What did God do unto him that he would be idenified from others?
maybe he microchipped him - that's what all the doomsayers predict will happen
You could be close to spot on.
Sounds a bit kinda like a fore runner.
please tell me you're not all still bleating that BS - barcode as the mark of the beast 666
No, I don't bleat the barcode.
It will come soon enough, but I doubt it will be any B&W lines (visible or invisible) that will be IT.
You'd have to be living in a cave to not see that it's a logical "next step" to solve many economic (and other) woes of our time.
I mean, how much CASH do the majority of people use these days?
That stat alone should be evidence enough clue as tp where it's all leading.
barcode, microchip - whatever - that's still the conspiracy theory that christians have about being the 'mark of the beast?'
Please wake up, look around, and you will see signs everywhere!
Just because the Christians are sending out a warning, does not negate the actuality.
Do some (secular) research for yourself, and then come back.
signs - you mean all this hype that there are 'more earthquakes' etc?
No. I was not speaking in generalities.
By signs, I was referring mostly to economic/financial signs.
You tell me, you actually believe cash will NOT be removed at some point in the near future.
Just think of all the benefits without it.
as if the bible is that specific - it's just been vague speculation for centuries what the bible is supposed to mean
If it says that "one" will not be able to buy or sell WITHOUT the mark, sounds kinda specific to me.
and what will you do to refuse the mark? Commit suicide? Starve yourself?
Gods people never starve. Money is not an ingredient for their survival. Jesus said, i have meat to eat ye know not of... i eat less since my salvation and i have gained weight... blessed food is best
For many it will be a wake up call.
For others an indication that the bible is not vague.
For some, the end of the world.
Bible is so interesting.
many religious groups interpreted the mark of Cain to be black skin ie that dark skin was a curse - what superstitious nonsense
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain
Their blood runs red, no matter the colour of the skin.
I HATE racial (or any other for that matter) prejudice.
well, the bible has been used to support racism in this very manner
Sure it has. But who did the justifying?
Men!
Just look at earnests posts. He can support his position 100% from the Bible.
I can mine, to support mine.
So what. You have no real point to argue, except, you also point to the human condition. Man does what he wants. He can justify it by whatever means works for him. For the moslim terrorists, it happens to be the koran.
They did indeed hold the pen. Wouldn't it be strange if a floating pen wrote the bible... people would not believe it more if it had.
God works through people, if they let Him. That's just a christian fact.
For those who have no faith in the bible that is just a christian shame.
with such 'treasures' such as smashing infants heads against rocks
oh my... don't forget the impaling on poles.. i hear that's very painful.
God tells it like it is.
How about a new testament saint who was sawn in half.... ouch eh.
Like i have always said.. barbaric times. We can only imagine. Can you imagine if anyone tried to throw people to lions today as a spectators sport.
Civility is not something mankind always had, it has evolved to its present shape.
I am reminded of the north american indians who would scalp the whites. I am sure the Indians did not want to scalp but scalping may have served another purpose - as a severe warning.
And yet, aka-dj, you let your own prejudices blind you. How thoroughly egotistical.
You must be very proud of yourself to be able point out others egotistical nature....
I agree Baileybear. That is nonsense. That is one of many wrong interpretations of biblical passages.
But it takes great humility to find the real meaning. Have you lost that humility?
The black skin of cain is possible. Not because of racism but because the people of the garden were probably all the same color. There were no black skinned people in the garden, lets say, in this instance, but neither were yellow or red.
I have wondered about that and the book is still open to any firm answer.
The study of marks in the bible is interesting and sometimes a mark is not a tangible, outward appearance of something but rather a distinguishment figuratively mentioned.
what colour do you think the people in the bible were?
i am not sure.
I noticed above it seemed as though i said there were not black or yellow or red. I meant just in the instance i am referring to in the post, for example.
I see no reason why the garden characters could not have been, red, or yellow or black.
strongs seems to suggest that H121 - adam = red in color. Adam therefore may have been red-dish
suffice it to say, Cain may have been a different color than the others.
the fundamental mormons believe Cain was black because he was cursed. They despise black people
Given the colorful visuals depicted of the earth at that time, a canopy above, blocking most of the harsh rays of sun, a mist coming up from the ground but no rainfall : a perfect sunny &70F with 40% humidity comes to mind -and that sounds perfect, a lot like San Francisco year round! Plus, given the region of Iraq (where three of the four freshwater rivers are located) I would go with tan or deep olive complexion.
