a Tea Party Patriots perspective on OWS

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SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago
I am forwarding this....
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Tea Party Patriots push back against the liberal media and expose these “Occupy Wall Street” protesters for what they are: America-hating anarchists who want to take their anger out on ordinary, productive citizens.

Tea party rallies have always felt like “parties” — and safe and clean ones at that. Unlike protesters in New York, I can find no reports of tea partiers being arrested, individually or en masse, at the thousands of tea parties across the country with millions of attendees that have taken place for years now.

However, on the streets of New York, these anti-free enterprise anarchists are defacing American flags, defiling police cars, accosting ordinary citizens, threatening businesses and demanding class warfare be waged on anyone who works hard and is successful.

We the people know what caused this terrible economic crisis. It wasn’t capitalism or American freedom. Instead it was out-of-control government spending, sky-high taxes and rampant cronyism and corruption in Washington, D.C.

This is the message Tea Party Patriots need to spread across the nation. Our vision for America is vastly different and far superior to the demands of the Occupy Wall Street crowd.
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I always think it is important to recognize that there are bad examples in every labeled group, OWS and TPP as well.
To me the point is will the intelligent,logical,ethical and moral peoples please all get together and denounce the bad examples and stand together to voice the vision of a better society and comet to terms with what the core issues are and how to change them...all that is less than the highest outcome, perspectives and way to move forward needs to stop.
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  habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I kind of agree with you. The OWS has some points that I support, but they need to unite with a central message and denounce some of their fellow occupiers that are causing the problems. Don't they realize that these few "bad apples" are turning lots of people off?
  
  And what are their demands? I've seen different lists of demands on different sites. On one site, I was like, "Yeah! Good idea!" But then I'd see demands listed on another site that were ridiculous.
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  S Leretsehposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Foolish, unemployed 20-somethings trying to recreated the 60s. And who are the ones provoking and prolonging this "movement"? The same ones that did it in the 60s : the MSN. BTW, where is the umbrage over the compensation packages the MSN boy and girls get? Katie Couric $15 million to sit on her plump duff for an hour & a half a week?!
  
  Also, there is NOTHING that can be gained with this movement. Are the Wallstreet boys going to give up (or give back) any of their millions in bonuses? Course not. Are the rich going to voluntarily give the masses a portion of their wealth? NO. --Not one red cent.
  
  Winter 's coming and these losers and loafers will have to go home ....to mommy & daddy
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are thinking in a simple manner...yeah, I know, big shocker. Bringing back Glass Steagall separating consumer banking and investment banking, regulating derivatives, regulating credit default swaps, paying SEC more and putting in rules about where they can work after they leave the SEC to lessen the chance of fraud and lack of oversight, eliminate the legality of robosigning of home foreclosures, investigations of the investment banks, Fannie and Freddie, and the rating agencies with actual legal penalties, full funding of the Consumer Protection Agency, overturning the Citizens United decision as one person is one vote, not one dollar is one vote, and breaking up the banks who are "too big to fail", etc. Your thinking is too narrow, too superficial. There are real issues here, real problems. The people at OWS are products of a system that committed fraud upon the entire nation and then the entire world.
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  Petra Vlahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Tea Party got a LOT more attention from the "liberal" media than the OWS movement.
  The media is so totally owned by the big money (corporation and political interests), it is not even funny
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Tea Party is funded and trained by said big corporation (i.e. Koch Industries owns and began AFP and Freedomworks, the former funds the gatherings and the latter trains the members). They got more media attention because it was new, and it didn't make sense. People were telling the government they wanted lower taxes when taxes hadn't increased for 17 years beforehand and were at the lowest point since Eisenhower. They wanted "government hands" off of their Medicare, which is government funded healthcare. It was the idiocy that made the news. The OWS members who make sense...don't get media coverage, and I would venture to say the same thing about the Tea Party.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just the police plotter alone should highlight the difference, but, for the liberal, fact, reason and actions mean far less than feelings. Just look at the "good" occupy people - chant, drum, chant, drum, they FEEL like they are "making a difference." That kind of making a difference makes them clowns.
  
  The problem is when liberals actually start taking action. Unrestrained by reason and fueled by emotion and the mob, liberals are dangerous when anonymous action becomes possible.
  
  Check the police records. But then again everyone who doesn't agrees or seeks to protect the public are misguided, bought or evil, aren't they.
  
  http://bigjournalism.com/jjmnolte/2011/ … et-so-far/
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is easier to arrest kids who look different than old white people dressed like retards. With regards to your "reason" comment - don't forget all of the Tea Party people with Obama/Kenya signs, Keep your Government Hands Off My Medicare, wanting lower taxes when they are at their lowest point in 60 years, claiming their have been tax increases, etc. The Tea Party hasn't got a single shred of reason involved in it.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And there it is. The reason there have been arrests among the occupy crowd is because they are not old white people not because there were real violations of real criminal law but because they are poor kids who the "man" is keeping down. Predictable.
  
  Where are is the vandalism, intimidation, public indecency drug selling, drug use, rape among the TEA party people? The numbers and varieties of arrests are increasing everyday the occupy people are protesting. That is the reason and fact part of it. Dressing like a goofball is not a crime - and not an identifiable difference between occupy and tea. Foolish and provocative signs are also not a discernible difference.
  
  Violence and arrests is an identifiable difference. But that is factual and reasonable - not a language some speak or comprehend.
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, we have never done that in our country huh? What a joke. Young people are NEVER harassed by the police right? The Tea Party wasn't a threat to the establishment, because they are owned by the establishment. Occupy IS a threat, and therefore will be dealt with as a threat. We have never arrested people for no reason while they protest...civil rights, wars, economic disparity, etc. Nah. Oh wait...we ALWAYS do.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, arrest them or push them out of the way with bulldozers or firehoses or flash grenades..
  
