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What happens IF HubPages kills the Amazon income stream.....?

  1. makingamark profile image77
    makingamarkposted 11 months ago

    I don't suppose I'm the only person wondering what happens if the machinations - automated or otherwise - lead to HubPages having a much REDUCED income stream from Amazon.

    Make no mistake - as Google Adsense income dives (which it has been doing consistently for months) - income from Amazon modules will become more and more important to HubPages both now and in the future.

    I'd suggest the very future of HubPages is likely to be highly dependent on income from Amazon.

    Here's some of the reasons why HubPages Income from Amazon modules might be reduced - most of which are very definitely happening right now:

    1) People delete lots of Amazon modules after being told they have too many - although nobody has defined what too many is!

    2)  People leave unfeatured hubs unfeatured - because they get too tired of constant change and being told that sites which have been around for a very long time are suddenly no good

    3)  People move unfeatured hubs off HubPages to other article sites - being told your hub is spammy because it includes Amazon modules is a considerable incentive to challenge that proposal by moving it to another content article site - especially if there is evidence that they can thrive elsewhere

    4)  People move unfeatured or unpublished hubs to their own blogs or websites . Typically the strategy of those who are fed up of being told what does and does not work with Google when they have evidence to the contrary.

    5)  People get fed up of the really gross and totally irrelevant display adverts which are the only things that look really spammy on their hubs - and unpublish their own hubs and take the content elsewhere . Often the strategy of those who realise that Google does not like sites where people complain about the adverts they see.

    6)  HubPages employs people who don't have a clue that their actions might be cannibalising the income to the site.   I don't know this for certain - but it does seem highly likely.

    I'd be very interested to know:
    * how HubPages HQ quality assures the Amazon module decisions of people who have no investment whatsoever in HubPages (mechanical Turk etc)
    * what sensitivity testing the HubPages Financial Planning Team have done in relation to the strategy to unfeature and unpublish hubs where Amazon modules are deemed to be "too many" or "too spammy".

    In particular - I'd love to know to what extent has HubPages quantifed the financial impact on HubPages of annoying people so much by unfeaturing and unpublishing some of their hubs that this then leads to the removal of a considerable number of the more profitable hubs as well.

    Or is that an option which is open to hubbers that hasn't occurred to HubPages?

    1. Titia profile image90
      Titiaposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Totally agree.

    2. Sandyspider profile image48
      Sandyspiderposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      I have been away from HubPages for some time and now see that the amount of product links, eBay and Amazon has been reduced to nearly nothing. Started to update an article, but why?

      Even if I end up with no links and just story telling, new rules will unfeatured that as well.

    3. Anamika S profile image70
      Anamika Sposted 10 months ago in reply to this

      Totally Agree! Now my top Amazon earner Hub is selected for HubPro Basic. This is one Hub that is ranking on Google Page 1 for 6 relevant keywords, consistently for the past 3 years and more. When I raised by concern I was told that  "If you do not want your Hub edited, it will likely become defeatured.  HubPro is a way for us to help Hubbers, not hurt them.  I hope you can understand our dilemma and intention". What more can I say?

    4. Sharlee01 profile image66
      Sharlee01posted 9 months ago in reply to this

      Just a thought... I came over from Squidoo. I was with them from beginning to the end. Up until the last year I did well on Squidoo. My lenses were what I would call balanced a few amazon module on any lens. I had wonderful traffic, and many of my lenses had good ranking on Google Search.  All went down hill do the being penalized by Google due to spammy lenses. Squidoo  asked us to move are Amazon links to top of th page, and write personal reviews on what we had for sale on Amazon. Squidoo sank further into the deep dark hole that Google can sink one into. I have removed most of my Amazon modules, just left one or two on a few hubs. I have removed my out going links too. My traffic looks better. I hope this influx of the of irrelevant display adverts don't send Hubpages down the same deep hole. I do give credit to Hubpages for trying to fix problems. But the spammy adds that supports Hubpages will take them down, just as it took Squidoo down. It's like a dog chasing its tail, no good can come of it.

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 9 months ago in reply to this

        I absolutely agree and cannot understand why the team persists in doing this.

  2. Marisa Wright profile image91
    Marisa Wrightposted 11 months ago

    It's not a question of if - as far as I'm concerned, it's a question of when, and it's in process now.

