Getting into Heaven...

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   Indigitalposted 11 years ago

   Why is it "God loves all his children", "God forgives all sinners", yet you do not follow the religion and you're not allowed into heaven? Or are you? I haven't really read that part of the Bible..

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      Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Love is a two way street or a dual-edged sword. You must love God back, and to demonstrate your love, you must adopt the teachings of Jesus Christ through faith into your life.

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      Greg Seredaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Forgiveness is conditional. God will forgive anyone and everyone, IF they ask for it and repent from their sins. The natural result from doing so will lead someone to obey God, which will make them fit for paradise.

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   lone77starposted 11 years ago

   @Indigital, it's not about following mortal "religion." There are so many conflicting interpretations of scripture and likely none of them are right. There's truth there, but no one is digging hard enough.
   
   God loves His children, all right, but they are not Homo sapiens. His children were created in His image -- non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation. But our great fall in the Garden trapped us in ego (the "master" of this world). Remember the "tree" of "good" and "evil." Ego is made up of all of the mortal dichotomies.
   
   So many of the so-called "Christians" follow ego, rather than God or Christ. In fact, that's something I struggle with, too.
   
   The Kingdom of God (Heaven) is within you. It is dead asleep in most of us and cannot be awakened unless we forsake the master of this world -- ego. But this is tough to do. That's why so few have really made it, so far.
   
   Jesus spoke of this when he said that those who try to save themselves will surely die (hell). Ego is something people instinctively protect for it is easily bruised; it remains vulnerable. But the true self (child of God) within is invulnerable.
   
   Was Gautama Siddhartha (Buddha) following Christ when he made his breakthrough under the Bodhi tree? What does "following Christ" really mean? I suspect he did and he remains an inspiration to us all. But Siddhartha struggled to get there. Christ's sacrifice makes it easier for us. It gives us an example of what we must do -- give up the attachments to this world -- all of them. You can remain in the world, but you must not be "of the world."
   
   Ego covers the gamut of the mortal world -- from the suicide perpetrator (perhaps the most selfish act one can do) all the way up to the tyrant (like Hitler, Attila the Hun, Stalin, Pol Pot and others). Ego is evil, but also mortal "good" for it likes to be seen as good in the eyes of others. That's also selfishness.
   
   It's not so much not being "allowed" into heaven. It's perhaps more like not being able to cart your excess baggage into the timeless, spaceless realm of creation. Ego won't fit there any more than the ocean can fit in a thimble. It's not so much someone preventing you as you deciding to cling to that which cannot ever fit there.
   
   It's your decision. And it's that easy to set out on the right path.

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   vector7posted 11 years ago

   One name...
   
   Jesus Christ
   
   It's within the heart of a man or woman that determines their destination.
   
   People make mistakes in this world. God knows that, and sent Jesus Christ as a way to save us from those mistakes..
   
   IF: We TRULY love God above all, and TRULY love our neighbor as ourselves. Those are the two Laws Jesus Christ narrowed all the Laws down to. Christ IS THE PHYSICAL FORM of those Laws in perfection, and it is Him who decides who gets in.
   
   We were all banned, because we don't love God because of sin, as introduced by "Satan" who everyone thinks is so cool now... and don't love our neighbor as ourself because of sin as well. Sin is disobedience to these two Laws of God.
   
   BUT. When Satan screwed things up, God made an Old Agreement (Old Testament) - which paved the path for Christ Jesus to come save us - And a New Agreement (New Testament) - which is when Christ Jesus actually came to save us.
   
   Jesus is how anyone is saved, and they are only saved if they come to Him humbly and accept His gift of life and follow Him. His choice is determined by what He sees in your heart.
   
   
   NO OTHER PERSON SAID I AM THE WAY TO LIFE. They say, this or that is the way to God.
   
   JESUS says I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO GOD BUT THROUGH ME.
   
   Anyone Jesus says doesn't get into Heaven, doesn't get there..
   
   Any questions, I'd be glad to answer. Email is on my page.
   
   God bless.
   
   

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      vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, let me clear this up. Wherever it is exactly God has planned good things for us, Jesus Christ and whether you believe in Him and follow Him is the determining factor. The kingdom of God, that will certainly be what you're looking for.
      
      Jesus Christ said to seek first the kingdom of God and all the other things you need will be given to you.
      
      Where He puts His kingdom has no point here. It's useless to make an argument about specifics.
      
      The other place is certainly not the option you want, and that is the point Jesus made.
      
      God is good and happiness will abound no matter where you are when you are with Him. The idea of happiness, which is what Heaven generally is, is still the same no matter the place's name.
      
      

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         recommend1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         you are offering to 'clear this up' 
         
         Dear babbling brook, let me clear a few things up for you.  Translating and interpreting the bible is not for the weak minded blind follower, it requires intelligence and analytic skills.  As DH points out, even a few punctuation marks added by the catholic church here and there completely change the meaning of the shortest sentence.
         
         Spouting from ignorance is just an expression of your own ego.
         
         Those who spend their lives trying to get into heaven are assured to be those who do not make it. The fact that there is no heaven is immaterial,  the point still holds true.

