I read and hear stuff like that all the time. Of God's greatest miracles in the Bible, He never laid a hand on humans. In all His Majesty of inflicting Egypt, He never put His hand on the Pharaoh. Read those scriptures again. Slow down and read it carefully and "visualize" what's happening.
In the Tower of Babel, He never touched a soul. God is a Spirit, a Dynamic Force....to be feared but too pure to "touch" humans. He command with "Words" and it's the "force of nature" that does the physical-contacting on humans and creations by men.
There's actually a list of God's kill count. I could sart at the beginning but I'm way too lazy to type that much. If you should doubt me, look it up on google.
Think about the surreal of an event , God coming down to smote humans in the sight of men and the witnesses tell of no story how He did it in His true Being.
Man kill Man. Force of Nature kills man. Evil spirits kill Man. If God want you dead, all He has to do is "un-grace" you and either the spirits or the Force if Nature will have you dead. Quick.
And a disease may rot my eyes from their sockets but that's not God, it's nature's checks and balances. If one species population grows to large for it's environment, nature creates a counter measure; like bats to insects or dieases to rats.
....and who gave nature its' "check and balance"? Outside of order is chaos. The laws of nature can't be a uniformed force of perfection on its own. Of "nothing" is chaos.......your eye disease would be no need of itself if the "eye" wasn't there in the first place.
Because your eye is where it's at, its governed by the laws of nature. Anything of "law"..."nature" is by design from a Creator force of nature. Otherwise, you would be nothing which is a state of chose in it's nothingness.
I hope you realize just how silly this sounds!
Oh I don't know, maybe because of verses like this:
"So I will stretch out my hand and strike the Egyptians with all the wonders that I will perform among them. After that, he will let you go."
"12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt."
God says he is going pass through Egypt slaughtering innocent animals and children alike. Of course this literally doesn't mean God is stretching out a giant hand from the sky to squish people, but it is quite obvious that God IS meant to be literally killing people and animals in these verses. Whether God kills using physical force in the stories or not is irrelevant, he's still smiting innocent people left and right, condoning slavery and commanding genocide.
In a court of Law. If I order someone to kill a person and both I and the person gets caught, who gets the greater blame? Me or the person that actually done the killing?
In this sense, God's judgement is righteousness, but in the physical realm, we see humans killing humans, force of nature killing humans, freak accidents killing humans.
Why did God say to paint blood over your door so that He would go over it? Of course He could tell His people's house from the enemies meant to be killed. Therefore it was a "force of nature" doing the actual killing. The blood produced some sort of "chemical substance" that ward off whatever "mist" was in the air, doing the killing.
What about Charles Manson? He got the greater sentence, yet he didn't kill anyone. If it was brainwashing, then it isn't any different from indoctrination. People/madmen do what is expected of them, always trying to please, no matter how deranged the request.
He got the greater sentences because his followers (witnesses) told what he did. Who on earth can tell the story how God actually kill a human in His true form???? The force of nature did it. Who will report the force of nature to a court of Law? So that you know, God and the force of nature have power over mankind.
It looks like we're doing alright. We pretty much subjugated every other species on earth and have a pretty good handle on the ellements as well.
You have to learn to distinguish the spiritual realm from the physical realm. If a force of nature kill a human, it won't be as if that force of nature went looking for that particular individual.
The spirits and the force of nature will continue to move about according to the Laws of Nature --- if I'm a marked man and happened to walk down a street and find myself in the midst of a light pole falling to where I stood, because some drunk driver hit it. The pole fall and killed me ..... The nature of that happenstance is within the Laws of nature.
The spiritual realm got me kill if it was God's will I should die. The physical realm see my death as "unfortunate" and fault the drunk driver. His drunken spirit did him in, the spiritual realm did me in.
At no point can anyone say, God came down and smote me in His true Being.
Everything has a food group. Or do you know nothin of zootic relationships?
See, you lost it, there. This is why you are rootless from a spiritual standpoint. A food-chain or food group has nothing to do with the realms or the Laws of nature. Believe in God, sir. You need it for wisdom and guidance.
Do you reckon? I want to live in your world.
