Urgent Prayer Request
Jesus told me it was a trick and you better watch out because your being decieved. But I most certainly am praying for them. Praying that they do not get elected and praying that if Obama is elected he doesn't get assasinated.
We are, BTW, overdue for the 20 year curse. I pray that God will expose all their ugliness and open your "blinded" and "ingorant" and "distasteful" and "war mongering" and "sick hearted" eyes.
In the name of good ole J.C. Amen, Amen.
Deane,
I inderstand I just didn't understand why we are not praying for our nation as taht is what we are taught in church. I can honestly say I do not know if the Minister of our church is Democrat or Republican this I di know you did do the right thing by praying for the nation as you and I know what Revelations says and praying for one but not the other , is what God would h ave us do. Although the posting is controversial believe me you will have both sides of the world making commenting , be strong in Christ and you will always prevail.
It is a very interesting topic and I did not know you were not supposed to post it either , it is always a lesson learned.
God Bless
Truly a God thing
I am getting fed up of the religious spammers myself. We seem to have had a huge influx. Just here to drop garbage like this.
I have reported it.Should we just ban religion on Hubpages? But then - heck - it will not resemble a real life as close as it does today.
So I guess we have to live with religious spammers, just hitting them on the head when they get too annoying 
Well they do seem to be taking over. Here to tell us how it is. I mean - look at the rubbish this one is pushing.
"WE must Stop the enemy...We must
take back the Ground.
CALLING FOR A MAJOR THRUST OF PRAYER FOR McCAIN & PALIN"
I am praying for them alrightShe is not posting what she thinks.
She is CALLING FOR PRAYER.
But OK, I understand that you are too ignorant to understand the difference between opening up a discussion and what she posted.
I forgive you your ignorance. You know not what you do- Thanks but I don't need you forgiveness Mark.
What better place to call for prayer than in a religion forum. Vitriolic huh? Interesting choice of words. And appropriate. Allow me to salve your ignorance. Although, you were also a participant in another thread just recently where you accepted that my calling some one a spammer was correct. If you noticed, the same person who contradicted me here, contradicted me there. Or did you not see that?
edit -wrong christian
Perhaps you would care to back that up with some reasoning? Or did god tell you?
Seriously. I understand that you have trouble understanding that some one could come to a conviction without faith, but - I hate to break it to you. Some people use reasoned judgment and investigation of facts before coming to a conclusion.
Actually no. I understand that you cannot fathom any one coming to a conclusion without faith. I am quite happy to believe if there is any proof whatsoever of a god. Unfortunately there is none. Now, I accept that I cannot prove the non-existence of something. But, by that token, Santa Claus is as realistic as god.
So - which is more realistic - believing in something that there is no proof for, or not believing in something until it is proven?
Please feel free to quote me where I am attacking a christian.
Yes, I do ridicule "christians" who parley their belief into political convictions. Absolutely. Vote for McCain and Palin because god told me to tell you to do that ? Oh yes.
I am not sure I would consider that an attack.
Defense? Possibly.
You are a little correct in that I feel an obligation to alleviate some ignorance. Probably because I was blessed with a decent education and feel I have been "convicted" to do so.
Make Money here, for example, believes it is wrong to teach evolution in schools - I could never quite ascertain why, but I even started a thread for the purpose:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/7572
And if you care to look through the older forums threads you will discover a disturbing number closed after personal attacks on me.
So, yes, vitriolic is an appropriate term to use. I will continue to spend my time "bringing into the light," christians who say one thing and act in an un-christian way.
Just the same way Jesus did
Looking forward to why you think non-belief in god based on a lack of evidence, and an overwhelming body of evidence that the bible is not to be taken literally - is a religion.
I don't think God does but Christians do because according to this inane prayer, the Christians believe that McCain and Palin are the "chosen" ones I guess.
If I see McCain or Palin get shot dead and left in the street and then get up and walk after three days, I might change my tune. And if it were predestined to happen then a prayer like this would be pointless. lol
Of course that would rule out thier belief in free will.Well I have read your most of your post and I think you are sweet. No I also don't believe that all Christians believe that, it was in reference to the thread topic.