Even today, with climatic changes, if you note the tones of people in such climates, their complexion tends to have a reddish-olive tone, quite close to medium tan. Ironically, in Tajikistan the complexion due to the sun and wind of the region makes their tone more reddish than olive.
James.
ps, the Mormons were Puritan outcasts, so it makes sense their anglo roots would lean in that direction.
apparently, pale skin/hair/eyes is a mutation resulting in less pigmentation.
A prominent writer on HP claims that Eve was white because ribs are white. I thought that was hilarious
I thought ribs were red-brown, sticky and -if cooked right- fall of the bone good. (oh, wait, are we talking bbq ribs or actual human bones) j/k.
Mutations? emm, no comment. lol.
The pale skin, blue eyed, anorexic depiction of [Jesus] is from the South Caucus / Macedon concepts, Alexander especially, passed on to the Romans and Greeks. Remember, Alexander was awed by the people of India and southern regions like Egypt, because he looked like the 'sun' compared to them, who had dark skin and eyes. During the Renaissance, anglo-roman influence came through iconic art (of which my mum was a huge fan & student) was whitewashed people, using an eggshell and chalk based paint to make them stand out against the 'red' of the 'devil'.
James.
ps, now am in the mood for ribs an slaw. thanks
Interesting comment. But there are many Jewish people who have red hair and blue eyes.
But listen the throne of David is in England. Is there lost tribe of Israel???
The Bible say God took Eva's part (DNA) from his side (Hebrew "tsela"). Not necessary removed the rib. Side versus rib!
There were only three other people on the planet at the time---Adam, Eve, and Abel. Why would God need an identity marker for Cain?
Unless there were more people in the garden that you suppose.
Does it make sense that God should design and create all this for one person, adam and then one woman eve.
The command for multiplication came after expulsion from the garden.
Actually it is not right: Multiplication was given in 1st chapter and man was expelled out in 3rd.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion...
Since the God of the bible is apparently not very smart, YES, this does make sense. I mean...He did create three DAYS before He even created the SUN. This God is a bumbling idiot!
OH! Now it all makes sense! NOT!!!
&Getitirte. Now we know who is an idiot. It is your word you offence God and all of us.
God created heavens and the earth long time ago before He recreated damaged earth. It was first flood - gen 2:2.
Then God restored messy earth.
You should be seeking your truths from the babel story.
It is interesting that Cain and offspring had similar spirit: hate, refusing blood of Messiah (Cain offered grass instead of lamb), weapon of mass destruction, murder, polygamy... and finally mark...
This is why indoctrination is important.
Obviously Cain taught that the world was a tough place, dog eat dog in fact and that in order to be successful you have to fight and cheat and steal - do whatever you have to....
Parents teach their children through action and words and non-actions what they believe in.
I was being funny.
Actually, I don't know what mark it was.
My guess is that it was
1 Obvious to anyone who saw it.
2 The word would have spread through, the then relatively small population, as to Who this man was, and What he was "guilty" of.
I think there was big crowd, that time, don't you think? First there was woman available to Cain to marry. Mark is not needed if only few people are on the earth. Bless you.
PS. Adam and Eve were fertile and had many children. The same with their children. Before flood there was about billion people by calculation.
actually there were more than only three people on the planet.
Or else how could Cain have found a wife?
I've told him several times to live up to his name &
"get it right!!"
Of course, I'll leave to you to explain how Adam and Eve were the first generation...Cain and Abel were the second generation...yet there were other people on the planet.
This is beyond absurd.
brothers & sisters must have interbred - the incest law didn't come about until a little while later
Maybe so. But that would mean that Cain and Abel must have been very old by this time...if all these generations were already here...but it states that Cain was not even married yet, because he found a wife in Nod. Where did these people in Nod come from? Were they descended from Adam and Eve, as well. And if so, wouldn't they know of Cain, since they were closely related to him? Why would he need a mark?
If there were others in the garden, of which adam was the governor, then when they were ousted from the garden some would have gone north, east, south.. since they had no internet or telephone, communication between these "tribes" would have been difficult.... therefore God marked Cain.
ancient tribes had plenty of ways of communicating other than the modern telephone - smoke signals, horns, whirling a cord above the head to make a loud noise
The only way I could accomplish that, in your warped worldview, would be to stop thinking, give into fear, and embrace childish, silly fables as truths!
