The "Come Argue With Me About Religion" Thread.
Ditto. Sorry I couldn't be more eloquent on my own, but that pretty much covers it for me.
Just so you know. Most atheists get offended when religionists tell them that not believing nonsense about Invisible Super Beings is a "religion."
Interesting that some of your personal beliefs clash so drastically with what the bible teaches. How on earth do you reconcile the two?
Where does the bible teach you to home school your children? Surely this is simply so you can indoctrinate them into your own irrational belief system?
Being open minded means you're willing to entertain ideas and concepts but not necessarily accept them.
That's not really being open minded because you already have accepted the concept of gods (or whatever higher power). You would need to exclude science from your statement as it has nothing to do with any of those other ideas.
That's highly unfortunate considering the bible does not promote or teach morals and ethics.
It would appear you've been indoctrinated into Christianity, which would mean neither closed or open minded, but actually not using your mind at all.Thank you for the resume and the personal ackalades.
exceptional work!
we are what we are melissa, no view is correct. complete or the best.
it is just our's to live and die with...alone.Hi there
I dont think my views are any better than yours or anyone elses,but I explain what/how they work for me if someone asks or challenges.
I also enjoy interacting with people and until they start sounding ... well stupid it can be really fun ,ocassionally inspiring.I don't think mine are either, you see there was this other thread and... *sighs*
I agree with your viewpoint. Eaglekiwi. That's kind of what I was getting at in the beginning
I don't quote the bible because it has no meaning to anyone but Christians. Discussions should probably be held in the same language... or at least as close as possible.
Thank you again for the watchtower link, this is the second time you've posted it to me. I have examined JW over the years and have found that it doesn't ring true to me. Thank you though.
I'm also not sure it is possible for God to have religious beliefs, but that is semantics. As far as organization, I'm not sure I've ever heard the christian god discribed as organized, thats an interesting assumption
I am only slightly offended at the get to know him for real statement... but it does seem to imply that you know him better than me. I assume that we are both equally ignorant in our knowledge of our own religion
I don't believe in a god so I guess you would call me an atheist. A word which is a religious construct.
One needs only to have not been exposed to religion and indoctrinated.
To believe that the sexist ramblings of a few goat herders who wrote repeats of repeated stories that have been with us since men believed in ra has anything to do with anything other than money and power to control the gullible is plain foolish in my view.Not in America Earnest. Here Atheism got it's foundation from a woman, who called herself an Atheist and started the Atheist organization. So in America, that statement doesn't apply. It wasn't a religious construct. She even branded the word as their motto. She was not only the founder, but, it's president for a long, long, long time. Then she got sick, and needless to say on her death bed she found GOD. I always thought that way sooooo ironic. I was like, are you kidding me??? That would be comparable to something like my hero, famed, smut peddler, Larry Flynt becoming a Republican.
- Emile Rposted 13 years ago
0 I don't argue about religion. I point out the obvious actions that dictate religion is a farce and that people are blinded to their own actions.
OK - Nothing about homeschooling then, Just indoctrination. So we agree. Little wonder your religion has caused so many wars.
Guess you missed the bit about women not preaching huh? And not accepting any other gods? And Jeebus coming to divide?Oh well. Like every one else - you ignore what it says and make your own stuff up.
"You are either with me - or against me." sed jeebus.Easy. I am not forced to lie to defend it. You quite clearly stated, and I quote:
And I asked where the bible instructed you to homeschool your children and you immediately veer off to claim some moral superiority. And you don't understand why this causes wars? Awww - do some more semantics.
Do you teach them that homosexuality is wrong along with trying to damage their ability to reason by filling their heads with nonsense about creationism being "science"?
This is child abuse. So - this is why my non-religion is better than your religion. I have morals and ethics which I developed myself based on sound reasoning and respect for others. You cannot do this and need to selectively get yours from the bible and then teach your children that they will burn in hell if they do not follow Jesus and start fights like this.
