Religion. Who really needs it?

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   mischeviousmeposted 13 years ago

   Do people join religions just to be part of the in crowd, or do they honestly feel lost? Is it really that important to be better in belief than others? And if it is not so. Why?

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      autumn18posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think most people of religion are born into it and grow up practicing it. The ones that weren't born into it or pick a different religion have their reasons. Some might want to fit in and some might think it will help them become better people. I don't know why people would need to feel better in their beliefs.

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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I'm still struggling to figure out the workings of men and religion is the toughest nut to crack. I have tried telling people not to fight over it, but the rightious indignation thing keeps popping up. If this is the way of religion, I have washed my hands for they do not wish to "see".

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      kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It iis simple really..
      People look for purpose and religion offers it.
      
      Yes the best the offer is half answers,
      so it just a matter of which of these half answers you prefer... Until...
      
      
      You see the Whole ...
      The whole is Life.

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      Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Everyone's needs are unique. We all ponder the question. Religion is one possible answer. One path. What leads each person in any direction is a combination of parental guidance, reflection and personal experience.
      
      Why diss that path except to attempt to imply yours is a better path. It makes you sound like religion.

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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No. I am just musing basically. I want to figure it out for myself. How can one do this without the question?

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            Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It isn't the question that causes the raised eyebrow. It's the comments. You've 'washed your hands of those who don't wish to see'? See what? What you see? It sounds as if you are refusing to see what they see also. Why assume your conclusions are better than theirs? It appears as if your stance is that your philosophy is better than theirs. Pot-kettle thing going.
            
            You say 'when truth is offered they only turn away'. That's pretty arrogant. Your truth? What of their perception of truth?
            
            It's always fun to think we know something, but that is your illusion.

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               mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I've washed my hands of trying. I noticed my behavior and am attempting to move on. I must readjust my way of seeing, so that I can be more open to it. I never said I wasn't human. That is part of the path, mistakes.

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                  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  K. By my perception you've made a few missteps in this thread. We can only find what we perceive as truth and accept that others search just as diligently. Their conclusions are no less valid than our own, until those conclusions are assumed to be universal truth. Without proof, ego is all that fills the gaps.

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                     mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes. I have a shade over my true eyes that keeps them from seeing the truth of other's. This is true for most people and it creates social outcasts, which can be a shame. Unless one chooses to be an outcast, in which case I can say nothing.

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                        Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        One always chooses their own path. You can't blame others for decisions made by yourself.

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                           mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           As I have been saying. What we think we know, only separates us from the reality that we are and we all share the view. The view is different, but it is the same and none can agree on it. That is ego.

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                              Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I would agree that we all view a piece of the landscape. What we see differs, but it is all connected.
                              
                              If you see the pointlessness of disagreement, why did you start this thread?

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                                 mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 To get people to think instead of judge. I don't judge anyone, only myself. In judging others, I judge myself and so on.

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                                    Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Your words appear to disagree with your previous posts, but....if you say so.

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                                       mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       We change constantly, that is the nature of nature, constant change. We either change for the better or for the worse. I am simply trying to be in the now, for now is all there is. It is truly hard to understand the now and we grope at all sorts of ideas, but the question remains. Is it really so important?

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                                          Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          I know you are attempting to sound profound, but what you are really saying is that you don't see a problem with contradicting yourself repeatedly. In the same thread.
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          I agree, but contradicting yourself in the same thread is still a problem.
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          Again, your attempt at being philosophical doesn't work when you are presenting contradictory statements. It appears more that you are attempting to weasel out of taking responsibility for statements made.
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          The now is of some importance when attempting to communicate with others. So is the then. What you say must follow a logical progression if others are to follow your train of thought. Bouncing around from one side to the other leaves us in the position of watching a ping pong match. Not having a purposeful discussion.

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                                             mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             I agree with you. I, in my humanity, am stumbling over words. It is hard to impart ideas to others and getting through the ego makes it hard, it confuses the language.

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                                                Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                That, I fully understand and agree with.

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                                                   mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                   What is your take on the matters of things? I mean without ego speaking, leaving out belief and religion. How do you see the condition we are in? In other words. By condition, I am saying the psychosis of it. What does it mean to you?

