bother posting AGAINST beliefs?
If the Atheist can "convert" any believer to Atheism, then, they can be compared to evangelists who do it the other way.
Still attacking atheists?
You do realize that you are posting in the atheist section?
What propaganda? .i don't believe in God...end of story...
This is interesting dj. Aren't you one of those who insist Christianity isn't a religion? Now you are saying atheism is a religion because you think they have traits in common with evangelicals. Who are Christian. Which isn't a religion.
What's up with that?
Christianity is a religion. The true Religion. A religion is a belief system, and if you believe in something with everything in you, it's religious.
Someone said that, and others follow, because they are tired of being bashed for their love of Christ and others because of some wolves in sheeps clothes long ago who set a bad name to a good teaching. The principles were always good. Nothing but good. But the idiots doing the killing were anything but Christians.
Religion is the search for one's creator, and/or in atheists case because they deny Christ and God altogether how they came into being. Nothing different except denial of God. They are looking in the SAME DIRECTION... Behind them, in the past.
Problem is, they are using 'tools' that man made.. Well, I use tools - alot..
I've been a carpenter, operator, auto mechanic, cook, inspector, roofer, insurance agent, inventor and there are others..
Tools fail, even at the job they are designed to do. At every level....
They fail in their design, at their job, in their strength, and even because they are in human hands, as if everyone here won't admit they are not perfect.
If atheists want to trust that instead of eye-witness accounts, I've gotten to the point that I won't push but a little and quit.. They are too stubborn and they don't know for certain and don't claim to.
I do. I see a pattern in my life, and it is of good.. And only good. Do I screw up? Yes, but then I keep doing good, because I'm doing what God says to do in His Word, the Holy Bible.
A type of good you don't get before you come to know Christ and read the Scriptures and follow God. I don't care what anyone says.. Debate all you like, but it boils down to the fact that people notice good things that come directly from that text.. And it makes a pattern that is recognizable.
Not to mention all the other points they have been debating that are impossible to ignore.
Ok, deep breath.. People that trust man, will get man's reward. People that trust in God will get God's reward.
Scientists want to control things that they have no business controlling.
Why do I say that? Because they are not responsible enough to have it.
Atomic bombs and nuclear warheads are not responsible ways of dealing with things. They cannot reverse the effects they cause, so then why should they be allowed to damage that which they cannot fix or replace?
No, Christianity is a religion, and Christ is the King.. and God is the creator and atheists can have their erroneous failure of an attempt to see something they weren't there to see with their screwy innacurate tools..
I'll trust people that were at the scene, you can listen to the 'scientists'..
Because "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."
I've been defending this position for some years now, and recentely i discovered there is a movement arround this and some call this movement new atheism...
It is more of a belief system because they identify themselves as a group and do try and deconvert believers. If I wasn't a believer in Santa Claus, then I most certainly am not going to try and deconvert people who do believe it and make websites trying to debunk the existence of Santa.
No, I don't see much thought there at all, just a very misinformed OP.
But, are you asking if we argue about your beliefs because they teach you that we non-believers will fry for an eternity and that you must tell us all about it and save us?
Or, is it about how your faith demonizes homosexuals?
It can't be about divorce because so many of you Christians have been divorced and that would really be quite hypocritical.
Conversion? Why would anyone care what you believed as long as it was kept behind closed doors? If you did that, these forums would be silent.
But, that is the problem from the get go, the fact that you can't leave it out of the public eye and you must save us from ourselves, despite the fact we don't need nor want what you want for us.
And, that's really the bottom line.
I can't speak for all atheists, but in my case, I find most supernatural beliefs (including religous ones) very harmful to society, and I try to change people's minds, or at least make them think a bit, and hopefully they'll see the light on their own. I think the comparison to evangelists is a weak one; evangelists, by their nature, try to get people to believe a certain thing, whereas atheists try to get people to shed their beliefs and think critically.
what? so if someone stops believing in god because an atheist made sense , that's a bad thing. dude, for a so-called believer, you have a lot of animosity towards others.i'm not part of any atheist club, group or movement anfd i don't care what anyone believes. to be god and religion are the worlds greatest hoax.
It is true that atheism is more than just a disbelief in something. I don't believe in Santa Claus but I sure am not going to try and dissuade someone he doesn't exist. There is an agenda by atheists to "evangelize" believers to get them to see the "truth" so that society can be safer. Some atheists are dubbed "millitant atheists".
