Pay Per Click to Promote Your HubPages?

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   multimasteryposted 13 years ago

   Greeting Hubbers!...
   
   Just wondering if anyone ever tried pay per click like google adwords, yahoo ad center or other to promote one of their "money" hubs?  And are we allowed to use a HubPages landing page for pay per click?  I didn't see any hard fast rules on this.  I've just been hearing so much about how pay per click can really accelerate ones income IF you know what you're doing of course. Would love to here feedback on this, thanks!

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      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think it would be fine as long as you dont compete with Hubpages on any of it's PPC phrases.  Whether you would make a profit off it or not is a completely different matter though!

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         multimasteryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well how would you know all PPC phrases Hubpages is bidding on??  I'm sure there's tons!...

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   Pcunixposted 13 years ago

   Google for "Adsense arbitrage".

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      bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Very cryptic Pcunix. Is that good or bad?

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         ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If you Google it, you will find out
         
         I'll give you a clue, arbitrage is where you buy something low, and sell it high. If you buy traffic using advertising, and send it to a page with adsense on it.... this is arbitrage.
         
         Though it is more complex than that. So you should google it.
         
         Arbitrage is a good way to send your adwords and adsense account to /dev/null.
         
         Personally, I would never use adwords on hubpages.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         As Thomae said, Google it.  Let's just say this: Mother Google does not approve.

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            bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I knew that. But then you are so obscure Pcunix. Thanks to both of you for a good answer. However, if you have a landing page that leads to pages that have adsense on a different domain that would be ok right?

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Why? Because you are masking your intent?

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                  darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The intent of what? Using Adwords to get traffic and qualifying that traffic before it lands somewhere else?

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                  bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Pcunix, I am not smart enough to mask my intent. I am just wondering how people drive traffic in an honest way to pages that have adsense on them.

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I don't mean to be obscure. It is a complicated subject.
               
               I sometimes use Adwords to drive traffic to pages that advertise products and services I sell. Those pages sometimes carry Adsense too, but apparently it is obvious to Google that my Adwords search terms and my Adwords text match the page content, so they have never given me any trouble over it.
               
               I don't know what specific actions would cause them to dislike you. It is obviously complicated.

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                  darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  So sometimes you are breaking the rules?

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                     Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     No. I explained what I am doing and why.
                     
                     But of course you dislike anything I have to say. I quite understand why you'd automaticcally look for evil intent.

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                        darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you explained was that you had Adsense on pages that you are using Adwords to drive traffic to said pages.
                        
                        Am I missing something?

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                           bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I wonder about this too. Arbitrage is against the rules but is all adsense banned from adwords? That would seen to be wrong too, but how would you know where you stand?

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                              Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              If your Adwords are plainly driving traffic to something you sell, Google has no problem with running Adsense on the pages also.
                              
                              See http://adwords.blogspot.com/2011/01/usi … -your.html where they say:
                              
                              As AdWords users, you know how effective AdWords can be in driving traffic to your website and how it can turn curious visitors into regular customers. But since not every visit leads to a sale, wouldn’t it be great to have other ways of making money from those visits?
                              
                              That's why I asked about intent.
                              
                              Darkside is just trying to stir up trouble. He probably is quite aware of this.

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                                 ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Er, the site they reference is a thin affiliate site, which is quite obviously engaged in arbitrage, so... who knows? I have no idea whether it is OK to engage in arbitrage or not.
                                 
                                 They spent the last three years chucking people out of adsense for behaving exactly the same way that website does.

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                                    Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    I think it is definitely NOT OK to engage in arbitrage.  However, if your Adwords landing pages are obviously intended to sell products or services (as mine are), Google has no problem with you adding Adsense.
                                    
                                    Whether it makes SENSE to is something else entirely.  I definitely didn't put the big, plainly visible ads on my selling pages.  I might have them in a sidebar or near the footer, but I didn't want them distracting from the much more profitable sale Iam hoping to make.

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                                       ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       I'm not talking about your site, PCUnix. I'm fairly sure you are not intentionally doing arbitrage. But the site that google post points to really confuses me. It is exactly what I would call a thin affiliate site. All the items it is selling are via affiliate programs. There is no new information that I can see.
                                       
                                       So, why doesn't Google consider this arbitrage?

