God's Plan and Miscarriages

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   Chasukposted 13 years ago

   Over twenty-five percent of pregnancies spontaneously abort. Does this men that abortion is sometimes part of God's plan?

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      AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      God thinks abortions are a blast - o - cyst.

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      the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Ummmmmmmmmmmm the body attacks a fetus the minute it realizes your pregnant. To your body, the fetus is an invader, and is foreign and must be destroyed, We arent pukeing our guts out because our body is excited about being pregnant. Sometimes they body succeds in getting rid of this little thing that has been recognized as an illegal alien invadeing the uterous. That is ALL. It is not "gods plan."   Do you know how many crack addicted prostitues have babies? Why would "god" Not let a boreing housewife carry a babie to full term? C'mon guys, seriousy?
      
      oh, and my the way, if a miscarriage is gods plan, well that kind of affects the whole free will thing doesnt it. I guess were allowed to decided weather or not to believe in him, but all of our other decisions are up to him, right? Ugh, im outta here.

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   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   It means that the Creator has created a very imperfect organism in the human body.  25% of the time His work is not viable at all, and there is something wrong somewhere in the remaining 75%.
   
   On the other hand evolution tells us that as long as the birth rate is high enough to maintain the species that it is acceptable and viable.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      wilderness wrote
      ...there is something wrong somewhere in the remaining 75%.
      
      On the other hand evolution tells us that as long as the birth rate is high enough to maintain the species that it is acceptable and viable.
      
      = = - -  =  -  = -=
       
      
        Good answer.

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   goldenpathposted 13 years ago

   I don't assume to know, because it has not yet been revealed, the actual point where intelligent life enters the body.  Given that I believe it's there at conception. 
   
   All life is fair.  Those who die before they are physically accountable for their choices will rise again in the resurrection.  These spirits are most precious.  They are among those who proved most valiant when Lucifer was cast out.  They were strong in the faith in the Father.  Because of the spiritual integrity of many spirits their only requirement for continued progression and exaltation is to gain a physical body.  Their level of righteousness places enmity between them and the temptations of evil.  The mentally challenged who are unaccountable also falls into this category.
   
   Because it is logical and written that all of us in the flesh will grow to the full measure of our spirits they will rise again in the resurrection.  Not with temptation but with the knowledge of God.  Imagine the strength and leadership these will offer us.

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Golden, your reasoning leaves me floundering; I just don't understand, nor can I follow your line of thought.
      
      While life certainly begins with a fertilized egg, I don't understand how that life can be intelligent without a brain to be intelligent with.  It can't reason, think or even react to stimilus outside of automatic chemical reactions.  It can't make choices at all.
      
      How can an fertilized egg be proved most valiant without making any choices as to what to do?  I can't understand being valiant without making choices.
      
      Nor can I understand how the faith of such an egg can be strong; it can't think of faith, let alone have any!
      
      Is it the disembodied spirit that has the intelligence and the brain merely runs the body?  Are these bodies inhabited by ages old spirits that were "alive" when Satan fought God and could thus be valiant in that battle?
      
      I believe that I understand your comments but am truly baffled by the reasoning used to get there.

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         goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         My apologies for not clarifying.  I believe that all of us existed and were truly individuals before we were born into mortality.  As individuals we varied in strength.  Those who proved valiant during the rebellion were blessed with unique missions. 
         
         It's not the choices made by the infant that I inquire to but rather the correct choices they made prior to mortal birth.  These are not to be pitied and figured a loss in the eyes of God.  It can never be so.  There must be a reason.  This doctrine does not condemn them but rather holds them in the highest esteem for all of the rest of us to learn from.

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            getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            just like the starving dying children.  Why can't God just have you and I switch places with these people, then maybe they could learn from our suffering and death.

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               goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               ...so full of hate as usual.

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            wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you.  It is an interpretation that I have never encountered and your comment just threw me for a loop.

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      AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The level of arrogant absurdity in this claim of knowledge of details of other-worldly events would normally be laughable, but as this type of certainty is inconsistent with relationships with other humans it is downright dangerous to our species' survival.
      
      It cannot go un-belittled.
      
      Boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, consider this: the person who wrote the above claims of absolute knowledge of supernatural events, motives, and reasoning can now get on the internet and learn how to make a nuclear bomb.
      
      Pakistan, a country that has a predominant religion whose followers sincerely believe that Mohammed climbed onto the back of a winged horse and flew to heaven and back - they have a nuclear arsenal.
      
      India, a country that has a predominant religion whose followers sincerely believe that life is a cycle of death and reincarnations and the ultimate in spiritual accomplishments is to break this cycle - they have a nuclear arsenal.
      
      Israel, a country that has a predominant religion whose followers sincerely believe that a small band of desert nomads were hand picked by an invisible superpower as his chosen people and that the world will end with this superpower appointing his proxy and his chosen people to rule over the earth - they have a nuclear arsenal.
      
      America, a country that has a predonimant religion whose followers sincerely believe that an invisible superpower created all that is but had to send himself as another being in order to give himself to himself as a sacrifice to save humans - they have a nuclear arsenal.
      
      Boys and girls, ladies and gentlement, isn't it about time we require that those who hold the keys to the weapons that can end our world and our species use the same reasoning and evidence-based thought that produced those weapons on their own beliefs?
      