@aka-dj: You write, "If Atheism is NOT a religion, then why bother posting AGAINST beliefs?"
I can't answer your question for every atheist, but I can try to answer it for myself.
When I was a Christian, I was proud and loud about my faith. This was in the 1970s, and the "Jesus movement" was in full-swing. The "Jesus movement," for those who haven't heard of it, was a period of religious revival in the United States. The Living Bible had just been published, and (what was then) contemporary Christian music had recently exploded into its own industry. It was an exciting time to be a Christian.
Jesus was my savior, but he was also my role model. I loved the Lord with all of my heart, but not because Jesus had commanded me to - I loved him simply because I loved him, and because he had loved me enough to send his son to die for me.
Jesus commanded us to "Love your neighbor as yourself," and I took this commandment very seriously. I still take it seriously, though not -- nowadays -- because it was Jesus's commandment.
During my years as a Christian, I believed that being a good role model was an important part of being a good Christian. I didn't believe that being a good role model was essential to my salvation, but I believed that it was essential to winning others to Christ, and winning others to Christ was something I was eager to do.
A good role model doesn't mock. A good role model isn't dismissive. A good role model listens to what others have to say. Of course, there are other attributes that make a good role model, but those are (a few of) the attributes which make one a good role model on a public forum, and that is the heart of my answer to you.
I strive to be a good role model. On these forums, there are plenty of bad role models. I believe that it is fair to say that there are as many bad Christian role models as there are bad atheist role models. However, I don't represent Christians by my behavior; I represent atheists. I hope that my good behavior makes up for the excess of bad behavior. That's almost always why I post on the forums -- not to persuade, not to convert, not to evangelize, but to redress an imbalance.
I know that I sometimes fail in my "good behavior," but I promise that I try, whereas it is obvious -- and regrettable -- that many don't.
To your credit, I am happy to hold discourse with you for exactly the reasons you stated here.
I don't lump all atheists in the same batch, but, based on the aggressive, rude and ridiculous behaviour of many, I have a lot less patience for them. If they displayed the kind of restraint, courtesy and intelligence as you, these forums would have a totally different tone.
I also agree, there are good and not so good models on both sides. However, I tend to find the negative ones leaning toward, or being amongst the atheist side. (You certainly can label that as my opinion, as it certainly is, and I'm happy to own it.)
Sure, you can compare me to an evangelist, but then you can do that to anyone who is
1) passionate and open about their views
2) attempts to open minds or persuade others to share views similar to their own
So, for example we can call folks who help their favorite political candidate political evangelists, if you want.
Attempting to persuade others with arguments and discussions is not tantamount to being a religion and to suggest otherwise is silly.
this subject is over. everybody is who he is and believes in whatever he believes and attacking and harassing people about it is the issue. Frankly if we are at peace with ourselves, let it be.
We say that nonbelievers are atheist but to me they are self believer and believer of what they can see through their naked eye. As far as they are associated with the welfare of our society and good deeds, surely they can turn at least half the world to them, as god also wants people to be good to everything.
Well clearly when they meet in buildings have their rows of seats, and talk about Athiesm it does look pretty close to the same thing, and like I've researched before they use the same laws christians do fight for their rights as having ministers in prisons, military, and court cases. They have their own books and magazines, websites. They do tend to do the same thing they complain about Christian's doing to them. They do try to convert you in my opinion always trying to point out what's wrong with everyone else, but themselves. lol
Secularism is the worship of self (ego) and selfs master, the enemy, by default and in ignorance or denial of the truth.
They attack religious belief and specifically Christ in blinded obedience to their Master.
Other than that they are normally nice chaps and lasses who really believe their own propaganda.
This has to be the d***est, most jaw-dropping post I've seen, and I've read a bundle of them in the religion forum.
Can I have my leg back now? I actually took it as a serious post at first, but no one - no one - could possibly keep a straight face with that line!
Wow! I really wish we had signature lines here, that's a keeper.
(Secularism is the principle of separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries.) Where did your definition come from?
I've never had a knock on the door from an atheist trying to convert me. They don't tell anyone of the hell they will endure if they don't believe as they do. They don't ask for money.
What propaganda specifically.