  We don't ALWAYS arrest them.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years ago
Tea Party Patriots is an oxymoron. You can't honestly claim to be a patriot while hating so many of your fellow countrymen.
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is it about the Tea party movement that you don't understand..?...To borrow a Clintonian adage: It's the Government, Stupid !...
  I don't belong to the Tea party but their message resonates; Fiscal and personal responsibility, clarity and transparency in congressional proposed bills, and a simplified tax code that has everyone paying their fair share...There is nothing in their agenda that suggests they hate fellow Americans...unless you consider passionate and animated debate hateful...
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But it is NOT the Government.
  
  You hate government because you think you should be left to do whatever you want. Libertarian idiocy is what drives the Tea Party.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Governments, like corporations, are people.
  When we point the finger at them, there are three fingers pointing right back at ourselves.
  Which leads me to the obvious conclusion: PEOPLE are the problem!
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are on to something....perhaps when we eventually merge with machines all those burdensome and annoying problems like ethics, morality, and justice will disappear and be replaced by an implacable Borg-like hive mentality...
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean "eventually?"
  The "merger" (big biz euphemism for "takeover") is here.
  The machines are in control.
  The Borg-like hive mentality is in evidence all around us.
  Why think when you can have your opinions transmitted directly into what used to be your brain by little (or big) electronic rectangles?
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't ordered my tin foil hat yet...That mentality may exist in big city environments where group-think is the norm...I see nothing remotely like that in my part of the world...most of my friends are self-reliant, hard-working, and critically thinking Americans that watch or listen to the news with a grain of salt, and place even less relevance on anything emanating out of Washington, DC...machines may be influential in your world, but not mine...
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Big city environments where group think is the norm??????
  
  Exactly backwards. Large population areas are extremely diverse in every way. It's the sparsely populated pockets where group-think reigns supreme.
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nope...not at all...perhaps you should go to a community meeting in one of these " small " towns and listen to the passionate and intelligent debate that ensues...Read small town newspaper editorials and letters to the editor pieces...you want diverse..? What exactly do you mean by " diverse "..? Diverse opinion, diverse ideas, diverse lifestyles, diverse religious creeds..? Or do you mean, as is usually the case with progressive liberals, race..? That diet of MSM and Moveon.org is dangerous to your critical thinking...See Mighty Mom\s comment above...
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I LIVE in one of those small towns.
  
  I know group think when I see it - you argue, yes, but you all think alike where it counts.. if "thinking" is even the right word!
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And just where does " it counts "..?
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Mighty Momposted 12 years ago
Oh phooey.
Just when I thought OWS was finally bridging the partisan gap....
Opinionated lefties AND righties (here in the HP forums, anyway) actually AGREEING WITH EACH other and finding common ground.

Now the TPPs have to once again stir the pot.
Read this forwarded message.
It's typical rightie distraction and distortion.
This kind of rhetoric sets back progress toward common Americans working together to get results.
Why? Because OWS protestors aren't "like us." Oh no. OWS protestors are:
a) fighting against ALL working people (not true!)
b) filthy unsanitary pigs (whereas TP rallies are clean and pristine)
c) unAmerican

Message to Tea Party Patriots: Your message is tired, old and flat out divisive.
This is not 2010.
It's going on 2012.
Get with the protest program, people!
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knolyourselfposted 12 years ago
The winter of Vally Forge.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Perhaps thats what this country needs , 'the winter at valley forge' ! I just read that the tea part is made up of 15% of America , The OWS 1 % , if thats true , then that says it all.
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  Petra Vlahposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  too early to dismiss the OWS movement and do not worry - ahorseback - their number will grow as they get more organized
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is not a viable poll...the Tea Party movement is a political party practically, with corporate funding to spread the message, organize, train, and actually give them the message to fight over...they are essentially a political arm of corporate interests. 15% claim membership? Well, only 17% support, so essentially they support themselves and everyone else thinks they are nutjobs who got owned. OWS doesn't have leaders, funding, organization, a single message, anything of the like....and they are supported by 54% of the country right now. THAT says it all.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OWS=99%.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
Yeah, well. Here's my take on the TP:

Bunch of spoiled, well-off, over-indulged people. Had everything handed to them--
Good jobs, good wages, easy cost of living, GI BIll for serving in the war, one job was enough to support a family, could send kids to college, take vacations, EAT and HAVE HEAT, and a roof over their heads..

Now receiving Social Security, which runs out of THEIR input in 4 years, so technically they are ON the tax-payer dole, huge medicare cost....people make a job out of visiting specialists in Florida.

Kids are paying for this, fighting the wars, going to school IF they can afford it, no jobs left--the spoiled ones out-sourced their future. Cost of living off the wall, and the spoiled people are saying: I got mine...pull up the ladder!

Common ground was lost when Beckles became the spokesman, and the Nuge sang their anthem.
Tea Party Takers is more like it.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry, but this post is sooooo far off, LMC.
  
  I don't know where you live, but in my area, most of the Tea Party members or supporters are NOTHING like the ones you describe.
  
  When are you and the others(on both sides) going to see that by by divisive like you are, NOTHING will ever be accomplished?
  
  America: wake up. You're libertarian. OWS and the Tea Party are proof.
  
  I like this Evan.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm the only one I've seen say this about the TP...I have, on the other hand, seen a LOT of others shoot down OWS in the most derogatory way imaginable.
  