    I would be willing to bet that the only people making significant income from Amazon are those with old Hubs which have never gone through QAP. 

    Once a Hub has to go through QAP, then most Hubbers find they have to delete the bulk of their Amazon capsules.

    Experienced affiliate sellers know that selling affiliate products is a percentage game.  No matter how relevant your ads are, only a small percentage of your affiliate ads will make a sale - so the fewer ads you have, the less likely you are to make a sale.  Therefore it stands to reason that with only one or two Amazon ads per Hub, the number of sales per Hub will be low.

    It means that those with established Amazon Hubs are in a dilemma.   If you don't update your Hubs, they're at risk of losing "freshness" and therefore traffic.  But if you do update your Hubs, they'll be sent through QAP and get unFeatured for "spammy elements" - which means you'll need to delete nearly all your Amazon capsules to get reFeatured.  Which will mean you keep your traffic, but still lose most of your income.

    1. Titia profile image90
      Titiaposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Totally agree

    2. GiftsByDiana profile image47
      GiftsByDianaposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Exactly  sad

    3. makingamark profile image77
      makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      There's no real dilemma at the end of the day.

      If that's the case then you just move your content elsewhere to other places where neither Google nor Amazon have a problem with it - and where you can also get a lot more traffic.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image91
        Marisa Wrightposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        But it is a dilemma.  It's all very well for you to advise people to move to their own sites, because you write on specific areas of expertise.  There are many Hubbers here who don't have a specialisation, but write on a wide variety of topics.  If they try to create a blog or website without a focus, it will fail.   So they don't have a choice.

        The other thing I've found is that moving material to your own site will result in more traffic, but it won't necessarily result in more money.   I've helped several Hubbers start their own sites and while they've done well traffic-wise, they've been disappointed with the income.  That's because there's no equivalent to the lucrative HP Ads program - they have to DIY using Adsense and affiliate ads, and if they are not technically minded then they struggle with that.

        1. makingamark profile image77
          makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

          Marisa - I stand corrected. That's very true. Developing your own websites only really works well for those who specialise.

          There again, anybody wanting to do well with writing on the web also probably needs to specialise. It applies to authors and journalists just as much as it does to bloggers and article writers. Generalists have done well in the past - but that was then and this is now.

          One of the reasons people who specialise do better is because Google rates you more highly as an author - and consequently your websites/blogs etc benefit - if you demonstrate expertise and build a following.

          On the question of adverts, again I'd agree with you. You can do better with advert income here - it advert income is what generates your income. However advert income is increasingly under pressure from advert blocks and Apple promising to build an advert blocker into its next version of its operating system. So relying on advert income going into the future probably isn't the wisest strategy.

          To my mind, moving forward we have to build content and sites for the future - rather than base them on what worked in the past.

        2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
          TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 months ago in reply to this


        3. Jodah profile image86
          Jodahposted 10 months ago in reply to this

          Good points Marisa. Almost all my income her comes from the HP Ads program. AdSense income is so small to be not worth mentioning, and Amazon and eBay only slightly better. No way am I moving my content from HubPages in a hurry.

  3. Millionaire Tips profile image88
    Millionaire Tipsposted 11 months ago

    There have been studies that show that if you give people too many choices, then they will have analysis paralysis and wind up not buying anything at all.

    Also we need to remember that we will get commission on the Amazon products no matter what the person winds up buying.  So if you only offer widget A and they buy widget B instead, you still get the commission.  You don't need to show them both.

    Personally, I agree with the policy.  I think it is hard to get just right as a numbers game, but it is about having relevant products, provided in a helpful manner, and avoiding being spammy. You want to be helpful to the reader and not think that your only goal is to sell them something.  It is when people are looking for a minimum number or words or some quantifiable goal that it gets tricky.  It isn't about adding one or two extra words; those words can't just be fluff. It's the content of those words that count.

    1. makingamark profile image77
      makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      I don't disagree with what you're saying about the problems with too many choices

      However that's NOT what this post is about.

      This post is about what happens if HubPages loses so much Amazon income that it is no longer a sustainable entity.

      If HubPages goes the same way as Squidoo - and there is every indication to ex-squidoo people that this is what is happening right now - then the question of how many Amazon modules and how much text they must have with each product becomes totally academic!

      Let's face it Google AdSense is never going to keep this site alive - and the more gross display adverts from other sources are used then the more people will leave

      Which leaves Amazon as a rather critical aspect of the financial equation.