Honestly, I don't think it really matters. Even if you were to prove by the definition of the word that atheism isn't a religion, a word is defined based on what we decide, us being those who speak the words. In other words, if every Christian were to be successful in excluding atheism as being defined as religion, they wouldn't be making it any more or less valid. It's like arguing over whether bowling is a sport or not. Logic doesn't decide definitions, WE decide definitions.
At the end of the day, if both sides are being bigots, is there really any point in taking jabs? You aren't being a bigot for trying to convert, but you are for being so pushy. The last time I checked, it's a Christian's job to spread the word and God's job to judge. Atheists have the excuse for not having a strict set of beliefs, but are being just as silly all the same. Just let there be understanding!
As far as my religious beliefs are concerned (because I know I'll be ridiculed,) I'm constantly teetering and trying to find answers. By no means am I atheist. It's a teetering between agnosticism and God if anything. I do believe, however, that the answers are in philosophy. If we can't think for ourselves and come to the conclusion one way or the other, then we don't deserve the right to speak (not saying that you didn't think to get to your beliefs.) Furthermore, using the Bible alone to convert, which people have often tried for me is....distasteful. It's only the truth to the individual if individual has already accepted Christianity to some extent.
So try to convert me either way if you would like. I'll be stubborn for no other reason than wanting to actually find the truth....Not because I think I know everything.....(was this whole rant...me being a bigot about bigots?)
I as an atheist, have no desire or will to, "convert," anyone. Convert them to what? To not believing in their bible? Their god? I don't care. I am comfortable in my own skin and neither need to explain myself, or try to make anyone believe like me. To each his/her own. Religion, or lack of, is a very personal choice, and a journey that ultimately an individual has to make on his own.
Your attitude is that you are secure in yourself. Those who lament about the "evils" of Christianity every day, lashing out, clearly is very unsure of themselves.
Claire that is simplistic. By that statement, I could assume you are insecure in yourself. Do you not lament about the evils of secular society? Do you not lament about Satan being in control of everything?
I think the militant atheists exist because some are sick and tired of militant evangelical Christians such as yourself ignoring reality and then crying foul when you are responded to in kind. Militant atheists are no more a bane on society than you, their counterpart.
Its a belief no different then any political, scientific conservative, liberal, medical they are all beliefs. No belief is still a belief and if it has an agenda attached to it the proof only increases, even if your belief is a lie, you believe that the lie will work for you. No matter what your claims are they define who you our and they call them beliefs. You make the point that there is no reason for both parties to even argue because there is nothing to learn and so there is no argument, just beliefs.
A person usually forms beliefs on what ever they see, hear, and experience over a long period of time. I understood this when I worked with a few teens. What ever they were taught to believe by adults, they actually believe it. Whether it was good or bad, they were convinced it was right. Even if they were very emotionally, physically abused. It is there own personal truth what someone believes and until they are read to let go of their belief it is the truth to them.
This is a strange argument. Just because someone can be "converted," it does not follow that the belief they converted to is a religious one. It's called changing your mind as the evidence changes. Playing a word game serves no purpose.
Religion is following a doctrine, an order, or set practice. Faith involves practice but focuses on a constant learning process that pertains to your growth and improvement. One believes X will determine salvation. The other finds X in their life and learns and grows and improves their life. Imagine saying the same prayer every day instead of talking to God and praying on something different each day. Both are not bad to some extent but when it becomes a man made purpose to serve Earthly reason you are no longer following God but a man made policy. Sin is meant to be recognized as a problem in your life to overcome. This requires forgiveness and the attempt to not repeat the mistake. Many choose it as condemnation and there is a sin in this if you can not forgive yourself or others and get past it. One should be a believer in order to learn not because they are a sinner or the World is going to end because some man said so. One has to determine their own personal relationship with God and to some extent not allow others to determine what you must do in order to find salvation. A priest is not a doctor who can save your soul by following his prescription. You have to determine what's wrong with your life and make the necessary corrections. The Bible is a living testament often read out of context because you must read and live it to find its message for your life. For example I find that many of the stories are examples with some being completely imperfect based on the story of the individual. They lived under very different conditions with many different rules but I constantly see people comparing their lives as being perfect. David for example made many mistakes and one can not dispute those portions of the story as being good but learn from it.
It is sensible when an atheist argues that religious beliefs must be challenged and exposed..."must pass the scrutiny test" and all. I often find that there's always a fine line between the religion and those who follow it, which is not often taken into consideration.