  SO...I would say, I am the only divisive OWS supporter, while you have plenty of divisive TP supporters.
  
  and....Anti-Abortion is NOT Libertarian!
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If people just bothered to think about the core issues of what's causing the Tea Party and OWS to go out and march on the streets, people will realize just how libertarian America is.
  
  Both groups are against government dishing out money to companies. Both groups are against government power (whether they realize it or not).
  
  This isn't a "left vs. right" movement, this is a bunch of people pissed off at the mercantilist policies of our imperial government.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, sorry...I thought it was called Occupy WALL STREET.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, we are NOT Libertarian.
  
  The foolish and dangerous ideas of Libertarians would destroy all the gains made in the last fifty years. Minorities of all kinds would suffer horribly.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  we're losing those gains on a daily basis. It's called "spending too much and malinvesting societies resources to the point of bust".
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We spend too much?
  
  No, we tax too little.
  
  We are at war. Now, personally I think we should NOT be at war, but the fact is that we are. Although our recent history might seem to indicate otherwise, war should be an unusual and unexpected condition, but even if it is not - even if we must accept that from now on we will constantly be at war with someone, war has costs and the Right consistently wants those costs to be paid by trimming everything else.
  
  We need to raise taxes and it has to come from those who can afford it because the rest of us don't have the means.
  
  The other cost we have right now is medical costs for our seniors and the disabled. Because of greed, the U.S. enjoys the most expensive medicine in the world - and doesn't even get to be the healthiest in spite of that.
  
  My wife went to visit a specialist a few months ago. Normal appointment, no emergency, covered by Medicare. She saw this brilliant doctor for fifteen minutes.
  
  The bill to Medicaid was $900.00 and was coded as "Emergency Room Visit".
  
  Because we care, we check every single charge and you can bet your boopy we reported that to Medicare. We also called the doctor's office, who hurriedly said that was a "mistake".
  
  Yeah, maybe it was, but I seriously doubt it. I think it's yet another example of the disgusting greed that permeates this country.
  
  We could take the greed out of medicine. We can pay doctors well, help insulate them from frivolous lawsuits and yet not have outrageous fees. We can reward drug companies for spending money on developing new drugs without letting them have inconceivable profits.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Point 1) We're taxing too little? Actually, this chart would disagree with you. Tax revenue is about as high as it's ever been, and it WAS increasing at the same rate as spending until Obama was elected.
  
  http://www.politicalmathblog.com/wp-con … eficit.jpg
  
  Our tax revenue right now is the same as it was in 2000 - but our spending level is the highest it's ever been.
  
  And, yes, the numbers are adjusted for inflation.
  
  Spending shot up at the same time that tax revenue plummeted. However, spending is at an all time high, and taxation is merely at 2000 levels.
  
  Sorry, but your argument that we're not taxing enough is nonsense.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Point 2) Please to be showing me the declaration of war?
  
  Oh, that's right, we're not at war. We haven't been at war since the end of WWII.
  
  If you want to be able to claim that we're at war, then please FIRST demand that we declare war.
  
  (PS: Ron Paul has been demanding that we, at the very least, declare war. He's been against all of our wars, but he at least demanded that we declare them. You guys seem to have a bit in common!)
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, for crying out loud.
  
  Yeah, Ron is right about that. He's an idiot about most everything else.
  
  Whatever we are doing with our military, it is costing us money.
  
  It doesn't matter at all that our tax revenues are higher - IT"S NOT ENOUGH!
  
  We need more taxes and we need to get them from the people who can afford it.
  
  I'm pretty much retired now, but when I was working, I wouldn't have objected to paying more. Why should I? At least in theory, I benefit from these wars (assuming the premise of "fight 'em there so we don't have to fight 'em there" is correct, which I doubt, but assuming).
  
  I'm reminded of one of my former neighbors. We actually met because we both had summer places at the same camp/resort - didn't know each other before that.
  
  When he found out we came from the same town, he started complaining about our real estate taxes, which were usually either the first to third highest in the State. "How much did yours go up this year?" he blustered.
  
  I told him had no idea and honestly couldn't even tell him how much they were except in the roundest of numbers.
  
  He just about had an apoplectic fit. "How can you not KNOW??"
  
  I told him I didn't know because I didn't care. We obviously could afford them (and he made at least two or three times my income, maybe more). I told him that we had good schools for our kids, clean and safe streets, a wonderful community center on the lake and many more things that COST MONEY.
  
  We never did see eye to eye on that, of course, because all he cared about was that some of his precious money went away..
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "I didn't care... [because] I could afford it".
  
  There it is.
  
  Pcunix, you could afford just about anything if you ate gruel for every meal and lived in a lean-to.
  
  Come on, PCunix! The US could EASILY afford to raise employment if you just were to have just worked for only 95% of your pay and lived off of gruel your whole life!!
  
  You greedy pig.
  
  (In all honesty, though, I'm kind of disappointed in your answer. You should realize the dire seriousness in your demand that 'the government should be able to spend our money as long as we can afford it'. I thought better of you, I suppose)
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WE NEED TO SPEND THE MONEY.
  
  That's the part you and everyone like you never understands. Your money isn't being thrown away, WE NEED IT!
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Explain to me right now WHY we need to be in Japan, Korea, Iraq, Russia, every country in Europe...
  
  WHY do we NEED to join social security? Americans lived without it for centuries.
  
  Why do we NEED a department of education when humanity educated itself without one for millennia?
  
  No, Pcunix, we do NOT need to spend the money.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And lived healthy lives with food and shelter....
  
  Oh wait, that didn't happen in real life; only in libertarian fairy tales.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I DON'T think we need to be there.
  
  Or, more truthfully, I haven't the beginnings of a clue whether we should or should not be, but I'd vote "No".
  
