I'm a Christian so....PLEASE DO'T ATTACK ME!!!! I say that because I see how some of you ladies and gentlemen and some Christians argue back and forth. I don't want to get involved in any of that.
Actually, I have a few questions, has anyone ever told you they were a Christian without you asking? If so, did they try to force their religion on you, for example, telling you that you are a sinner and that whole spiel. Did that make you angry, why? Also, if someone tells you they are a Christian does that change how you perceive that person?
I'm here to gain a better understanding of atheist's view of a person of any faith, not necessarily just Christianity.
Well, i live in a very religious country, so naturally i was indoctrinated in Christianity and i was a serious believer, i lived terrified with the concept of hell, and that someone was listening to my thoughts and other crazy things, i'm telling you this for you to understand that i know what is to be a believer, actually i call it brainwashed, but one day when i was 14 or so i had an epiphany and i understood what religion was and i immediately abandon Christianity, never attended mass again, no more prayer, no more fear, but i was not an atheist yet, i was not comfortable not believing in god, that took a lot more reading and digging, indoctrination is a powerful thing.
And all this to say, yes i've been forced to believe in Christianity, and when i came out as an atheist my older aunts told me things like, your soul is lost, your going to hell and some other things, nothing bad actually.
And in my country if someone present themselves as christian they probably are Jeova Witnesses, and yes they are trying to convert you...
I can understand that, just to let you know I'm not brainwashed though. I can understand where the you get the brainwashed from. What kind of stuff did you read that caused you not to believe?
Well, the religious stuff, i learned about History, particularly the history of Catholicism, the Inquisition, Crusades, and many more horrible things, but the biggest thing probably was reading the bible and i understood that there was more on that book that they told me in Sunday school, and i did not liked what i've read...
And things that are against what i believe like they "demonize" homosexuals, their position on the condom, etc...
I understood what religion was, men making up some story to have power over other men, when i say men it is male, because in most religions women are second class citizens, if you read the bible you know what i'm talking about, and you can see this in the Catholic church hierarchy, there are no women there.
Becoming atheist took some more time, i can't tell you a particular book or author, but it may came from studying a lot of religions worldwide, the ancient ones an the main religions today, a lot of philosophy too.
Things like this:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
I'm know nowadays there are many good books on this issue with many great arguments against religion and a belief in a god, i have not read them but i know the arguments, authors like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens, maybe it might be good for you to know those arguments.
All this to show that atheists do not simple wake one day and they are angry with god and that's it, many of us have a similar path to mine, i know cases were people took much more time, several years, and yes it requires a lot of study and an open mind, because, like in my case, i was challenging my life time beliefs.
Many have professed to be Christians and have tried to convert me, though i am a Christian too, but not a good enough one as far as they are concerned.
They claim that i drink, smoke, and party, and its not good enough. I tell them to their faces that they are hypocrites.
It never ever makes me angry. On the contrary, it amuses me, and by the time i finish talking to them, i shake their fanatical faith.
If you tell me you are a Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Buddist, whatever, im cool with all religions. But i want to see it in your actions and how you relate to your fellow human beings AND animals.
Sometimes i have heard atheists talk more sense than chronic believers.
Your words and your deeds is enough for me to tell.
I'm a former Christian. My family was always very religious growing up. I found most Christians to be very narrow minded and hypocritical. Not to say that all are but some people give other Christians a bad name. I am no longer a believer. It's my choice but I don't like how many Christians assume I will go to hell for not following their religion. I often wonder if all these poor children who die as babies or who die in third world countries are also destined for hell because nobody told them about Jesus Christ. It hardly seems fair that a good and just God would sent his children to hell for that. Anyway that was one of my major concerns with the religion. However, I try to respect those who believe differently than me. I think these forums can get heated. I'm guilty myself for going overboard a few times so I stay off as much as I can. Your question seemed reasonable and I felt compelled to give you my opinion.
I think all children go to Heaven, not unless your Catholic then they go to purgatory. I don't know about the people that never heard about Christianity. Thank you for answering the question and I hope that I don't seem narrow minded or hypocritical, I try not to be.
You don't seem that way at all, Lawrence. My relatives think that way and so do many other Christians I know. I know there are others that don't believe that. Yes Catholics believe you go to purgatory if you werent baptized. I was baptized catholic so I guess if the Catholics are right then I'm safe. Lol
Yes, many times
Depending on what I was doing then.