Many religious folk are ignorant of their own religion and commit grave actions in the name of their God. Many have manipulated God and religion to serve their own twisted means and so on. I find that their religions do not endorse such actions at all.
It is nonsensical to generalize any group...even atheists and agnostics. A theist-antitheist debate has never ended on good terms...it only permits a scope to grow more harsher and dogged next time.
However, the sparks appear when the atheist tries to prove the non-existence of God by turning the actions of God against God itself. They have their own examples of 'the actions of God'...sometimes confused with the actions of man. Then questions are raised about intellect and personal integrity...from both sides.
A youtube atheist once defined Atheism as 'a purely intellectual and refutational stance' yet there are atheists who have turned to atheism only because it's 'the cool new thing' or 'the new religion'...even when it isn't either! I guess the main crux of all these debates is how well you can defend your position and represent your belief/nonbelief.
What I find odd is the belief of nothing and creation of facts out of theories. I never argue these from a Biblical stand point because they are just as easily dismissed by common sense. Another wasted argument is choice verses the problem in the first place. You would not need a moral or ethical debate if you had made the right choice in the first place that created the problem. Then comes the what if to find any justification as if, (what ifs), justify the choice to keep the entire problem. What I have learned is that knowing what the problem is does not matter to those who do not care about creating the problem in the first place. Its no surprise that people profit from fraud, bankruptcy, porn, gambling, legal and illegal drug abuse, broken homes and broken people. Its no surprise that no one from the top to the bottom cares if anyone profits or can even survive below them. When you get right down to it we are one sick nation and I am not surprised that I see death as my only hope of getting out of this place. If I was God I would have given up on this planet a long time ago. The belief in nothing has created exactly that.
What do you mean by "belief in nothing?" Do you mean atheism? If so, it's wrong to say that atheists believe in nothing. I believe in love, democracy, and rock & roll. I don't believe in the supernatural.
I also believe I'll have another beer.
Nihilists believe in nothing, atheists refuse to believe in religion. There is a difference...
Nihilists? Say what you will about National Socialism, but at least it's an ethos.
[nahy-uh-liz-uhm, nee-] Show IPA
total rejection of established laws and institutions.
anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity.
total and absolute destructiveness, especially toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler's last years.
an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
nothingness or nonexistence.
( sometimes initial capital letter ) the principles of a Russian revolutionary group, active in the latter half of the 19th century, holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination
[ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
1565–75; < Greek áthe ( os ) godless + -ist
an·ti·a·the·ist, noun, adjective
pro·a·the·ist, noun, adjective
Can be confused: 1. agnostic, atheist (see synonym note at the current entry ); 2. atheist, theist, deist.
Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.
Yeah, just ask Geithner and Deutsche Bank.
Let's see now. If I believe in....Bugs Bunny, how does my belief affect someoneone else? If I believe that it is bad luck to walk under a ladder....how is that harmful...seems like it is damn good safety advice! If I believe that a black cat crossing my path is bad luck? Harmful to others? Breaking a mirror? List the things you think are harmful beliefs or superstitions. They seem innocuous to me.
" If I believe that it is bad luck to walk under a ladder....how is that harmful...seems like it is #%&# good safety advice! "
Generally, if you keep your beliefs to yourself, they are not harmful, but when you start to try to convert others to your Bugs Bunny cult, or get legislation passed that favors Bunny-ists, then we have a problem.Or if you decide to start killing black cats because you believe that, since they're the same color as Daffy Duck, they're evil, then we also have a problem. More seriously, if you believe your kid's cancer can be cured through prayer and not by an oncologist, then we have a problem.
In a more general sense, if one is willing to believe in, say, the healing power of crystals, then one is more likely to be taken in by other forms of hucksterism, such as homeopathy and acupuncture. It may be just between you and your acupuncturist, but if you claim it works, then other fools will soon be parted from their money. Example: Survivorman Les Sroud, I read on his web site, contracted an intestinal parasite. Rather than being treated by a doctor, he took a homeopathic remedy and suffered with this parasite FOR A YEAR. Homeopathy makes no supernatural claims, but when one is willing to fall for one sort of woo, one is more likely to fall for another.
What a joke.
Christians do more than pray.
Prayer works AFTER the operation failed, and we do believe in using what God gives us.