  But that's not the point: if we ARE there, we need to pay for it.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow. You bring words to my throat that I cannot utter here. Come tell me that over in my G+ account if you want to hear what I think about that.
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Evan, that is moronic. Society educated itself? That is ridiculous and flat out false. Again, just another reason why Ron Paul isn't even taken seriously BY HIS OWN PARTY! That millennium that you refer to, was marked by things like believing disease was caused by Satan, demons....the Dark Ages, and hundreds and hundreds of years of pure ignorance. Your statement is a joke, and you spelled millennium wrong.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your characterization of the early Medieval Period as the Dark Ages reflects a limited education. It is the conceit of the contemporary to believe that all that came before was flawed, inferior, incomplete and mostly useless. There were no "Dark Ages" there was a period between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the Renaissance.
  
  Between 500 AD and 1500AD ( a generally accepted time frame for the Medieval Period) the first university is established at Bologna in 1088. The foundations of music begin in the monasteries of Europe. The Carolingians begin a series of reforms aimed at education, law, language and governance. Charlemagne is called the Great for a real reason.
  
  The Eastern Empire enters a golden age of reform, art, music and architecture. Legal codes are codified begining with the Justinian reforms. Anglo Saxon and German legal reforms follow. An international code for merchants evolves - the Lex Mercatoria. Feudalism institutes organization in land use that produces, along with the Medieval Warm Period, agriculture plenty and rapid population growth.
  
  The "modern" liberal typically holds Medieval culture in contempt because so much of it was dominated by the Catholic Church and religious organizations and communities as if that precludes reason, learning, logic and science. The liberal does not acknowledge that the curriculum of the university began in the Middle Ages with liberal arts studies in grammar, rhetoric, logic, philosophy and mathematics.
  
  The roots of modern western literature are sunk in the Middle Ages. Beowulf, the Son of Roland, the Icelandic Sagas, the Song fo the Niebelung have all informed music and literature and continue to do so. Liberals reject the Middle Ages as "dark" because they fail to review the history of philosophy and reason. Thomas Aquinas, William of Ockham, Anselm of Canterbury and Peter Abelard all wrote on theology and philosophy.
  
  Liberals like to think that now is the only time that matters. They like to think we step over the bodies of dwarfs when we stand on the shoulder's of giants. Ours is the only world that matters. It is the hallmark of the liberal - the infantile ego. The "Dark Ages" saw the invention of the hourglass, horseshoes, blast furnace, eyeglasses, mechanical clock, tidal mill, spinning wheel and printing press.
  
  Without those benighted idiots of the "Dark Ages" the modern world would be much less modern. But this is wasted on the liberal who is certain of his superiority as if all culture, all government, all philosophy sprung up from the corpse of Karl Marx and all that came before was garbage.
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliantly stated comments supported by facts that show the world as it was and is, not how we would like it to be...I would only add that any study of progressive liberalism, starting with Wilson, provides a picture of an arrogant elitism emanating from their promotion and endorsement of Eugenics...
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What a crock.
  
  You haven't even the beginnings of a clue as to what liberals believe or want.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for a meaningful and in depth, point by point refutation, counter assertion argument. It is that kind of philosophically sound discussion that leads to a clearer understanding of the intellectual underpinnings of such a rational position as redistributionist, populist, "progressivism."
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  PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, that is his MO: stating unequivocally (and hilariously) what liberals believe, want, and fear so that he can then argue against the absurdity of liberal dogma (as he has erroneously defined it), all the while claiming to be "entertained" by us silly liberals, even though he has done nothing except debate his own completely ridiculous notion of liberalism and liberal ideals.
  
  Then, of course, he is "disappointed" (but still entertained) that we don't provide lengthy rebuttals to his meaningless drivel.
  
  Did I get it right, UV?
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And yet the American economy struggles against the policies of liberalism. The schools liberalism created flop about and fail. The welfare state liberals seek to expand sinks people into ever increasing dependency and poverty. What liberal "idea" has ever succeeded?
  
  Small businesses burdened by the ever increasing involvement of a distant and insular federal government fail by the thousands as the liberal blamer in chief rails against enemy after enemy while liberals shout, "Yes, no Los Vegas trips," "Yes, it is no time for profits," "Yes, no private jets," etc.
  
  Every attack sinks more businesses but liberals scoff at the idea that corporations are people. They are indeed people and when the liberal's President runs down the country, the economy, businesses and his fellow citizens - while liberals salute and shout, "Yes, we can," those millions of people who are employed by or invest in those corporations lose jobs, income and retirement funds.
  
  Thank you liberals you are doing an awesome job - and that is just the stupid domestic policies. The domestic is where liberals say they excel. The liberal foreign policies of the liberal's President are even more disastrous precipitating a collapse of order in the Muslim world. Wait until the biggest bomb explodes.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, we are struggling against the stupidity of conservatives. The ugliness, the hatred, the greed and the callous disinterest in anything but their own self interests. Always fearful, always mistrusting and always waving the twin flags of patriotism and religion to justify every ugly thought they have.
  
  That's what is ruining us.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone not acting in his own self interests is suicidal. If one does not act in one's own self interests who will. What other interests are there?
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Q.E.D.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What other interests are there? When I am at the food pantry filling boxes or stocking shelves I am doing so because I have decided it is in my interest to serve others.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And that is all the difference. The difference that you can never comprehend,
  
  Unlike you, we think about other people. Not because it is in our interests to do so, but because we recognize that they are human.
  
  "What's in it for me?" is always behind everything you do.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What's in it for me is different than self interests. But the idea that acting in one's self interest is not only reasonable but moral is one that is hard for a liberal to begin to understand. It is much like the idea of the individual. Who does not act in his own interests, even when serving others we are acting in our interests.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, folks, here you have it.
  