Perhaps it is far easier to blame God then admit that human nature has a dark side. It is far easier to blame something we believe is outside of ourselves rather than accept that it is us, it is our choices, it is our actions.
When God or Satan 'did it' it is far easier to believe we are somehow absolved and do not or will not suffer the consequences of what we might have chosen.
@jah u took stories too seriously...egypt ,wandering stories are myths which now israel archaeology too accepts...it all comes from summerians who wrote for entertainment...
Nice try. You misread what they said. They said the 10 Plagues didn't happened but an exodus did, to avoid a civil war between the Hebrews and the Egyptians. I'm still not ready to accept that without including the 10 Plagues, though.
But nowhere in the Ancient Egyptian writings is there any mention of 10 plaques, an exodus, or even the existence of Moses. You would think that these events would be something to write about. I'll have to agree with pisean282311 on this one.
Good point but it does not advance the belief that none of the miracles happened. Until you can show me just one written, Egyptian record where they explain "any" military campaign that failed on their part then it may be credible what the Egyptian said in their record.
The Egyptians, in that era, was not famous for recording campaign losses or anything that reflected negatively on their part. So, if the 10 Plagues happened to them, and they knew it, of course they wouldn't record that. They will mention nothing of it ----- defeat is an embarrassment for people of their stature.
Typical theist rebuttal. How does anyone know they wouldn't have recorded it? Speculation.
Wrong. Consider the Egpytian' drawing on walls. There were differences between Egyptian' blacks and the Hebrew blacks, and the Egyptian recorded the Hebrews as slaves. That along, is evidence enough of two separate group of people.
So, it can't be entirely dismissed that none of the plagues, exodus happened. And notice how Egyptians had records of Hebrews as slaves but nothing else between their existence.
Why? Because it was an utter embarrassment what God did to them. Keep in mind, the 10 plagues happened over a longer period of time, not a matter of weeks. It would be hard to put all 10 plagues together as a "single" event to look for by scientists, anthropologists etc. It was spread out over a period of time.
To add my two cents to your thoughts:
Moses or "mose" is Egyptian for "Son of" or "born of"...Chances are his full name, since he was found and adopted by Pharoahs daughter, was Ramose...with the "Ra" being dropped somewhere in the story (Jews/Isrealites didn't what to be linked with Egyptians is my guess) and the "s" added when converted to the Greek.
I would think an adopted son, that successfully led Egyptian armies in a few major battles, would have been written about somewhere in Egyptian history...
There was such an account. There is record of a "campaign in Ethiopia" led by (supposedly) Moses, when he was an Egyptian rank of some sort. Some say he was a High Priest that was exiled because he tried to introduced a Single, Invisible God against their Ra (Sun God).
Moses followers then became known as the Hebrews and instead of a civil war, the Pharaohs let them go to avoid a civil war within.
The Hyxos were not hebrew. That and the hebrews were probably, actually slaves to Syria/mesopotamia.
See, there's problems with that assertion. Most Historian' account would have ancient civilization in this order:
The Summerians were first civilization, after the L---??. Then the Hammurabi to the Hebrews in Egypt. So, it seems the Summerians and the Akkadians were One (in connection). And the people there between the Egyptians over time and the Hebrew were the same people, just different names under different empires.
The premise of an eye for an eye came from hammurabi, a person, not a people. Keep trying though.
Smh. You are persistent and that's good. The Hammurabi were laws written on a stele (type of stone)....I get that. I use the word "hammurabi" as a people of that era, which are the same people of the early civilization. Different names for them during different eras, that's all.
Why does it matter how God kills people? It seems more interesting to discuss why God kills people and how this changes our perception of Him.
Even more interesting would be to agree on a definition of what God is. Then any further discussions might be more useful. This might be a long time coming though.
If we were able to do as you suggest, there is the possibility that this convo would be null and void.
Do people not claim God causes death because the Christian conception of God is that of a constantly powerful and active agent. If the conception of God was of merely a creator in the beginning and nothing more then blame would not be placed on God at all. But, as it is, God is still concieved as an active presence and so must therefore be, at least in part, responsible for all that happens given that God is omniscient and omnipotent. If nothing else, God surely has the power to prevent things for happening. Iam not saying God is to blame in anyway I'm only trying to explain why people claim that God is responsible.
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