I have a commandment to tell the world the good news of Christ.
People can choose for themselves and I'm doing nothing different than a blogger.
I don't send repeat harassment email, and have freedom of speech rights.
What's next? You going to tell me I can't build a Church on my own property because you're afraid someone might think it's pretty, walk in and be happy about believing in God because YOU don't believe it?
Take my freedom of speech? please....... Threat of death isn't enough to stop my testimony.
Get over yourself man. The day the name Christ Jesus the Son of God isn't professed from my mouth is the day this body will be dead, and I'm with Christ.
You must still be asleep.. Tell peter-pan hey while you're dreaming for me..
I don't recall ever saying that you shouldn't have your 1st Amendment rights, but understand that having freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to interfere with my "quiet enjoyment," to use a real estate phrase. If you stood on the street in front of my house with a megaphone, telling me Christ's good news, would you be within your rights? No, because you'd be interfering with my right to peace and quiet. Would you be within your rights to come to my door and proselytize? Yes, but with some restrictions, such as a solicitor's permit, and if I tell you to go away, you must do it, or I can sic my dachshund on you.
I'm not going to tell you you can't build a church on your property (as long as you respect your local zoning laws). I'm not sure the point you're trying to make, but I will repeat my assertion that when your beliefs affect others they can be harmful. Let's say you build that church, and start attracting people, and some of them decide to give you all their money, leaving their children in need of food and shelter. Has your belief become harmful? Yes. Let's say you start offering healings, but only for a hefty donation. Has your belief become harmful? Yes, especially if people believe falsely that they have been healed of some malady and then forgo medical treatment. Islamic fundamentalism is a religious belief. Is it harmful?
I'm not saying you don't have a right to your beliefs. I'm saying belief in the supernatural isn't always harmless.
Let's just dismiss your dramatized example considering it contradicts what 'good' is which is what Christ teaches.. Good.
Thank you. And supernatural can be harmful.. Demons are supernatural.
But Christ Jesus, nor believing and following Him is in any way harmful.
Nightwork. What if an atheist started believing in God because a deist made sense?
If you saw someone trapped in a cage of guilt, who wouldn't want to help set that mind free.
Not if they are guilty of the crime.
Go on, tell the murderer it's ok, and he isn't bad. that he is just confused and it's ok to be what he was....
Set him free of guilt so he can go do it again.
They need Jesus, just like you. Because all are guilty of doing SOMETHING wrong and they will be screwing up the rest of their lives because they are human..
And you are going to tell them, it's ok to screw up.. it's normal not to overcome things and just take some medication.. everyone else pops three to ten a day. I guess i'm normal now.
then when 'humans' forget and don't fill the presciption on time they go on a shooting frennzy
They need to feel they are not inadequate and thier "beliefs" are sound. I have found that athiests tend to be very morose and angry, my opinion on the matter is that they have something against God, something happened in their life to create this anger and they pushed the Creator away rather than pulled him to the]m like He wanted. We all have had trials in our life, it is how we come out of it that matters.
So when you can't answer objections, you claim there is something personal going on? This is known as the genetic fallacy, which focuses on the origin of a belief, rather than the reasoning behind it.
Now, if you were to make a rock-solid case for God, that any rational person should accept, and atheists still denied it, then you could use that as an explanation for the lack of rationality. However, due to the fact this hasn't been done, the genetic fallacy has been committed.
Atheists are guilty of this too. They claim oh theists are paranoid about dangers in the world, or they have a higher fear of death (both true, according to psychological studies). However, I could not simply say that, and then expect anyone to be convinced. I would need to engage in the arguments for God's existence and show that they are lacking.
You simply don't understand. Atheists don't push God away. We are not angry at God. One can't be angry at something that does not exist. For atheists it's like trying to explain to someone to not pay $50 for a pet rock. You're being taken advantage of and it confuses most of us. Imagine being told if you don't contribute to the pet rock fund every week your going to live eternity in a fiery hell and you watch as others fall for the scam.
A lot of atheists are either mad or disgusted with religion. For some reason, most atheists seem to think that Islam & Christianity represent the "God Theory" and all religions.
Many atheists can't understand simple things like: "to be real and/or to exist, everything doesn't have to be an object with a location," and the list goes on and on...
I like how you spoke about a rock because that seems to be one of the few things that many closed-minded atheists believe in.
