Stop waiting in vain.

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   maestrowhitposted 15 years ago

   Jesus is not coming back.
   
   There is a clear contradiction withing Christian theology, which can be found in the Bible. Christians believe that Jesus will some day return in the sky and take all the good Christians back to Heaven with Him. I know that's a very elementary version of the second-coming belief, but it generally sums it up.
   
   But you never hear Christians make reference to the specific words of Jesus that prove He has already returned a long long time ago. 
   
   I've reduced the scripture to specific verses for brevity's sake. You can look for yourself at the surrounding context and bring it to my attention if you please.
   
   Mark 13:
   26"Then they will see the son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
   27"And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
   ..........
   29"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
   30"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
   
   I've read several commentaries about this passage and there doesn't seem to be any solid consensus as to what Jesus means when He says this. Christians seem much more interested in all of the scripture that seems to contradict these words of Christ than they are in the words of Christ Himself. Rather than believe Jesus, they believe the contradiction.
   
   John 6
   68 Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
   
   I agree with Simon Peter. When faced with a contradiction, I side with Jesus every time.That's because His spirit lives within me. If something disagrees with His words, then something is wrong - and it isn't Jesus. Christianity seems to be built on ignoring the words of Christ when they don't fit with the rest of the Bible.
   
   Jesus returned in spirit form and lives among us already. The Kingdom of God is already in place right here. Stop waiting for death - live your life.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      While I understand what you are saying here, I have to say that you are wrong.  lol.
      Wrong because Jesus will come back, maybe not out of the sky scooping up all his unbeloving Christian counterparts but because His Spirit is not alive in everyone.
      
      If it were true, then the world would already feel like Heaven, but it doesn't.    Maybe one day everyone will be caught up (raptured) in the message of good and love (The Spirit of Jesus inside instead of outside) but I can see and feel with my own heart and eyes that Jesus is not here.
      
      He may be in you and in others as well and lots and lots of people for that matter but there is no Heaven...yet.  Just people walking on the foundation of Hell. 
      
      Sorry to be a party pooper! 

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         BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Sandra!  Good to see you again!
         
         It is intresting how people can come to such radically different conclusions, simply by picking and choosing which parts of the bible they want to believe based on their own experiences and ideas.
         
         For example it says in Acts chapter 1 ...
         9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
         
         And of course in Matthew 24 it says:
         30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
         
         
         Very view people can deny that the bible says this ... but everyone will interpret it and come to one conclusion or the other ...
         
         Then those who have one set of conculusions will then condemn those who have another set of conclusions to whatever bad fate awates them ...
         
         That's what I like about your "Your God" vs. "My God" philosophy.  It's primarily based in relationship.  Based on our relationship with God, you and I have come to different conclusions about a few things ... but the love you have for God is real, and that is of course, the first and greatest commandment.

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            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            True BDaz!  Good to "see" you too. lol. 
            
            I sorta figure that that part about Jesus being taken up in the clouds was like a low cloud (fog) that was so thick it made it look like he disapered. lol and since He was a Spirit, He just blended right in. LOL.
            
            So, I figure that when His Spirit comes back it will be a really foggy day!!!  Maybe something like the Apocolypse, when all the Earth's volcanos are erupting like it did billions of years ago when Earth was nearly bare and then it will start to rain and then there will be a lot of fog.  lol. 
            
            I have no idea really what it could be really but I was considering Meastros interpretation, while I agree, I also disagree. You know,  "On Earth as it is done is Heaven." 
            
            But I don't think Meastro would take any offense to it, he seems just like us too. 
            
            love you!!! 

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               BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Luv u 2!
               
               LOL ... This is one where I freely admit, I don't know.  I have an idea, that I share among my cloest friends, but it's somehting we study in depth together, where we're free to disagree without being made to feel stupid or wrong or unloved for that disagreemnt ... and then we find that we are really seing the same thing from different perspectives.
               
               I think it's kind of both and kind of neither ... like you say agree and disagree.

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                  maestrowhitposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks for your posts BDaz. You too are handling the discussion with respect and love. That's awesome. That's the kind of discussion i like. I'm tired of all these people fighting on here all the time. But if they want to attack me, I'll love them too.

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         maestrowhitposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         No, you're not being a party pooper. You stated your opposing opinion in a nice and loving way. That's what a good discussion is. And you have actually opened my eyes to a way of looking at this that I haven't thought of before. You're a sweet person. I don't think I could ever be hurt or offended by you. I really don't mind alternate view points. If they didn't exist, then I would have no reason to write threads like this. Thanks.
         