Or to think between the lines and let God give revelation.
In other words, become a mindless blind follower, and give into fear, become delusional, and pretend that imaginary entities talk to me. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
For a minute, there, I thought you were asking me to become insane!
I think you show that quite well by yourself.
id rather you be a mindless blind follower and getsomethingsright for a change.
I'm sure some imaginary entity has talked to you
I see I'm not the only one encouraging him to "get things right".
Or to think between the lines and let God give revelation.
I thought I got that right?
Or pretend that I'm still a child, talking to an imaginary friend.
Nope. Think about it again. This time actually use your real intellect, not your irrational indoctrinated directive...and get it right.
The only problem is that your version of getting things right is completely ludicrous.
Wouldn't it be disturbing if I actually believed in imaginary entities as an adult.
Adam and Eve were the first generation...Cain and Abel were the second generation.
What other people are you talking about?
Please explain---with references please!
they were the first generation of a specific family tree,
Ya keep forgeting the problems concerning trnslations except for when it benefits your particular arguement as if you'r goina win a teddy bear or something for winning.
What makes you always think that your INTERPRETATION of the bible is the correct one?
I don't need your interpretations, and I don't know what was mis-translated, and neither do you.
Stop pretending that you know something that others don't know, please.
Getitrite, you make a good point, here. I would think that no one on this planet has the correct interpretation of the entire Bible, especially not you.
You and your skeptical cohorts act as if you know it all. Or is that merely ego-pumping? Hmm-m-m...
You've told us what you don't need. But what do you need? More ways to stroke your own ego -- to make yourself right and others with whom you disagree wrong? What a life! But I guess someone has to live it, huh? Good luck with that trick.
There's a lot more in the Bible than you will ever guess. But that's right, you don't need such things. So, why are you even here? Soaking up more ego with your buds? Very funny.
Sure, you may have run into a whole lot of Fundamentalists who couldn't hold a logical candle next to you. They take the Bible literally wrong, so why shouldn't you? What if someone presented you with a logical, thoughtful discussion of philosophy and religion? Could you even handle it? Or would the lure of ego be too strong?
Gosh, you religious people are funny. You think you know something no one else knows and then don't get that telling people that you know something special that they cannot grasp - and then accuse them of being egotistical because they came to their own conclusions about your majik book is guaranteed to cause a fight - and the exact ego stroking behavior they accuse others of.
Now present a logical argument instead of making personal attacks to defend your nonsensical beliefs.
Go on - I dare ya.
My dear Evolution Guy! What a lovely idea. No more personal attacks? You really promise? Or are you just sucker baiting?
I guess I could generalize, too, but it's so unintelligent. "You skeptical people" sounds so pretentious, but you're an individual, right? You have your own experiences, knowledge and intelligence, right? So, why do you lump me in with all the other "religious people?" Have you read any of my writing, besides the tit-for-tat here in the forum?
I would love to present logical arguments. That's my main purpose. But it seems that so many of the non-religious individuals enjoy making insults. Shucks! And I guess I wanted to try it out, too. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm only assuming that you enjoy such things. Was that an incorrect assumption? And if you do enjoy such things, as so many seem to, then I've made my point. Score 1 for logic.
If you really want a logical argument, I'd love to debate with you. You can find me. But if all you can bring to the table are statements like "nonsensical beliefs" and "I dare ya," then you are not as intelligent as I thought.
I would love to be wrong on that one! If you really want the dare, you can find me. If you never show up, then I'll know how shallow your dare was.
The problem with thinking that no one has the right interpretation of the bible is that when you make this silly assumption you leave God out of the equation.
God wrote the book, God reveals His word when the timing and/or the vessel can handle it.
Christians need to be open to new revelations about the word of God, not all christians: some are content to believe in a literal snake in a literal tree and God bless them for that... but others when they get a wiff of a strange thing that peaks their curiosity - they research it, study it, wrestle with it and hopefully, allow God to have His say. Sometimes people become all heady and proud and do the research strictly on their own merits of ability, forgetting that God knows all about His book. For others the time was not right, speaking of history here.
