That view in the mirror

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   Sky9106posted 12 years ago

   Do you think life would have been better or worse, had mankind not been able to see any reflexion of himself period?

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      AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think it would make that much difference.
      
      Human ego will stlil be human ego, with or without the visual aide...

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         Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for your thoughtful answer . That ego is one that is in the top three included in formulating the question.
         It just came to me the ways we make decisions pertaining to others . Just what if we could never see ourselves in no place we look , having to be at the mercies of others to make yourself all the ways we choose to make us feel that difference. You can see others they can see you , but you cant see yourself .
         Thanks Ashton.

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            AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Hmm...I'm not sure that would be a good thing. We would always have to base our concept of how we looked, on someone else's view of us.
            Our reaction to it would be dependent upon others' feedback. If we got a mix of both negative and positive response, we would be more likely to attribute the concept of beauty as relative, because we would be getting mixed messages. If it was predomininantly positive, we would see ourselves as beautiful or good looking. If it was predominantly negative, I think we would see ourselves as bad looking or ugly..hm....interesting question

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               Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I am now seeing more of if it truly is and as I was reading I smiled at this part. Looking at beauty as relative , and that would have been that way from the onset. That's why there must be a higher understanding involved in all this , because as far as our mind could go , that power have to have been there done that. Look at all those different boundaries mankind , are believed to have trespassed on and he did not come back he always told himself that he adjusted.
               This is one of those questions , when you take  a glance over your shoulders , see where we are and possibly where you have come from , you question yourself as if you are a part of the true collective and a question of major importance arises.
               Looks may not have been an issue and mirrors might have been a crime.
               That's why if will always be hypothetical.
               I could easily have asked are we better off now than a couple of thousand years ago , and the unanimous answer would be yes m for reasons of epic proportions, so to speak.
               Thanks

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hey Ashton, is this something you really believe or are you guessing?
         
         Either way, it would be incorrect. The Human Ego wasn't a factor until self-awareness became known to the individual. Self awareness(the conscious mind) is all about self perception and perception of the world around us.
         
         The sub-conscious part of Human Consciousness doesn't possess ego.

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            AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            My point was that we're all naturally self-centered or self-focused , and that the presence or absence of a mirror wouldn't change that fact.
            
            Neither guessing nor believing. Just a thought.

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               Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               And this would be untrue. Naturally, we are led by our subconscious. Which isn't about self at all.

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                  AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I guess I would have to understand what you mean by that. Being "led" by our subconcious. What do you feel our subconscious is about? I have a feeling I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
                  So you do not feel that we are being naturally selfish or wanting our own desires apart from others' desires? Sorry just trying to clarify I want to be sure I'm understanding.

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     The subconscious is the collective of everything heard, seen, felt, touched, smelled and experienced(including all knowledge).
                     
                     The right side of the brain where the subconsciousness exists stores everything. As a child growing up, you learn to use the left side of your brain, which is for rationale, sane(reasoning), logic....it is your conscious mind.
                     Ego is derived from the conscious mind and circumvents the subconscious conscience whenever it chooses, which isn't natural. Naturally, humans are a loving and compassionate species as individuals, not selfish and misguided. It's when an individual has no ability to see beyond self, does one become obsessively selfish.
                     
                     It's the difference between being "evil" and "good" naturally. Humankind isn't inherently bad. Quite the opposite.

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                        AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Hmm...but wouldn't ego be just as natural since it is derived from our conscious mind, which is natural to us as humans?
                        Sorry if I sound dense. What you are saying is very new to me so I want to make sure I'm seeing all facets of it.

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                           Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           The only thing about the conscious mind seeming to be natural is the perception. And, perception can be skewed by the ego, so it wouldn't be natural.

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                              AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              So it is not natural, we just perceive it to be so? Wouldn't something be natural simply because all human species have it, and therefore it is natural to them?

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                                 Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Correct, on an individual level, we perceive what grants us the ability to know ourselves and the world around us. Thus, it allows each of us to be comfortable in our own skin.
                                 No. Not all human beings are born with both requisites of the human consciousness. A prime example is that a baby's eyes are not fully developed when born, so perception doesn't exist and since perception doesn't exist, neither does self awareness(the conscious mind). A baby doesn't have control of it's body either, like it's unable to use the muscles in it's neck to maintain head control.
                                 
                                 Secondly, sexuality is something everyone has, but isn't seen as natural to all, which is another example of perception.
                                 
                                 The conscious mind is something people have to grow into and learn how to use. How quickly they learn to use it and understand it, is solely based on self awareness and perception of the world around them.

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                                    AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    Ahh, okay. What you are saying makes sense now.
                                    
