Is Atheism a European Disease?

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   Cromperposted 10 years ago

   Matt Dillahunty, best known as presenter of 'The Atheist Experience', asked, in his presentation at this year's Texas Freethought Convention; (from memory) "why does the US media always drag atheist spokepersons over from the UK to talk about atheism when there are plenty of American atheists to choose from?"
   Is it simply that people like Richard Dawkins are experts in their respective fields, or could it be the 'Holywood' method of only using European accents to represent something which is deemed evil?

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      A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There's a contradiction in terms.

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         Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         What is?

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            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Texas and Freethought, or any kind of thought for that matter.

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               Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I must insist that we keep this forum politically correct. Naughty!

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               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Are you implying that cows can't think?  They can (usually) find their way to the barn, and I believe the average Texan can do the same.

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                  Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  We call them 'sheepshaggers'. Is that allowed?

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                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  

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      psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Well, um, Dawkin's *is* the highest profile activist athiest alive. Why wouldn't they have him over from time to time?

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      livelongerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      American atheists would want atheism connected with "European" (I assume you mean British) accents because they want atheism connected with evil?
      
      It sounds like you haven't sorted this idea out yet.

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         Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         No - European! Ayn Rand and other non-British folks came out of the woodwork as WWII ended. German accent/Danish accent/ take your pick.

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            psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I have no idea what you mean by that.

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               Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               By what?
               OK Ayn Rand was Russian but the accent sounded European.

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                  psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  And your point is that someone made Ayn Rand famous because they thought Americans would mistake her Russian accent for a European one and based on the post WWII hatred for our evil European allies, assume her philosophy was evil?
                  
                  Seriously, I don't know what you are trying to say. That was my best guess.

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                     Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     psycheskinner, You are commenting in a thread that was started by 'livelonger'. Maybe that is why you don't understand.

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            livelongerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Ayn Rand is not a favorite among the "crusading atheists" here (she is among libertarians), but Dawkins and Hitchens are. I don't know which Germans and Danes you're talking about.
            
            Besides, I don't understand: why would American atheists want to portray atheism as an evil European import?

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               Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Did you read my original post?

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                  livelongerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I sure did. It does not help me understand your "Holywood" theory.

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                     Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I guess you are a big fan of Holywood movies then.

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                        livelongerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        You can stop being snide and maybe explain yourself better (maybe you can't).
                        
                        I understand your point about evil characters in Hollywood movies being given European accents, because they imply guile and deviousness to simpleminded Americans.
                        
                        What I don't understand is why American atheists, who presumably would not want atheism to be conflated with evil, would want to draw the same parallel. (It's not atheist-hating evangelical Christians who are inviting Dawkins over to speak.) Since they have no reason to, I would consider this theory as brainless and not well thought-out.

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                           Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           If you read my initial post again, it is the American MEDIA who are getting the Brits to discuss atheism. They are ignoring the home-grown atheists.
                           This in itself implies something, and all I am trying to do is get to the bottom of it.
                           Does that clarify things for you?

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                              livelongerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Who are the home-grown atheists who are well-known, by publishing bestselling books on atheism?
                              
                              I'm not an atheist myself, but I know Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and Hitchens' "God is Not Great." I don't think either is begrudging their own success. I'm at a loss to name any American atheist except maybe Sam Harris, and I have no idea if he's written anything.
                              
                              So, like psycheskinner says, they are simply well-known.

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                                 Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 " I'm at a loss to name any American atheist except maybe Sam Harris, and I have no idea if he's written anything."
                                 You have just demonstrated perfectly your own ignorance.
                                 I live in an insignificant town in an insignificant part of the UK and even I know the books written by Sam Harris!

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                                    livelongerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hey, they need a real British atheist on some news segments this coming week. Are you in?

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                                       Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       LOL!

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      toobsuckerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Atheism is predominately a liberal "religion". Europe has far more liberals than America does, hence more atheists

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         earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         “In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.”
         ― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation

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   Emile Rposted 10 years ago

   It makes perfect sense. They say if you have a british accent, americans think you're smarter. Maybe they are trying to create the illusion that atheists are smarter. It might be a sales gimmick.

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      Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It depends on the accent. You're thinking of the 'posh' accent. What about; "Cor blimey guvnor! Me chimney needs sweeping and no doubt about it." ??

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         Wentworth35posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         No, that isn't an English accent, that is a Dick van Dyke accent.  They aren't the same thing.

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            Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Are you trying to tell me they don't talk like that in London? Please don't destroy my illusion!

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            Chasukposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            As someone who lived in England for eleven years,  that most certainly is an "English" accent.  in fact, the uneducated English accent is far more common than the "posh" one.

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               earnestshubposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               As an Australian with English friends who speak both ways, I prefer the "uneducated" accent myself. although the lispy upper-class accent is hilarious!

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   Wentworth35posted 10 years ago

   I think atheism is more acceptable in Europe than in the US, because there are more of us.  In Sweden for example, 85% of the population are atheists.  America seen from a European perspective seems very religious in a very old fashioned way, much like Britain in the 1950s.
   
   However, there is a Hollywood bias, which portrays the British as evil.  I think it all began with Joan Collins in Dynasty.  She played such a good role, that ever since, the evil character has to have a British (or rather English) accent.  Richard Dawkins is ideal for this role, as is Christopher Hitchens, even though he is now an American citizen.  However, he is still the ideal, hard-drinking and smoking, cynical Brit in many people's eyes.

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      Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Wentworth! Gotta laugh!
      I think you're right about religion in America. It does seem very 'Victorian' in nature.
      Darth Vadar had an English accent. I think he came before Joan in Dallas.
      ...or was it Dynasty?
      The 'cynical Brit'; that's the reality! We are cynical in Europe because of the World Wars and all the propaganda that was involved in twisting people's perceptions. After the last war, all of the secrets came out and we learnt our lessons (on both sides). No wonder religion (which uses the same techniques) is losing support.

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         AntonOfTheNorthposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, but the voice of Darth Vader was James Earl Jones, who is American (African American at that)

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            Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly!
            Does that not add weight to my argument?

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   EmpressFelicityposted 10 years ago

   This thread is even more confusing than the "is Cagsil an atheist/agnostic?" one.

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      Cromperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It's kind of 'loaded'. If you read between the lines you will see where I'm going with this.

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   Chasukposted 10 years ago

   I already understood what you meant, but hopefully that clarifies it for those who didn't.
   
   I think the real "cause" is that, Chavs, lager-louts and "yobbos" aside, it isn't stigmatized, to be an intellectual in the UK.. Grab a newspaper in England -- not a tabloid -- and flip to the letter column. The letters are notable in that they aren't written by idiots. The authors know how to spell, punctuate, and form complete thoughts with complete sentences.

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   earnestshubposted 10 years ago

   “In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.”
   ― Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation.

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   earnestshubposted 10 years ago

   More from Sam.
   
   “Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever.”
   ― Sam Harris

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   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   Basically, foreign experts are only bemusing if you assume nothing important ever happens outside of the United States.

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