For example some have criticized why electricity was not divulged by God way earlier in history and my refute on that is "look how close we are to destroying our planet in the 100yrs since electricity, would we not all be dead by now with thousands of years of hydro", only God knows.
keep going lone77 i find you interesting reading
Correct! Being that the bible is irrelevant, primitive nonsense.
Say something to support your position, and stop with the childish nonsensical misinformation...based purely on conjecture. Thank you.
More childish drivel from a VERY angry believer!
Boy you are really p!ssed that your religion is nonsense, and it is causing such a trauma in your psyche. Makes you feel like you might have to make decisions for yourself, huh? How frightening that must be for you!
But your position is just as ridiculous as the fanatical fundamentalist...and it's quite disturbing that you actually believe that you are LOGICAL!
I hope you are not advocating that you present such a discussion. Judging by your insane statements on this forum, this is a waste of time...and extremely laughable.
Some people are legends in their own...mind!
Cain was married and Adam and Eve also had daughters. Cain created Nod, the city east of Eden, and the fellowship of the Way of Cain, a way opposed to God. And the Mark of Cain is the cross or an X.
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cain.htm
Good point, that would make the creation story in the bible false.
Einstein would groan at that hollow logic.
Genesis 5:2 is one small clue that you guys are taking things too literally. Of course, you're not taking it too seriously, either. But that's your problem, now isn't it? You miss out on all the fun. Puffing up your egos has got to be hard work.
Like Einstein said, imagination is more valuable than knowledge. And the way you guys treat knowledge, you're in dire need of a whole lot of imagination. Einstein started out with a good dose of humility, but he failed to recognize the value of that. It might have helped him save face when later confronted with quantum mechanics.
As it is, Einstein later lost all credibility with his peers. He had the imagination, knowledge and intelligence, but lost his humility. Do you guys even know how to spell "humility," or has ego-pumping got you blind to that word?
And it takes humility to find answers. Einstein had it in his youth.
We can all see your humility lonestarr!
Quick someone give this man a mirror!
And instead of talking about the topic of this forum, all you can do is poke fun. Very funny, my humble earnestness!
Your ego must be as big as a mountain... no, a planet, by now! Whew!
Do I still have an ego? You betcha! But I don't want it, like you guys seem to.
Mirror? I welcome it. Have you tried it, lately?
And back to the topic at hand, if that is not too much of a burden. Did you even look up Genesis 5:2?
Hey bad boy, I don't need to look it up.
You sure are gonna come off a bad ninth in this little war of words. You shouldn't come unarmed like this. You are about as transparent as glass.
It must take a lot of humility to point out the lack of humility in others?
Very intelligent, Kirsten. Ego is such a burden. I learn more about my own every time I attempt to carry on a logical discussion in one of these forums. Humble? Only on a good day, and today is not one of them.
How about your own ego? Have you looked in a mirror, lately? Do you see more than that pretty face staring back at you? Something on the other side of those eyes?
And on the subject of this thread, what do you think of Genesis 5:2? How does it explain more people on Earth than Adam, Eve and Cain?
Why are you bringing up Einstein and fabricating stories about him? What does that have to do with anything?
So, rather than attempting to correct me regarding the creation story, you toss that out?
Terrible behavior.
Too many take the Bible literally. The wisdom in there isn't that easy. You have to have humility to find it -- something most of these jokers will never find enough of.
One clue: Genesis 5:2, "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."
So, what does this have to do with it? If you read carefully, you see that here Genesis is describing a group named "Adam," not an individual. This Adam was male and female. This was humanity. How many? It doesn't say.
How do you think the early patriarchs lived to such outrageous ages? Methuselah may have been an individual, but Methuselah was also a tribe, like the "Adam" tribe.
There is even a timeline in Genesis compatible with those of science. But like I said, it takes humility to find it.
He placed a dark mark right, a bruise from bouncing his head off the ground in repentance, in the center of his fore-head... sound familiar to any muslims? hahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Ah it is too early to laugh so hard.
getitrite wrote
What makes you always think that your INTERPRETATION of the bible is the correct one?
= - = - =
me
Did you consider that question beore you wrote it?
Who doesn't think their version is the correct one?
I am no diferent than you in that regard
= = - ---
getitrite wrote
I don't need your interpretations, and I don't know what was mis-translated, and neither do you.
== == ==
me
How do you know what I do or don't know? You don't.