I'll feel sympathy, like anybody who feel for a retard.
I'm not an atheist, so I can't help you.
But what I feel is religion is a personal business(an opinion). So don't wear it on your sleeves. As long as anybody keep their religion to themselves, I've no problem, nor I'll ask.
Why would I attack you? I'll ridicule religious beliefs when they deserve it, I'll happily point out logical inconsistencies and I'll oppose any attempt anyone might make to inflict their beliefs on other people.. but that isn't attacking YOU, is it?
Yes, I have had that. It's only made me angry when they physically got in my way and blocked my progress. If they want to mutter at me as I pass by, I can feel sorry for them, but not anger,
If someone feels the need to tell me that they are a Christian when no one asked and the subject of religion is not under discussion, yes, that changes my perception of them. If it is in context, it doesn't. I'll give two examples.
We offer free computer help to other folks in our retirement community. When people insist that they should pay, we suggest that they make a charitable donation instead. Recently I helped a woman and made that suggestion. She responded "As a Christian, I do that anyway".
We have a neighbor who brought up his church, his religion and Jesus before I even knew his name. I have never had a conversation with him where he has not dragged his religion into it.
That woman mentioned her religion in context. I have no different opinion of her than I did upon walking into her home. The other neighbor is annoying - I didn't like him immediately and have seen nothing to change my opinion.
However, that doesn't change my actions. This past summer I saw him struggling to move a heavy chair out to the curb for pickup. I went over to help, in spite of the fact that I knew I'd hear more about his religion (and I did).
I'm an atheist and have never been religious. My parents did take me to church; I saw it as nonsense then and see it as nonsense now. If I had a negative attitude toward everyone I know to be Christian, I'd have a pretty sour outlook on life. In fact, I know several deeply religious Christians who get my extreme admiration: they are kind, generous and caring people who help others almost every day of their lives and almost always do so with nary a peep about their religious beliefs. They understand context and feel no need to attach their beliefs to every act of kindness they might do. They don't hide their belief, but they don't wave it around like a flag, either.
I think they are great folks.
Yes, I have had quite a few people tell me they were a Christian without me asking. They were never forceful, but casual about it, which was a bit more frightening, to tell you the truth. I have been told I was a sinner (this was prior to my awakening), and I agreed, but clarified that I though original sin was BS and indicitive of a spiteful god (this was in college, mind you). It royally pissed me off. It definitely changed how I saw that person and jaded me toward anyone forward about their religion, especially the people who assumed they had everyone figured out and applied it to me.
But, those experiences had very little to do with why became an atheist.
I'm not atheist, but maybe not necessarily a Christian either. I think some religious people believe it to be their duty to try to convert or convince people to become a follower of their religion. It doesn't anger me at all, as I am a believer in a higher power, I just have some issues with the Bible and believe it has been corrupted by mankind as has all religiuios scripture through out history. I think knowing that someone is a proclaimed Christian may in a way change my view of them, not necessarily a negative or positive change just a slight difference in expectations, I guess. I expect more kindness and love from a Christian than I do from the average person, though many times I seem to be somewaht dissapointed.
I would love to say that you should expect more love and kindness from Christians than the average person. You have to realize that they are the average person also. I also understand your views on the Bible, I remember in one Bible class that I took it was said that in the middle ages monks translated the Bible left notes on the sides of the pages that that made their ways into the Bible. This does not lessen the importance of the Bible to me, because the message is it conveys is still the same. I'm not trying to convert you or anything' I'm just trying to explain that I understand where you are coming from with what your saying.
Ah one spiritual teacher once taught me : The way we view a situation determines how we believe. For example as Pcunix said, if someone told him they were a Christian he would look at them differently. I have done this on purpose with many atheists. For two years never told them I was. Never brought about the conversation. Just was being myself. They got along with me just fine. The minute they found out, first they were angered, 2nd the said, you're not like all the other Christian's I've ever met. Well of course because I don't typically bring the subject up and even when others do, I don't say anything. I let others be, and make their own choices to believe in what they do. I used to watch a friend evangelize, memorize scripture, and take his bible everywhere. He thinks what he is doing is right. Most run away. I never really got into the idea of recruiting followers. Or preaching to others. I heard it enough times and seen it in action and see how it harms people more than helps them. My example in life how I treat others I think demonstrates more what I learned about Jesus's Example, not my words or preaching.