Of course, agnostics are excluded from this comment, as this applies to the "strong atheists" as they call it nowadays; LOL!
You guys and your titles are hilarious!
How can you possible know what an atheists think?
We can't understand simple things like "to be real and/or to exist". I understand both "real and exist".
Closed minded atheist? Are you open minded enough to entertain a world without a God? If you have proof I'll listen, can you say the same?
We believe in rocks? I have no idea what that means.
You said how can I possibly know what "an atheist" thinks, when asking that. If you notice, I use the terms 'a lot of' and 'many' and 'most' along with the terms 'strong atheists' and so on...
No, you obviously don't understand what is real, if things can only exist if they are an object with a location!
I mean, seriously, how much sense does that make?
And you want proof?
You can't even prove that all things that are real and/or exist, are merely an object with a location...
Yes, there is a "dead rock" religion out there, as I hope ya don't ever subscribe to it...
...Before you even reply, please tell me then, did your last thought exist? Oh, is it just a concept? Either way, unless you can put an X & Y coordinate to it, then surely what you say back never existed, right?
Silly things like this, many of y'all can't even comprehend.
Oh, it ain't an object, it is a concept; it doesn't have a location, blah, blah!
Everything is always moving anyway, so you can't actually pinpoint an exact (X & Y) location Earth has, for example, when concerning the universe as a whole. I hate to sound so childish, but, uh, uh, duh!
Yawn. I noticed you said ya'll. Is that so nobody will know you are a Yankee?
WD Curry 111 is extremely prejudice and constantly insulting people that doesn't live in Florida or that doesn't take up for his/her beliefs... Please forgive IT. I'd hate to know ITs true concept of humanity, especially after reading ITs hateful remarks in the past that claims that nobody should spout off in the forums unless they have a certain amount of hubs written. He/She/It also claims that only Yankees run their mouth in such a way, that it offends his/her homies that lack education; ha-ha!
Oh, WD will send you an e-mail, just ask IT.
WD used to surf, too, and evidently detests people that think for their own selves, as the only righteous ones are the ones WD Curry believes in via online social-network-adhesion and/or delirious cohesions of self-proclaimed greatness.
Just think, you *yawn* while I stretch and exhale...
You didn't hate that last line.. lol
C'mon.. children are the zest of life anyway..
Insane Mundane, you seem a little insulting and rude. I believe in many things that I can not see. Air, Molecules, Atoms, Elections, other planets... I can't see them, but they are there. Science has not yet been able to disprove their existence. They try.
Dead rock religion, perhaps I'll use your tone here. Which one of us is most likely to fall for such nonsense? The sceptic or the believer in a God without any proof?
You have no Idea what any let alone most atheists think. If you've never been an atheist then you haven't walked in my shoes. I've walked in a christians shoes and I still to claim to know what most think.
Perhaps you shouldn't be trying to take the moral ground before you are aware of all the facts. For instance, Atheists make up about 16% of the American population, but make up less then 1% of prison inmates. Either Atheists are morally superior or are smarter and don't get caught.
You show respect and I'll do the same!!!!
air molecules electrons and planets? never seen any of that?
trees blowing because of air..
electron microscope photography? no?
science can't DISPROVE their existence? lol science is what PROVES they are there IN THE FIRST PLACE.
and planets? are you kidding or serious? ever heard of the hubble??
CAN'T SEE IT?
It's the biggest eyeball in the world.
I think you're fighting yourself here friend.
and you're giving ample proof on exactly what you 'aren't' thinking of.
maybe we'll start with process of elimination to determine the opposite.
I love you brother, but I don't think this is an area of gifting for you. You might do better to break up some loaves and fishes during the preaching. This kind of debate is counter productive.
I wasn't quite aiming for debate. I just meant I believe he is shooting himself in the foot with some of what he writes. lol I love you too WD and I get what you mean but I was just saying that thoughts are exactly what these posts are.
I was't intending to be pushy, but rather make a point without getting in the middle of those two. I just didn't, and still don't, see the logic the in the statements. Indirect evidence is still evidence.. end of story.
You can use me for a joke prop when you two are fishing brother.
Really... really? You've seen these things with our own eyes? A picture of an atom is no different than a picture of Jesus. Have you ever seen an electron with you own eyes? What about Pluto? I can safely say these eyes have not seen air, molecules or electrons with my naked eye. Perhaps you have better eye site?