  As I said, he's incapable of even imagining not acting in his own self interests.
  
  This is why you can't ever hope for any real decency from Conservatives - everything comes with a price attached.
  
  Let me quickly add this.
  
  I don't really believe that Conservatives are incapable of selfless action. I'm just pulling UCV's chain because of his insistence that no one acts unselfishly.
  
  I DO think that selfishness explains a lot of conservative ideals, though.
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who's afraid of John Galt..? Obviously, most in this forum...UCV has made some excellent points, though being complex, have apparently flown right over most of their altruistic heads...
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  On the contrary, all he has done is set up some strawmen and gleefully scattered them about.
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What strawmen..? His points are hardly scattered...on the contrary, they are well organized and refutes your denial (" What a crock...You haven't even the beginnings of a clue as to what liberals believe or want ") with factual history...
  Freud and Kant have rightly defined altruism as egoism in a fur coat...
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When I see flying condescension, I duck.
  It does not mean the comment "flew right over my head."
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  maven101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A liberal with a sense of humor..?...A rare bird, indeed...Thanks for the levity...
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How can one act against one's own interests? If one is acting one is acting in one's interests. Just as actual collectivism is impossible so to is actual selflessness. One is one's self. To act in one's self interest is actin ing one's interest whether those actions are for the betterment or even preservation of another at the cost of one's own life it always comes from the interests one understands within one's self - self interests. There is no none-self. There is only self. To pretend that there is no self is irrational.
  
  So, when one sacrifices one's own life for the life of another it is to serve a purpose one finds serves one's own interests.
  
  You say selfishness and self interest are the same. Selfishness is to exclude all others from consideration. This too is irrational but that is a point wasted here.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Average life expectancy of less than 30 years. Wholesale deforestation and other environmental calamities. Hundreds of thousands dying in religious wars. Wealth concentrated in the hands of the top .01%...
  
  It was a golden age, one the teabaggers would like to return us to.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OOps, pardon me mini-me while I step over you. I was born now so now must be when everything started. How about tens of millions be ground up to fertilize the great progressive states of the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, North Korea - modern liberals must be so proud.
  
  Environmental calamities certainly even you are not arrogant enough to believe that modern society is insulated from plague, earth quake, hurricane, volcano and more?
  
  Deforestation is the natural out come of having only one source for fuel and construction material. When the green society finally succeeds I hope there will be enough forests for us all to harvest because we will need to build stables for our horses and don't forget "green," "low carbon" manufacture of windmills.
  
  The arrogance of contemporary has a stink all its own.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have taken nonsensical responses to a new level. Congratulations.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ron, surely you have not forgotten Emily Forum Poster's Rule of Nonsensical Density (aka ND838258388810203401010A(g120c)?
  Allow me to refresh your memory.
  
  "The ultimate obfuscation of meaning or factual basis is obtainable by citing arcane historical references utilizing a vast quantity of polysyllabic words structured into compound, complex sentences which should be structured randomly but emphatically into paragraphs of a minimum length of 7.3 sentences per paragraph."
  
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Point 3) IF the doctor was actually trying to rob Medicare (he probably was), there's a reason for that.
  
  THE GOVERNMENT IS HORRIBLE AT MANAGING MONEY!!!
  
  Let me get this straight - the 'mistake' wouldn't have been caught by the government -- the managers of the money. YOU (the person using the money) had to catch the mistake FOR the people spending the money?!
  
  How do you expect the government to regulate the market when they can't even be bothered to 'look at receipts'?!
  
  Please wake up and realize that incentives matter. Government doesn't bother looking through their books intensely because they aren't spending their own money - they take the money by force from the people.
  
  If you stole a hundred bucks from someone, would you spend the money as wisely as money you earned from work?
  
  Of course not. Because it isn't really your money.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, Medicare has an pretty good record at catching fraud. Hard figures aren't easy, but it isn't out of hand at all. https://www.cms.gov/medicaidintegrityprogram/ has some info.
  
  So, contrary to your nonsense, they do "look at" this stuff. We know that alerting them to discrepancies helps them find things sooner, so we do our part and I know other people do also.
  
  We have another on-going Medicare problem. My wife was a passenger in an auto accident last year and has racked up about $12,000 in bills so far. She keeps telling the doctors to send the bills to the insurance company, but they keep sending them to Medicare. It's frustrating, but in that case, if we were not checking I don't know how else they'd know. It's not fraud, but it sure is annoying. I'm sure some of that does get lost in the systems.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Point 4) Greed has existed forever.
  
  I have yet to see any sort of measurable "Greed Index", but I'm sure it would stay constant over time.
  
  ... that is, unless the government wanted to manipulate the numbers by redefining terms.
  
  Humans are greedy, and they react to incentives.
  
  A price is NOTHING more than the exchange rate agreed upon by two or more individuals.
  
  Government CAN NOT generate prices (this is why Communism/Socialism failed) because the money is not theirs to begin with. Thus, the greedy-as-always individuals find a rube (the government) to steal from.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not all humans are pathologically greedy.
  
  It IS pathological when you want to accumulate far more than you can ever need. These people are no different from the pathetic "hoarders" you've read about or see on tv - or the people who have two hundred cats or birds.. they are sick.
  
  Most of the stable and intelligent people I know value happiness, friends and family far more than wealth.
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One wants to regulate the market though. You and the libertarians are against any regulation of any kind.
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Arcjahadposted 12 years ago
The Tea Party is a joke what have they actually accomplished since they formed NOTHING . Their answer to everything is " Cut the size of government ,cut my taxes, no to Obamacare" all republican talking points what are these people going to when Obama wins in 2012 because it's looking like Romney will be the running against him and if that's the case it will be four more years of Obama . No Tea Party candidate has proven themselves once they have stepped up on the big stage they usually begin to fade away or made to look like fools once the media gets a hold on them .
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or it's plainly for money--as in Palin and Cain.
  
