All Honest Skeptics, Prove That You Would Be Willing To Obey God

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Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years ago
An Open Challenge to ALL Atheists and Agnostics: Prove that you would be willing to obey the One True God If His Existence Can Be Proven

Many people say they don't believe in the 1 True God (of the Bible) because there's no convincing evidence. BUT many of those same people ARE ONLY LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO REMAIN IN UNBELIEF, and NOT ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER.

So an insincere argument implodes in on itself but if you are truly sincere then you would be willing to obey God if His existence can be proved to you.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's pretty insulting.
  
  Your basically insinuating that honest skeptics have to prove something and that if they don't then they are only looking for an excuse to remain in unbelief.
  
  That is a pretty sham attempt at manipulation and the insinuation is pretty pathetic.
  
  W/e floats your boat.
  
  You won't sink mine however.
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  Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't mean to sink your boat, nor do I mean to be insulting. I do thank you for contributing to this forum but if you want an explanation of my reasoning, you can find the answer in part to the response I gave Rochelle Frank. Just scroll down. Thanks
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  Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I believe-- but not from 'proof'. Scripture says we are saved by faith.
  
  I think knolyourself has a valid point.
  
  And leave those who are not looking for an answer to their own devices.
  
  Thomas did not believe at first, but he was a questioner looking for proof... and it was given.
  I only got what was 'convincing proof' for myself, when I asked questions.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm?
  
  A little illogical now isn't it?
  
  When one lowers the standard for 'proof' to the level you are talking about one can believe in anything from Allah to Jesus and Jupiter and everything in between.
  
  One can then label the opposing "god(s)" as demons, djinni, evil spirits, false spirits, or mere prophets as further 'proof' they have found the one true "god".
  
  The methodology has been basically the same throughout each major organized religion down throughout the ages. Perhaps altered a little bit here or there for a given culture in a given time period.
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  Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Scripture sayswe are saved by faith. I came to Christ by faith and He saved me. However, Jesus asked His disciples "whom say ye that I am?"
  
  He asked them that because He wanted to make sure they KNEW who He really was. Faith in a regular man named "Jesus" will not save anyone. Faith that Jesus is God and died and rose again for your sins, will save anyone. So faith saves, but biblical faith is not blind.
  
  The reason I opened this challenge was because believe have to answer this question yes or no: Am I willing to obey the true God if His existence can be proven to me, not absolutely but sufficiently.
  
  If a skeptic says "no" they are not willing to obey Him when He's proven to them then there's no reason for them to debate because he's debating from an insincere heart.
  
  The Apostle Paul was saved because he was a sincere unbeliever. He said of himself "I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth" (Acts 26:9).
  
  So God will not reveal Himself to anyone who is not of a SINCERE heart. That is why I asked this question.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Kinda got yourself a self-fulfilling argument there dontthinkaboutitjustpushyourbeliefsoneveryone.
  
  So - verily I say unto ye.
  
  I will obey god if he comes and proves himself to me. SINCERELY.
  
  Still waiting..........
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What manner of proof would be deemed acceptable to you?
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How would you prove that the universe wasn't created and controlled by a Giant Spaghetti Monster?
  
  This is a serious question.
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  Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's easy. If the God of the Bible proves His existence and then says that "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" then nobody has to prove that the universe wasn't created by a spaghetti monster.
  
  If you want to see (in a Power Point slide format) 5 proofs that the true God does exist just email me. I'll gladly forward it to you.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'll pass on the ppt slides, but I'm afraid your point about the Bible is meaningless if you believe, like I do, that the Bible is a book written by people who fabricated a self-serving story. To me, it's no more believable than the Flying Spaghetti Monster manifesto. I could easily write a book saying that the FSM proclaims his existence and offer that to you as proof.
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  Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He has proven Himself to you. Just look around you.
  
  The question you asked can be flipped around and asked to you: What manner of proof would be deemed acceptable to you?
  
  If you want to see (in a Power Point slide format) 5 proofs that the true God does exist just email me. I'll gladly forward it to you.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hehe
  
  Ben -
  
  A personal appearance would be great thanks.
  