"With my own eyes" no, I haven't seen an electron, but I have seen evidence that they exist: electron micrographs, etc. When you get right down to it, there's comparitively very little I've witnessed firsthand. I only know JFK existed because of evidence: news reports, documentaries, eyewitness accounts, etc. Also, I've seen at least a few things that probably weren't real. We call them halluncinations. Seeing isn't always believing.
Haven't seen air? I guess you've not been to LA. :-D
How do I not have any idea what a lot of atheists think, when I read and hear their comments quite often?
You seem to be having trouble...
If you notice, I plainly said I was referring to the so-called "strong atheists."
Also, when I spoke about the ones that have trouble understanding reality and/or what is real or exists, I was talking about the ones who use that object/concept crap that I call the "dead rock religion," to try and explain everything.
By the way, there is no accurate way to collect prison inmate data, when concerning religion... A lot of people convert to religion while there, and anybody can claim to be whatever, upon entry. However, most folks with beliefs are willing to fight and defend them, as in they just don't float around claiming to be a monkey without a cause. I wouldn't say that it would promote theft or rape, for example.
Anyway, it sounds like you have some severe bias towards non-atheists, especially with your claim that y'all may be smarter or morally superior, which I find to be quite hilarious, as if names & titles would automatically dictate such.
Rude? How am I being rude and insulting?
This is a forum, so things don't always involve holding hands and singing Kumbaya.
Why would you think someone is having trouble understanding reality or what exists? Do you think because they don't believe in god they must not understand simple concepts? That is insulting. Do you think you are smarter than them or me?
Why would you say that I have some severe bias towards non-atheists? My wife is a non-atheists as are all my friends and family.
I never made the claim that (y'all may be smarter or morally superior). Never said it and don't think it.
Your bible is full of contractions and fallacies. One one hand promoting love and respect and on the other giving direction on what can be done with the women of a beaten society or how long to keep your slaves. I'm not saying you personally promote these things however they are part of the book christians use to justify and verify there belief in God.
You have no idea, evidently...
Perhaps you haven't encountered the beliefs of certain "strong atheists."
I doubt if your wife sits around and talks about objects vs. concepts, either.
Your reply is as twisted as it is bent, and you ignore and dodge the fact that you didn't understand and took my original replies wrong.
By the way, are you serious?
You plainly said, unless HubPages fabricated your comment, that "Either Atheists are morally superior or are smarter."
Those are your words, not mine.
Yeah, my comment before this one should make even more sense now...
So now you start insulting my wife's intelligence and thoughtfulness.
I didn't say Atheist are smarter and morally superior. I showed you statistics to humanize us and asked a question using the statistics.
Are you okay? Seriously... Now you say that I'm insulting your wife?
Your reply is obviously just a figment of your imagination, as I honestly don't even know what in the hell you are talking about...
(I doubt if your wife sits around and talks about objects vs. concepts, either.)
What was that? I don't think this conversation is going anywhere. We are speaking different languages.
You make no sense. You don't understand your own comments, although you think you do. You don't see how you are insulting.
Here's the thing Rad Man. I see your point. I get your drift. Like you don't get what it means to exist if you don't believe in God. Hello?! You don't have to believe in God, all you have to do is hit your toe with a hammer, "I exist!"
I love the Lord. The Lord says you are good enough to love just like you are. Do you want to go fishing? Make it just the two of us. If you bring a Baptist with you, I won't be able to drink your beer.
No that's not what I mean't about REAL or EXIST. I just didn't understand the way the words were used. Tell someone because he is an atheist he doesn't understand what is real? I had no point to make. It just made no sense. I don't know what it means to exist? Sure I do. Any reasonable person above 5 years old does.
I also don't understand the fishing thing. I have baptist friends and I have muslim friends. What does drinking have to do with that. I've seen both drink. Crap, didn't Jesus turn water into wine?
Are you from up north? That is an old Southern Baptist joke. It goes, "If you want to take a Baptist fishing . . . take two . . . then they won't drink your beer."
It is funny, Because Baptists are supposed to be tea teetotalers, but they might sneak off and have a nip when no one is looking. Of course, God is always looking, so they really aren't getting away with anything.
If you need me to explain anything else, just let me know!