Maybe you could pray for the entire world instead. Maybe if people started praying for everyone instead of certain nations, people, things etc...things would get better. After all, if prayer is working then doesn't that say something about what people are praying for.
I remember a song that one of my highschool history teachers played when we were studying the Vietnam war. I don't remember the name or the hole song just one piece of it...
Hey, ho what are we fighting for, don't ask me cause I don't give a damn, I am on my way to vietnam. Five, six, seven open up the pearly gates...
Well, this is where we stumble in our discussion.
I am quite prepared to say that I do not believe in god.
But I am not prepared to say that I "believe" there is no god. I have stated that I do not believe in god, and although you are not accusing me of not making any examination of the evidence, you immediately dismiss it by contradicting me and saying that I cannot possibly have done that, and that you do not think I have come to any rational conclusions and therefore am relying solely on belief that there is not a god.
Based solely on the fact that it is not possible to prove something does not exist - yet
And apparently, you also think that this is an assertion that "seems a bit illogical and unreasonable" which rather makes your beliefs the same I would have thought?
You have, of course, chosen not to answer any of my questions to you.
As for the compelling proof you mention, I imagine this is the sort of internal, compelling proof, that is not visible to the naked eye, or measurable in any way. Let's face it - I am a rational man, if you could offer any proof whatsoever, I would be easily convinced.
As for the label atheist or agnostic, I claim neither. Atheist is the closest I can come up with. All I can say is I do not believe in god. If that makes me an atheist, so be it.
As for my "religious zeal," you will notice a few things about that - It tends to be directed at certain people -
Those who claim that their religious beliefs have led them to a conclusion that in some way harms others. Whether it is voting for a person based on their military ability and willingness to use nuclear weapons if necessary, or encouraging nationalistic aggressive behavior.
Those who attempt to extract money based on their religious words.
Those who attempt to stir national, religious or racial hatred, based on their religious convictions.
Those who discourage education based on the fact that they perceive certain scientific theories - evolution for example - to be a lie and going against god's word.
I do not believe in god. I gave this serious thought and investigation. Having spent some considerable amount of time - unable to find any compelling reasons or proofs, I tentatively came to the conclusion that there was no god.
I then went looking in places most people do not look. Admittedly, in my exploration, I came across many things I could not explain fully. I have personally experienced being in another body, and this body was me, but not. I have communed with spirits in an American Indian sweat lodge. I can make a very accurate Tarot reading. I can at will connect myself to the universe in ways I find very difficult to put into words. I can bring on this ability in others if I choose to do so. I can become aware of a person before they have even entered my "normal" senses. I can and have done and will continue to do these things.
None of them require a creator. None of them need a superior being to have made them. We are far more than you christians give us credit for. And far less. I am as important as a grain of sand on the beach.
Many of the senses we were born with are no longer in everyday use and lie dormant. This actually becomes stressful - accepting those "animal" senses rather than fighting them, or attributing them to some mythical higher power is not a route I have chosen to take. I have embraced them, and in doing so, set myself free of many of the constraints people allow to be placed upon them. Fighting against the idea that we are actually animals and are somehow "superior," make zero sense to me.
Just because you become aware of something you are unable to measure or sense in "normal" ways, jumping to the conclusion that it is god is unreasonable and unworthy. Immediately translating those impulses to defend one's self and then saying "It is god's word," is also a fallacy.
And self-propagating. All the time there are christians who decide to homeschool their children because they believe evolution is a lie, and convince themselves that god "convicted" them to do it, this will continue. All the time it suits the powers-that-be to persuade the population that there is a threat and god has told the leaders to protect against it, it will continue.
As I always say - You and I are both Atheists - I just believe in one less god than you do.
By the way, how about answering my question as to how you came to the conclusion that the other gods do not exist - The Flying Spaghetti Monster for instance. Faith - or did you reason your way to it?Well. what word would you use to describe someone who believes that evolution is a political doctrine, that dolphins are proof evolution could not happen, and that posting a CALL TO PRAYER is not the same thing as opening up a discussion thread?
OK - There are a several things here.
From my understanding of the myths of Wotan and Zeus etc, they did have a philosophy to follow. It was just a different one to the christ myth.