  I like the burning chariot coming down from the sky being pulled by 4 white unicorns I think.
  
  Then a quick changing of history so that christianity has not been used as an excuse to murder, maim and destroy in the name of the LORD. Followed by the immediate disappearance of all hypocritical believers who think the bible is their divine instruction book to be nationalistic fascists.
  
  For afters - a guided tour around the universe.
  
  Any time.....
  
  IDONTTHINKNDAMTOORUDETOHAVEADISCUSSIONIJUSTSHOUTWHATIWANTTOSAY-
  
  Seriously - you are so rude in not ever answering my questions or thanking me for educating you about science that I have no particular interest in answering your stupid questions.
  
  Please PM me and I will email you photos of a plate of spaghetti which is positive proof that the world was created by the spaghetti monster.
  
  And I assume you will bow down to the spaghetti monster now that you have proof that your god is not the one.
  
  It just so happens that the spaghetti monster gives me instructions directly into my head.
  
  Send me a jar of your home-made bolognese sauce that I may test your worthiness to enter heaven.
  
  Here is a link to The Scripture instructing you on How to make a heavenly bolognese sauce
  
  If your spaghetti sauce is not good enough you will surely BURN IN SPICY ARRABIATA SAUCE FOR ALL ETERNITY WITH THE GARLIC BREAD JUST OUT OF REACH.
  
  Unless you send me $5,000 in which case I will intercede on your behalf.
  
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I lol'ed pretty hard Mark
  
  But I would say perhaps that it would be the garlic bread out of reach for all eternity AND the glass of fine red wine.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well, that is what their version sounds like to me.
  
  But - The glass of wine would "accidentally" move close enough.
  
  And when you took a gulp after 2000000000000 years with nothing to drink and no garlic bread to sop up the sauce,
  
  It would turn out to be......................?
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm. That would be interesting.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know this question was not asked of me, but I will offer what 'proof' I would consider acceptable:
  
  A personal appearance by the alleged "Lord of Hosts" himself followed by:
  
  Certain knowledge of anything that I know that no one else knows about me or things I like or do.
  
  At least 100 questions answered.
  
  A guided tour around the universe with the required suspension of the laws of physics it would require. I would want to be side by side when this happened.
  
  This being would then have to say a super nova would happen and that scientists would record it back on earth. This would have to happen and I would have to see it and then be transported back to earth (again suspension of the laws of physics would have to occur), where I could be in a civilian designated area with the being who would have to be visible to everyone else (not just me). This civilian designated area would contain scientists who would be picking up indications of a super nova on their terrestrial monitors.
  
  This being would have to take me to a mountainside and then proceed to toss boulders straight off the mountainside just by willing it. Other people would have to see this happen and look and point.
  
  This being would then have to show me his invisible hand in a manner that was clear enough how events that he transports me to in real time on the terrestrial earth correspond to a greater plan that he has. He would have to suspend the laws of physics and transport me to various locations and demonstrate this in real time.
  
  He would have to take at least 500 caskets from the ground and resurrect the lives of the corpses in them so that the dead returned to life.
  
  He would have to then explain to me why so many people killed in his name and then he would have to be willing to do the exact same thing AND DO the exact same thing with the rest of the world's population once I went and started spreading the "good news" so that they could have first hand experience of his omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.
  
  This person after having said and done this would then proceed to stay amongst the people if they wanted him to and be his own authority on his own behalf of who he is and what he stood for.
  
  If this being actually exists or could exist, it would be easy for this being to do and would clear up a great deal of confusion. This still would not constitute 'proof' of the scientific sort unless this being submitted to the most grueling and rigorous tests our scientists could think of until they were satisfied that he was indeed omnipotent and omniscient. This (minus the scientific tests) would constitute a sort of proof that would make "faith" in this being a somewhat reasonable thing, worship being another matter in and of itself.
  
  But this is not what will most likely happen, as we will be given nothing but "The sign of Jonah" which amounts to circular testimonies- and no messenger that our generation can experience- by a lineage and a priesthood of ministers and priests that can be traced back time and again throughout history to inciting some of the worst atrocities imaginable in the name of this "God".
  