  Dubious Distinction: the name of my next band
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Lovemychris , Arcjahad , Not that I down play ANY movement of the people , but aren't you a little blind to the facts. It is that mentality that continues to amplify the pitiful whining of partison rhetoric! Tea party ,OWS , somewhere out of these unorganized uprisings comes a movement of anger ultimately being recognized by our out of control govenment . It sad and disapointing that supposedly intelligent forum dwellers cant see beyond the defeatist mentality of entitlement!
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, see--that's ANOTHER problem I have with the TP.....they blame the gvt, I blame Business/Big money/Banksters. Triple B you could say
  
  AND in fact...they don't want big money to pay more, they want it to come from us.
  
  They applaud Business as the "job creators" and real Americans who can "fix" this economy....but they are, if I may borrow from you; BLIND to the fact that business has been busy robbing us silly.
  
  What is their mantra? Blame Obama Blame Obama Get Obama out Get Obama out....then what? Romney?? Big Corporate-kisser Police-State Romney?
  
  Oh god forbid! OWS has NOTHING in common with these peeps!
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  America just did the "we're mad as hell at the government so we're gonna vote in a bunch of neophyte TP congresspeople" protest.
  Didn't exactly turn out as planned.
  Sure as hell didn't create JOBS, did it?
  How many foreclosures did that stop?
  Did it bring healthcare to uninsured Americans?
  
  Government spending is NOT the problem here.
  That's just a diversion.
  It's been exposed.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That being said, I agree with you, Ahorseback.
  The problems we face are universal.
  Dividing is not conquering...
  But neither is focusing all our anger solely on the government or only at rich people.
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  Arcjahadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What are you talking about OWS for this is about the Tea Baggers because they don't have a real agenda unless being mad and blaming Liberals for all of Americas problems , as for being a defeatist you must be talking about yourself
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knolyourselfposted 12 years ago
"the defeatist mentality of entitlement!" Great line, but I am not quite sure what it means?
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  ahorsebackposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Theres a new attitude of entitlement after the last twenty five years of economic success in America . The selfeshness of "I want mine too" , unfortunately that is alot of whats going on here today !
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Noooooo, they want BACK what was stolen. Top 1% LOOTED America!
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
ahahaha:

"Eric Cantor is eager to speak on income inequality as soon as he can find a venue that can guarantee no poor people will be admitted #icymi"
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victoria1108posted 12 years ago
haha is u rich
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Mighty Momposted 12 years ago
Uh, welcome to Hub Pages, Victoria.
Hope you plan on expanding on that cryptic comment...
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
We all want to blame corporate America for this and we should . BUT ! Each and every dollar of influence from any company or even governments outside of America coming in to influence our congress , our senate and our white house , Goes right through a Congressmans set of hands first! Blame wall street hell blame anyone you want ! The supreme court just allowed equality to corporations for constitutional equality to the individual! That makes no sense at all!
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who is on that Supreme Court? Were they added by people who support gvt, or people who support corporations? DUH.
  
  Sorry---we see the enemy.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The government... get's millions in bribes from companies....
  
  are you insane?
  
  The government and the corporations are "friends with benefits". But the one that's running the show is the government. How can I be so sure? Because they're the ones who steal your money to give to the companies.
  
  Quit asking the master to punish the slave, when the slave can change what that punishment is.
  
  Kinky.
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are entirely incorrect Evan, and I know your motivations are to apologize for corporations and blame the government at all intersections.
  Government officials are beholden to the voters, as they have to stay in office. They have to have the money to run, and they get that money from the corporations...corporations who don't turnover leadership at intervals, have very little transparency to deal with, and can and do get away with clear violations of the law, only to pay a tiny fine. No, corporations own the politicians. Corporations call the shots.
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Evan G Rogersposted 12 years ago
The Tea Party started with Ron Paul on December 16th, 2007 to help the man get elected.

For thirty years Ron Paul has been correctly predicting the economic problems that the US has been facing - the 1987 bust, the .com bust, and 'the great recession'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pKb4U5q … re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNDvLRUevSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FmlsK_nJKU

He also predicted the bailouts. Of course there'd be bailouts, he said, we have money printed out of thin air and a central planner who thinks that spending = wealth.

And now Occupy Wall Street is out on the streets demanding the exact same thing that Ron Paul is: an end to bailouts and government-approved theft.

The media is blacking them out just the same way they are ignoring Ron Paul. (He didn't even get a closing statement at the end of the last Republican Debate... he was the only one ignored). They're misrepresenting OWS's views, the same way that they tried to turn the Tea Party from a libertarian uprising into a Neo-Con movement.

They took the libertarian movements and shuffled them into two categories: The left and the right. TP got put into "the right" and OWS is being put into "the left".

... But this is incorrect - both movements are "reduced power of government" movements. But they're not being represented this way.

The Tea Party was once an off shoot of Ron Paul, and now the OWS movement is arguing for the exact same things (whether they realize it or not) as Ron Paul.

Both of these major movements are connected to Ron Paul.

That's why they're being largely ignored or misrepresented - both movements represent a reduction in state power.

Don't believe that the OWS has a lot in common with Ron Paul? Here's an article that has first hand coverage of the signs that look just like those found at a Ron Paul rally.

http://lewrockwell.com/spl3/a-lesson-in-democracy.html

America: give up on your mainstream media, they receive lots of money from government bailouts and would like to see their insurance stay in place.