But - you seem to be saying that one of the reasons you dismissed them is that the superhuman fighting abilities and so on seemed unreasonable, yet walking on water and bringing people back from the dead seems pretty rational?
And I ask you again - which is more reasonable - believing in something that there is no evidence for, or not believing in that something?
But I do agree with you on one thing. One might expect that a true god would have a lasting group of followers rather than splintered groups of people who cannot agree what he said and fight wars over the interpretation of his word.
A true god would have made himself a little more clear. Which touches on another of my reasons for not believing. No faith - just logicI was not aware I was name-calling. I merely stated that they were ignorant of certain facts. You are saying that this is an insult? I myself am ignorant of many facts and quite prepared to admit so.
I am lost now. I have applied exactly the same principals to whether or not I believe in the christian god as you have applied to the ancient Greek and Norse gods. Yet when you apply then, it is reasoning, and when I apply them it is "faith"?
You are twisting what I said to meet your needs. But - you still did not answer my question, although If you have some evidence of the christian god - I ask you to please share. I think we might need to define the word "evidence," first though.
Well, I don't see how this is an argument in favor. Much of the reason christ is "still a key figure" is the amount of wars fought in his name and forcible conversions made over the last few centuries. As I mentioned earlier, all the time there are christian prepared to homeschool their children because they believe evolution is a lie, I am sure that will continue.
But, this is the McDonalds approach - if there is a lot of them, it must be good. No thanks
Quite apart from that, many earlier gods are still with us. We even name some of our days of the week after them. Every Thor's day we remember one of my favorites. Now there was a god. No misinterpreting his message
And using this logic, you should switch to Pantheism - widely regarded as the most subscribed to religion. Even if you count all the christains as one religion, which many would disgree with.
Well, here we can semi-agree. As I mentioned in another thread - I have yet to meet a genuine christian. But, if the teaching was actually sound - we would not have this issue.It is not meant as an insult. Merely an observation. I do consider some one who believes evolution is a lie to be ignorant. i.e - lacking in knowledge.
But - you are once again mis-stating this. This is not something that cannot be proven.
This is something that cannot be dis-proven. And this is a pretty big distinction because it is not possible to dis-prove the existence of anything.
Surely the onus is on the claimant to prove the existence of something rather than the other way round?
Let me say this - "You own a Bugatti Veyron and it is in your garage." You cannot prove this is not the case if I choose to believe it is.......
I understand that you "believe" there is evidence for a belief in the christian god. Unfortunately this is not empirical evidence. And I have already doven deep into the subject. Most of what constitutes "evidence" turns out to be - "Well, I cannot conceive of any other answer, therefore it was the christian god."
But, if you have some other proofs, I am all ears.
But - you are missing my point. If it was not for the aggressive attack on the world by certain christian sects, it would have died out with all the other discarded religions. The Spanish conquistadors wiping out entire civilizations in the name of christ; The Inquisition; the formation of the United States after decimating the indigenous populations to be able to practice their religion free from the constraints of the Church of England, blah, blah, blah,
All done with force, all to spread the word of christ. If this had not happened, would the WORD still be around? I very much doubt it. Force of arms is the only thing that has spread Jesus' message far and wide. He would be turning in his grave - if he had one
I agree with one thing - Christianity acknowledges individual imperfection and forgives you your transgressions. Which pretty much makes the entire message meaningless. If you go out into the world and forcibly convert, kill, rape and maim, well, that is OK. You are forgiven - as long as you accept Jesus as your personal savior - you can kill to your heart's content...
There is a big difference between hitting a golf ball and christ's teachings. And you do have to be perfect. Nothing else will do. You cannot drop a nuclear bomb on some one and later claim to be a christian.
No - I have never met a christian.
Will you lay down your life for me?
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
0I think the only difference is, because one believes or has faith in a God then all those who do not believe in a God or believe thier is a God requires some sort of "faith".
Not so, if there is no God, then what amount of "faith" is required? You see, one who has faith that there is a God, doesn't understand that there is no God, no amount of "faith" or "belief" is neccessary.
Like the Universe, yip, it is there...one doesn't need faith to know that it is there unless conversing with another who "believes" that it is a lie. See the difference?