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                                                      Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                      You can't leave belief out, even though I'm only speculating. My current theory is that the now is...as you've said. We can't see the perpetual now due to the linear nature of time which is reality as we know it. I assume that the beginning spoken of in religious texts may be the inception of the concept of time. It would explain the difference in the calculations by some of the religious and science. I'm a firm believer in the premise that everyone may be a little bit right.
                                                      
                                                      I assume our unique timeline is one of the ripples in eternity. It is slowly expanding, like a ripple on a pond and our perception of the age of the reality we live in will continue to grow as we peer further and further into the reality as defined by the universe. It's already started. People are claiming reality had no beginning or end.
                                                      
                                                      I think, the trick to understanding the spiritual will be unraveling how time exists and being able to view things outside of time. 
                                                      
                                                      Crazy. Of course. That's my current theory.

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                                                         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                         And it is a cool view. I respect it and so should others, though many may disagree, it is a form of truth. Even if in concept. We should share eachother's minds, not seek to tear them down and make them useless to us, for we are all the same in this manner.

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      phillippeengelposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      There is no bias involved when choosing religions, unless if the people are forced to believe in a particular religion.
      
      A person chooses a religion that suits his own personal beliefs, and that is a very nebulous topic to expound about.
      
      If a person does have faith in a religion, they have it not because of wanting to be part of a community, but because they choose to. It's their own free will.
      
      Anyway, there is no need to feel so troubled about this if the government of your country governs with meritocracy in mind.

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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         To be amongst the worldly, is to ostracise the individual. Religion has become very worldly and, to me, it is a shame.

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            phillippeengelposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            When a religion becomes global, it will indirectly dominate the world.

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      wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      All that you mentioned above is in play, and you can include many other human characteristics such as security and feeling right above what you say to others; especially if opposing them or when interjecting thoughts into a group discussion. All have sinned and fallen short of God. But the main issue is one's personal relationship with God, and this leaves us out of the One's life.
      
      If One's God is a large tree, than he shall get a "tree God" reward. If your God is self, than you shall get a "self God" reward. Good luck.

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         Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Make something up big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.

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            WhoBeYouBeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            And that is exactly what the American Left and Mass Media have been doing for 100 years.
            
            And damn, it worked perfect.

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               Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hitler did it too , he was very impress on how America conqueror created the greatest genocide ever in human history
               
               The American Native

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                  WhoBeYouBeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, he was.
                  
                  You do know that Hitler's "race laws" came verbatim from the California State Laws in existence then.
                  
                  I would suggest a book by, Robert Gallately, "The Age Of Social Catastrophe".
                  
                  It is a very well researched and penned exegesis of the age of Marxian evil in the 20th century.
                  
                  http://www.amazon.com/Lenin-Stalin-Hitl … 1400040051

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                     Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Hitler was born and died a Catholic and atheist did not rule very long

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            wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sure, add that into the pot also, and a void remains.

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      2. 61

         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Nothing is superior to another, it's all one thing. It's all part of here and now, so then, we are but at it's mercy. Any moment now a brick could stryke me dead, I am already resigned to my death and I am not afraid.

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      jhonrudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted
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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That's kind of a generalized statement. I was born into a multi religious background and my parents had me study as many religions as they knew about. I was, as I am, not part of religion. I am part of everything and so is everyone else. I am you because I have observed you, maybe not in person and I realy don't need to talk to or see you to be that same part. As surely as I look up, you see the same moon.

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      Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Humans are social animals and we all have a need to belong to a tribe.
      
      We all find our own way to belong.  For some people family is enough.  Others belong to a tribe with a common interest - for me it's dancing, for another it might be vintage cars.  Some people find their tribe in religion.
      
      I notice, too, that many people find religion after a traumatic loss. When your world falls apart, you need something to cling on to, to make life worth living again, and religion often fills that void for people.

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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I cannot have religion and I cannot have science or atheism. I am just an observer and that's all I have, my obseravation. I have been in the deepest depths of suffering and at the highest pinnacles of bliss and I am at peace with both.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That's great. Not many people have a strong enough self-esteem to survive alone, without the support of being in a tribe.

