Believers just don't get?

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Hey folks,
   
   I mean come on people. I have had so many people claim to be praying for me, and I tell them to not waste their effort, but they claim that it doesn't matter what I want and that they will do it anyways.
   
   Now, considering all the times this has been said to me in my life, of over 40 years....a few thousand times
   
   I find it too funny, because what they do, actually has no effect on my life. Therefore, either they have lied and that means that none of them can be trusted or now I have real proof of no god.
   
   So, believers--which is it?
   
   Did you lie?
   
   Or No god!
   
   That's the only way it can be. So, say what you want, it is irrelevant.

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Cags,
      I guess you're not gonna settle for "god done gone an went an dunnit" then?

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What? To make sure that I have no belief in a god.
         
         But, why would a god, if one existed, purposely force someone to have no belief in them of him/it/her or whatever?
         
         More nonsense to go along with the rest of the religious garbage.

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            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Who's sense of humour is missing here cags, yours or mine?

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm tired and should have went to bed already. I guess I am just so sick and tired of people lying to me and when they are caught, they refuse to admit that they lied.
               
               And, the religious claim to be better than the average person. I mean, come on, who is kidding who?

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               RFoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I got the joke....but then again I'm also 3/4 Aussie. Maybe a cultural thing.

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                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yep! Most likely right. I am 100% Aussie.

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                     RFoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Technically I'm also 100% Aussie but as I spent the first 20 years in Oz and the following 12 in Canada...and I seem to be morphing into a Canuck now (dual citizenship)...even lost my accent....hahahaha
                     
                     So I figure I've lost about 1/4 of my aussie-ness at this point.

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                        sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I live in the wrong country.   I can work on my accent though so when I finally do make it to Aussie land I will blend right in.
                        
                        "Goodday mate, here the barbie is churnin shrimp these day?  Had me a me a baday... I mean bad day, sorry chap, missed my raddish in the sack last night.  Fosters been pourin down the chimps potato sack." lol
                        
                        Was it good?  I need help with my Aussie.  So wish I lived there there though!

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                           earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Stone the bloody crows Sandra! Ya have yer work cut out!
                           
                           I have a couple of hubs that could help ya!

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                              sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              How bout some links mate.  Would love to give it a go!   Stone the bloody crows!

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                                 RFoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yeah mate...ya also gotta stop saying "shrimp"...it's "prawns"! lol

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                                    earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yep ... prawns it is, shrimp are those tiny little things. We have prawns the size of alligators up north. or so I've been told.
                                    Fair dinkum mate! I'd be in to a dozen prawns like a rat up a drainpipe if I could get a Fosters to sink with em. I'm as dry as  a nun's nasty!

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                                       RFoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Bahaahahahahaahaha....
                                       
                                       So long since I've heard the nun thing!! Can't...stop....laughing...
                                       
                                       But seriously....are you going to perpetuate the Fosters myth to our non-aussie counterparts?
                                       
                                       Shame on you!

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                                          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          I'm a VB man myself. Fosters is camels p*ss!

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                                             RFoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             hahaha....EXACTLY!
                                             
                                             I don't think anyone's drunk Fosters in Australia since the 60's.
                                             My Dad has always loved Tooheys. My brother likes VB.
                                             
                                             Both drink Crown Lager.

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                                             sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             When I was in high school we had an Aussie basketball team play our school.  They won of course but on of the Aussie kids got on the mic and goes, "Fosters doesn't mean Australian for beer!" 
                                             
                                             LOL
                                             
                                             The 'nun' thing was too much fun.

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                                                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                
                                                Some of our advertising was a bit too effective Sandra.
                                                I haven't wrestled a crocodile on the way to work for quite a while now either!

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                        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        That's cool, Canadians are a lot like Australians going by the ones I've met here and in Canada.

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                           RFoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Yep, pretty close.
                           Canadians just have that super polite thing going on...even I now reflexively say "sorry" to everything...hahahaha
                           
                           
                           
                           P.S. Sorry I hi-jacked this thread and added nothing of value to the actual debate.

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                              earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              

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                              kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              

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            EatLovePrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well, there is a reason why people have believed in god for thousands of years. If nothing good is happening to you, don't blame others for their prayers not working. It doesn't work like that. Maybe your asking for too much, rather than looking at what you do have.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm not blaming anyone for my life. I improve my own life. This I know. So, let's not go there.
               
               I'm talking about being lied to?

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, you're right there is a reason, because they don't know any better.
               I'm not saying my life isn't good or good things haven't happened in my life. Everything that has happened in my life is through my own effort, not prayers by others.
               I know all about it. Been there, done that.
               I enjoy what I have. I haven't ask for a thing.