So while one says, yes there is a God or I know there is, or I have faith in God...what that is the way you understand it. Just because it feel true to one does not, under any circumstances, make it true for another. No matter how much you believe it, no matter how scary it may sound, no matter how much you want to beleive that if a person says, there is not God, that you God will damn them to hell or something.
I personally believe in My God, not your God, not no God, not a Universal God, not a Christain God, just....My God, and I say My God can kick your God's or gods a**es. lol. but the catch is, it doesn't need to proven. But that is ok, my assesment is sound and you cannot understand that if there is no God, there is neither a "faith" or "belief" associated with it.
If there is not God, then there is not faith. It only rings this way to you because you believe there is one.
Anyways, no harm, no foul.
Fun, you committed a logical fallacy here.
You use the assumption "atheism=belief", which is equal to "atheism=statement of faith" to prove that atheism=statement of faith
You first need to prove that atheism=belief.- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
Also Fun,
I think this is something that you want an athiest to admitt because doing so would give you a means or ground for reproach in debate or something.
But the same problems occure within religions that posess a God. On believes in Hell the other does not. One believes that people to Heaven and another of the same faith believes in an Earthly Paridise.
Neither can be proven, only believed because that is what you want. I don't see anything wrong with it until people put anger between them and fail to understand that we are all human and different with different thoughts, imaginations, "faiths", principles, understandings and such.
I wouldn't see how God even the Christain or Muslim God would care about how you believe but only that you believe. and treat each other with human dignity, compassion and understanding and stuff.
I don't think it is so hard to do unless someone says that these things don't mean anything unless you believe.
the way I see it is, that anyone who helps one who believe (even if they don't) will be part of the special place or forgiven or whatever comes next.
You could have spent your entire life believing in something that was never going to happen and along the way people have fought for nothing.
Like I said, I don't care if people believe or disbelieve or assert there is no God, what matters to me is that we build a good world here and now in the one that we do have. And if there is a God, I am pretty sure he would be happy with us for that.
Your God is just a definition found in a book. Sorry if that bothers you for me to say that, but it is.
And Jesus would be happy if we all just got a long. Plus, whether you believe it or not, not everyone belongs to Jesus or needs Jesus no matter how much you want to believe that.Well, for me atheism is not a doctrine, etc. It is a lack of a need for God. And such a lack can't really be a basis for your outcome
In fact this refers only to "The People of The Book" - Judaists, Christians, and Muslims. Buddhists are fine with different ways, and Hunduists are fine, too - to the best of my knowledge. And Pagans are by definition tolerant to different ways
Well, the reason I made fun of you when you said you were praying for me is I knew what you were praying for. And you have now made that clear.
You are praying that I start think the way you think and stop making fun of people who misunderstand the message that Jesus was sent to deliver.
So you are not really praying for me. You are praying for you.
And I have tried in the past to explain just how offensive and condescending it sounds when people use the words you have just used. I will not cut and paste your entire statement to me, so forgive me if I make it seem as though I am quoting out of context.
Yes, this is fairly condescending. I am sure you do mean well, but you are basically telling me that all my education is waste, and that you have garnered more knowledge that I, and you want this knowledge so that you can get into heaven, And I am not going to heaven because I do not agree with you.
Please explain how opening a thread with these words is being kind-hearted, compassionate, patient, loving, or helping others when they need help. Politics, that is all.
How about I try and explain it all in terms that you will understand?
I have SEEN THE LIGHT. GOD in His infinite wisdom has chosen to show me the TRUTH, the WAY and the true meaning of Jesus' sacrifice.
HE has CONVICTED ME to spread the word and cast out those poor SINNERS who believe that getting involved in politics and making war on their fellow man to make money is the way of christ, IT IS A SIN.
GET THEE BEHIND me those that think all they have to do is open their heart to Jesus and then use their mis-guided faith to promote hatred, wars and ignorance of scientific facts.
For they are surely damned to an ETERNITY IN HELL for taking the LORD'S name in vain.
Cast off your mis-begotten needs to force your value system on others. Cast away your sword and instead pick up the true meaning of christianity instead.
I pray that your ignorance be lifted by Jesus himself. There is power in the name Jesus!
Dis-believe me at YOUR ETERNAL PERIL. I have SPOKEN THE WORD.