It's easy to separate them, one is fantasy, the other reality, one exists while the other does not.
It's like saying Christians don't understand the atom because they believe in the bible. If you had a thought process, you would understand atoms, not believe in them.
The bible? Sorry, but the bible does not promote morals or ethics, it threatens you. And, we can post one quote after another that shows no moral or ethics of any kind, things that you would never do even though the bible threatens you to do them.
So what? Do you actually believe that originated from the bible? Are you saying you would be killing people if you didn't read that from the bible?
Now you are contradicting yourself. You just said they are universal, so how can they be subjective?
Really? Do these sound like the morally and ethically right things to do?
"Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.' Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NLT)
"The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 13:16 NLT)
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
Sorry, but it is quite evident you did no such thing.
Yeah sure, you looked at all the religions of the world and chose Christianity. Your posts would indicate quite substantially you are a blind follower, like many others here.Oh, I see, you believe everything you hear as opposed to doing the research yourself in order to gain an understanding. In other words, we could say anything we wanted in regards to the characteristics and properties of atoms and you would believe it without understanding any of it?
Really? And, what things does religion explain?
Same here, but the followers of the bible feel compelled to constantly threaten everyone else with it's contents.
Surely, you're joking.
Morals are the result of evolution as is our instinct to survive. No gods were required.
But, they are in the bible, and you are commanded to follow the bible or else you're a hypocrite for choosing one thing and not another.
I can only go by your posts which are evident that you don't question anything, you simply believe what you hear based on your religious indoctrination.
Then something is very wrong with the thought processes...very wrong.
I fail to see the justification for your conclusion.
Thank you for asking
Actually I chose Christianity because I felt that Jesus was a pretty good role model for the traits that I aspire to. I would like to heal the sick, help children and forgive the people that have hurt me. I find comfort in the idea of an afterlife and like to believe that I would be able to make the ultimate sacrifice if it could save someone else that I care about.
The actual wording of the bible means very little to me, except that sometimes I find certain passages inspirational. Those that can judge an entire book based on a paragraph they disliked confuse me.
- You're welcome
@earnestshub
“I don't believe in a god so I guess you would call me an atheist. A word which is a religious construct.”
Duly noted… I shall use “non-religious” instead.
Thank you, that would be much more accurate.
“One needs only to have not been exposed to religion and indoctrinated”
I’m not sure I accept religious ignorance as a foundation for superiority. Generally, non exposure to a subject leads to ignorance on that topic. I would have accepted “an educated choice to avoid formalized religion based on a comparative study of theology.”
Much better wording, thank you.
To believe that the sexist ramblings of a few goat herders who wrote repeats of repeated stories that have been with us since men believed in ra has anything to do with anything other than money and power to control the gullible is plain foolish in my view.
However old those stories are, they in no way predate a belief in nothing. When your ancestors climbed down from the trees, they too didn’t believe in God. The trees probably didn’t believe in God either. So yeah, my goat herders trump your monkeys.
How would you assume your goat herders "trump" my monkeys? And why would anyone believe that a tree would believe in a god?
But seriously, your argument is an example of poisoning the well. The source of a belief neither ads credence nor detracts from the credibility of the belief.
I can't agree here.
Source is most important when establishing credibility, as is track record.
I.E. just because you believe the same thing as Michael Jackson doesn’t mean you molest children. Nor do the flaws of any believer apply to the belief itself.
If the source of that belief threatens others, makes itself better than others as does the christian belief, then it's time to look at the belief itself.
And Ra was a pretty awesome God.
ra is still awesome, but was never a god any more than the psychotic ones in the quoran and bible are. Nor did ra rule over all like the biblical god also claims.
ra was one of the first boogyman gods used to control the ignorant and gullible of the time, who could with few exceptions, (church leaders in the main) neither read nor write.
Sitting ducks!