No, I said that if they tell me that outside of an appropriate context it can affect my opinion of them. I gave examples of both appropriate and inappropriate from my own life. I also gave examples of Christians I deeply admire.
I know you probably know that, but other people sometimes read carelessly and could see me as someone who immediately dislikes Christians "just because" and that would be a very wrong impression.
Seriously? You read what I wrote and got that impression?
So I'll give you my honest assessment of what goes through my mind when someone informs me they are a Christian. I immediately want to know whether they are of the liberal or conservative variety. Conservative Christians are the ones who tend to demonize gays and deny science. Liberal Christians are more live and let live types.
I also have no problem being PERSONALLY friends with anyone, but I also hold the belief that deep down inside, most Christians do not really have a problem with homosexuality, nor do they think I am going to hell. Perhaps if I were convinced they were completely sincere in those beliefs, it would be harder to like them on a purely personal basis.
But I don't think Christians are bad people. I simply see many of the views as misguided, just like you would see my views also.
To tell you the truth I don't think homosexuality is even a sin. I have a Bible right now that says that it was mistranslated, I think that is just people being afraid of things they don't understand. So, I guess I'm the liberal type because I won't tell you that your views on life are misguided, they are your views. Jesus said this parable, "why are you looking at the spec in your brother's eye when you have a plank in your own eye". I think I need to get my own life right and my views on life right before I start judging someone else's.
Well I appreciate you openly saying that. Like I said, I don't think someone is a bad person simply for taking a position different from my own (unless the person is racist, then I definitely think my position is right!). I actually grew up a Christian, and I don't call myself an atheist because I can't convince myself God DOESN'T exist. I also think most of what Jesus says about morality is worth considering.
Well to "I have a question", I have been approached by and am friendly with people of many faiths and no it does not make me angry, I believe the social climate in america right now has cycled back to the medieval era, filled with stigma for ones beliefs and judgement even the killings we don't hear about. remember this is a country populated by people who themselves were persecuted for having different religious beliefs. I honestly think that the religious community has a fear of the rise of science (since galileo) and unfortunately will stupidly try to rewrite history to deny scientific truths. Someone telling me that they are christian does affect my perception of them, like the previous person, I will wonder are they they fanatics or are they rational about it. As for me, I like to stand somewhere in between (agnostic maybe, but I hate labels) I think that to know for sure there is a god is unknowable.... therefore KNOWING is irrelevant, also to know for sure there isn't a god is just as irrelevant, lets be here now and find grace in the mysteries of life, also having jesus like qualities wouldn't hurt anyone, after all didn't he say follow him..... not worship him.
Well, like I said earlier I am more of the liberal type because I do believe in science, I do think there were 5 great extinctions and that 95-99% of all life has been extinguished. I believe that G-d guided the process of evolution, I'm not going to say that I came from a monkey but that is for personal reasons. I will say that I do agree with your status of the American culture though.
I'm not an atheist, but more of an agnostic.
"has anyone ever told you they were a Christian without you asking?"
Yes. I have encountered a number of missionaries from various Christian denominations. I also hear public figures talk about their Christian beliefs all the time, even though I couldn't care less. Moreover, this culture is saturated with various Christian and godly references and motifs, which enter my life unbidden constantly.
"If so, did they try to force their religion on you, for example, telling you that you are a sinner and that whole spiel."
No, not that whole spiel because I don't stick around long enough for that nonsense. Also, I have lived my whole life in very secular places where even devoutly religious people will not tell a total stranger they are going to hell or whatever.
"Also, if someone tells you they are a Christian does that change how you perceive that person?"
Christianity is an extremely large and diverse religion. So it makes no sense to focus on that label alone (especially because most "Christians" in the western world are not particularly serious about it). Instead I find it helpful to think in terms of subcultural groups, such as liberal Catholic college professors in Massachusetts; or old black ladies dressed in their Sunday best in Mississippi; or New Age 20-somethings in California. That gives a better guideline of what someone is all about.
Most Christians could learn a thing or two from the Amish. Keep their ridiculous beliefs to themselves. Nobody bothers them, and they don't bother anybody. Simple.