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                  EatLovePrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, you're right there is a reason, because they don't know any better.
                  
                  I like that mentality of yours. Know-it-all..lol..
                  
                  I'm not saying my life isn't good or good things haven't happened in my life. Everything that has happened in my life is through my own effort, not prayers by others.
                  
                  Your efforts create who you are. Some people find themselves, but some people are here to create themselves. Self-made. I believe that, and understand what you are saying. However, if you don't believe in "him/her/it"..something tells me you were waiting for a signal. Lol. Otherwise you wouldn't want to see the difference. Who cares if they lied. Everyone is really busy anyways.
                  
                  I know all about it. Been there, done that.
                  
                  O hail Cagsil!! :lmao:
                  
                  I enjoy what I have. I haven't ask for a thing.
                  
                  Thank you for lowering the burden on their shoulders! One less person to think about..lol..

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm not a know-it-all, and please read my profile. I don't like when people put words into my mouth. I don't claim to know everything.
                     
                     Waiting for a signal? Please. I don't need a signal. As for who care if they lied? Nice honesty you have. So you must think it's okay to lie to people.
                     Sarcasm is the lowest sign of wit. You might want to remember that.
                     This makes no sense. The old thing I have to do is make sure I take care of me. My actions in my life, are not only for my benefit, but the benefit of others as well.

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                        EatLovePrayposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        You know what.. I see no scope in your discussion. At all. At a time like this, the smart act would be to just listen..and not speak. In this case..read and not write for me.
                        
                        Some final words though...
                        
                        Atheists spend so much time, and energy objecting something that they don't believe even exists! What causes them to do that. Well, for one to help the delusional realize to not wait in the light of hope, and challenge those who do believe in god to convince them otherwise. That last thing..doesn't really happen often.

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                           kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I certainly know Cagsil long enough to know he is not an atheist nor any religious or non religious denomination.  He is not a person that relies on something outside of himself for events or direction to sway an outcome.  If you read his hubs, there are people referring to god in the comment section with content that reflects nothing on religion.
                           
                           We have both been here awhile and it would be rare, or maybe those just arriving, to not know how he feels.  I understand given remarks recently to him about God, why he is frustrated.
                           
                           I would simply hope, and get, his opening this thread that people now respect how he feels.
                           
                           If you don't agree with him, cool.  If you want to pray for him, not sure why, but cool.  But if a believer means what they say, then there would be no reason to tell him, and do so privately.
                           
                           It is not a matter of him disrespecting anyone, simply another request to please not enforce it on him.  He does not welcome or need for it.
                           
                           And if this seems like he needs a post to speak for him, it's not, but it is a post to say I get it Cagsil and you don't need the crap I have seen being commented to you.
                           
                           Flip side; you probably won't stop everyone, and need to accept it will happen, I just hope less now.
                           
                           Cheers.

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                     the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     eatlovepray- your a nasty person come on here only to get the rush of proveing someone wrong. just shut up

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      Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      well cagsil, i hope you won't get mad at me for responding your original post, as we've had our differences in the past.  however, as I'll just tell you exactly what i told a few people that i know are atheists in real life about what you just said.  although there is no definitive proof there is a god, but you can't exactly prove otherwise either.  as scientists are already questioning and finding errors in darwin's theory, that may prove otherwise.  however, we'll all find out if there is a god or not when we're both dead.  when we're both dead and buried, we'll both know once and for all...who's right and who was wrong.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you for your input Steven. However, I would like to remind you of one thing?
         
         The Human Consciousness you presently have, when dead is gone. It isn't energy, it isn't matter. When you life runs out and you're dead, that's it.
         
         Your Human Consciousness is the ONLY thing that tells you are alive and aware of your own existence. So, when you're dead...no one, and I mean, no one is going to be able to tell themselves anything.
         
         Just a thought.

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            Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            yes, your right about the human consciousness.  however, until you've had first hand experience with this, none of us truly knows what happens after you die.  seriously, anyone who tells you differently is selling you something, as they don't even have solid proof themselves.  just theories.  do you have definitive proof that what your saying about what happens to both of us after we die is even true?  do you?  if so, i would like to know your source. 
            
            in fact, there is a documentary i think you should watch that talks about intelligent design called "no intelligence allowed."  where various scientists are starting to question darwin's theory, as they're finding a lot of holes in his logic.  thus, they're wanting to look into the concept of intelligent design.  however, many of the scientists that are narrow minded, don't even want to discuss it.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Common sense on understanding human consciousness. Being dead means there is no consciousness. None! So, you have no awareness of life, or who you are. Nothing. Don't you get it?
               Steven, if you are looking for patterns, such a "design", even chaos has patterns, when viewed. Designs can be picked out of absolute chaos. But, thank you again for your input.