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               mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               It took me many years to reach my enlightenment and even I have to let that go, in order to better convey and share my mind with others.

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                  wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Each need a Savior for most of the time we can not save ourselfs from the depravities of life, and the Observer has no hope. Christians have that hope in Jesus.

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                     mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I had to give up being happy forever, to be happy in life. I am happy sharing my mind with others and then, I am only sharing with my self which is in others. I give up my enlightenment every moment, so that I may see it as it truly is, this universe. This universe is a moment and I am glad to be part of it.

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                        wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Well, you sound as if you are happy to be alive. Hope no tragedy happen to you.

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                           mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Whatever happens, I must accept it.

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   ediggityposted 13 years ago

   There is no "nut to crack".  Your quandary is that of the blind.  How can you "see" what you truly do not know.  Do not be concerned with others, you can only take responsibility for your own actions. 

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      mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I walk a path I have laid out for myself and the world of men has only confused me along the way. When truth is offered, they only turn it away and I feel bad for them. I have said time and again, the belief is beautiful, but the now is grand, yet they choose to live the illusion of mind. They think they know everyhting and they define themselve's by the past. What kind of life is that?

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         ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe one should walk another path, a path that leads to greater contribution than satisfying one self.  If ones mind is for there, one might achieve and be here, only to obtain another there.  It is a life of humbleness and faith.

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   Religion. Who really needs it?
   
   
   Everybody needs religion

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      mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Why?

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Religion is following a path to the purpose of life; planning it; without it one would be wayward; one won't achieve anything in life.

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            Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I've achieve many wonderful and beautiful things in life without Religion and many great men/women in history too. Is that written in your book, to be so?

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               paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You might have.

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   mystiquedozposted 13 years ago

   I think that religion should be a choice. It should not be something to be forced into. Each person should evaulate why they want to joined a particular religion and what viewpoints does the religion have to relates to how they live their life.

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      A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Great idea. Unfortunately, religions don't work that way, if they did, they would soon disappear. Religions are set up to indoctrinate children, conversions only represent a very tiny fraction of the flock.

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         mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I agree, for there is no contesting that which we will never understand. We must each be ourselve's, while being mindful of others.

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   formosangirlposted 13 years ago

   I am a SGI Nichiren Daishonin Buddhist. Part of our practice is to practice with others. It is much easier to practice by yourself but you learn from others and you also help them sometimes by being there and brainstorm situations. It is not an ego that some know more than others. It's a gift that they get the message and can put it in today's example to share with others. I have seen a carpenter and a MBA student who have really impressed me with their knowledge. It is not an ego trip because when they explain it to others, we all benefit. And as long as the message gets across, we all benefit.
   
   I saw a show that those who are religious may have a part of their brain that can experience the benefit of prayer. Once I was suffering in life and chanting for 6-7 hours daily. I don't chant that much any more but I remember that I was a different person afterward, separating my being from the negative emotions. I ha a tremendous breakthrough which is why I am always a believer in faith, even if for 16 years my practice have not been extraordinary.
   
   Starting in 2012, I return to practice consistently. It will be a great 2012.

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      mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am seeking to overcome my suffering. So in talking to others, I am refining my idea of life and the other people in it. I agree with everyone, but I've no idea why. There is something deep inside myself I cannot put into words and it is frustrating. I've tried quieting my mind, I've tried talking about it and it is driving me in circles. I see myself in others always and it confounds me at every turn. I've studied almost all of the worlds religions looking for it and it has only gotten me lost, my own path has been obscured and it is very lonely.

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         formosangirlposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Have you tried chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo for an hour to see how you feel? It is one thing to say that you try to quiet your mind. It's another to be able to do it. Some have such concentrated chant that it would not take them 6-7 hours, but I too have wandering daily distraction. Perfect example, what should I eat for dinner? What should we do over the weekend? The house is a pit? So, for my birthday, I did a 2 hour stretch, and I could not say that I had a good concentrated 10 minutes. However, it is a method to quiet the mind, because I have felt it. The peace is just incredible. None of the mundane daily crap can penetrate that peace, which is why I have been with this religion since 1993. I have received so many benefits (breakthroughs in life) that even when I scarcely have good quality chant, I know that I am cheating myself to the potentiality of enlightenment.
         