I can understand that. I'm not sure what to say you kind of shut me down with the last statement.
Hi me again, I can't help but to interject, I've asked a question time and again, what exactly do you have to believe to be considered a Christian? What I was told is that you must accept Jesus Christ as your saviour, worship him and god, beg for forgiveness for being born in sin and get saved. Really I cannot believe that a creator of any kind would be vengeful, would be so needy as to be worshipped, would decide to create his/ her/ it's creations in so called sin and structure such a chaotic world such as this one, also how do creationists explain the rabbit? A creature so badly created tha t it has to eat, poop it's food then eat it again just to digest it. Sounds like the rabbit's not finished evolving now doesn't it?
Your right that is what is needed to be saved. I don't think G-d is needy, in all honesty, I think it's more of building a personal relationship. I view G-d more in the light of a parent. HE (HE is an ambiguous term, not necessarily used to define G-d in any way) might get frustrated because man sins. Just like a parent gets frustrated with a child that makes the same mistakes over and over again. In the Old Testiment, it could be seen more as chastisements, the same way you chastise a child when the are young. As that child gets older you let that child discover and learn and discover things on its own. That's also why I can't dixcredit evolution and dinosaurs as quickly as some of others might. As far as the rabbit, I don't know because I don't have an answer for everything, I'm learning just like everyody else. I hope I made this as clear as possible. Just let me know.
Except, parents don't send their kids to burn for an eternity, or send floods to wipe them all out, or build armies and send their followers to destroy one another, or a host of other atrocities committed by God.
Is that what you consider as being "frustrated"?
OK, I see your point, but like I said , "I think". I'm not saying that it is a fact, this is my personal view. Maybe there was areason for those things that I don't know about, I wasn't there nor do I claim to know any of the answers. So hopefully this all answer your question do I think that was frustration, no, I think there was a purpose or better yet a reason for those things that I don't understand.
More precisely, it is what you believe as opposed to what you think, I didn't see any thinking in your logic.
Sure, gods were man made and holy books were written by ignorant fools. Their purpose was to control people with fear. It's easy to understand.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not try to convert. Only to get people to look to the scriptures, as an answer to the questions many face...... If someone wants to take it further, then that is there choice.
At the end of the day whatever we have been brought up to believe, we all have free choice.......
I would say that I am a liberal christian, and I probably have more of an issue with people in my own local area more than anything else. I have been told by three different groups that I've read the wrong books, the wrong bibles, I could never be a minister because I'm a woman. I've been called a Lone Ranger Christian, because I talk to Atheists, Other people that have gender differences, and other religions. Of course I am tainted because I believe in a God that is loving, and regardless of what Culture, Race, Relgion, Ethnic group that we are all his children. I Believe God Created us all with Diversity and were never meant to be clones. We have the ability to work together, accept our differences and get along no matter who we are, we are more a like than different. Fortunately I do have high standards. If you're a minister, or leader in a church your example expresses milestones. I've heard people say memorize scripture, I've watched people walk around with bibles evangelizing, but what is the point if you can't walk your walk. I understand I've learned more from others examples spiritually that Christian's. I always wonder why this is, but I can never give you the answer. I get tired of hearing myself from others I am a sinner and need to repent. I even get tired of others saying if you are not born again, you're just good guy or good women. Legalistic Christians are the ones that usually do this, but do more harm to our society than good. They don't give you room to grow, or make mistakes. They don't seem to forgiving. Which defeats the purpose of their message. Born Again to me is just a label people to use to make themselves somewhat better than the rest of Christian's in our society. If you've already been saved, how can you be unsaved is my question. There are many arguments between sects of Christians alone. No one can agree on what the believe, and attacking other ministers and teachers. I have even witnessed this in my own community and refuse to be part of a spiritual and emotional war on other people that believe. I always understood my example and walk told people the message. I never use scripture, nor carry a bible around. I don't bring it up half the time. I remember one time some friends didn't even know I was for over two years, and when they found out got upset, because some how it made some kind of difference in who I was, before they knew, and who I was after they knew. Of course it didn't make any difference and they got over it, but I do that on purpose, because most people assume that if you're Christian you want to convert them, and attack them. Fortunately I have no desire to convert anyone, and believe its people's own choice what they believe or don't believe.
HattieMattieMae What does Born Again mean to you? I understand where you are coming from but I'm just curious because I hear this a lot.