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                  Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  i get what your saying, but you still don't have any proof. how do you explain the fact that the human body emits an energy source, and all the other life on the planet doesn't.  how do you explain when you break down the atoms of every living organism on the planet from plants to animals to even us, that all the DNA on the most basic level is the same....EXCEPT us.  how do you explain that?  as i said before, you haven't given me any proof other than opinionated statements along with no source listed. if you had a source like a website, book or whatever i can look at that you learned this from. then your argument would have validation. until then all your giving me is your opinion and nothing more.
                  
                  as far as the documentary "no intelligence allowed", i was referring to the concept of how scientists like to use darwinism to explain the history of life and how things originated.  where did we come from?  how were we created. all i was saying is scientists are finding evidence that darwin's theory may not be the definitive answer we thought it was for the creation of the universe.  hence, why i recommended you WATCH the documentary, "no intelligence allowed", as it talks about the concept of intelligent design and how it might hold the answers to the creation of our own universe. besides, i know according to your profile and some of your hubs, you like to claim you love learning new things. thus, i thought you'd be appreciative of watching it, as i think you'd enjoy it. sure, you may not agree with it, but i think you should definitely and NEED to watch it.  it's very enlightening.

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Of course you body emits an energy source. DUH! The brain function, firing electric impulses throughout your body is what that is.
                     
                     You're dismissing the consciousness, which is not energy or matter. When brain ceases to function, energy ceases to be made.

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                        Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        again, you didn't list a source.  plus, it sounds like you don't understand what im telling you.  besides where does that energy come from? 
                        
                        as far as the conciousness goes, i wasn't dismissing it at all. i was just questioning on where you got your source.  that's all.

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                           Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I just told you where the energy comes from. The brain.
                           What source? Any science book on human consciousness will tell you. They are all the same with regards to it.

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                              Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              okay then. i'll definitely be sure to check it out then.  thanks for telling me about it, as i'll be sure to read a book on that as soon as i have the time.  thanks.  however, i do think you should watch that documentary that i mentioned earlier, as i think a man that likes to think alot like yourself would come to appreciate it's subject matter.

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                                 Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I'll look into it. How is that?

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                                    Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    i just told you cagsil.  it talks about how most scientist don't even want to discuss the concept of intelligent design, and strongly believe darwin's theory is the only theory to go by when it comes to discussing the theory of how life and how the universe began.  even though, some scientists have lost their jobs when they tried to point out there are theoretical flaws in darwin's theory.  i was just recommending it, since it seems like you want to get down to the bottom of why people believe in the concept of god or a creator.  not that the scientists who are supporting intelligent design believe in god or anything, as most of them are diverse in culture.  however, they do make a lot of valid points in the documentary, that i think you'd be interested in hearing.

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                                       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       And, I said I would look into it. What more do you want?

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                                          Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          well you asked, "how is that?"  didn't you want me to answer, or was that a rhetorical statement? 

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                                             Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                             And, all you had to do was say, okay.

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                                                Stevennix2001posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                                okay.....it looks like i misread your question, then i guess.  lol.  for a minute, i thought you were asking me to explain why you'd might like it. 
                                                
                                                eta: sorry, my bad. i misread your question.  lol.

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      Bibowenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No effect, except, perhaps, it compels you to start discussions on how it doesn't affect you.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, you're twisting the words to suit your agenda. Nothing new.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It isn't irrelevant to God. 
      Never underestimate the Power of the prayers of Believers who Love your soul.
      But indeed the final decision is up to you and only you.

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         Mitzi Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         True never underestimate the Power of prayer because it does work, seen it many times.  Indeed the final decisions is up to you but look around and you will see God everywhere.  I don't think that life and the earth just came from nowhere.  God is the only thing that makes sense and when you meet Him (not when your dead but in this life) you will know that He is God and He is all that matters

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   Stimpposted 13 years ago

   Cags, sound like something happened lately that I missed?  At any rate, if that is true, I'm sorry to hear it.  THAT, my friend is the truth.  And I know you didn't ask for it....but you got my empathy.  Am I going get down on my knees and pray for ya....probably not.  But having been through alot of touch sh!t in the last year....I can at least give empathy.  Hope tomorrow is better.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Stimp, lovely to see you and I love your honesty. But, things in my life are fine. I am not complaining about anything. I just find it ironic. Besides, I don't like being lied to by others. That's all.
      Tomorrow will bring me what I want it to bring me and more. But, thank you very much for you empathy, which I really didn't need. But, the thought counts.

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   On a second note Bibowen, I start thread, for other reasons. Try figuring out why?

