it. Sorry bro.

              1. Cagsil profile image80
                Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                No problem TMMason. wink

        3. Jerami profile image68
          Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          OK ?  and    sometimes you don't catch the low pitches

          1. Cagsil profile image80
            Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Jerami, half the things you say are either irrelevant or not on topic. Sometimes I wonder why you even bother getting into the conversation in the first place. roll

    3. earnestshub profile image88
      earnestshubposted 7 years ago
      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Back to that again huh Earnest? lol lol

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I blew it Cags!

          I thought in a moment of madness that a religionist may have enough common sense left after the shutdown of brain activity caused by  indoctrination to actually watch a short video and make relevant comments on the discussions within. Silly me! lol lol lol

          1. Cagsil profile image80
            Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            And, the only retort would be that god dunnit. lol

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              .... usually followed by half the bible to support it.
              Great logic!

              "God wrote the bible and that proves there is a god because the bible said so!"

              Gotta love it! lol lol lol

      2. dutchman1951 profile image59
        dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        the stars did it....

        about as silly as God did it in truth

        sense the gases do not contain the esential elements of chemistry to start life/ Star dust? about as much sense as God making adam from dirt!

        1. earnestshub profile image88
          earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry Dutch, that was covered in an earlier open forum of his peers. I will find it if I can, it was part of a series of award winning speeches he gave that are recorded on video and available on BBC TV.
          Anyone who wants to remain ignorant can.
          Thank you for looking at the video, and I appreciate that it is fantasmagorical. So is the science that led to the theories that support it.
          There are a handful of scientists as there were in Einstein's time, who have led us to the understanding we have so far, to deny that understanding is to deny life itself.
          Einstein's theories are not easily understood by laymen, and nor are the sciences that are within something as simple as a laptop.

          I say read it as I have read religion then offer an opinion.

          Krauss offers the easiest basic understanding and the awards he has won include those for being able to explain it in a simple way for laypeople to enjoy and wonder at.

          1. dutchman1951 profile image59
            dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            it has to exhist, an snswer Earnest, I wish to find it, but alas, in truth will not I am positive. I will try though, I am curious as to why and how?

          2. dutchman1951 profile image59
            dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I am looking into Krauss, will read.  I look up the books not the laptop junk.
            I try to.

            1. earnestshub profile image88
              earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              The BBC series is brilliantly done and easy to watch with an active participating audience of his peers, debates and questions asked and answered.

              1. dutchman1951 profile image59
                dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                am looking at the BBC listings now to find all of this.

                Please post your long post back, I think I errased it, while removing that post I put up, it was not fair statements, sorry

                I do not honestly believe in the myth, to many holes in it. I hope you know this. Anyway post your post again, may edit stuff is acting wild in here tonight, did not mean to erase it, was trying to retract mine instead.

                1. earnestshub profile image88
                  earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't notice any other deleted posts dutch, but I appreciate you're willingness to listen to one of our finest scientists explain his theories and substantiate them.

                  1. dutchman1951 profile image59
                    dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    more than willing, have interest looking for truth

                    1. earnestshub profile image88
                      earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                      Me too, and it changes as theories stack up across disciplines.
                      I am used to having to update what I know.

                      I used to rebuild engines based on what I knew, now I decide which way to proceed based on what some dumb assed on-board computer tells me.

                      I still need to read between the lines, as often the computer is lying because it was lied to by a sensor! smile

                      The old Chinese whisper even applies to cars these days! lol

    4. dutchman1951 profile image59
      dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

      if it is not random,  and there is a cause and an affect, and it is not a God, or traveling outward dust!

      than this will be a lot more work than we can concieve me thinks, but it is hard for me to concieve it correct  as Bibles and Old science say it is.

    5. dutchman1951 profile image59
      dutchman1951posted 7 years ago

      my edit functions are not working well in here. this is nuts.

      1. Cagsil profile image80
        Cagsilposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I had HP address the edit function earlier today. Is it acting up again? I don't know, I haven't had to edit any posts in a while.

        1. dutchman1951 profile image59
          dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I think I accidently erassed two posts instead of mine!   oh well

    6. TMMason profile image67
      TMMasonposted 7 years ago

      I gave up onthe edit button a long time ago... I have had nothing but problems with it for two days.

      1. dutchman1951 profile image59
        dutchman1951posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        me also

     
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