Thanks for that WD. It is funny because I have a muslim friend who (as you may no) are not allowed to drink. But they are also not allowed to be rude and it would be rude to refuse an offering from a host. So if someone offers a drink it would be rude to say no. He gets around the no drinking rule. That's another reason I think most people don't by into the stuff they say. I'm from way up north. Over the border north.
I appreciate your attitude. Here in Central Florida we have FIT. Foreign . . . I mean Florida . . . Institute of Technology. How many times have I seen young people from strict middle eastern countries run amuck on their $2500 a week allowance?
It is the same for the atheist. An atheist is held to a high standard, since he alone is responsible for his moral convictions and behavior. An atheist is not dissuaded from sin because of the fear of divine punishment, but because of reason. Many people of faith miss this dynamic. Most American atheists are fair in their everyday treatment of others. They tend to follow the golden more out of instinct.
That's why I said, "Let's go fishing."
I could have said let's build a community health center, and we would have a great time working on it. Don't mind the church ladies bringing the food. It tastes just as good to everyone!
Or it's like telling someone that the rock comes for free, and then finding that the person not only refuses to take the rock (fair enough) but also denies it's existence, when you are standing on that rock with both feet firmly planted.
Believers like 'rock' analogies!
The rock does not come for free does it? It want a percentage of my earnings. I'll deny the existence of a pet rock. My dog appreciates that. I'm not standing on a pet rock.
Actually the Rock requires no % of earnings, least not required in scripture, Churchianity may try to get you to tithe a %, but scripture does not.
Fact is when we come to faith, we recognise that ALL of our resources come with the Grace of God, and they are His, given to us to manage for Him here.
God owns the lot, not some paltry % that Churchianity claims in it's attempt to build bigger churches and add members.
Having said that, once we accept the situation as it is, God also pays all our needs in the world, which we have disengaged from.
It's a great deal to broker!
Christ is THE ROCK upon which we stand or get broken against.
You have chosen to deny that, so be it.
Yes, I've chosen to not take advantage of the week minded suckers. It's almost christian of me. As I remember it is said that Jesus instructed his disciples to remain without sandals.
You remember correctly:
And do not take a provision bag or a wallet for a collection bag for your journey, nor two undergarments, nor sandals, nor a staff; for the workman deserves his support (his living, his food).
That is what I refer to, when you are 'in' Christ, your needs are met, however as you choose to follow yourself and whatever you DO believe, so be it.
It would be nice if people could stop stereotyping.Christian is a broad term that encompasses many different beliefs that do not all agree.
That is why we(Christians) even debate amongst ourselves because of difference in opinion over bible interpretation.
Christians do not all do,believe or practice the same things..even WE see the hypocrisy being perpetrated by people claiming the title of Christian..it is plastered all over tv and newspapers.
There is nothing we can do about it, we all get lumped into the same category as Pastor Soandso who cheated,defrauded his parishioners and spent the money on prostitutes..yup,that's what they all do, stereotypical christians..we all go door to door and hound are neighbors to turn or burn.
I do not talk to all Atheists as though they are criminals even though there have been criminals that are Atheists.
A whole group of people are not responsible or accountable for the actions taken by an individual.
I wish we could stop seeing people as a group and see them as an individual..instead of pigeonholing everyone.
Christians are ridiculed for the mistakes of other christians.
Joe Atheist ripped me off so I guess all Atheists are thieves..yeah that makes sense.
Carol Christian cheated on her husband so..I guess all christian women are adulterers.
Christian does not equal perfect or superhuman any more than Atheist does.We make mistakes.We are human.
We get aggravated when people go slow in the fast lane,we are human.
We may even flip somebody off that cuts off while we are driving,should we? No..but we are not superhuman..we make mistakes.
People are always looking and waiting for us to get mad,curse,make a mistake.. so they can say, Aha!..See there!Christians suck!
Well guess what..We all suck!
We all need to try to do better.
Yes Christians suck, and still sin..
But Christianity is one belief only - irregardless if people disagree, Christ taught a consistent teaching..
If it doesn't match the Word of God, The Holy Bible.. It ISN'T Christian doctrine.. And many twist the words, but it doesn't change them. Or their meaning.
I agree we all suck,, but if one truly loves Christ they should be doing the best they can for Christ..
Good points, btw.
We don't necessarily convert people in that sense, We simply explain our stand on religion as well as other things and the person on the other end of the conversation makes their own choice whether to denounce religion or not.
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