         I think I agree with you about most of what you wrote - maybe all of it. I guess my main point is that when Jesus talked about coming back, he was talking about something that He would do within the lifetimes of those to whom he was speaking. He clearly states that. So Christians who believe He was talking about something that has not yet happened are obviously ignoring His words. As for heaven on Earth, well, I think it does exist for some individuals, but clearly not for everyone. And it will most likely exist for the entire world some day.

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The prophet is expected .The universe will make it happen if its supposed to happen.
      
      
      THE NOW
      
      
      Living in the now is being one with god,
      Or else one is just a fraud.
      
      Live for now and plan for tomorrow,
      Otherwise expect sorrow.
      
      My dreams are my job,
      There none can rob.
      
      People who claim to be practical,
      Lost souls indeed theatrical.
      
      All your practicalities will seize to exist,
      The moment death you seize to resist.

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      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      maestrowhit I think it will be helpful for you to read back in Mark 13 because Jesus mentions all these things that will take place within that generation before He returns again.  A lot of people believe that we are in that generation right now.
      
      Quote from Mark 13:4 to 30
      
      
      Mike

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   BDazzlerposted 15 years ago

   BTW While I disagree with much of what Mestro has said, I do fully agree with this conclusion:
   
   The Kingdom of God is already in place right here. Stop waiting for death - live your life.
   
   Which is also interesting to me.

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   t.keeleyposted 15 years ago

   Maestro, another interesting look into something I never considered. I'm not sure I agree with you entirely, I do believe that there's an afterlife....it is a matter of perspective I think, but it's there. I believe we have heaven on earth, we are the kingdom here and now, and we can share in total fellowship with the God who created us. This is now, we are here and we should make the most of it. Doesn't mean we can't look forward to something after life here, which in my opinion makes dying less painful to me.
   
   Paul does say that he'd prefer dying than living, and generally speaking that's an absolute literal statement.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I figure life (nautre of the universe) gives us understanding of another life.  I consider foremost that it seems rather impossible for something to become nothing at all. 
      
      Like super novas or nebullas or stars or planets or galexies etc... When a super nova happens, the dying star sheds its' skins in one mighty boom and out it goes into the Universe.  Then we look at it in awe because it's so friggin beautiful.
      
      Or nebullas, just giant gas formations, free elements wondering about in the seemingly empy reaches of space like the Pillars of Creation, or the God's eye nebulla.  How in the world these explosions shed their skins and form such perfectly formed objects is beyond me and oh so fascinating.
      
      And again in those regions new star formations occur and on it goes.  So just like that (and this makes me feel happy) there doesn't seem to be any real death.  Everything seems to be remade. 
      
      I cannot seem to find one thing on Earth in Earth or outside our solar system and out into the pintacles of space, one thing that is there that was never there before.  I believe that God has his way of showing us just how beautiful death is.  A whole new beginning and to become of the many wonders that are in the makings of the Universe itself.
      
      It really does lead me to believe that the Spirit is in all mans consciousness and in ways that are at times unbeleivable to some and extrodinarilly strange and wonderful to others or just hidden in scripture. 
      
      God may exist completely outside our realm of phathomablility like trying to break the speed of light barrier...what would you expect to "see"?  lol. 
      
      Try an experiment.  It's really easy and sorta stupid but when you get it, you get it and if you don't then you don't. 
      
      Tonight or whenever, get under the covers or go somewhere where there is zero light.  Close your eyes and turn off the light or pull the blanket over your head. 
      Then open them. 
      
      This is what I imagine the next spiritual life to be.  You cannot see anything, for arguments sake, you cannot really touch anything because you cannot see it but you know it's there etc. 
      
      Whether your eyes or open or closed your thoughts work the same.  to me, it is the Spirit. 

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      There are generally two definations of heaven
      1-on earth itself
      2-on death
      I believe on death.back home with God.
      
      I like what Paul says
      
      When will you set me free?
      So that I can be with thee.

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   Jesus not coming back? Interesting, but, I think wrong. Your taking some verses to make a case does little justice to the (whole) biblical teaching. You seem to overlook many prophetic scriptures. On says that His feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives, and the "earth" will split in two (under His feet). That has not happened yet.
   Revelation talks of the New Heaven and New Earth. James says the old (present) one will be burned up. That hasn't happened yet either.
   You and I may not "see" now, how all this will be, and we may disagree on some points, but, time WILL tell. What is future, is purely "speculation" on our part.

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      maestrowhitposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You're doing exactly what I said Christians do. When Jesus' words don't fit with the rest of scripture, you ignore them. You must think that since Jesus only says it once, and the rest of the Bible says the contradiction many times, then those many times somehow outweigh the one time that Jesus says what He says.
      
      You're not arguing with me, man. You're arguing against the words of Jesus Christ. They are plain to see right there in front of you, but you would rather ignore them.

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