  If one then goes back a couple thousand more years one can find a similar power structure in ancient Egypt in operation. Similar power structures can also be found in ancient Sumeria and other places as well. The atrocities incited by men and sometimes women of these types of power structures are listed right there in the Old Testament for all to see.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God is your other or higher self.You will be listening to yourself.
  
  You should get to know yourself,
  Mans best friend is himself.
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  Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Man's problem is not that he doesn't have enough self esteem it's that he has too much of it. Jesus (whether you believe He is God like do or not) said "love thy neighbor as thy self". He was not saying people have no love for themselves He was correcting self love and saying "you already love yourself, why don't you take some of the self love and give it to your neighbor".
  
  "Man's not at peace with his fellow man, because he's not at peace with himself and he's not at peace with himself because he is not at peace with God".
  
  But there's a solution to that: "therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom 5:1).
  
  FORGET knowing thyself.
  
  No God, No peace
  
  Know God, Know Peace
  
  Get to know the Creator and you will know who you are.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Knowing yourself is knowing God,the creator within and outside us.
  Then when you see your self or God in all you can apply what Jesus said love thy neighbor as thyself.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ot do to others as you would have others do unto you.
  
  I believe Jesus to be a saint, Prophet like Buddha,Zaratushtra,Mahavira,Sai Baba,Meher Baba,Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh etc an enlightened one.
  Someone who has experienced the Light, the source for himself.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bull crap. I do believe in God but even I'm not going to obey it. Why should an atheist or Agnostic obey either. You're not winning favors with this type of stuff. Obeying anyone is putting someone else above yourself. Know yourself then have the educated understanding to know you don't have to put these words anywhere but the garbage bin.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Even if God were able to proven to exist, why would that mean that everyone would have to obey him?
  
  It seems that the only people insisting that people obey God are those people who've designated themselves as God's representatives, and those that seem to know what rules he wants people to obey. Seems awfully coincidental.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The practitioners of priestcraft do not yield power easily.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you mean the original God? Cause if you are talking about the God of Moses, oh well then I got the 10 covered!
  
  Maybe you are talking about the other god, the one that negates the original laws of God. Is that the one your talking about, the new original god???
  
  How would you like someone to prove they would obey God...oh I mean Jesus?
  Should they slaughter a non-christain, or drink the blood of a dead human being, or maybe in order to prove they are obedient to Jesus, the new god they should bow down and give money to tax exempt churches so Father Paul can buy a new Mercadeces and boink 10 year old boys.
  
  Which is it? Oh wait...I know no can obey the 10 commandements by the Old God, because the Bible...I mean Jesus said so. So what proof are you look for, for someone to show they are obedient?
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Zarm's not a cheap date. Shadesbreath would believe for a good roll in the hay with a model. Mark thinks God is Italian (Spaghetti Monster). This is getting funny.
  
  Why don't you just post it. If it gets snipped then I'll post it again.
  
  Mike
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  hehe - God is not Italian.
  
  The Italians are the chosen people though.
  
  All true believers know this as a proven fact
  
  And no evidence you might have to the contrary will sway my proven factual knowledge.
  
  It says so right there in the book. "How to cook perfect pasta," AMEN
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Aquinas's Un-caused Cause has been busted due to lack of imagination.
  
  Whats to say that that there could not be an infinite series of cause and effect?
  
  There is nowhere in the known universe where we have observed an infinite series of cause and effect to have taken place as the result of evidenced intelligence, so there is no reason that if there was no Un-caused Cause that such a concept would require intelligence to produce a force of it's own.
  
  There is also nowhere in the visible universe where anything can be empirically reduced down to to an element that is cause independent. The atom's of yesterday are the strings of today and even those have a cause behind them which is not yet ascertainable.
  
  There could just be an infinite series of cause and effect at play in the known universe.
  
  Would that make the universe ""God'"?
  
  Hardly.
  
  I have seen Aquinas's 5 proofs and they are the yawn.
  
  I knew them and how to defend against them and they are actually pretty obsolete and de-bunked.
  
  I know Christians like to trudge this stuff up, but it has actually been debunked time and again.
  