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            vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Calling me weak minded and unintelligent is not kind.
            
            Thank you for your opinion, but I believe I'll let the readers make their own decisions about what I have said.
            
            I have no use for your insults.
            
            [edit-addition]: and for clarification, the "clearing up" was in regards to my own statement above the post, hence the reason it is directly below my own post and not that of another's post. I wanted to be clear on my meaning in the original post.
            
            Cheers
            
            

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               recommend1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I only call what I see.  continuously posting hallelujah rubbish about your personal delusions is spamming and self promotion - there are sites for that, this is a forum for discussion.  If you say something you can expect it to be argued with, and if you continuously spout rubbish and only make snide remarks when that rubbish is shown to be so - then you display a weak mind and your subject matter is illustration of yhour intelligence level.
               
               I guess others rarely consider get around to making any decision as I doubt anyone reads your spam other than like-weak-minded individuals.

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                  vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  lol, if i'm doing something wrong friend then report me.
                  
                  otherwise please leave me alone, the topic of the thread is not me.
                  
                  

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   Disappearingheadposted 11 years ago

   According to the bible, nobody goes to Heaven. Just let that sink in for a moment.
   
   
   We live, we die, we rot in the grave, and Jesus said that those who believe in Him, He will raise up on the last day. That is there are two resurrections; the first with Him, the second to appear before the Great White Throne. It's also why Paul was at great pains to stress the resurrection; that without it those who have died are lost. Going to Heaven upon death makes resurrection redundant and Jesus a liar.
   
   Now before someone quotes Jesus turning to the thief on the cross where he "Said", "I tell you the truth, today you will see me in paradise". In the original Greek there were no punctuation marks; these were added centuries later by the Church where they saw fit. So simply move the comma from before "today" to after "today", and we get a COMPLETELY different reading of this verse. Besides which common sense should tell us that if Jesus was dead in the grave for three days, how could he meet the thief in paradise on day one?

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      Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The end of the story is a surprise. Has to do with sheep and a corral, a light leading the way and the devil comin' up from behind with that damn pitchfork.

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      AEvansposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you. Nobody has gone to heaven, except for Paul. But I read in the Bible our souls sits in waiting and our bodies go back to the earth. This is something that I have to address with the Pastor of our church, because there are to many Christian churches who are skipping over the exact word of God to pamper our egos when someone dies.

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         Druid Dudeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Not sure about Paul. I think John and George beat him.

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            AEvansposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Lolol! I was waiting for that!

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         Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         AE, you are so right that many Christian Churches like to pamper our egos when someone dies. I've lost count of the number of times the pastor says that a believer is now in glory singing with angels, or someone else is now in hell.
         
         When God created man he made him out of material dust, then God breathed His breath [Ruach] into him so that he became a living soul. It's the breath of God that gives life to inanimate chemicals and minerals we call a human body.
         
         David said in Psalm 104:29 "When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust."
         That breath is the breath of life God gave.
         
         Paul said in Acts 17:25b he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
         again
         Acts 17:27 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of
         your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
         It's only God keeping us alive by His breath that we live.
         
         Colossians 1:16-17 "For by him [Jesus] all things were created: things in
         heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or
         rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is
         before all things, and in him all things hold together."
         Here we are told that Jesus literally holds us together, and by inference of the other verses it's his breath that does it.
         
         Thus when we die, the breath of God is withdrawn back to Himself. Now I  argue that our soul is simply the workings of the human brain, that stops working when the brain dies, thus we are merely material beings only and have no spirit at all. This is what Genesis, Ecclesiastes, and Psalms says to me.
         
         However, the idea of us simply dying and not existing in any conscious state for a few thousand years makes for an uncomfortable thought; we are entirely dependent on God one day breathing His life back into us at resurrection. We like to think we have an immortal spirit that goes somewhere, but I find no biblical evidence for this.

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            vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Just a consideration for everyone.
            
            Matthew 17:1-5
            
            

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               Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               In verse 9,  And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.'
               
               The Greek uses the word 'horama' (vision), Strongs #3705 supernatural vision, sight from God. A Vision simply denotes something that is 'seen' or imagined, and does not define reality. It can represent something that is not real. Thus a vision of Elijah and Moses does not determine that the spirits of these two were actually present.

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                  vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Luke 20:34-38
                  
                  John 8:51-52 (says it twice here)
                  
                  I will not see death.
                  
                  Jesus Christ says it Himself.
                  
                  

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                     Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Nobody actually sees death because death cannot be experienced. One can only experience something if the brain is alive and processing. Once dead, there is no experience.

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            Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I'm surprised by your post. I think you are right, in that ceasing to exist is an uncomfortable idea. But, off the top of my head, I can think of three or four biblical passages that support the idea of continuation of our essence past the physical death. How did you resolve these (and I'm sure others), to come to your conclusion?

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               Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Emile I've searched for evidence from the bible about immortal spirits living on post mortem, but I honestly can't find anything that makes any explicit statement. There may be some verses that some might interpret as evidence, but what I've found, especially in the Hebrew scriptures, points much more strongly to a state of being dead or asleep until a resurection.
               