      I don't find anything in the current stategy for unfeaturing lenses due to "spammy" Amazon "adverts" likely to persuade people that HubPages is a good place to be long term.

      1. Virginia Allain profile image63
        Virginia Allainposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        I made substantial money with my pages when they were on Squidoo (over $35,000 in 5 years). When Squidoo started its death spiral, the actions were very much like the actions Hub Pages has begun.

        I'm sick of being told my pages are spammy. Yes, I'm taking them away and placing them on blogs and other sites where they can function properly and are appreciated.

        1. makingamark profile image77
          makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

          It's so very depressing how long it takes to move so many hubs isn't it?

          The one good bit I've found is how much better they look on a new site - both on desktop and mobile devices.  I use that as my incentive now.

      2. Millionaire Tips profile image88
        Millionaire Tipsposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        I am sure that the rules that HubPages has created is a way to keep the sales without losing Google's approval - a way to get both Amazon and Adsense revenue.  It is a tricky balance, and it is hard to say whether they get it right.  I applaud their efforts to keep trying.

        1. makingamark profile image77
          makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

          Firstly the "rules" are opaque to a lot of people.

          Secondly, there is no scope for discussion and very little by way of expalnation. It's their site and their views as to what the "rules" should be holds sway.

          Thirdly, people take the exactly the same content to other sites and not only get more traffic but also maintain or increase income.

          This suggests to me that:
          * Hubpages does not always get it right when it comes to making "rules"; and
          * there is some considerable scope for some constructive discussion - from which EVERYBODY might benefit.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image91
      Marisa Wrightposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Agreed, Millionaire Tips,but that is not what HubPages is doing.  Take my Hub about ballet DVDs - I reviewed four specific ballet DVD's and included a link to buy each one on Amazon.   So the products could not have been more relevant!   Nevertheless, the HP team said I had "spammy elements".

      After several resubmissions, I got it approved - by removing one of the Amazon capsules. So clearly, the QAP team was not looking at relevance at all, but on some unspoken idea of what's an acceptable number of capsules.  BTW it now has about 1400 words and three Amazon capsules.

      Besides, MakingaMark is right - I no longer blog for a living but my old blogs, which I rarely promote or add to, are still earning good income from Amazon and eBay ads, at much greater density than HubPages would ever allow today - so obviously Google doesn't dislike affiliate advertising per se.

      1. makingamark profile image77
        makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        The thing that really gets me is our hubs are being moderated by people who haven't got a clue about our subjects and don't know how our consumers behave - whereas those of us with author credibility and weight in our fields do.

        That's what is so annoying about these random "spammy" letters - they're being generated by people who neither know the subject nor the marketplace!

        Everything is operating according to some dumbed down generic model of what HubPages THINKS Google wants - and HubPages is wrong.

  4. NateB11 profile image92
    NateB11posted 11 months ago

    I'm pretty sure that, weighed out, putting something in place to get rid of spam pages is more important for a site's survival than keeping some sales pages on for income. I don't think this is a site based in sales pages, fortunately. In addition, there are plenty of scammers out there who exploit HP for backlinks, which degrades the site also. If they didn't put in safety measures, which they've done over the years, HP wouldn't have survived. Since I've been here, there has never been any encouragement of creating pages with a lot of Amazon ads or pages that are created solely for the purpose of selling a lot of products. And I think they are right to discourage that; the potential for abuse is great.

    Some time ago I found a video online from a guy who was explaining how you can put thin content on HP just to get backlinks. Can you imagine the amount of junk that ended up being put on Hubpages because of this kind of thing? They have to do something about the junk, even if it means excluding legitimate content too. And with a site this size, it has to be done a certain way.

    1. makingamark profile image77
      makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      You're talking about things in the past which are now historic - so let's just set them aside. We can all tell stories of what used to be - but that was then and this is now.

      I am talking about the present. Google AdSense used to generate a fair bit of income - it doesn't any more. I've only been here a year and I've seen the income from AdSense plummet.

      The notion that ANY site can survive on thin air is a non-starter.

      The reality is that any site of this sort of size have to have a business plan which
      * enables it to continue to function
      * AND make a profit for the people who put in the effort to maintain it
      * AND those who contribute the content that brings the traffic and generates the income streams.