  It's all in what you as a person are willing to accept as "evidence".
  
  This is how primitive people's would accept superstition. The priests would explain to them that natural happenings came about as a result of invisible beings. Since people do have their own "invisible friends" from time to time (mental illness or not) without the necessity of God existing, and since people can conceive of something that can exist that cannot be subject to the 5 immediate senses- the atom is a perfect example of something that can be conceived of that does not require the 5 immediate senses to directly experience in order for the conception to form- invisible beings can be construed to be the author of many things.
  
  I once used to believe that Catholicism and Christianity where somewhat historically viable (even as an atheistic agnostic), until I started sifting through Malleus Maleficarum, which was an unorthodox theologically dubious medieval hand book that eventually led to an entirely new theology of demons and witchcraft that was not even present before the 1500's.
  
  This same theology was later used to burn people at the stake after it was promoted by the common person in the Church (much to the chagrin of theologians of the time and many defenders of orthodoxy), and nowadays what was once considered unorthodox and potentially heretical to believe is mainstream and has it's roots in astrology.
  
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  weblogposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So, as you were saying on the other thread you require emails from people and you prove everything in the form of powerpoint slides, Right?
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"Prove that you would be willing to obey the One True God If His Existence Can Be Proven" If existence is proven, how could I not obey God. Then I would be a robot and a machine with no free will. You can have him, I don't want him, he's to pat for me.
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Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago
I think the only difference is the sincerity and hopefullness of the questioner.
It is not the same kind of 'proof' a true cynic or dedicated skeptic asks for... it still involves some openness and yes, even faith.

My religion is not organized. I am probably something of an honest skeptic, myself.
And I think it presumes a lot to ask "honest skeptics" to prove something, either for or against. . . but I did think about it.

I don't need" further proof" or need to find demons in religions-- others will find their own proof, or demons in their own way.
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
Nor the priests of money, war, politics, fascism or fame it would seem, to our detriment as often the case. They have such a conceit of themselves that anyone else of course would be disaster. Hard to go back to being ordinary, sometimes called
'post-traumatic stress syndrome'.
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Inspirepubposted 15 years ago
I challenge you, ThinkAboutIt.

Prove that you would be willing to obey the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Jenny
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"I know this question was not asked of me, but I will offer what 'proof' I would consider acceptable:..." Zarm you are no cheap date.
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Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago
I think fair proof would be if Keira Knightley came to my house dropped her clothes and said, "God wanted me to come make babies with you."

I'd go to church right afterwards.

Alicia Witt would be an acceptable substitute if Keira had a movie shoot or something. (See how willing I am to be convinced?)
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lmao!
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Make Moneyposted 15 years ago
Yeah but we've learned that the new element Governmentium (Gv) when it decays it falls into other new elements, Retiredum (Re) and Retardium (Rt) which some call Dementium (Dm).

Kramer and Sprenger submitted the Malleus Maleficarum to the University of Cologne’s Faculty of Theology on May 9, 1487, hoping for its endorsement. Instead, the faculty condemned it as both unethical and illegal because the demonology it contained was inconsistent with Catholic doctrine. Nevertheless, Kramer inserted an endorsement from the University into subsequent editions. The Catholic Church eventually banned the book entirely, placing it on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum. Despite this, it became the handbook for witch-hunters and Inquisitors throughout Late Medieval Europe.
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  Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mis-posted?
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Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago
I would just like to add that if both Keira and Alicia show up simultaneously, I will turn my considerable pursuasive talents to the priesthood and work hand in hand alongside Thinkaboutit to bring others into the fold.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If I can have them on Fridays, I will help............
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  spryteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Fine, fine, fine...just tell me where you want them sent so I can go back to doing other things...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whoa whoa whoa!
  
  If this is on the table - I am more than happy to start pretending to believe along with all the others....
  
  And my persuasive powers are far superior, so let's talk.
  