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                                          sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          arbitrage:
                                          
                                          
                                          "Attempting to profit by exploiting price differences of identical or similar financial instruments, on different markets or in different forms. "
                                          
                                          adsense/adwords are two sides of the same market. Using adwords to promote a non-google profit motive is exactly what adwords exists for.
                                          
                                          There is no such thing as a "thin affiliate site" for adwords - thats a concern(term) of the search quality/webspam team their motives and objectives dont always match the adteam.
                                          
                                          Your landing page des get a quality score - they do want the ad copy to accurately reflect the landing offer. no bait and switches - but thats the extent of what "quality" means to an adwords campaign - does the landing page match the promise of the ad "teaser'

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                                    ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Sunforged, the definition of arbitrage as far as google is concerned is given here
                                    
                                    http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bi … wer=190442
                                    
                                    It explicitly says prohibited pages under the google policies are
                                    
                                    "Examples of prohibited websites:
                                    
                                        * Parked domain sites
                                        * Interstitials on pages that lead to pages of ads or sponsored offers
                                        * Websites whose primary purpose is for users to click on ads that redirect to other sites"
                                    
                                    I look at that site, and there is not one jot of original content, it is entirely made up of affiliate offers (links to other sites) and adsense ads.

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                                       Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       It doesn't have to be original content. I think that's what you are missing.
                                       
                                       The product being sold has to be what someone clicking on the ad would expect to find.  That's the whole of it.

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                                 darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 The accusations are flying thick and fast.
                                 
                                 Looking for 'evil intent'? 'Trying to stir up trouble'?
                                 
                                 Can a person disagree, question or even ask for clarification in a civil manner without you attacking them?

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                                    Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Some people can.
                                    
                                    So you were just asking an innocent question? Just looking to learn something about Adwords and Adsense?
                                    
                                    I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that you need to ask me any questions in this area.  However, if I am wrong, I apologize for assuming dishonest intent and hope that you actually did learn something useful.

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                                       darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       While I have been aware of Adwords and how it works for many years (the reason why PlentyofFish could boast about making so much Adsense revenue, for a short period of time), until last week I had never run an Adwords campaign. Though the traffic is to be sent to a business website without any Adsense ads at all (the results have been less than spectacular, and I've found more success with Facebook ads).
                                       
                                       I have considered using Adwords for HubPages but other than a persons profile or a sign up landing page I was under the impression that seeing that a hub has Adsense ads (unless it is deemed non-commercial with the ads switched off) that anything with Adsense on it is strictly off limits.
                                       
                                       ThomasE quotes: "Examples of prohibited websites... Websites whose primary purpose is for users to click on ads that redirect to other sites"
                                       
                                       Could that not be said of most hubs? While I do make an effort to publish hubs of a certain quality, I wouldn't be doing so if the opportunity to make money wasn't there.

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                                          Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          I would think that hubs definitely would look like arbitrage.
                                          
                                          I suppose you could have a hub that doesn't, but I'm not sure I have seen one.  You'd have to be definitely selling something, which is rather clumsy to do here, so I think you'd be wasting money and risking Google unhappiness.

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               darksideposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, it would be okay.

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   Richieb799posted 13 years ago

   You might as well start your own website and use PPC and received 100% Adsense revenue or get a free Blogspot blog, they give you 100% revenue.

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      ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You should not send paid traffic to a page with adsense on it. That is not advised.

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      ssaulposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So true!

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   multimasteryposted 13 years ago

   Looks like ole Google has their double standard on this and they punish who they want to while giving their top money makers wiggle room.  Not surprising to me at all.  Here's an interesting article I found on the subject:
   http://ppcblog.com/adwords-adsense-arbi … mment-8704

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      tritrainposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Google has a lot of double standards.
      
      But we are little fish in the big sea.  We must try to keep in Google's good graces.

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   tritrainposted 13 years ago

   Better yet, build a website/blog and point it to your Hubs.  You could then use your Adwords credits (among others) toward the website/blog.