      Make no mistake, having a lot of small hobby hubs which get no traffic at all is a very expensive hobby for HubPages.

      The point I'm making is that if HubPages annoys enough people who do have decent content which gets labelled "spammy" then the chances are they may soon find themselves with an awful lot of hubs which don't generate enough income to make it worthwhile to continue.

      There is a precedent - because that's exactly what happened to Squidoo - and the way HubPages is behaving right now mimics what Squidoo was doing in its last year.

      If I was HubPages I'd be keeping a very careful eye on how many hubs are being unpublished by their owners and the content moved elsewhere - because it's happening and will continue to happen.

      1. NateB11 profile image92
        NateB11posted 11 months ago in reply to this

        You are dismissive and condescending, first of all.

        You can't dismiss what has happened in the past. It's not like just because it used to happen it will never happen again. You can pretend things work that way all you want, but it doesn't make it so.

        Make no mistake, when Squidoo lenses arrived with their spammy content, the site started to fail and lose traffic. Action had to be taken. Having a lot of greedy people that would rather sell products than inform people will cause Google to slap the site hard...right in the kisser!

        If I were Hubpages, I'd keep doing what it's doing, because it's out-lived sites of its kind.

        1. makingamark profile image77
          makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

          All I'm saying is that things move on and what might have been true in the past is not necessarily a guide to the future. Google moves on and changes its algorithms all the time.

          You say the past is relevant to the present. I'm saying what's current and of significance right now is relevant to the present.

          If we're talking about "dismissive and condescending:" I guarantee a lot of ex Squidoo people will be extremely annoyed by your view that all the Squidoo lenses had spammy content.

          Your language in relation to people whose hubs include Amazon modules is also extremely disappointing.

          The fact of the matter is that HubPages we understood that HubPages were only going to import the Featured Lenses (top 80,000). For the record I had over 100 lenses in the top 10,000 by the time of the transfer.

          What actually happened was they imported a number way in excess of this and these naturally included low grade lenses which even Squidoo did not feature.  We were just as disappointed about this as Hubpages members were!

          For the record - and I repeat myself - this site does not live on thin air. This site cannot survive on "information only" hubs.

        2. theraggededge profile image94
          theraggededgeposted 11 months ago in reply to this

          That is so out of order and a gross generalisation. HubPages had the pick of Squidoo lenses. They didn't have to take them all, neither did they.

          The transfer took place at the same time that Google decided to slap a few content farms. That's why HP got hit, along with many other sites.

          1. makingamark profile image77
            makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

            No - that's not true. We were told initially  (and I guess everybody at HubPages was too) that HubPages would only "take the pick" - and I guess eveybody was happy about that.

            The thing is a lot more came over which were never featured by squidoo - as at the date of the announcement - and thein lies the problem with quality.

            My guess is that HubPages significantly underestimated how many of the top lensmasters would remove all their content prior to the transfer such that what actually came over was NOT the top 80,000 as at the date of the announcement of the transfer but the 80,000 at the date of the transfer - and whatever was associated with those lensmasters.

            How do I know this? Well all of my lenses were featured - but the rankings changed in a really radical way between announcement and the date of transfer. My jaw was dropping every day as more and more of mine got into the top 10,000.

            I also had the distinct impression that HubPages latterly decided to take more than they originally intended. I can't remember why i got that impression but it was definitely something said at the time.  So that might well have exacerbated the quality problem re very low ranking previously unfeatured lenses

            With respect to the second point - I absolutely and totally agree with you that the Google slap was something nobody could have predicted would happen at the same time.

            Although there are those of us who reckon Seth Godin might have had wind of it........

            1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
              TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 months ago in reply to this

              The mistake came in allowing all of those articles a grace period, during which time they could be indexed by Google.

              This never should have happened.  People should have been allowed to make the transfer, but the hubs should have been left unfeatured until they could pass QAP.  Without doing this, the bad showed up along with the good, and everybody took a hit.

              1. makingamark profile image77
                makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

                There was some sort of safeguard - but I'm not sure it worked effectively.

      2. Jadelynx-HP profile image50
        Jadelynx-HPposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        MM is correct.  When my pages were transferred from Squidoo, I was happy to have another chance to get back what I had at  Squidoo.  Since that time, 90% of my 200 Hubs have been unfeatured.  I have been told my work is spammy and not worthy to be on the great (COUGH) Hub Pages.  I have been made to feel unwelcome by mean, arrogant people on this forum.  I have wasted hours trying to "fix" my Hubs only to have the rules changed again and again, and my pages unfeatured. 