==== -- ---
getitrite wrote
Stop pretending that you know something that others don't know, please
== == ==
me
Does my presence here bother you?
Why?
Because I do not agree with everything you pretend to know?
Your presence here doesn't bother me, but arrogant displays of pseudo-knowledge does.
Do you have no mirrors in your house? Guess not.
I take the bible literally. I don't see any reason not to.
In my opinion, you seem to perceive the bible through some other means. Again, I could be wrong. Just my opinion.
I guess one is not superior to the other, when the book in question is dubious in the first place.
But just for clarification, Could you explain how you came up with this tribe symbolism or idea?
But just for clarification, Could you explain how you came up with this tribe symbolism or idea?
= = - - =
me Huh ?
take this literally
Genesis 3:7 And the EYES of them both were OPENED, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
DID THIS LITERAL PHRASE IMPLY THEIR EYES WERE PREVIOUSLY CLOSED?
Getitrite said:
I take the bible literally. I don't see any reason not to.
I said:
take this literally
Genesis 3:7 And the EYES of them both were OPENED, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
DID THIS LITERAL PHRASE IMPLY THEIR EYES WERE PREVIOUSLY CLOSED?
then i said:
What no rant to this post Getitrite?
I guess you did not take my post literally when i asked you to respond to my post.
Sorry, I simply overlooked this post.
It very well could have been that their eyes were previously closed. The outcome would still have been the same.
Stop trying to exploit a loophole.
Could the story of Cain have been purely symbolic? Could it have been code for something completely different than murder and retribution?
The story doesn't make sense when taken literally. Okay, some of these jackels will never take the Bible seriously. That's their loss. It takes humility to find answers. Even scientists know this, if they're worth their salt.
How does the story of Cain not make sense? Why would a loving God who later condemns murder (see Ten Commandments) give such outlandish protection to a murder and a liar? If you take this literally, you miss the point by several light years.
The mark placed on Cain was symbolic and also a coded clue for decyphering the Genesis timeline (which clearly does not match reality at 6000 years for everything). Read it again. The mark was very clear. And it was symbolic.
And why would a descendant of Cain, Lamech, claim for himself similar protection of seventy-seven times the hurt? This is another important clue.
What if the story is not of murder and retribution, but one of life and procreation? Anyone who knows God would know that the literal story does not jive. Anyone with enough humility would search for the answer and find it not on the literal page.
I don't know how much can be learned from one who uses sarcasm like a blunt sword and who's posts are ripe with snide ego driven abuse, but like it or not, it seems we are about to find out.
Thanks, Earnest. You've pointed out the obvious. You win a gold star!
But nowhere in any of the religious forums have I seen you add anything meaningful to the conversation. In fact, it seems you enjoy dishing out such ascerbic wit and snide ego, yourself. I think my point is made by your presence.
Have you even mentioned the "mark upon Cain?" Or is an intellectual discussion about the topic at hand beneath your lofty ego?
You have been here over a year and that's all ya got?
You will disappear up your log again when the going gets going.
whatever
but i did like the fact he noticed your lack of intelligent debate or even meaningful conversation (unless you are applauding some atheist bedfellow for being likewise deceived as yourself)
acerbic wit and snide ego... you do indeed reap what you sow huh.
maybe its time after all these years to forgo with your acerbic wit and snide ego or are they too comfy for ya
I see where lone77 is coming from and the point that he tells it like it is is not antichristian nor is it puffed up or egotistical.. its just fair.
by Dave Mathews 11 years ago
We all know according to scripture the creation of Adam and Eve.We all know that Eve gives birth to Cain and Abel according to scripture.We all know that Cain kills Abel according to scripture.We are told according to scripture that when Cain is banished by God, Cain leaves taking with him his...
by ngureco 11 years ago
Was Cain A Product of the Fruit Eve Ate and Abel A Real Product from Adam?
by vanteezy 14 years ago
Who or what impregnated Eve with Cain and Abel?
by Cindy Vine 6 years ago
If Adam and Eve were the only two people on Earth, who did their children marry?
by vanteezy 14 years ago
Why isn't Cain and Abel the son of Adam but the son of Eve?
by PhoenixV 8 years ago
Who Was Cain's Wife?Who was Cain's wife and who was Cain talking about when he said "that every one that findeth him shall slay him"? Verse and scripture supported answers are best and please no inappropriate or obscene responses.
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