Start with fear and you end up with hate.Do ya love, love love that she thinks non belief in majik is a religion, 21 days? LOLOLO No wonder u cause so many wars in the 800 years u will live.
She is no different than you Marcus.
you just prefer the Potter calling the kettle Sirius Black.
I am a left wing secular humanist (atheist, whatever the hell folks call heathens nowadays). Believe what you wish, but remember that there are folks out there, like me, that think it's all complete bollocks.
I don't really call you guys anything... but apparently the term is non-religious. Next week it will be Atheistic American or somesuch.
And I know and accept that
Melissa,
My religious views aren't "better" than yours. In fact, they're probably pretty close to yours.
I'm not the churchgoing type, but the church that I don't go to is a Unitarian one.
As I always say, there's nothing we Unitarians can't do if we really aren't sure just what the heck it is that we believe in.-
Well, I have to say; I have never had an urge to enter a church but if I was going to go to one it would be a UU church. You make it sound like a cool place.
Humans may think/behave illogically, irrationally or even idiotically, but nature does not. Good and bad are subjective and a human construct. By irrational I meant contradictory. A human can say contradictory stuff, but nature never act contradictory. Say, the relativist say 'nothing' suddenly got length , width and height to become 'something'. But nothing can never suddenly do that. That is 'irrational'. Religions say god waved his magic wand, magic- nothing is suddenly converted to something. Nobody in human history can explain such a feat, nor anybody has seen it. It is supernatural and a past event. And past events can only be explained rationally. In nature there is nothing irrational or supernatural.
In most cases religion usurp that role. There are norms in every society, including insect societies. In humans, priest took over as arbiters for their own good
So if your child died of an accident or from a disease you will kill your god?
Being tempted and doing it is entirely different. So many innocent persons think they can kill without a qualm, but give a pistol they will back away. Just ask anybody, who haven't killed even an animal, to kill a chicken(let alone human), most people will back away, no belief in god needed!!
- Motown2Chitownposted 13 years ago0
Just popping in to disagree with everyone as the title of the post suggests.
Other than that, wishing you all peace!I disagree with you, Motown! I think you came here mostly to agree!
You are mistaken, shogan. I did indeed come to disagree with anyone being disagreeable. YOU are being disagreeable and so I disagree with you.
shogan, I think you need to check your facts. This whole thread is about arguing, did you not pay attention? Really, if I hadn't come to argue, why would I even be here?
*Bows* Thank you ever so much. I'm getting this forum stuff DOWN!
I'm watching you two
You both are going to a bad place where the tortures of monotony go hand in hand with having to live the same scenario over and over with no change or hope for an ending...
Oh wait... You're here already...
Sorry, Melissa. Just had to jump in and have the standard forum disagreement and I thought this would be the place for it today!
Carry on, my friend. You're doing quite well, btw.
I'm sorry, but this thread is clearly about arguing, which is very clearly about contradiction, therefore, if I'm being clearly contradictory, then I'm clearly arguing.
Have I made myself clear?Unlike most posters, I take time to formulate my clever and witty responses. I agree with you that Socrates was indeed a cat if you use that sort of logic, but my logic is so much more circular (and I don't believe you can contradict that) that I would rather say that Socrates was philosophically a much greater cat than the other cats who die. Therefore:
All cats die.
Socrates died.
Therefore Socrates was a lion.
Do you see what it is I'm trying to say?
- Sherlock221bposted 13 years ago0
There is no argument.
It's all very simple.
Once upon a time god made himself, then he made mankind, then he killed them all because they were no good, then he came back as his own son and killed himself.
There ya go, a quick summary of the book that must be god's word cos it says so.I wish there was a way to bite people over the internet
"Once there was nothing,then it exploded" ~The scientific story of the universe.