Born Again I believe is someone that has truly transformed from the inside out. You can be very ugly inside, filled with Angry, Bitter, filled with rage, very hurt from others. Maybe feeling like a Victim in life, and taking things out on another person through speech, behavior, and actions. When you are born again finally get it, being self aware, socially aware, spiritually aware, intellectually aware of how you affect other people as well as yourself in society. You take the courage and strength to change your own behaviors disciplining yourself in various forms, changing old behaviors patterns, and beliefs, stripping away the old self, and becoming a new person leaving the past behind. Transforming almost like you were a caterpillar for the most of your life, going into a cocoon, and than becoming a butterfly, flying free. Although I feel that people use Born Again with out truly changing their lives. I believe some feel that because they say it, maybe even been baptized it must make them Born Again. The word is overly used, and sorry to say it doesn't happen over night, or even in a few days, or few months. It takes time to become that new person. I also believe at certain milestones in your growth it can help as you grow and you mature more in what you are learning. Although many others may not agree with this definition, it is my take it on.
Hear Hear, HattieMattieMae, I feel you words to my core, that is a philosohy I can believe in, these people do not realize their convoluted interpretations of quite a good book actually is from the human realm with all their pettiness and jealousies. I abandoned their claptrap years ago, as a Child I was an avid seeker, plowing through several christian sects to the dismay of my very catholic then protestant family, I am with you there either we are all there or were not, not some pedantic rules as to who is good or bad or not fit for heaven, who is this guy in the sky anyway and where is heaven/hell? I just assumed it might be right here, residing in whatever we decide to make of our existence on earth.
I think that is the point Haiku, how can I believe in exactly what they preach if they can't figure out themselves what they believe, or disagree with each other in churches. For me it is better to just look at what the scrolls, documents, and the bible itself. At least in my own research I get the real information, and not man's.
I am a very devout believer but I have never felt welcome in any church really. Some just feel evil to me and others are like a club and I do not fit in. Others are far worst because they seem to think that they are better then everyone else and I have no pride like that. For whatever reason I usually feel completely out of place in such places. A lot of it has to do with the life I have been forced to live so far. Others must hide who they are quite well or they are incredibly lucky in life and many others are nothing but fake to me. I have nothing to prove to anyone and nothing to hide so I guess this eliminates me from most Churches. This does not make me feel any different about God or his word because no man will stand in the way of my personal relationship with God or judge me, they have no power over such things.
I'm with you on that SanXuary! I have my own relationship with God, and he should be the only judge over me. I have always been quite devout myself every day in my own home behind the scenes. I just don't choose to play the games in church, and see the cliques, and even seen how some feel the are better than others, etc. Like you've said above. I never really fit in, and usually they don't feel comfortable with me because I study to much, and learn things, and perhaps share to much. Maybe not really wanting to hear what I have to say, because it doesn't go along with their agenda. lol
@ SanXuary I know exactly how you feel, and honestly if you study scripture there's a good reason why you should feel uncomfortable in most if not all churches. I have attended nearly a hundred different churches if not more and they all bend the rules to fit into their own agenda and idea of religion. There are so many traditional beliefs that they follow that simply are not backed up by scripture.
Yes, people have approached me and been vocal about the fact that they are Christian. They have attempted to convert me. They have said I was headed for hell for not agreeing with them. They have also attempted to use the fact that they claim Christianity in order to get jobs and special treatment.
But, let's be honest. The most vocal are always poor examples of that faith, and any other. So I do become suspicious when people babble on about it. I have no problem with Christians whose behavior patterns, and words, show them to be intelligent and caring people.
I'm with you Emile, I hear to many of my brothers in sisters in life talking the talk, but never putting their best foot forward and showing it through their actions. I really don't care what religion is front of me, even atheist. The point is if you believe in something show through your example. If you can't do that no matter who you are or what you believe your word has no merit.
Yes. I think many Christians don't understand that many of us outside of their faith have much respect for the wisdom in the gospels. It's difficult to form a picture of who Jesus was and then see how many of the most'pious' act out their faith. The petty insults, the ego trips, the hatred ingrained in their beliefs....it's in contradiction to everything obvious in the gospels. Their words brand them for what they are.