  PM me
  
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Cool! If this is how it works then set me up with Jared Letto on Mondays, you know as my cure for the Mondays, then I will take Vin Deisel on Tuesday, Brad Pitt (sorry Angie, he is hot) on Wednesday, hump day. Of course on Thursday a little Anderson Cooper, you know we got a Planet in Parell so I do have to do my part and also keep them honest. Friday just me and Leonardo, Saturday I would like to keep to myself and then of course on Sunday I will spend all day hangin and giving thanks to God, I think we can kick it and have dinner or something.
  
  You think this is too much to ask? lol
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  Shadesbreathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My house is fine. PLease send them with a note telling my wife that it's okay.
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
I'm makin' a list and checking it twice.
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mistyhorizon2003posted 15 years ago
So funny Shades, I had to laugh at how you turned this 'Bible Basher Brainwashing Session' into a joke about Keira and Alicia errrmmm, 'visiting you'!!!!

This is not to say I don't believe in 'something more powerful', I just don't think it is right for these people to try to force it down our throats and stand on a soap box to do so.
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spryteposted 15 years ago
Mark - No need for PM's...I can tell what you want. I must say I'm very surprised... but I will do my best to accomodate. Just remember...free will works BOTH ways...okay?

Sandra - You have incredible taste...however, I'm a bit worried about this quality Sunday time that you will be setting aside. Don't you think you'll be a little bit tired?

Shade - "Dear Mrs. Shadesbreath - Please excuse your beloved, devoted, loyal unto death husband for any transgressions in his libidinous behavior despite the promises he made in good faith to you when you said I do. Just remember...thou shalt not kill, however, maiming is nowhere in the ten commandments. Pre-praying a few dozen hail mary's and a couple of our father's should be sufficient in garnering the appropriate level of forgiveness needed for most maiming incidents. Sincerely, God"

Does that work for you?
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  Shadesbreathposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, that is horrible. Frankly for someone who claims to be at one with the male universe and a player of cards and rider of joyrides, I am surprised that in your moment of divinity the note you wrote to accompany your gift, sent as evidence of your all-powerfullness, was so clearly chicklike. I will, however, allow you to have a second shot at God, even though I must say you sure dropped the role of Bugs Bunny quick in favor of one as God. You just wanted to have it so I couldn't. I see how you are. You're the mean girl on the playground, aren't you?
  
  And yeah, Misty, any chance I get to derail a rampaging zealot, I take.
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  mistyhorizon2003posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great keep it up, we DON'T need saving !!!!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey! - I am sure I am on their lists too.........
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spryteposted 15 years ago
Oh dear...you'd prefer Bugs Bunny to Keira Knightly? Well that can be arranged...I suppose. And your devoted wife would probably have less of an issue with Bugs...don't you think?

I must commend you on your new selection. I prefer bunnies too! You'll make a fine priest!
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Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago
Terrible attempt to deflect my pwnage. Concede defeat like a man.
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  spryteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of pwnage...have you seen the t-shirt that says "Jesus was soulstoned!"
  
  Cracks me up!
  
  And why on earth would I concede defeat like a man? I'm a woman...and the concept of defeat is totally foreign to our gender.
  
  Shhhhhhhh! I'm about to defy you. - Bugs Bunny
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Christoph Reillyposted 15 years ago
I'm sorry. Keira Knightly and Alicia Witt won't be able to make it today. They are busy and can't come to the phone but I let them know you called.
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maestrowhitposted 15 years ago
I have to join this forum. It's funny.

My comment is: We are all obeying God all the time whether we believe in Him or not. It's impossible not to. It's sad to hear someone speak who thinks otherwise- very sad. Our actions, by their very essence, are compliance to God's will; every single one of them. Is this not evident to you? That's really too bad.

What are you trying to accomplish with this question? What is it that you're wanting to hear? The only way you could ever know the real answer is if you yourself proved God's existence to someone, and then observed their actions. You won't find out by asking this question, that's for sure. So what are you aiming for?
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  First: define God, Second: most if not all religions based on the idea of a supernateral creator God has given man free will, then what would be the point if according to what you said, it is impossible not to obey him.
  
  what is not evidence is the probability that this "God" exists, what is very evident is that "God" is the excuse that somehow sets you free from the problems that we ourselves create with out without God, and this is as obvious as an orange is orange.
  