DO not laugh, this is not an idle threat, it is merely the TRUTH !!!!!!
That help?- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
Sandra, don't let others and their actions get between you and Truth. Everything you mentioned above is specifically addressed by Jesus, including his origin.
Yes, you can understand that which you cannot see.The only truth I know as "truth" is that "truths" is what "you" believe as the truth. And what is good for one doesn't mean it is good for another. This applies as well to Jesus.
I figure you assume that because you believe that Jesus is the only path that leads to salvation, that all men have to come this way. I don't believe that is true, that is true for me.
I suppose I only get irritated when people make thier assumptions on things that are internal in a person and feel that because it doesn't comply with what you consider the truth, then it must be a lie.
But I am not knocking what you believe, I knock your methods of approval of other human beings especially when you use Christ because Christ was pretty accepting of everyone, and Christains seem intollerant of anyone who doesn't see Christ or life in the same way.
So while I call Jesus the deciever, I never said I don't believe him. I never said I don't believe the Bible either, I just have a different understanding of it and what I understand of it is the truth for me so I don't understand anyones audacity to tell me I am wrong in what I believe when you could be wrong too, but for some of you, you wouldn't even consider that you are all wrong.
there very well could be no God, no Jesus etc. So I understand the faith, what I don't understand is why some will let this life go in a race for one that you may not have.
When your dead, your dead. That is it, there may be a resurection sometime in the very distant future, but what would it matter? If you make it lucky you, but I wouldn't assume that God would be so cruel to continueing punishing people in pit of fire because they lived in a world that is full of corruption and impossible circumstances. You are done, that is it.
Be happy you have this life is what I say. View life as though you are "as significant as a grain of sand" because this will keep you humble and on track, but love it like it is really special and youselves are special because you got the chance to see it for what it is.
Those things keep my outlook on life in check, they keep me reaching for better things, a better way of life for everyone not just myself. But chose your own.
Who does Jesus love the most?
The one who went its own way.who says I didn't find my way through Jesus? Something to really think about before you make assumptions about what I believe.
Sandra,
If I am to place any stock in the words that you write, then I can come to several different conclusions about what you believe.
One time you may believe in Jesus, the next you may not.
One time you may believe Jesus is the only way. The next you may believe there are other ways.
One time you believe Jesus is the Truth. The next you may be lieve he is a deceiver.
One time you may believe that what Jesus says is true for all men to abide by. The next you may believe what He says is not true for all men to abide by.
What I believe about Jesus is irrelevant. What does Jesus say about Himself? Isn't that what's important? Otherwise, aren't we left to make up the Jesus we prefer to have instead of the Jesus that revealed Himself to men? That's a big difference!nope, really I think the big differene is I believe in God and that if there is some saving to done, then God will save me. I don't care what anyone says because it won't change the outcome for me.
Everything will go to where it belongs and I belong to God, not Jesus no matter how much you disagree. I think it is rather silly to assume that everyone must come through Jesus to be saved.
I do believe what Jesus says is true, but I understand something extremely different from most of you and most of which you wouldn't ever understand and no matter how detailed I am about what I think, you still wouldn't get it because you have become so, what is the word...um...prided by what you believe and don't leave room for anything else.
Some people get it some don't. It was pretty interesting that I get this message a while back, "the calling" if you will that told me to bring the Christian up to God.
Not through God, to God and just the Christians, why just the Christains???
I wouldn't tell you the details about it because I am certain you wouldn't believe it anyways.
I also think that if Jesus did come down here right now and was like "I am Jesus", you would say something like, if anyone comes in his name and says follow me, they are an angel of dark. You would deny him right to his face.
but whatever.because I have already been down that road.
would you like to share some of those things?
because you would have to search really hard in places you may not want to go, in thoughts you may not fancy, to understand the complexites of what I was told. Most will not.
It's like a beautiful rose that sit on top of a mountian surrounded by thorn, but promises everlasting life to the one who plucks it.
You would have to reach deep into the things that may be very scary in order to see how beautiful the rose truely is.
Would you care to share some of that?
That is a pretty good conclusion, one I wont disagree with. I think it sounds a lot like Jesus.
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