        Pardon the vulgarity, but this is CRAP!  I am done jumping through hoops for a site that does not appreciate its writers, that clearly has NO solid plan for the future,  I am pulling my pages off here and putting them on my own blogs and other content sites.  I can hardly wait to be rid of this amateur operation.

      3. Dale Hyde profile image88
        Dale Hydeposted 10 months ago in reply to this

        "If I was HubPages I'd be keeping a very careful eye on how many hubs are being unpublished by their owners and the content moved elsewhere - because it's happening and will continue to happen."

        I have certainly unpublished many hubs that were tagged "spammy" and unfeatured,  and 75% of my content has been moved elsewhere.

        When I first joined several years ago, HP was on a platform of producing "evergreen" hubs.  This meant that once published you would not have to come back and keep tending them and updating them.  This worked for me and my income was significant. 

        These days I simply do not have the time to keep tweaking every week, etc.  So when stuff becomes unfeatured, I unpublish, and when I get time, I move them to my blog.

        1. Glenn Stok profile image98
          Glenn Stokposted 10 months ago in reply to this

          Dale, This was not a change made by HP.  Google announced that they favor fresh content, or old content that is kept fresh.  If you move your hubs elsewhere, you still will have to maintain the freshness wherever you publish.

          1. WriteAngled profile image91
            WriteAngledposted 10 months ago in reply to this

            However, my not-touched-in-over-a-year websites are bringing 10x or more Adsense and Amazon revenue than my hubs...

          2. Marisa Wright profile image91
            Marisa Wrightposted 10 months ago in reply to this

            ....but the question is, what constitutes "freshness"?   

            Google itself explains that their "freshness" update was intended to target topics that NEED regular updating, and that older posts on evergreen subjects still have value:

            https://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/ … earch.html

            To prove the point, when I searched for information on Google's freshness update, most of the results were from 2011 and 2012 (when it took place), and I had to scroll way down the page to find a more recent article:

            http://searchengineland.com/guide/seo/c … ne-ranking

            1. Susana S profile image92
              Susana Sposted 10 months ago in reply to this

              Indeed. The number of "fresh" results as opposed to aged ones in google serps is query dependent.

            2. NateB11 profile image92
              NateB11posted 10 months ago in reply to this

              That's good news. I'd hate to update articles that don't need new info.

          3. Dale Hyde profile image88
            Dale Hydeposted 10 months ago in reply to this

            Glenn, I have had not had to refresh my content on my blog, nor on either one of my websites.  Views come in and ranking is good without any tweaking.

  5. LuisEGonzalez profile image81
    LuisEGonzalezposted 11 months ago

    I agree but what really @#$%&* me off is the constant un-featuring of hubs to the point that I just let them go or move them somewhere else. And on a similar note, the more hubs I publish and the more traffic I get the lower my profile scores goes.Talk about another blunder that makes no sense at all!

    1. makingamark profile image77
      makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Points 2 and 3 of my original post http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/133836#post2776046 illustrated perfectly!

    2. Redneck Lady Luck profile image80
      Redneck Lady Luckposted 10 months ago in reply to this

      I personally think that what Hubpages is doing is like shooting yourself in the foot. Some of the unpublished ones have the highest traffic from Google (I keep hearing they are trying to please the search engines so clamping down on these high traffic articles is insane). Then when they unpublish the ones with lower traffic and knock them off the search engines they decrease even further their odds of being found. I am sick of the stupidity.

  6. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 11 months ago

    I already deleted most of my Amazon and eBay capsules months ago because I never made much with these anyway. I sold a book and a litter box, of all things.

    1. Sandyspider profile image48
      Sandyspiderposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      I used make a good income from Amazon capsules. That was back when HubPages was relaxed with it. But things change.

  7. calculus-geometry profile image87
    calculus-geometryposted 11 months ago

    Make no mistake - as Google Adsense income dives (which it has been doing consistently for months) - income from Amazon modules will become more and more important to HubPages both now and in the future.

    I'd suggest the very future of HubPages is likely to be highly dependent on income from Amazon.