America: wake up. You're libertarian. OWS and the Tea Party are proof.

Capitalism is about profit and loss, if you bailout the losers then there's no end to the cost.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think OWS is about reduction in state power--unless you mean police and military-- but a reduction in Corporate power....Ron Paul is a friend of de-regulation and making permanent the Bush tax cuts.
  
  He is still a Republican. Still takes those core values as his own. I don't think OWS does.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're against bailouts, right?
  
  Bailouts are theft, right?
  
  Then you're against the government power.
  
  ... oh, and it was hilarious to see YOU bring up police and military reductions. Ron Paul is for those as well!
  
  OWS's greatest political friend is Ron Paul, they just keep denying because he has an (R) in front of his name.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No actually, I don't see them aligned with anybody. And Ron Paul has an agenda that many of them may find unappealing.
  The fact that he spoke at a right to life event is the one that did it for me. No matter what he says...I know where his heart is.
  And he is a phony about freedom, if he denies me mine. "Leave it to the states" is code for "end it"...as we see happening right at this moment.
  
  R's elected to office are making abortions impossible to attain.
  He is an R.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me what "occupying wall street" and "abortion issues" have in common, please.
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  EXCEPT, that Ron Paul wants to eliminate all regulation, and OWS wants Wall Street to be regulated MORE, and with actual oversight.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who do you think is a better regulator of commerce:
  
  The unerring hand of cutthroat competition?
  
  or Some jerks who get millions in bribes from the companies they're supposed to be regulating?
  
  Wake up - Government is in bed with these companies, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE BEING BAILED OUT.
  
  Get government out.
  
  OWS - you ARE Ron Paul.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. get the WRONG gvt out...which Bushco was.
  
  Paul is not Bush, but he is anti-regulation.
  We see what they did with the gvt looking the other way..they will do 10 times worse with no gvt at all.
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  Evan G Rogersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Get the wrong government out"
  
  Yeah - that's the argument of current Communists.
  
  Wake up - government is the problem, not who's in charge of government.
  
  I'll let Milton Friedman make my arguments for me:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZL25NSLhEA
  
  I know that 7 minutes is too long to ask from the average hubber...
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, your entire response is to cut any regulation or oversight on said corporations? Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
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  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you forget WHY they want no government. Without government, they are FREE!
  
  Free to pollute, free to discriminate, free to rig elections, control entire towns, even states, get rid of the homosexuals, create any local law they want.. FREE!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep!
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  Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
You said they won't stand with him because he is a Republican...I'm saying yeah, I get that!

Abortion is a freedom issue and a human rights issue....something the Libertarians presume to speak for.
They all should be pro-choice as far as I'm concerned.
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gamergirlposted 12 years ago
Fact:

Tea Party people CAN be a part of OWS. Why? Because it IS in fact possible for people of diverse backgrounds and beliefs to get behind a common goal, a common cause, regardless of that diversity.

Really, and realistically, it is people of all backgrounds, beliefs, wage brackets, etc that make up the 99%, and we need to remember that. There are good and bad people behind every talking point, every cause, every political, social, religious movement.

Get past that, get under the banner. We are united, and will not be divided.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
This person doesn't think so: and all the Fox news, right-talk radio and politicians agree with him:

"Greedy people caused your problems? The majority of Americans don't think that way. Occupy space is a fad led by malcontents and obviously followed by sore losers."

Posted 21 minutes ago

This is the enemy you face.
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  Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They should agree with me I'm right.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
The American voters mind has two buttons and two only , he is being manipulated by one party or he other. Period ! And the voters fall for it every time there is a problem that brings out the protest signs. Poof ! We jump on one of two band wagons ! Once again its sad that the two party system is the only way our system works. Until we as Americans drop the safety of the two party lines and use our heads its never going to change. Vote the candidate , not the party ! And it will not change a thing until we all think the same way , oust the incumbants !
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
That's not the answer.IMO

And I don't know what the answer is. All I know is how can you have togetherness with someone who thinks of you as a useful idiot?
Or a dirty, whining bum?

What needs to change is us, and how can that happen?

The Cosmos must deliver a 2-by-4 to the head of our consciousness. That's what I think.

Get ready....
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  " All I know is how can you have togetherness with someone who thinks of you as a useful idiot? Or a dirty, whining bum?"
  
  Maybe if YOU and others on "your" side stopped doing the same thing, then both could come together and actually accomplish something.
  
  "What needs to change is us, and how can that happen?"
  
  One at a time, LMC, one at a time...maybe YOU should start, how about that? If someone as one-sided as you could admit that we could all come together by just giving a little, then maybe more would follow...
  
  No 2 by 4's needed then...
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry...I see myself as responding to them...and I'm sick and tired of their venom.
  
  I'll stop when and IF I see them stopping.
  
  Until then, I refuse to watch them bully the issue like they always do.
  
  In fact, that rant against the TeaParty CAME from hearing OWS called lazy, dirty, drug-addled sex and crapping everwhere bums.
  
  Maybe you should give that speech to Uncorrected and repair guy???
  
  Then maybe I'd think YOU were even-handed.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  I guess I reply to you the most because I disagree with more of what you say than what they say. BUT, I don't agree with everything they say, and I don't disagree with everything that YOU say...
  
  Nothing will ever change if all of you died in the wool Republicans and Democrats don't stop playing the blame game with each other...I feel sorry for our future generations if this doesn't end.
  
  Ever heard of "The Zax", by Dr. Seuss? Just substitute their "North/South" for "Right/Left" or "Republican/Democrat"...
  
  http://youtu.be/2cNbii3mbhM
  
  There you go....
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're wrong. Your sentiment is good, but I think these R's are not normal people who want to "serve" in gvt.....I think they are insane criminals. And Bushco was too.
  