         Keep the seeking spirit alive. Last month, I was intrigued about the whole Jesus in India. For the first time, I even took an interest in Jesus's life. I have a general interest in the history of Western religion, but not Jesus. Did it make me less of a Buddhist? Through many hours of studying BBC programs, etc., I am a first believer that Jesus studied Buddhism, and it assured me that I am doing the right thing.
         
         I am sorry that you have not found peace with any religion. It is a very personal search.

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            mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Om tari tara tori to tari swa.

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               wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               How about putting the world behind you, and talk only with God. Jesus died so that you can do just that. Believe it or not! The world is temporal; you are going to die.
               
               If God put you here once does it make sense that God can do it again. Anything that I have done I can do it again and I am only human.
               
               Travel with Jesus toward the glorious light of God and into eternity. Your mind is superior to your body and the world.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  To forgive is divine, to sacrifice is Godly. I understand that much, the rest is but opinion.

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                     wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Missing most of your bennies in life.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Amazing, any opportunity to evangelize and believers jump on it.

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                     wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Truth is truth. I am hopping on anything that I perceive as truth.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        These forums are not here for you to evangelize your religion.

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                           wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           "Religion,...?", why not? Explaining religion is definitely appropriate.

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         wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Your "now" belief seem to parallel that of a Determinist that all has been predetermined, and we are only confirming our lives. To a greater degree, I do agree with your "Now" belief or that it is the reality of all things.
         
         "Be still and know that I am God."

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            mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            As a philosopher, I am not afforded the beliefe of religion, only the outside view of it. Like a psycho-analyst, I can only view it from an unbiased angle.

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               wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Philosoph does vary. You appear to be a new age philosopher without any absolutes, only relative values without an answer,only what's best for the moment, situational ethics. The only problem is that 99.99% of the people on Earth are not happy with most of the moments that they live. Living in the "now" would sound like a prison sentence to them.
               
               Without absolutes the individual is subjected to the whims of the public and is subservient to the powers that be without defense for self.
               
               Any casual observer must also have a place to stand in order to view the occurances.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It's my true enlightenment. I've looked at it for so long that I realized it was simple as being that which I observe. We are absolutely everything we are looking at, all of the time in every moment. There are an infinite number of moments and the only thing that changes, is the observer.

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   Claire Evansposted 13 years ago

   I think there are two reasons why people join religions: just in case there is a hell, to get rewards in heaven or a genuine love for God of whatever religion it pertains.

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      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      1000 genuine ways to love God, why not?
      
      Why all the fighting and putting down other Gods?

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         Claire Evansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         True.  You made me think.  I shouldn't have said genuine.  The true God is the Father of Jesus Christ.

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   shotterposted 13 years ago

   I like your idea.. brilliant.

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   WhoBeYouBeposted 13 years ago

   What makes you thonk you need to be lost to seek God or to know God?
   
   I choose to know god and ask for his assistance each day.
   
   As is everyones perogative... free will, free choice.

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      Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      WhoBeYouBe
      
      Welcome to the Forum
      
      Hell or be saved by Jesus, very nice choice of free will

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         WhoBeYouBeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you, Castle.
         
         I will say that hell was never in my mind as to knowing God.
         
         I choose to know God, and He waited until I was ready to seek Him.
         
         I have never felt threatened into my beliefs.

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      mischeviousmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      In our deepest moments of losing the self, we see clearly that which we refused to see, The now. When I am angry I am in the now. When I am insane, I am in the now. If I can see past the things I want to feel, I can act accordingly as an adult.

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   Muldaniaposted 13 years ago

   Religion is obviously needed, or it would have disappeared.  In moments of grief, it is especialy a comfort to those who believe in it.  People need there to be some purpose to life, other than the one we have created ourselves, and gods offer that hope.

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    missrosajaraposted 13 years ago

    Nobody.

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