  Even if someone were able to prove that God did exist with infallible evidence, the other religion would call it a lie. I think the thread starter here wants to prove that people need Jesus Christ because people are unable to be obedient or acceptable moral human being without him and in which case you can take your sorry butt straight to hell if you don't take J.C.
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  maestrowhitposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can't tell if you're taking the standpoint of an Atheist or a Christian. Care to clarify? Also, you're essentially asking me why God created human kind. Do you have an answer to your own question? The reason God made anything was for His, and our, pleasure.
  
  I agree with you that God is not evident to a lot of people. One reason for that is that so many influential people describe God incorrectly. Those people don't know God. It's gotten to the point where if you use the word God, most people hearing it associate it with an idea that in no way resembles what God really is. I wish I had a better word to use, but as of yet, I do not. You sound angry, and I think you have a good reason to be, but not at me. I'm one of the good guys. It's ok with me that you think I'm using God as some kind of excuse. Think what you want. I don't know how to address that.
  
  To you I would say that even though I believe in God and you don't, we are both equal. Neither of us is more right than the other. We are both doing what is right, believing what is right, and feeling what is right. Even those creeps that speak falsely about God are doing His will. It's all on purpose, nothing is accidental, and it all comes from one source. You can call it whatever you want, you can even say it's more than one source if you want; I call it God. But that's just me. You're just as right as i am.
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"Even those creeps that speak falsely about God are doing His will. It's all on purpose, nothing is accidental, and it all comes from one source." By Jove I think you got it. For all of us who wonder why monotheists are never wrong - there it is. And even for me It's nice to know that I can do no wrong. Imagine that, every crime ever committed was committed in the purpose of God.
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  maestrowhitposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is exactly what I'm saying. You nailed it.
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"Imagine that, every crime ever committed was committed in the purpose of God." Well then there is no sin, no devil, no need for religion or christ. There is no blame and we get to do whatever we want. Let's party.
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  maestrowhitposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We are all already doing whatever we want. Sometimes we party, sometimes we don't. There does exist what the Bible calls sin and the Devil, and all the blame goes to God, from whom everything comes- good and evil.
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your silly, God does not allow you to commit crimes in the purpose of God that would be Satan and in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah they did party and look what happened.
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure if you're being ignored or not, but I'll do my part to extend a little inclusive hospitality.
  
  The idea that life is just a party is rather juvenile and unreal.
  
  The life Christ expects His People to live is one of purpose, accountability and reconciliation. That's the message that we should live before all.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If that is the message then how come Christains don't take responsibility for thier actions or do they try to reconcile thier differences?
  
  It's an honest question, no sarcasim or anything like.
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sandra, Can you ask an easier question? One that makes everyone look good, especially me.:
  
  I'll reduce it to one verse from Scripture, Proverbs 13:10, "Only by Pride comes contention."
  
  All unaccountability and unreconciled relationships are the result of pride on the part of at least one side of the relationship.
  
  And pride is the result of not wanting to recognize a standard outside themselves or their group.
  
  Recognizing a standard is not the problem, but recognizing a standard which universally applies to all.
  
  Thus, the problems associated with two people trying to hold each other accountable or reconcile using different standards. It's difficult and contentious, at best.
  
  Thus the problems "Christians" have are no different. Even though they proclaim their allegiance to Christ and His Word, pride (of various stripes) prevents them from actually living the Words of Christ in the Bible.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol, I wonder why not take up the gauntlet on your fellow christian followers instead of those who oppose it.
  
  It would make more sense for a "genuin" believer to set his own people straight before attempting to get those who oppose to reconsider their possition?
  
  I don't see any fruite in getting a person to worship this ever merciful God by demanding false respect or love from them. It just does not make sense.
  
  I can be pretty certian that you understand the question I present.
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
Still - think it makes you redundant, sort of like driftwood. What did Poe call it, 'a dream within a dream'.
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sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
Here is my question for the day.