               Ecclesiastes 3
                18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath[c]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” 22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot. For who can bring them to see what will happen after them?
               
               V21 doesn't provide evidence for an immortal consciousness because that would contradict the rest of the passage. It seems to me a rhetorical question where the author is challenging anyone who thinks they are certain that they have an immortal spirit.

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            vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, missed a key one.
            
            Matthew 27:52-53
            
            

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               Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               This is a resurection of those that have "fallen asleep". God has breathed life into their bodies just as he said he could in the valley of dry bones. Fallen asleep denotes oblivion, not consciousness after death, and does not mean immortal spirit living on in some ethereal location waiting to be reimplanted into a body.

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                  vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Unconscious people went into a city?
                  
                  For what?
                  
                  I believe they were conscious saints,
                  
                  52 - "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
                  
                  53 - And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
                  
                  John 11:25-26
                  
                  Jesus IS the resurrection.
                  
                  Again He says those who are alive and believe in
                  Him will never die.
                  
                  I don't think He is talking poetically friend.
                  
                  Those who were dead, and believed, before His resurrection, were resurrected, those that are alive that believe in Him..  JESUS SAYS HIMSELF... They will never die.
                  
                  I believe in Jesus, He said I'll never see death because I believe in Him, therefore, I will never see death.
                  
                  
                  

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                     vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     lol, and yes my fallen body will die..
                     
                     I mean that "I" will not die.
                     
                     

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                        Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I never said unconscious people went into the city. I said they were resurrected because God breathed life back into them.
                        
                        Paul emphasised that without a resurection, in which he hoped for as a future event, the dead in Christ were lost. He recognised they were dead, temporarily asleep. Jesus said that those that believed in him would be raised up on the last day, not before.
                        
                        John 11:  25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, EVEN THOUGH THEY DIE; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
                        
                        Note, the one believing will die first, then live after the resurection, and after the resurection will ever die again.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   I had the chance to go to heaven, but I didn't like the color scheme.I said, "I got to go in there? It is all yellow and pink. I don't like that at all. Give me the old blue sky." Someone said, "It is that or nothing, take it or leave it". So that is why I am still here and not in heaven, I didn't like the decor.

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   Paul Wingertposted 11 years ago

   When I growing up I heard all the horror stories of people going to hell more often than heaven. Then there's stories on how Satan wants to over run Heaven. You'd think that after thousands of years, Satan would have more than enough manpower to take over Heaven many times over.

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      vector7posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Numbers and victory have no association.
      
      Reference Israel in the Bible.
      
      God created everything. Including Heaven.
      
      The concept he ever had a chance is a lie.
      
      It is impossible for God to die.
      
      

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         A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Speaking for God? You know that?

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   Jeramiposted 11 years ago

   Disappearinghead wrote
     Now before someone quotes Jesus turning to the thief on the cross where he "Said", "I tell you the truth, today you will see me in paradise". In the original Greek there were no punctuation marks; these were added centuries later by the Church where they saw fit. So simply move the comma from before "today" to after "today", and we get a COMPLETELY different reading of this verse
   
     =====================
   ME
     I have not noticed this before .. thanks for pointing it out..   BUT ?             I most respectfully reply, My thoughts are....
    
      According to Daniel's visions; What has come to be called the rapture will happen when the fourteenth "King" of the FOURTH kingdom comes to his end.                Daniel 11:45  "AT THAT TIME"  The Roman Empire and Hadrian.
         And  Revelation says that 144,000 will be taken
           Both speaks of the same even.
     Jesus says that "This" generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.
   
      Rev. 14. the 144.000 are already with Christ when they come to earth  and then there is a great harvest. First resurrection?  V13  Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord  FROM  HENCEFORTH  that they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them.
   
     Sounds to me that life goes on as normally here on earth, except that after the 1st resurrection, when a person dies in the Lord they go straight to heaven. As it says in the book of Revelation, they have no part in the second recurrection.
     Rev. 20  ... And the saints reign with Christ, IN Heaven.  THEN
   
     1000 years pass ( Maybe it already has? ) and then the 6th trumpet is sounded and Satan, the Beast and False prophet go out to gather together the kings of the earth together for battle.
   
      When watching the news on TV, I think that this is where we are at in prophesy.
   
      Which would mean ...  for more than 1000 years, when a person died in the Lord, they did bypass the grave and go straight to heaven.
   
      I would think this to be good news.
   
      In my mind, there is a definite timeline with prophesy.
      Every one of these prophesy is NOT compressed into a seven year period as religion would have us to believe.
        I believe, When I die...  I am going straight to heaven "IF" I make the cut.
     If I don’t I’ll be sleeping till the second resurrection.
   
     This is what I think and can't change it if I wanted to.

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   Jeramiposted 11 years ago

   Imagine this very simply. don't overanalize.
   
     Suppose that God created everything Cause God IS everything.  And if we could move outside of God, we would be moving out from everything. There is no place else for us to be ?  LOL 
   
     ....  unless this is what dark matter is ??
   
     "To BE or NOT to be",      What if it is all that simple?

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