    What do you base that on?  I have sites that run Adsense and my earnings per views have been steady.  My Hubpages Ad Program CPM hasn't dived, nor has it gone down for others. Your claim doesn't jive with what other people are seeing.  Nobody here has any inside information on HubPages's display ad earnings or what percent of its revenue comes from Amazon commissions, and staff would never in a million years tell us, so it's pointless to speculate.

    In fact, HubPages temporarily lost its Amazon account some years ago when Amazon dropped all California affiliates.  I hardly think they would embrace a business plan to become Amazon-dependent in the future!

    1. DrMark1961 profile image93
      DrMark1961posted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Thanks, calculus-geometry, it is nice to hear a voice of reason injected into this argument.

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 months ago in reply to this

        I was just thinking that when you posted.  Amazon is not the only advertising venue HP uses.  Even if writers posted zero Amazon ads, the site would still make money from Adsense and Amazon.

        I understand that many come here to earn money, but I also understand that those who post ridiculous numbers of ads or unrelated ads on their work pull all of us down by lowering our ranking with Google.

        It is so bad that I sometimes wonder how people even fit any content in among their ads on certain hubs.

        As far as I'm concerned, those who want to push products should move their work to their own sites.  This would end all of their emotional upset and, in the end, raise the ranking for those who remain.

        I know some have said this HP is a site for selling products, but I always felt it was a site for providing meaningful, correct information in well written form that might use an ad or two to help people find what they need.  I also always thought it was a place for writing where people could be proud of what they produced.

        Please don't try to tell me that placing an ad for detergent (or some other commonly found product) has meaning when people can go right to their local grocery stores and purchase it.  If your dog pees on my leg, please don't insult me by trying to tell me it's raining!  We both know the dog just peed on my leg!

        1. Marisa Wright profile image91
          Marisa Wrightposted 11 months ago in reply to this

          So, TT2, what's your definition of a "ridiculous" numbers of ads?   Do you really feel that every person who gets the "spammy elements" warning is using a "ridiculous" number - so that includes me, with four Amazon capsules on a Hub about four DVDs?  Are you suggesting it would've been MORE useful to my readers to say "I've found these DVD's and they're good, now go and track them down yourselves"?

          I don't think you mean it (or at least I hope not) - but every time you post on this subject, your words imply that you think everyone who's complaining is a money-grubbing spammer.  That is deeply unjust.

          I get really, really, REALLY angry at people who demonise Amazon capsules as if they were intrinsically evil.  It's rubbish.   There is NO EVIDENCE that Google dislikes them, provided they're relevant and useful.  I can recall some great craft Hubs here, where the author included a capsule for each of the materials needed to create the project.  We had an electrical guy here at one time, who produced Hubs where he compared several different appliances (e.g. washing machines), setting out the pros and cons and recommending the best products for different users (e.g. this one for the singleton, this one for families), with a capsule for each of the recommended products.  Removing ANY capsules from Hubs like that would REDUCE their usefulness - no doubt they're unFeatured now.

          As for the purpose of this site - you're right, probably all us veteran Hubbers (the ones who joined before 2012), should leave the site and move their content - because when we joined, the site WAS a place to write for money.   We didn't see any conflict between writing well and earning an income.  The most lionised Hubbers were the ones making the most money, and the queen of them all was also the queen of sales Hubs - Nelle Hoxie.  She had to leave when HubPages introduced the 100 words per capsule rule, because ALL her hundreds of Hubs broke the rule - but before that, she was lauded by HubPages:
          http://blog.hubpages.com/2009/12/07/nel … per-month/

          1. makingamark profile image77
            makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this


          2. justholidays profile image80
            justholidaysposted 11 months ago in reply to this

            You summed it all up very well Marisa. I too remember those times when HP was a means to earn money writing online and not an info site that doesn't generate money for its writers, as some would want newcomers to think. I joined 8 years ago and deleted my primary account in June... Forfeited my earnings as I was tired of all those changing rules that never affected my traffic in a positive way. Now I'm waiting to cashout my last payout - given the earnings rate, I'll be here for three up to six months, and will leave. There is no incentive for me here any more.

            By the way, to those Amazon haters, I used to make Amazon sales, not a lot since 50/50 rule, yet I used to sell through my Hubs, even on this former Squidoo account. And if I made sales it's because Google indexed my Hubs even WITH those Amazon capsules and they generated money for HubPages. So Amazon capsules are NOT as evilish as you try to make others believe.