If there is a God, do you think he would be happier with a person who delights and respects all of the things that come in nature, ready to explore, examine, question and live in awe at what a "wonderful" universe it actually is in which we do live in,

or

do you think this God would be happier with people bowing down to worship him knowing they cannot see nore hear him, neglecting the things which he made and found good for whatever reason, while destroying them in his very name in which they were created and then asking for forgiveness?
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sandra,
  God, According to the Bible. God created man to worship Him in person and gave to man the authority to oversee the created Earth. Man chose to abandon that mission. God didn't. Therefore God made provision for man to experience what God had originally planned, but not immediately. Forgiveness for their willingness to rebel against what God orignally created them for was necessary. God made provision for that forgiveness Himself. Why? Because His original Plan was never abandoned. God originally planned for Man to rule His creation with Him.
  Man has always possessed the ability to choose God and His Plan or Reject Him.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't ask for a sunday school lesson, the question was which one would be better.
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sandra, my answer was not an either-or choice between the two you offered. It was a combination of the two, therefore the "Sunday School" lesson.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I will take it as you cannot answer the question.
  
  I also asked once a while ago, who is more important, people or God? Most people wont answer that one either.
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  Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sandra, you posed an honest question. I gave an honest answer.
  
  John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish."
  
  Would I give my life for you or someone else on this forum? I don't know. I would like to think so but I can't unequivocally say that I would.
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  Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We can worship God without neglecting all of the things that come in nature that He gave us. In fact we are worshiping God by recognizing that He gave us all of the things that come in nature.
  
  So both.
  
  God
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  allshookupposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If we worship God, then those things about appreciating people and nature come along with that. And yes, the answer is God is more important. I would lay down my life for Him. He did the same for me.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  really? I would die for you, but I know you would not do the same for me because I don't believe in your God.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do not know God- so you really dont know.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  bowing down to worship him knowing they cannot see nore hear him
  You can see and hear him.I am a poet I know.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If there is a God, do you think he would be happier with a person who delights and respects all of the things that come in nature, ready to explore, examine, question and live in awe at what a "wonderful" universe it actually is in which we do live in,
  
  or
  
  do you think this God would be happier with people bowing down to worship him knowing they cannot see nore hear him, neglecting the things which he made and found good for whatever reason, while destroying them in his very name in which they were created and then asking for forgiveness?
  
  God is in all so by respecting all things you are respecting and bowing to him. You are just too lost right now.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can hardely believe you statements because so far you lack a lot of respect for me. Unless you mean, I am not from God.
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
Good One. Happy lobster whatever.
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Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago
The descriptions of Hell that I've read often sound exactly like how a fundamentalist Christian would write about a really good bonfire party.

So I often find myself thinking, hmmm, harps, discretion, low respectful voices and endless choir music or an eternal bonefire party.

Kind of a no brainer.
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  countrywomenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  WOW!! You make hell sound like a party place.
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Thinkaboutit77posted 15 years ago
It's not wise or logical to call oneself an "atheist" because the word atheist means "no God".

But you can not PROVE a universal negative which atheism is, unless you have all the knowledge of the universe. I think Atheism is built on pride because Atheists (though sincere and usually very well mannered) are assuming they have all the knowledge in the universe to say FOR SURE that there is no God.

Atheism is just another word for "pride" and pride is how Lucifer fell in the Bible. He said in his heart, "there is no God" but because that leaves a vacuum, Lucifer filled that vacuum and said to himself "there is no God but myself" and that's what led to his downfall.

Atheists today basically say the same thing. They say "there's no God but mankind" and that philosophy then leads to "there's no God but strong mankind, those that have evolved better than others" and that ultimately leads to the devaluaing of human life and ethnic cleansing and inhumane experiments on the weak, poor and those considered "not normal or different".

The other name for unbelief is Agnostics. But Agnostic in latin means "ignoramus" .

Either way, with all due respect, to be an Atheist or an Agnostic is to be a fool. This is exactly why God says, only "the fool says in his heart, there is no God" (Psalm 14:1).
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do realize everyone can see this - and the exact same stuff you posted on the other thread?
  
  Interesting how many of you will resort to outright lies to get your point across.
  
  I would have though god would be upset at that.
  
  No?
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mightyoneposted 15 years ago
I don't think we have any proof except what is written and our belief in what's written.

mighty
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