We are traveling on a disc carried by elephants sitting on the back of a turtle flying through space ~Terry Pratchett's story of the universe
“The creator of the universe works in mysterious ways. But he uses a base ten counting system and likes round numbers.” Scott Adams I like this one best
I enjoy some science ,and when my sons went through school right up to High School ,as a good mum ,I kept my self interested ( to make sure they completed assignments)
but for me personally ,there are some topics that dont interest me a lot.
(Specially now they are in their 20s talkin all about Physics???-Help, lol nah its all good)
I mean these are kids who still ask me how long does it take to boil an egg and I think so long as people learn...tis better than remaining closed.
Hate sounding sexist ,but it is more of a guy thing -dont ya think?
I try Earnest ,truly I do ,haha,but for example if a documentary comes on TV ,Im good for 10mins ,then I start thinking should I paint my toenails bronze or hot pink?I get bored easily too, but not with documentaries usually.
Krauss is anything but boring, thus all the awards.
Oh! No. That is only regarding the creation part. I have so many reasons to disagree with religion.
I should've been more specific. When I said nature it only meant the matter that made up nature.
I had given the examples. Creation in any form is contradiction. saying gravity can push is a contradiction. Matter suddenly ceasing to exist is a contradiction. Telling space has dimension is similar.
There you are.
Existence exist by definition. See you don't prove your chair exist or your right hand exist. You just show it. Or just try proving the existence of your right hand. Similarly if god exists, exist by the definition of the word exist. You don't believe or not believe existence, that is irrational.
Humans can be ruled as long as you don't change the existing order drastically. If you read "the Prince", this is beautifully elaborated with examples. (that is the shortest book I can recommend.) That's why in law such emotional actions carry less severe punishment!!
You just try the experiment, it is you who will be disappointed. Only the first will be difficult, the subsequent ones will not be.
You will also find that this is the same in any societies, irrespective of it being human. See lions after a take over kill all the young ones, but they never kill their own young. The lioness in a pride look after the injured. All these are done without any religion. Cause of the superiority complex of man, he just call it 'instinct'. Any society, be it insects or reptiles or mammals, have a given set of rules. There is no religion. Only in man, the priests or religion took over it and manipulate for their advantage. The so called science(relativity), is no different. Humans as you said are basically irrational and illogical, as thinking or using the brain consumes the highest 'energy' and every living animal will try to use as less energy as possible. Fear of the unknown and indoctrination are the easiest tools for manipulation of humans. It was more so in ancient societies. The name of god itself was enough to make human do stuff that they normally do or not do.
Have you ever questioned why you have emotions ,like love,sadness,pain,joy,etc?
Where did they come from ?
The power to reason etc. The minds process in making a decision for example.
Who wired you so intricately who designed the bodies auto immune system?
I think it takes more faith to believe in Atheism that it takes to believe in Jesus Christ...It's called, evolution.
And, it takes faith to believe in Jesus and thinking to understand atheism and evolution.I am interested in hearing how an what brings some people to the conclusion they do.
Support my faith ? lol now why would you think somehow it would ...
Dont assume to analyse me getitrite ,just answer the bloody questionWow..you must have some seriously interesting conversations with just yourself.
First you ask me a question -then you dont -then you do -then you answer it yourself,and justify why you have answered the question intended for meWould that be like praying to imaginary Jesus?
But I did answer the question truthfully...because due to your rigid indoctrination, you cannot answer your own questions honestly, and have to resort to fraudulent primitive fairytales to explain a reality you know very little about.
Just be honest, and state that "you don't know!"
Those are questions that require you take the time to understand evolution, but I know you won't bother. Instead, you will deny or ignore anything anyone writes about it here and continue to fabricate stories based on your belief system and lack of critical thinking skills.
And, the only reason you ask those questions is to detract away from others calling you on your fabricated stories.Not really, it's based on facts and observation of your posts. We've been down that road many times already and you've been caught red handed fabricating stories and ignoring or denying what others offered you in the form of understanding.
Well I hail from middle earth and I can tell you I am willing to disagree right there -my neighbours were indeed Hobbits
Why are you on the defence ?