          3. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
            TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 months ago in reply to this

            Marisa, surely you know I am not referring to pros like you who know how to produce meaningful and well placed ads and keep your numbers reasonable.

            I am referring to people who produce a 700 or 800 word (or less) word article and put ten ads on it that are poorly placed, repeat themselves, have virtually no value to the reader and take up so much space that there barely is room for text.  If you have not seen these, I have, and it shocks me every time!

            Why?  Because I simply cannot fathom how someone could be so crude as to ignore all of the rules and selfishly "greed up", while all the time knowing they are hurting everybody on this site.

            I have no problem with Amazon ads, but the issue here is that far too many here do not know how to use them and don't want to learn.  All they see are dollar signs.  While I certainly am not opposed to earning here, I think there is a right and a wrong way to do it.

            In my case, there have been times when I felt I really did need to place more ads on my hubs because of the fact that certain products are hard for people to find at fair prices, etc...but I didn't do it because I felt those ads would junk up my text and take up too much space.

            I don't know why HP is coming down so hard on certain hubs, but, truly, I have had no problems so far with this issue, even though I have up to 5 ads on certain hubs.  However, those hubs have thousands of words and ratio wise (in terms of my total writing output) are minimal.  Many of my hubs have no ads whatsoever.

            The way I see it, I earn from ads whether I place some or just use the HP ads.  Furthermore, I see no sense in placing an ad for one item, and then placing duplicates for the same exact thing , one for each of 5 different colors!

            The goal, in my mind, is to get a reader to click through one of the ad portals with the hopes that either he or she will buy that particular product, or will start shopping.  On some days, I've made way more from the general shopping than from my ads, and the products they buy sometimes shock me.

            For example, I'll advertise a special type of RV sewer cleaner, and someone will buy candy or dog food!  Go figure!

            Anyhow, don't get upset because of the comments I made, because none of them refer to any of your work.  However, when I hear someone bragging that they placed 13 ads on a post, yes, I do get frustrated.

            1. Marisa Wright profile image91
              Marisa Wrightposted 10 months ago in reply to this

              TT2, you may not be referring to "people like me", but you never make that clear in your posts - your posts come across as condemning everyone who uses Amazon ads.  That may not be your intent but it's what they convey.  Just making you aware.

              1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image95
                TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 months ago in reply to this

                Sorry it comes across that way.  Since I also use Amazon Ads, I would be condemning myself if I condemned everybody.

                I think the explanation I just gave should make my intent clear, but thanks for the heads up.

    2. makingamark profile image77
      makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      Go to Earnings
      Choose All Time
      Review the figures in the Ad Program column and note the changes and the dates.

      It makes for interesting reading.

      As for AdSense earnings generally, there have been various comments in various places online about adsense earnings being less good than they used to be. Partly it's to do with the ever increasing use of ad blockers and partly to do with the switch from desktop to mobile for viewing. It's affecting a lot of people - it's not HubPages specific.

  8. makingamark profile image77
    makingamarkposted 11 months ago

    With respect to display advertisements, ask any squidoo person what happened to the nature of the display adverts in the last year of Squidoo.

    Then ask them why they keep being reminded on HubPages of what happened in the last year of Squidoo. I don't suppose for a minute I'm the only person who has noticed.

    1. Ramkitten2000 profile image94
      Ramkitten2000posted 11 months ago in reply to this

      You're definitely not the only one who's noticed. I've had a lot of deja vu lately around here.

    2. Sandyspider profile image48
      Sandyspiderposted 11 months ago in reply to this

      I loved Squidoo before all the changes. I liked HubPages before the changes. Not happy now.

  9. PaulaMorgan profile image82
    PaulaMorganposted 11 months ago

    My advice - if you have information based rather than review pages I suggest you  just move on....  I moved all my good content to my own blog/s and now make much more in one day off AdSense than I did in one month on hub pages. 

    I don't use amazon at all anymore.  I honestly think the days of article sites being successful are long gone.  This seems to be the new model copypresswriters.com

    Good luck everyone!

    1. Sandyspider profile image48
      Sandyspiderposted 11 months ago in reply to this


      How to do get people to follow your blog? I need to know some tricks.

      1. makingamark profile image77
        makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        If you want people to follow your blog you need to follow and comment on their blog. Then they will look at yours and IF they like your content they may follow you back.