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   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Here is an old one that gives a fair look at the lingo Sandra, I have another one, I will look for it.
   
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Australian-a-mi … t-and-nuts
   Here's the other one. A bit of local knowledge here as well.
   
   http://hubpages.com/hub/I-love-Australia

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   RFoxposted 13 years ago

   Oh....I just had a light bulb moment!
   
   We should get all the believers and non-believers together and get them drunk on Fosters.
   
   Either they would be telling each other how much they love each other by the end of the night or......
   
   they would actually find out what happens when we die.
   
   (Drinking Fosters, the latter is probably the more likely outcome)
   
   Either way the arguments would stop.
   
   

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yep! Fosters would kill a brown dog on a rope! Crown and VB sounds much better!
      The drunk idea may work. They say a drunk speaks a sober man's mind.

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         sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "She'll be right!"

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            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Wow Sandra me old china you sure are prepared to go down under eh?
            
            (China or China plate, rhyming slang for mate.)

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   kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years ago

   Cag's where did you go? 

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   stilljustwonderinposted 13 years ago

   Ok, do you really want an answer?
   
   God doesn't always answer prayers, when we want, or the way we want.  It took a few years of prayers for my husband before he went up to the alter and asked Jesus to come into his heart.
   
   Also, we each have a free will to choose.  Jesus can speak to some ones heart, but if they don't listen, he isn't going to make them.

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      exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      when Jesus speaks to some one, if they do not know His voice they will not know He is speaking, sounds kinda crazy, but you gotta hear His voice before you can understand that, but sis we understand.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         yep  we do  Yaul ready for the hurricane ?

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            exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            we are not getting anything except a little wind and a little rain, this valley kinda protects us from most of the bad stuff

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            stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
            
            Remember there are some people in Virginia who thinks your a pretty special fella.
            Have a great day, and remember,
            You are loved.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Is it Jerami's birthday??
               
               HAPPY BIRTHDAY JERAMI !♥

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         stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We sure do.  I love to hear him.  But, when ya hear a voice saying something that ya know is not a thought of your own?  Well, maybe they don't have thoughts that doesn't agree with their own.
         
         No, Jerami .  We are, 5 hours away from the beach.  We aren't suppose to get anything.  We're safe.
         
         Love ya'll!

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   learner.brownposted 13 years ago

   cagsil, I was a Christian (and pretty hard-core about it) for 8 years, and yes, most are lying. In the Christian world, saying that you will pray for someone is just something you say to comfort others, to let them know that you care. They were probably taken off guard when you called them on it or told them not too. Instead of saying, "Fine,  I won't pray for you." They insisted that they would, and probably did not. Most Christians do not have a strong prayer life, despite what they want you to think.
   
   But they'll tell you that God did answer your prayers, just not the way they wanted to. Or it is possible that the Christians that did pray prayed against your wishes because they thought it would be better for you to go through some trial or something in order for you to seek God.
   
   Anyway, I'm not a Christian anymore, but I don't think that saying that god is not answering prayers is actual evidence that god does not exist. It may be evidence that those who claim to follow god are seriously misguided, though.

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      klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not particularly a Christian, but I do pray for others on a daily basis.  I don't tell people I pray for them, I just do... mostly while driving to work in the morning. People think I'm on the phone but I'm actually talking to myself....

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   ahorsebackposted 13 years ago

   The obsurdiy of this question is it's own answer, Im not even a practicing christian and I can say without a dought that your question is simplistic in delivery. Why would you be so nacisistic in thinking prayer can be  about you? Most people pray for strength in faith, or to the religious ideals of hope , good thoughts of others or even guidance , but they don't pray for you to get a new car or a promotion at work , how did you find out it didn't work , did you get laid off , or lose your house? So you don't "believe ", they havent got to prove anything to you. sounds like  you are the one who "don't get it  ".

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    hanging outposted 13 years ago

    perhaps all those people did pray for you in their way BUT not knowing what gods will is for you, they prayed a miss. It is common for people to pray that the ungodly get saved and it is gods wish that all be saved, yet, if the person refuses to be saved, gods hands are tied. When it comes to salvation, God cannot exert his will or power to shove a person to his preference. We get what we get because we set ourselves up to get just that.
    What if god tried to gently persuade you to his side and you refused? Lets say you are a compass which has free will to point north if you want to, and you do not, yet God, pulled you till you pointed north. Your free will and ability to (refuse him or accept him) point north would be taken away.
        James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss,
                that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
    
    Often peoples flesh makes them want to make you holy, just to get you out of their way, but maybe you are a judas or a particular kind of sandpaper to his children to rub some corners round.
    All my questions are answered, are yours?

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