Thing is I already know why I believe the way I do ( most of the time)...
I dont need to skirt around the topic. My questions were not unreasonable.
I just have always wondered if people didnt accept what I did ,then maybe ,just maybe they have another theory/thought ,insert here whatever word feels right...
And I will not resort to childish immature babble to try and sound intelligent
Hey thanks for taking the time to explain why you think the way you do and for providing some relevant links..
I respect your views( might not agree with them all)
A BIG welcome to Hubpages.
Buckle up and enjoy the forums. Can sometimes be quite the rollercoaster ride ,but something tells me you'll cope very well
- jomineposted 13 years ago0
Socrates was a lesbian and a cross dresser much like my good self.
Which explains his philosophical greatness, I'm sure!
-
You are sharp, on the mark and funny.
I on the other hand am sleep deprived and was not sure my humour was gonna make the leap over the pond.Why thank you, sir! Translating quite well, I promise - despite the distance and sleep deprivation.
Thank you. We will never get this argument going at this rate!
I know. I'm too much of a pacifist to argue anymore.
Can one ever be too much of a pacifist?
I believe in peace despite the evidence in the world to the contrary.Me too. And, I believe in love, love, love - despite the apparent lack of it. Honestly, I don't believe one can be too much of a pacifist. Peace and love seem a wonderful combination to me.
I think you need to check your facts. A rock can only be a fish because everyone knows that ostriches evolved from seahorses. Just because God said it doesn't make it true! Haven't you followed the developments of physics for the last sixteen minutes? Please speak to me when you've studied the Bible for your whole life and rejected it!
Until then, you have no authority.
No wonder your rocks cause so many wars.Clearly, you believe in rocks! You very words in the OP indicate that you want to start conflict. Sad.
Of course, you're the only one who believes in the right rocks. Little wonder there are so many wars.
Everyone knows that the Suptruept galaxy doesn't have intelligent life. But, then it's no wonder that you would believe their religious tripe, instead of reality. The Fllumpic race is nothing but a race of invisible magical super beings. Of course, a believer in the Ostrich would hold them up as being real.
I don't have to do what your God says. After all, everyone knows a rock is a fish.
earnest, the rocks are the worst. If we could all stay away from them, and simply worship the fish, we'd all be SO much better off.
Truce! You're so much fun, Melissa! Thanks for being such a good sport.How do you challenge them exactly?
Holy Crap! First Rockfish and now I find out that omnipotence comes with non-religion?
Hey Mo! No problem, I don't take all of this stuff all that seriously. If you can't laugh at yourself and your beliefs then you probably aren't all that comfortable with eitherAmen, sister! Or, right on for the less religiously inclined.
She sez shoving its beliefs.
U kint splain it - it just iz innit. Live n let live - cept fer burnin coz them int beleebin.
LOLOLOL Zat wot god sed?
Zat wot god sed innit?
No wonder ur religion is so hated. LOL
Dear me.
Interesting, djoutsider. You're so reasonable. I'm sorry, but you'll have to take your rational, reasonable thought processes elsewhere. We don't respond well to those in the religious forums.
Well said. I have come to understand something recently through discussion with an atheist on this very site. Neither you, nor I, with your respective disbelief or my belief can disprove or prove the existence of God. Therefore arguing the point is fruitless. If either of us tries to sell the other our speculation as fact, we're foolish.
If we are being honest, we can simply discuss toward a place of agreement. Since that isn't generally what happens, the coming to a place of understanding is what matters most.
Nice to meet someone who is of a similar mindset!Me too!
And, frankly, I don't care how cheesy it sounds.
So, dj, nice to meet you.
It's not really a matter of answering questions like those posed from eaglewiki, they just fall on deaf ears, anyways. A complete waste of time.
But, they do hold back humanity because they abhor humanity. We are nothing but worthless garbage to them, sinners in league with the devil, simply because we choose to think and they are indoctrinated to believe.