It's simply very sad to see evangelicals and fundamentalists pushing their selfish beliefs when they are so woefully misguided. You wonder how what started as a good thing could have gone so tragically wrong.
I ask the same thing Emile, I think at one point in time, maybe in Jesus's time they had the right idea, but even states than that Jesus went up against what others were teaching. I don't see anywhere in the bible where it states Jesus acted the way some Christian's do today. This question has always bothered me when I watch others, Jesus was a good example and good teacher, but people have misinterpreted, manipulated, and made their own man made beliefs fit into the agenda over time. Every bible that comes out now is changed and none of them say the exact words in different versions. I met a former minister that read the hebrew version, and he along with another theologian from a Christian college in my area brought some to the church I was going to, and both explained what we are reading isn't even accurate today from the original scrolls. Than if you find the Essenes they have scrolls that have parts we never hear about. There is so much that has been hidden, or changed over the centuries, it is crazy.
And the loss of so much is sad. Plus, the fact that personal beliefs were infused into the retelling of the gospels. You can never know what was in the beginning at this point.
Which is why I think the only thing to be done if you admire the example of Christ is to emulate him. I get so tired of tragic statements that he would support the hatred, the backstabbing and infighting that defines the church and the vocal believers of today. That he would stand behind the attacks and insults thrust on the non believers. That he hates gays. That this bigotry and injustice is warranted because it shows their zeal for God and Christ.
I see the vocal Christian, ( the fundamentalists, Bible believers and Pentecostals to name a few) as Paul, prior to the road to Damascus. There is no respect of the gospels in their hearts or minds.
I think what I've learned in my own spiritual path Lawrence is we are all learning our lessons in life no matter who we are or what belief at our own pace. Some of us learn faster than others. It takes a lot of discipline, and practice to get down by example and not words, and I'm not sure everyone is really willing to do the work on their innerselves. I've been studying on my own for hours for the last 15 years, and done a lot of work, but I can tell you it wasn't always easy. I also had a pastor one time that said, once you think you've arrived, you haven't arrived. It is a long journey your whole life, and always a lesson to be learned even here in the forums. It is everywhere you go, every person you meet, every word you say, every word you act out in behavior. I have chosen my path not because of a label someone can put on me, but to make a difference in the world. I have also learned the important lesson not to just follow anyone's example. Even Jesus was selective in who he hung out with, and whether they were good or bad influence. This is the incredible thing, my boyfriend has the character, values, morals that are listed in many Christian books, but of course I was told once by some people that he wasn't good enough for me because he wasn't "saved". lol Now I think I figured out along the the way that maybe uneven yoked really meant two people had to be healthy, whole and complete individually, emotionally, and spiritually to stay together. I could have accepted that reality they gave me, but It would have been the worst mistake of my life. My boyfriend is very spiritual in his own way, just not according to legalistic christian standards. He learned it by example from his family that walked the walked. I think I learned don't believe everything you here in church, and by anyone. You can be married to someone that say they are saved, a christian, drinks alcohol, smokes pot, goes to church every sunday, and never opens a bible. If you had to pick between the two what would you choose? lol
Christians live out the gospel, share the gospel, correct Christians when they fall and help correct people so they can live for God too. People do get offended by the Holy Bible because they don't want to change for God because it seems to hard for them. Nonbelievers attack believers because they feel attacked because they are living like that. It is by choice to live like that.
I enjoyed reading your comments. Have a great day.
I suppose it could also be argued that it is the choice of the Christian who agrees with your statement to be completely obtuse. That would be my argument, anyway.
eaves dropping on your conversation...... I would chose a bible reader, as at least they are looking to find out the truth........
Emilie R just likes to start arguments with believers, anyways, so watch out for her. Ask her tons a questions, then it will be the end of it. She has no proof without scripture. Thank you.
Thank you. Have a great day. Christians should stick together. Make good points to points about the gospel.
I stick to the real world, thanks. Scripture that can't be backed up by life experience is really little more than your fantasy.
But, thanks for posting your assessment. That's pretty amazing for only being here 9 days. You must be psychic. Or a sock puppet. Either way, it's an opinion. So definitely valid.
One must read much more than the Bible to find truth, and even then they will never really know the whole truth.
Right. I'd put my level of maturity up against yours, but then I'd have to babysit. Who would pay me?
I like to agree also. My interests are varied.