  I will do everything in my power...which is really nothing, to get them the hell out of there.
  
  And I think you are part of the problem when you point the finger at me, and leave the other side alone.
  
  Uncorrected called liberals cockroaches, rats, parasites and vermin.
  
  and???? I geuss that's OK, since no one said Boo.
  
  But watch the flak I get for my statement above.
  If people want us to "come together"...they should stop taking sides too. Just sayin.
  
  And silence is complicity.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
"Hate is such a strong word. Who has that kind of energy. I don't hate liberals for what they are any more than I hate cockroaches or rats for what they are. It is in the nature of some things to be parasites and vermin."

Here is uncorrected on the Total Outrage thread...

Perfect opportunity to ask him to stop.
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SparklingJewelposted 12 years ago
geez, ya'll...the intent was for perspective not venom...the unity and answers are there if you would just look for them instead of this constant barrage of blame and name calling...we need to pull ourselves up out of the moral morass of sludge and drivel...open your hearts and minds to a higher consciousness

making it filthy where you are is not a good thing

pointing a finger at the other doing not good things isn't a good thing

what are the common answers of higher consciousness

stop with all the divide and conquer tactics

we have a future to create, not continues this downward spiral of anger, hate and blame
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I so agree with you...I refuse to give up hope that it can happen.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll tell you, speaking for myself...it will never happen when people use World Net Daily as a source, and bring up Obama's elegibility.
  
  Hate masked as "Hmmmmmmmm", doesn't fool me!
  
  And until there is some REAL doing as you all tell others to do....I'm not buying the Kumbaya!
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have a clue what you're talking about here, LMC, as usual you're getting all wound up.
  
  As long as you insist on living by the rule of "If they're gonna do it, I'm gonna do it" then there is no use talking to you anymore. Continue on with your hate-filled life--I really do feel sorry for you, with all this vitriol stored up inside of you and taking over everything you say and do here. I hope that someday you manage to find some sort of peace inside of you...
  
  You and others--not just to you specifically--are part of the problem, not the cure. As long as you all continue acting like this on both sides, with the constant insults and blather, then you may as well give up on this country ever healing.
  
  Kumbaya that.
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This one:
  
  "geez, ya'll...the intent was for perspective not venom...the unity and answers are there if you would just look for them instead of this constant barrage of blame and name calling...we need to pull ourselves up out of the moral morass of sludge and drivel...open your hearts and minds to a higher consciousness
  
  making it filthy where you are is not a good thing
  
  pointing a finger at the other doing not good things isn't a good thing
  
  what are the common answers of higher consciousness
  
  stop with all the divide and conquer tactics
  
  we have a future to create, not continues this downward spiral of anger, hate and blame"
  ***
  
  2 seconds later started a thread with a link to World Net Daily...a notorious right-wing hate site, questioning Obama's birth...yet again.
  
  So much for divide and conquer...They are doing it!
  You seem to want me to be the passive one here, while they continue to attack.
  
  Responding to an attack is not the same as attacking. Just ONCE--I would like to see you go after an attacker.
  But you won't, because they suit your ideology.
  So please do not lecture me on my life and tell me what I'm full of...you have not a clue.
  
  When I ONCE see you lecture an Obama-denigrator, I will believe you want this country to heal.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
"Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya.......

"The Portland Press Herald reports that last night a chemical bomb was tossed into the Occupy Maine protest encampment. The bomb was thrown directly into the camp’s kitchen, within proximity of the three dozen camps set up there. Police say the homemade bomb “consisted of chemicals poured into a plastic Gatorade container could have caused serious injury” and are still looking for suspects"

Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya"
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  lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Rep Paul Ryan (R-Wis) to deliver @Heritage on Weds a.m. 'aimed at combating the politics of division."
  
  He wrote the book. What's the matter, only OK when he's doing the dividing??
  
  God, more acting. Sure hope he's better than Beck and Boehner.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vi … eId=358645

Read it and feel the love.
From one who was telling others to stop the dividing.
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
"Will no one rid us of this fraud -- this usurper -- this liar -- this Alinsky-instigator -- this terminal narcissist -- this felony alterer of our governmental documents -- this Frank Marshall Davis, BO's mentor, product -- this Marxist -- this leader-from-his-behind -- this potential Aids-infested-creep -- Who is this man -- Why did he seal his kindergarten records; was he such a demonic character even as a small boy -- what could be hidden in his kindergarten records that could be in need of being sealed from public view -- is this sorry excuse for a human being such a low-life, no-good-nik that he needs to keep his early childhood records from public view -- Let Me Ask -- Are you ashamed of your earliest days on this earth? -- -- Who is paying for the team/gang of lawyers attempting to keep all of BO's records top secret -- Jim"
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
"making it filthy where you are is not a good thing"

Oh REALLY?
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
Higher consciousness? "Aids infested creep"?
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lovemychrisposted 12 years ago
"Latest Right Wing Smear: Occupy a front group for the Islamic Brotherhood. No, I'm not kidding."

"Herman Cain spent $1M of his own money to fund racist political ads accusing Dems of wanting to kill "black babies" http://thkpr.gs/sgCytY

Any more togetherness and I'm going to puke.
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Mighty Momposted 12 years ago
Replace liberals' President with Bush/Cheney and "Yes, we can" with "Support our Troops" and "Mission accomplished" and you've got it exactly right.
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  uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Pretty sure the negativity aimed at his fellow Americans has been a hallmark of the Obama administration. Get to the back of the bus, get in their face, make our enemies pay, don't go to Vegas, fat cats, greedy, no private jets - the name caller in cheif - I hope you are proud.
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