Gaining an understanding of the world we live in is the furthest thing from their beliefs and they will do everything in their power to make sure we don't gain understanding. Instead, they'll lobby to stop teaching evolution in schools and teach creationism instead, and that's just for starters.There is very little info on the profile, I read a hub as well that described your background.
OK, I found it a bit me me and boring, you went on about your religious name, you sounded religious and I should have read it properly and at least one more hub as well before passing judgment.
I have done that now, and offer my sincere apologies.
I can usually pick religious people by their language, but in your case it seems what I am seeing is remnants of your background finding it's way in to what you wrote in the first hub I read.
I see religion as dangerous to my life and the lives of those I love.
Gawd these guys are funny aren't they? Rebuttals?
So - you do care what they believe because you get a lot of flak for not believing the same nonsense.
Pointing out that their beliefs are nonsense is being reasonable. Their beliefs are irrational and illogical nonsense. You only need one word top understand why they cling to them.
Fear
Live forever in paradise after your rotten life is over? What a fantastic sales pitch. No responsibilities other than to repent your sins (or accept Jesus as Lord). Perfect getout. Which would be why most of them preach it and then go against exactly what they are preaching. Love thy neighbor? Sure - as long as they agree with your nonsensical beliefs.
Tell us about the 800 year old men again James.- Shut your mouth and stop this childish crap? How can I be a shame to atheist? Atheism is a lack of belief not a group of people like a religion. You have swallowed the theistic BS. You should be ashamed at how little you know yourself.
All I am doing is what the religionists are asking ask me to do. They say they are behaving in the manner they wish to be treated, then they go around speaking in a manner that suggests they are superior.
I have no issue what soever with a god. There is no god. I do have a problem with religionists running their mouths off telling me they have esoteric knowledge that I am too proud to admit exists and too rebellious and foolish to believe in. So - I return the favor as that is what they tell me they want.
See how using logic brings me to this conclusion? As you do not seem to understand what the word means.No - I am not "stooping to their level." I am holding up a mirror for them to see in the hopes they may decide to change their behavior. Oddly - it works sometimes. You must have a reading comprehension problem as well. Or are being deliberately obtuse. I suppose you were very religious at some point and kept some of the traits.
You will get over them eventually but - shouting at people and telling them you know better than they do what their motivations are and that they should change them to suit you is extremely Christian behavior.
How poorly you understand yourself. Religion does that to ya.And once again you tell me you know better than I do what I am doing.
I am not a "fellow atheist". You have swallowed the garbage about atheism being a sect of some kind. I just don't believe a god exists and you happen to not either.
But that you cannot see you are behaving exactly the way you are accusing me of. You are still a Christian doing what Christians do. You are being silly if you are ashamed because of something I am doing,. That is your religion telling you what to think. And I am certainly not going to be shamed in to changing for you. That rubbish doesn't work on me. I know exactly what I am doing and why. You disagree with my methodology. That is all.
Try a little introspection.
Happy 4th to you too!!
I don't mind answering questions, but Eaglewiki has asked the same questions over and over and has received replies to them over and over, yet continues to deny or ignore those answers, and when she can't respond to a post, she resorts to asking the same questions again.
It is obviously a ploy to detract away from answering questions herself.
Do you really see a point to answering those same questions over and over again and falling prey to that ploy?
BeezleDad
It's not really a matter of answering questions like those posed from eaglewiki, they just fall on deaf ears, anyways. A complete waste of time.
@ Beezledad -hmm... Not nice ,and its EAGLE K I W I baby ,Not Eaglewiki..or was that a subliminal message ? hehe...Sorry, Eaglekiwi, for getting your name wrong.
You know as well as I you ask those same questions over and over again simply as a ploy to detract from answering questions yourself. It isn't very nice of you to do that considering we answered your questions in earnest and sincerity only to find you have obviously ignored them.