Kikilari I value your beliefs as much as I do Emile's I think the thing is people are entitled to believe what they want too. If we don't agree with them that is simply okay. If they don't agree with us it is simply okay. Each to their own is the better way. After we die someday, we could simply find out we were all wrong no matter who we are, so I don't see the point in judging someone else when I won't find out until I'm dead anyway. I could just imagine God telling me, well Hattie, you thought you were right, but you were wrong Just as much as Emile, or KIckilari. You were all wrong, so maybe you better learn the lessons again. lol
Why are you contradicting yourself and saying you believe in wrong things?
What is the point believing in it, if you thinks wrong?
I'm stating we can all be wrong or right Kikilari! We don't have the right to judge others for their beliefs. Everyone is entitled to believe what they do. If you look at the world today as through the centuries Religions have fought over land, beliefs, and their faiths saying it is the way. Perhaps I had a teacher that taught me do you want to be a part of the war people claim to be in the name of God, or take part in it. Do we have the right to kill someone else for their beliefs. I believe God is a just God. You can kill another spiritually, physically, or emotionally. I rather not have that on my head. Of course I know I have Christian friends that do want it on their heads, and cause more harm and destruction even if it is on another Christian, or non-believer. I just don't feel that I have the right to put the authority of God in my own hands when it comes to another soul. I am accountable for my own actions not another persons. It is their choice and God gives us the free will to choose or follow.
You do realize that's an atheist animating a sock puppet that you are attempting to reason with?
You can judge people by the way they are living because you can tell by their actions, they have no God in their life, if they don't live out the gospel.
hmm....a profile that says Christian. Are you saying they are posing as one, and really an atheist!
You have no proof because you never opened up a Holy Bible and gave me scripture.
I can give you scripture, if you want me too.
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)
I gots your proof Kikilari! Right out of the bible! You asked for it! You got it!
The funny thing is that we all judge others and we all fall short of God's glory too.
1 Cor 5:12-13 (ESV) "For what have I to do with JUDGING OUTSIDERS? Is it not those INSIDE the CHURCH whom you are to JUDGE? GOD JUDGES those OUTSIDE. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
hmm.......Kikilari according to the bible you must be careful about judging outsiders!
They harrass people, trash talk people, you need to watch it and stop being a hyprocrit too.
I'm not an outsider, I'm a disenfranchised member. I went to many churches religiously, I just found a higher truth for myself and it was and wasn't in christianity.
Well Mischeviousme, I was just showing the proof Kikilari asked for! Nothing to do with you.
I would say some people just like to argue, which doesn't seem very Christian to me.
Yay it is not dmop, but since that is the way the world functions, society, cultures we are just used to the habit, and unless we really choose to not argue, we will continue to as a human race as a whole. Someone is always feeling they have to be right or wrong. We don't like being wrong, and for the most part when we are wrong, most refuse to apologize or admit their mistakes. I guess that comes with a lot of discipline and hard work on ourselves to be better people.
Jewish people do not seek to convert anyone, but to see truth in scripture
so they can live a better life.
Many Christians feel you are lost if you're not in their religion, and try to convert you.