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   sunforgedposted 13 years ago

   The simple question of
   
   Can I have adsense on a page promoted by adwords? is a clear and 100% .. YES
   
   that alone is in no way a TOS violation and is very, very common and normal.
   
   
   As PU points out - its all about intent, anyone who uses adsense/adwords (especially, Google staff) could see clearly whether your goal is a variant of the arbitrage method. Its clear as day when you look at the page/site.
   
   
   Do you regularly get .50+ clicks on the page and are bidding on tons of odd longtails that cost you .05 cents? When someone arrives on your page is is smack dab full of adsense ads (front and center) .. what else could a visitor do when they arrive besides adsense? is there a mailing list sign up or a product for sale?
   
   A hubpage is generally not something that would be seen as an arbitrage page - way too many exit links in the sidebar, tons of useful content and other activities for a visitor to do.
   
   But, its not really the best of places to use money on ads for unless you have a great conversion rate on some sort of product, otherwise, its hard enough to learn how to use adwords and make a profit on your budget - losing 40% of your opportunities for amazon/ebay from the jump is a hard margin to makeup. Even if your goal was adsense arbitrage - a hub would not be a good location, loss of 40% impression, again hard to make up for.
   
   I used a free voucher on hubs before and (keep in mind adsense is my least important revenue source) - I did see an increase in adsense but it would not have made up for the cost if I actually had bought the traffic - but it did work out great for the product I was targetting and which my intent was to sell.
   
   ( I now have an entire site dedicated to the product and still use adwords to promote it)
   
   
   
   
   
   in short - one would normally KNOW they were attempting arbitrage, it would be their intent and they wouldnt have to ask in a forum if it was ok.

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      bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Just a question: how does google know intent? I mean, if there is sort of an arbitrage going on, yet that was not the intent, how can Google read intent?

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         sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         lol, well of course they cannot read intent with algorithms - but a human staff member, and adwords has plenty of staff members, would recognize an arbitrage page right away.
         
         and keep in mind - google is a brain trust - http://google-interview.com/google-inte … sheet.aspx
         
         they dont hire stupid

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sure they do. They can't have 20,000 plus employees without hiring SOME stupid
            
            But, yes, you have made a far better explanation than I did.

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      multimasteryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi sunforged you make a lot of great and valid points! But I still say Google has double stands and can be very unfair.  Many people get penalized and banned left & right from them every day - for no good reason - while others walk away unscathed.   So far, based on what I've gathered,, I would not even fool with mixing Google Adwords with Adsense.  Too risky - Not enough rewards ~ and too many complications!

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      ThomasEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      In the past I have generally advised people not to put adwords on hubpages. It seems obvious to me that you will lose money. You are talking about a site full of distractions, where 40% of the impressions go to someone else.
      
      I don't see how you could make money, most of your paid customers would just leak away.
      
      Add to that the slim margins (6% commission on Amazon) and typical amazon conversion of 20% of ctr...
      
      well, the maths says you will lose money.
      
      And, the benefit of hubpages is generally that it is fairly easy to rank in the organic search... if you pay for traffic you don't need that advantage.

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         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, that is the other side of this: arbitrage would  tough enough without the disadvantages added here.

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   sunforgedposted 13 years ago

   to be specific - that is a list of prohibitions not definers of what arbitrage is.
   
   -----
   
   I do see how it could be confusing and interpreted in many ways.
   Just another example of how nebulous google policies can be.
   
   As a consumer I would have no problem with the site shown, it presents related products in an easy to navigate manner, presumably I can find products from dozens of suppliers all from one location rather than going to each supplier individually.
   
   The adsense ads are at the bottom of the page below the fold in a position that would not normally be considered "optimized"

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   waynetposted 13 years ago

   Pay per click for Hubpages has never interested me, because I just know that wasting money is not good in these economic times.
   
   I've fluttered with Facebook ads, but on my websites, but never on individual Hubpages as I don't see me paying for traffic will help.
   
   If you play your cards right Facebook ads can be more direct and to the point of getting some qualified traffic, all be it social networking traffic from the Facebook crowds, but hey, everything's becoming connected now and who knows what might happen....
   
   I just find the idea of paying for traffic daft, but it's best to test things out even if it's only the once!

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