So, why should continue to answer the same questions over and over again to you?Sadly that is your perception of me.
I am not a complicated person and I dont play head games.
I have no need. I never have understood why you accuse me of such things.
You have judged me harshly on several occasions simply because I didnt agree with you?
And no ,you have not always answered my questions ,but I dodnt resort to infering your'e dishonest or evasive.
I simply think you dont care to answer.
If I ask a question and receive an answer ,even one I may not agree with ,I certainly DO NOT disrespect the person who dignified me by replying with hostile mockery.
Not only is it immature ,but unnecessary.
By the way I never assume that everyone thinks alike either ,so perhaps you think your answer (although that has been like pulling teeth) is complete in itself. It hasnt been, but I accept you think it was.
Another thing ,education,status,race,creed,religion should have absolutely nothing to do with how people are treated.
One love for all I say
It's a simple belief really, if it's good ....... goddunnit, if it's bad ........ science or them darn heathens dunnit.
When you have been on the religious forums as long as Mark has you may become the same.
Mark used to provide sources from peer reviewed articles and scientific arguments that were never viewed or honestly refuted, but replied to with personal attacks, straight out lies and told he would rot in hell.
I don't blame him for replying in a way that seeks no approval.
I also agree that the kicked to bits stone aged myth is hardly a model to give our children of the future.
It is nonsense!This has nothing to do with the subject, Jerami.
Try to stick with the subject.
On a personal level,I cannot see the sense in the whole life cycle thing being so brief and final ,and my reasoning is ,if I think this ,if I query it ,then maybe ,just maybe Im meant to search for 'more purpose'...
In the meantime life happens ,and I have looked at reasons and answers from both sides of the fence.
I didnt always know Christ ,much less what was written in the bible...but curiousity and a growing dissatisfaction with 'self help' type advisors ,I checked out my spiritual side.
First and foremost I grew up knowing we are basically made up of three parts...spiritual/emotional/physical.
Im probably getting off track ,so will leave it there for nowhttp://creation.com/creation-magazine-articles
Oh it seems current issues can not be clicked on (they want you to buy them) but if you search their archives ,same topics come up)
My friend used to give me these magazines years ago ,and I didnt expect to be able to find them online -but here is the site.
Liked reading the magazines better,old habits die hard lol.
Im late replying because Ive been reading and burning dinner lol.
I will write more soon ,just didnt want you to think my delay was denial
Oh and going back past the 12 tribes ,um Im bit rusty ,but ok,Im listening.
Later.Can you explain your post? The language was very confusing, and I don't know exactly what point you're trying to make. Maybe I missed something?
if humanity started with 2 persons, who had 2,420 main personality traits, (infinite variations) then all humans have all traints, we express some, and repress others, (traits) the things we do not like in others, are actuallythe items we have not loved in ourselves, and seen how "that" item serves in our lives. it is a life process that may be a type of universal law. may, that is.
- the fact that our earth is 93 million miles form the sun-5 million closer we burn-5 mil farther we freeze-earth axis 23.5 debree tilt gives atmosheric life support-rotation gives day/night balance-1/3 oxygen/nitrogen blend lets us breath-if i was 50/50 one lightning bolt and the whole earth would torch-all this precision of creation was designed, or created specifically for human life-i'd say you are perfect in the grand scheme of this Mel. that creative intelligence does not appear to make too many mistakes.
You do realize that it was a Catholic priest that first presented the Big Bang theory? A Lutheren established quantum mechanics...Then there was that whole pasteurization thing... And lets not forget the theory of gravity...
I hate how christianity limits the ability for rational thinking
If we are talking about my own personal mind being limited in rationality-- You are assuming two things 1. That my mind is limited in rationality and 2. That it is because I am Christian.
You have insufficient information for either conclusion.Gosh - that is an awful lot of sweeping generalizations all in one go. It would also appear you have a reading issue because a lot of the things you claim I said - I did not.