                                    So you are saying we are born naturally with a subconscious, but the conscious mind is something we learn to use and therefore are not born with; and that therefore is not techncially natural?
                                    But wouldn't the fact that we all, as humans, ultimately grow into using this conscious mind, make it natural in the sense that we all eventually acquire this?
                                    I guess what I am saying is that regardless of how it comes to be, we all would eventually acquire and use the conscious mind.  I came to the conclusion that the inclincation of that conscious mind is self-focus and self-preservation. I wasn't necessarily stating humans were bad naturally, but that humans were naturally self-focused and self-preserving. I don't think that's necessarily a bad trait unless it leads us to react against others offensively with the idea that we are better than they are.That is, left unchecked or went out of balance, it would cause people to become self-inflated. 
                                    But... If I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is that seeing ourselves as most important is not a product of nature, but of the way in which we learn to perceive ourselves and others, since using the conscious mind is something "learned"?

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                                       Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes.

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                                          AshtonFireflyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          Okie dokie.

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      Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think if we didn't have the ability to see pictures of ourselves and to see ourselves in mirrors, we would still see ourselves in the places that matter the most and that cause the most changes in our behavior and our own opinion of what we're doing. That place is in other people's eyes.  We lose our way most often when we stop paying attention to that, or when we have so much wealth that others want that they stop being honest with us about how we're acting.

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         Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for you also thoughtful reply. That again is another in the whole scheme of the question, because we fail to realize that it is perfect the way it is, I would say the way God designed it. Could you imagine a world of all you.
         The honesty get lost and the selfishness steps in, the greed and the looks, all plays tricks on modern mankind. 
         That's why this was  never meant to be about any one person ,but rather about us, but that is only wishful thinking at this time.
         Bless.

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            Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            And that also would be another thing they would have to think about , because you will be holding a greater position.

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      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      To answer your question- if one wasn't able to see or perceive one's own reflection, then self awareness would be a much slower process and life would be worse.

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      A Thousand Wordsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You know, I wonder! What an interesting question. I couldn't even wrap my mind around such a scenario. I think it's hard to say if it'd be better or worse. The level of trust people had for each other would definitely be something almost unknown to us now. But, if it were something we accustomed to, whose to say whether it would be better or worse. Man, I wish I could create a temporary universe with this in play and see how it would play out.

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         Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Quite awesome ,but don't rule out anything , this life is all we have and I have seen some wonders already.

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      Cara.Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Sky9106,
      
      It would change a person. I have a link but not sure I can post it here. If I can, I'll send it to you. It's about a woman, 6 months before her wedding, who decided to not look in the mirror for a year. She has a website documenting the whole thing.

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         Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Don't too much understand the forum but i am learning. Cara I responded to you but it seems to have disappeared. I would love to see this.

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      phillippeengelposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A reflection merely tells you what you look like. You might be piqued or satisfied with your appearance, but what is important is that you refrain from being too calculative about beauty because nature will take care of itself.

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         Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         thanks phillippeengel, It's a point that is heading in an unselfish direction, and that's what matters best.

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   Greek Oneposted 12 years ago

   ..and deprive my eyes of seeing my own beauty?!?!?!?!

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      Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Nice to see you Cagsil. You really thing worse ?

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes worse. How would you like to live all of your life without ever knowing you actually lived?

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            Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That we won't know. The question is not being able to see oneself . as the their own physicality. not knowledge of existence.
            Was proposing trying to remove one aspect of our existence that is known to have caused unwise conflicts in the past.

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               Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You cannot remove one aspect of our existence without making a conscious effort to do so, which requires self awareness.

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                  Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Still have plenty to learn about this forum , I thought your post would be on the bottom. Now I got it.
                  That why I left the question in the tense of "do you think , life would have been"  what's that past something?
                  It's one of those questions , if is was, or would it have been? It's not taking out now that we already come to know , because it can't be re done.
                  So what you think?

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     And as I said, if things continued as it was, without self awareness and the ability to perceive the world around us, then no life would have been worse and the simple fact is that if self awareness did not grow as it did, then humankind would already be extinct.

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                        Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Would they then have been living according to any order or plan , like Gods plan ? Believe it or not I am just checking Moses and the children of Israel.
                        So are you saying that self awareness, is somewhat responsible for the longevity of the race?
                        Or probably by keeping that self awareness in check that helped preserve the species?

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   Muldaniaposted 12 years ago

   I think there would be many benefits had mankind  not learnt to recognise his own reflection.  Our obsession with appearance and our unhappiness if it falls below the standards set by a beauty obsessed society can be an obstacle in life, which we could do without.  Having said that, I don't believe soiciety has always been as obsessed with beauty as it is today.

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      Sky9106posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Bless. That's without saying , we , well all humanity is we, this obsession was definitely not one of such predisposed or sought after in the fake way it is today.
      But the truth is, from my individual observation. it went down a bit , that's if I am seeing correctly .  lol
      I actually think it would have also , but to each his rightful own , and I really do appreciate all answers .

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