        Whether it's an email subscription or subscribing via a Facebook Page where you post links to your blog posts the net effect is the same.

        However that's just one small aspect of what it takes to build a following. I leaned what I know by watching those who had built big followings.  Worked for me!

      2. Marisa Wright profile image91
        Marisa Wrightposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        Hi Sandyspider, long time no see. 

        If you've been out of the loop for a while, you might like to read my Hub on "The Basic HubPages Rules" (on the spotlight in my profile) which will bring you up to date - what you read on the forums is often a bit distorted! 

        As for your blog - the best way to get followers is to write a great blog that appears high on Google results, the rest will follow.   As you've been away for a while, you may not know the new rules of blogging either.   

        Rule one is that you MUST specialise in one subject (though it should be a broad subject not a narrow niche - e.g. ballroom dancing not the foxtrot).   A blog about a variety of subjects doesn't work any more.

        Rule two is that you need to build up a lot of useful content about that subject - a blog of just a few pages doesn't work either. 

        I also have a Hub on my spotlight about succesful blogging you might like.

      3. makingamark profile image77
        makingamarkposted 11 months ago in reply to this

        It took me a year for my blog to gain traction - and that was with very regular posting.

        Blogging is only worth it if you are prepared to make an effort over time and have enough material on one broad subject - and maybe specialise within that.

  10. makingamark profile image77
    makingamarkposted 11 months ago

    It's really very interesting how many emails I have had telling me hubs are being unfeatured since this thread was started. smile

    However HubPages have absolutely no need to worry. The perceived problem with my hubs will be resolved very soon.

    I've just reviewed the numbers for daily pageviews on HubPages and the two sites I've set up already (for many fewer ex-hubs) and the gap is absolutely staggering. Mindboggling even.

    For some reason I've always looked at the numbers for individual hubs rather than the daily total (it's a long way down the page!) - and looking at those daily totals side by side today has really made the overall picture become very clear.

    So much so I've now got every incentive to unpublish and move content rather than work on getting hubs featured again.

  11. mrslagibb profile image65
    mrslagibbposted 10 months ago

    I have been on HP now for four years, up to now it's just been the ad program that has been earning me money. I have benefited from HP keeping me on my toes with my hubs having to update them by HP saying its spammy, it does improve my writing even more even though i do get frustrated at times with HP; I do know I write good quality content.  I do disagree with them reducing Amazon and Ebay modules because you cannot put in relevent modules in concerning your hub.  I don't mean over laden the hub with modules, but what I mean is it does take more than one module has i have had to put in, just to be on the right side with HP. When I first started writing in HP it used to be 10 modules, i think that is quite sufficient so you can use more than just one if need be, at times I have not needed any.

  12. justholidays profile image80
    justholidaysposted 10 months ago

    Not to mention that we primarily write for our audience, and not for other Hubbers.

  13. Will Apse profile image89
    Will Apseposted 10 months ago

    You get a good boost for a brief period which is useful at particular times of the year. Like now.

    A cynic could alternate 2 alternative versions via a helpful bot at fortnightly intervals.

    But I don't know any friendly bots.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image91
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 months ago in reply to this

      If we had a few friendly bots instead of actually writing original stuff, we'd probably be millionaires by now, Will.

  14. PDXBuys profile image85
    PDXBuysposted 9 months ago

    Amazon ads have never generated a cent for me.  I don't even bother with them anymore.

    1. Glenn Stok profile image98
      Glenn Stokposted 9 months ago in reply to this

      My Amazon ads bring about the same revenue as I get from the rest of the HP Ad program, so without Amazon my revenue would be half of what it is. I guess it all depends on what you write about and how you relate your Amazon ads to your subject matter.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image91
      Marisa Wrightposted 9 months ago in reply to this

      Amazon works for some people and not for others.  If your subjects don't lend themselves to Amazon products then they won't work.

      1. Solaras profile image92
        Solarasposted 9 months ago in reply to this

        I have just a couple of hubs that generate Amazon sales, however they produce about as much income as the HP Ad program does for all the hubs combined.  I think if you can have several related non-sales hubs that feed to the sales hub you can improve your earnings substantially.

        It can be difficult to replicate the successful sales hub though... you have to provide a solution for a need that you have found, but no else has properly address yet. That gets tougher everyday.