      Isn't is about time for us to stop tolerating irrationality, to look at these irrational and delusional beliefs systems, the authors who make these unsubstantiated claims, and their followers, and simply say, prove it?
      
      Tolerance is over-rated.  Fear of ignorance should replace it.

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         getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Frightening, but true.

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   workingmomwmposted 13 years ago

   As a woman who has had a miscarriage, but not an abortion, I find the comparison between the two to be absolutely offensive.
   
   In my case, I didn't know I was pregnant and lost my first child in the toilet when it was about 8 weeks old. I didn't make a choice to lose this child. It just happened (although I do still consider myself somewhat responsible for its loss - there must have been SOMETHING I did to kill it).
   
   As for whether that was part of God's plan, I have to assume it was for my life, although I still have a hard time believing that a perfect God who is in control of everything, according to the Bible, could not have saved the life of that child - or any of the other children who are "spontaneously aborted" - hate that term!
   
   As for the children who are purposely aborted, that's been taken out of God's hands, I'd say, by the mothers and the doctors who perform the operation. So, I don't know how it could really be considered part of God's plan.
   
   I think it boils down to the fact that a perfect God created imperfect humans (for whatever reason) who have the free will to choose what they will do with their lives, and they don't always make the best choices. But, in that case, I guess it could be part of God's plan because if we were absolutely perfect, we wouldn't need Him. And God wants us to need and seek Him.
   
   Sorry this is so long. It's just (obviously) a subject close to my heart!

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      Chasukposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      My apologies.
      
      I didn't mean to offend..
      
      Clinically, the word "abortion" refers to end of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion of a fetus. This is true whether it is spontaneous or intentional.
      
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage#Terminology
      
      Again, my apologies.

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      AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      (As for whether that was part of God's plan, I have to assume it was for my life, although I still have a hard time believing that a perfect God who is in control of everything, according to the Bible, could not have saved the life of that child - or any of the other children who are "spontaneously aborted")
      
      I do not mean to diminish your loss or your anguish over that loss, but at the same time it seems obvious from your words that you are experiencing a type of cognitive dissonance between your belief in God and this cruel event.
      
      Consider this about your question: for there to be a God of your beliefs, you must rationalize why this event was allowed, i.e., you must make up excuses for God.
      
      Now, take the same question but add this answer: there is no God.
      
      Doesn't the event make more sense and cause less emotional conflict in the second case?

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         workingmomwmposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         First of all, I have to agree with you that there is some cognitive dissonance between my belief in God and the loss of my first child, but so what? The Bible is full of stories of believers who questioned God's actions and plans. It is a natural part of being human and not understanding all His ways - just trying to live by faith the best way I can, which will obviously be difficult at times.
         
         As for rationalizing why this happened ... I struggled with that, of course, but I finally came to the realization that I don't need to rationalize it. It just happened. I can accept that and go on. And I certainly don't need to make excuses for God. Who am I to say anything about why God does what He does anyway? I'm just me, and I certainly can't place myself at that same level.
         
         And, no, I can't really see how the event does make more sense thinking that there is no God. I can't imagine how I would get through the experience at all if I thought there wasn't any God. God is my comfort and strength, no matter how much I may question His ways because I don't understand them. So, in that case, I would say, if I believed there was no God, I would face even greater emotional turmoil. But that's just me.

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            the pink umbrellaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            id rather think that you had god there to comfort you, than you thought he took your baby from you. Thats my position on it.

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      ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is a really well written answer.  Sorry for your loss.

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   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   When I think about the question it really doesn't make sense to me.  God gives humans the ability to have children then he aborts them?

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      ediggityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Or, maybe the unborn child is inadvertently miscarried due to choices made by the expecting mother.

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         SpanStarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ediggity,
         
            I'm inclined to agree with your assessment.

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   shannonleigh1976posted 13 years ago

   Here is my $0.02 for what it's worth.
   I believe that things happen just because they happen.  This world WAS perfect when it was created, and then sin came into it.  This is NOT the way that life was supposed to be.  So when horrible things happen: miscarriages, cancer, illnesses etc. I don't believe that it was originally the plan of God.
   
   My side of things is this.  My husband & I had to buy donated embryos because using our own DNA to have children is not possible.  We also used donor egg & sperm.  We have had 4 transfers. 1-miscarriage, 2-ectopic pregnancy, 3-miscarriage, & 4-didn't get pregnant.  Through all of this, I give praise!  God has a plan that is much better than my mind can wrap itself around.  It might not include children (I certainly hope that it does), but through it all, I have no doubt that all that happens God will use.

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   klarawieckposted 13 years ago

   Souls waiting to reincarnate choose who their parents will be the minute the woman gets pregnant. However, if any decisions, or change of circumstance result in a different setting and therefore a totally different life experience for that particular soul, it's his/her decision to walk away.
   
   It's like buying a house. You can be pre-approved, but it's not yours until you get the last signature and the keys. You can back down at the last minute if you want to, because once you own the house, that's it... no second chances.

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      AKA Winstonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      (Souls waiting to reincarnate choose who their parents will be the minute the woman gets pregnant.)
      
      Remember boys and girls, ladies and gentlement, when you read sentences like this your first terrifying thought ought to be: Ah!  They have nuclear weapons!  Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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         klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I've got weapons, but they are not nuclear.

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