We debate and point out our truths. I don't feel that is arguing. It becomes a quarrel when we attack people personally. (instead of their beliefs)
I have been a Christian since I was born. When I was eleven years old, I got baptized and tried to follow God all the time because I wanted to be the best I could be for God. My parents never questioned me because I never gave them anything to worry about it. Then I did my thing, when I was 18 years old to 23 years old because I wanted to experience different things, but it never satisfied me. When I turned to God again, when I was 24 years old, then I realized, that God was my happiness. I am back again reading my Holy Bible, going to church, witnessing, showing God through me, meeting new people, faith, bible study and working with children too. I have trust issues because certain people teased me about my beliefs. That is wrong. I got bullied in school because I was in a different class. God is my everything, family, friends, pets and other people too. I hope you enjoy. God bless you all. This people to answer questions, now. Why don't believe in God? What did God do to you? What do you think of a faith in God? What do you think of religion? What do you think of the Holy Bible? What do you think of prayer? I believe in God because he answers my prayers. God saves me every time I pray to him. Faith in God means you believe in God, follow the gospel, live the gospel and witness to people too. The Holy Bible is how we learn more about God. Prayer is when you are talking to God. I am off Facebook was not safe and peoria mocked God. This is a safe site hopefully. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: do you not know that unrighteousness will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of God. Why don't you believe? Who made people? Who made animals? Who made land? Who made water? Who made miracles? What do you believe in? God was the first born and the first one to die too. He rose to Heaven. He made Adam, first. Then he made Eve. He made Eve out of Adam's rib. The demon destroyed their Godly relationship by telling Eve to eat the wrong fruit. That is why we have sin in this world. Jesus healed people, that touched him. He died on the cross for our sins. There was two murders beside Jesus on the cross, the one murder believed in God and went to Heaven because he repented and the other murder got his eyes plucked out because he refused God. God made everything, except what men create from God's creation. God answers prayers and that is why miracles happen. I told you what I believed in right there. I might add more to this later. Have a great day. Talk to you later. My soul is with God. Faith gets you to Heaven. Religion is man made, so that won't get you to Heaven. Thank you for your answers. I seen negative votes on here because they don't obviously believe in God. Who cares what they think of us, the ones that believe in God. I think it is messed up, that the people don't believe in God trash us for what we believe in, harrass us, make fun of us, hurt us and they are mean to us too. They obviously have know love for anything because they have so much hate in their heart, that they have to trash us. They are miserable, so they take it on us because they are bitter people. Bitter people will never make this world happy. God forgives us for our sins, loves us, protects us and keeps us safe too. The Devil is bitter, fills you with lies, hate and mean too. In the first place religion is man made. Faith is believing in God, obeying God, trusting him, he forgives you. You can know a lot about religion, but you have no clue what a faith in God means because you don't believe in God. Faith gets you to Heaven. Think before you say anything about religion. Have fun. See ya. Good luck. People will always trash people. People are afraid of change.
just buttin' in here, the christian concept of born again is in error, linked to the baptism of water. Jesus has a different baptism, the baptism of fire...and I know how to tell if you have that baptism or not. Foolproof and 100% The christians are misled.
My husband had to train a new guy at work one day. All day long he was very preachy to my husband, who by the way is very indifferent to the whole religion thing, mostly because it was shoved down his throat as a kid.
To be honest I was surprized he put up with it but since he felt his job was at stake he held his tongue.
However at the end of the day he did tell his supervisor not to put that guy with him anymore, when they asked why he told them.
They agreed that was not necessary and the guy was never put with my husband again, and apparently he got a talking to for proper conduct at work, because he says they never got any more complaints.
I myself have told some in the past that I was not interested in talking about it, but I would be more than happy to talk about anything else. That shut them up and they went away. lol
Cause I dont want to hear it, don't need to be preached at.
Plain and simple.
It is sounds like believers of God can shut you up with their questions about God and why is that :-), what did God to you, why do you deny God, God answers my prayers and that is your choice.
I think Kikilari is about the most well mannered dog I've ever met in my life with all the thank yous left around the forums. At least you agree with thank you Diane! lol
I have been approached in a restaurant with by a stranger asking, "Do you know Jesus Christ as your personal savior?"
I have a couple of times been told that I am not welcome in their home if I wasn't a Christian.
The restaurant intrusion made my angry because it was an offensive interruption in my private time and space.
The people who didn't want me in their home didn't bother me, quite frankly, as I didn't want to be there anyway. I like to hang around grown-ups who can assess data and come to rational conclusions, and people of faith are not that type - their thinking tends to be of the magical type, and when I around them I find myself biting my tongue too much to enjoy being there.
Oh well he can, lol I just said dog, cause he has a cute puppy face! lol
I honestly can say that I have not been approached by someone asking about my faith. But I can say there was several times that others have tryed getting me to convert to their faith. Growing up I heard alot of degrading about certain religions and there beliefs. Now that I'm older I look at things differently.
No one religion is the right one. Everyone that believes in God will be judged and punished by God. Everyone is a sinner no matter how hard you follow God and his laws.
But I do believe in one main thing from the bible, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you" Matthew 7:12. I try to treat everyone the same and see them as equal to me. Yes, sometimes I dont always do this but I stress this verse to my children almost everyday.
My children are not baptized and this was a decision that I and my husband made before we had children. We want them to make their own choices on what religion is right for them when they are ready. I do not degrade other religions to them and I do not push them into being believers. And I have the same respect for anyone else and their beliefs.
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