But - one thing at a time. Lets deal with teh irrational belief you have that there is a god. You are claiming it to be rational, but have simply attacked my statement that it is not rational.
Lets deal with Pascal's wager as this is one of your claims that show it is rational.
1. Pascal's wager misses one crucial point - the nub of the argument is that he chose to believe - in case the Christian god who burns non-believers exists.
Assuming for a moment that we accept the possibility of a god existing (which is logically impossible). There is an infinite number of possible gods. Your chances of choosing the correct one are infinity:one. Therefore the Cristian nasty, burn-you-for-all-eternity-for-not-believing god is infinitely improbable. God could as easily punish believers for believing nonsense with no basis in fact. That is what I would do if I was god - so Pascal could well be burning as we speak.
2. This wager does not make a rational argument for the existence of this murderous psychopath. It makes an argument for choosing to believe in it just in case.
While choosing to believe in it - just in case - may be a rational decision, the belief itself has no rational basis. This is simply fear.
And you are now saying that the bible does not call for faith? It does not say that you need to have faith - not reason? I am confused.
Ah - so lying is OK then? LOLOL
Dint u red wot Pascal sed? LOLOLOLOL
This is why ur religion causes so many Konflikts.
Your beliefs are completely irrational. LOLOLOLO As you have just demonstrated.
I accept that you choose to believe nonsense because it makes you feel better. Wonderful. Thanks for not responding to any thing i Sed.
This is why your religion has caused 2,000 years of wars.
ciao
Faith is awesome. And infinity:one is awesome as well.
Good for you. LOLOLLOLOLOLOLO
Nothing rational here and thanks for proving my point. U R not here for a discussion innit.
I suggest a decent dictionary in future as you do not seem capable of rational discussion.
Actually, I think I did respond to what you asked. If you disagree, than that is your right.
If you can't defend your own position and must result to insults, then by all means
Such is the curse of the quasi-intellectualAwww - how Kristian of you.
Little wonder you cause so many wars.
Like wot Jebus sed to do.
Your religion always comes to this.
Ah. Not looking for a discussion then? Just wanted a fight like it says to do in the bible.
Excellent job in ignoring every point I made. Must be very frustrating to have actual points made that you have to ignore. This is why your religion causes so many conflicts.
Bye.Awwwwww. So - ignoring the points I made in order to defend your beliefs is OK and it is my fault now.
Lets get back to the infinite number of gods.#]
How many possible gods are there?
There was another thread, ironically enough started by a christian that was pretty much indecipherable and, I believe, quoted the KJV in entirety. I get it from both sides... I'm not christian enough to go to heaven but I'm too christian to be intelligent.
Honestly, I think the bashing goes both ways pretty symmetrically here. Either someone is going to hell or they are so stupid that someone must be assisting in the typing. Both sides are trying to convert each other.
I'm a UU because I like to argue. The only formalized group that I found I can have a meaningful discourse, with no expectation for either side to change their views are the wiccans and, surprisingly, the Hindus. I haven't met many Hindus though, so it might be luck of the drawI definitely believe both sides are trying to convert one another because
"they" spend countless hours argueing
or is it possible "they" love to argue debate and demoralize other human beings? That makes no sense to me. To me it's a waste of time.
For innocent questions and discussions leading to learning...that makes sense on both sides.
That's where either side can volunteer info.
But for either side to be harranging the other side is just to me a) a waste of time b) immature c)many other reasons.Making someone feel bad? Apparently they have bigger issues than hurt feelings.
Well, look on the bright side, Marcus, if your back is up, you are halfway to standing up straight.
Same reason you do not kept your to yourself. Every human being has the right to say what they desire or think or believe. At least in most modern free societies. And no other human is under any obligation to listen nor reply to any persons words, thoughts, feelings or beliefs. Might be fun to see you put your own squawking into practice and do what you are asking of others.
well thankyou Steven, spoken like a true gentleman, and makes sense
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