How Naive are We?

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   I was just reading through some of the more emotional and fanatical posts on the religious threads and I'm beginning to wonder how many of the more extreme posts aren't simply theatrics. Reality TV style.
   
   Am I the only one who thinks that most of the extreme religious posts are nothing more than the product of someone who doesn't care one way or the other about religion entertaining themselves? Or atheists/agnostics having a laugh at the expense of the religious?
   
   Some of the thoughts shared are just too over the top to be believed. Am I the only one who thinks that this whole development of scripture posting in a rainbow of colors and claims of Satan worshiping corporations and leaders is done in jest?

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      DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I am not quite sure to be honest...
      
      But I am thinking that some truly believe what they are posting.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That may be true, but have you ever met anyone in the real world that claims any of this; or appears to be so completely wrapped up in seeing evil everywhere? You couldn't very well hide this.
         
         I have never run across anything like this in real life. And, I do understand we are reading posts by people from all of the world; but I would honestly think that somewhere, in all of my travels, I might have run across something that remotely resembles any of this. If it were real.

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            DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Actually yes, I have met one or two people in real life. They are current residents at an unnamed Psychriatic Hospital undergoing treatment. Being a minister, hospitals, prisons, homeless shelters and other places of this type are places I visit frequently. You may or not be surprised at some of the claims, stories or "worlds" some of people who require these places, live in or tell.

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               The next question would be...Do these people have inrestricted access to the internet?

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                  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Those in the Psych hospital...Umm... that would be a huge no!!!..
                  
                  Those in homeless shelters or not receiving help...I don't know their internet access...

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Religions are based on spiritual things.  Even the ones that don't claim such.   Christians know that there's a spiritual/Spiritual battle underlying all aspects of the Christian religion.  So, nothing is too far-fetched to be considered in that light.
      
      So, while I do believe that some people may post ideas and stuff just to see what responses they'll get for the sake of humor or mockery, there's a spiritual aspect at the base of it no matter what!  I think that those who think they're just playing a game are ultimately getting more than they bargained for, because these are serious matters.
      
      No words are void.  Words matter.  And their origination is the heart of mankind.  Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth does speak.   I've seen posts from Christians and atheists both that seem outlandish.  Especially I've seen an abundance of mockery and game-playing from nonBelievers.  But nothing is impossible in the spiritual realm.  It's only our perception that's often limited.
      
      If you're referring in particular to the poster I think you are, then I must say yes that person's ideas are very possibly true;  he or she is looking at things with the knowledge of that spiritual/Spiritual battle that underlies all things.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Brenda, I appreciate your sentiment. And, even though I don't always agree with you I can, most times, understand where you are coming from.
         
         You have not, however, claimed that Satan created beings on other planets who came here and genetically modified our species so that we would more complacently mine gold for them. Nor have you run about posting in Caps that others are evil. Those are the behavior patterns that can't be coming from a position of honesty.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I see what you mean.  Maybe I didn't read that particular thread or hub or whatever.   But I have heard those ideas before!   I've even heard several Christians who believe in the possibility that there are "aliens" on other planets.  I don't understand that either, especially coming from a supposed Christian.  But it does happen.
            
            On the flip side, it astonishes me every time someone posts their idea that an unborn child isn't really a child, that people should have the right to kill that little person on a whim.  That, to me, is a total breach of reality.  But it does happen.  Do they say such things to provoke a reaction, or do they really believe the things they say?  I dunno.
            
            Maybe all of those people need some kind of help?!   But what are we to do, in either situation?  And in which situation do which people have the responsibility or ability to judge their state of mind?

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well, let's look at your statement. You don't think there is a possbility of aliens on other planets. Other Christians do. So what? You disagree. Neither of you are making claims of spiritual powers by those aliens. Neither of you think Satan created them. Neither of you are claiming that they gave us Reptilian brains and that's why we can't get right with God.
               
               I'm not sure I understand why being a Christian would prohibit someone from thinking there is other life outside of our planet, but I don't think that conclusion is held by only Christians. It's what you think.
               
               I'm not going to respond to your abortion comment. This is not the same thing. Women get pregnant. That's a fact. If you told me that aliens from Niburu told you that abortion is wrong or right, I'd call you crazy.
               
               I am not implying that people need help. What I am questioning is whether or not some of these extreme posts are really what some people think.

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               Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Brenda,Brenda! I am reading through the lines you have written and sense your sarcasm. It would be very errogant for you or I to presume that the God we worship has any limitations, that He could not if He so chose to, create another planet somewhere in the universe that sustains life as earth does complete with beings like us. It would also be errogant, to think that our universe is not parallelled by yet another identical to ours only in a different time. There is nowhere in the Bible that denies or confirms this, but God being God, is capable of creating anything anywhere, otherwise, He is not truly God.
               
               I fully agree with you on a fetus being life. From the instant of conception, God places a spirit into that fetus, a spirit that stays and grows along with its human host, until such time as God recalls the spirit and the body dies.

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         ScepticFaithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Great Post!
         I love what you said about the origin of the issue.
         Often the heart of the matter is... The Heart of the matter.
         
         I have heard of charlatans going to 3rd world countries and soliciting large donations from extremely poor people. Some of these poor people are fooled into making commitments to these evil bastards. They believe they are honoring a call of God. Though they are fools and will reap the reward of fools on this earth. Their Hearts are noble. I believe that even though they are lining the pockets of charlatans, God sees their true motive is to honor Him, and he’ll reward them for that.
         Even though they are wrong to not discern a charlatan.
         
         Many people of Faith have foolish & ignorant understandings.
         In the end it is the motive and intents of the Heart that matter.
         And by these we will all be judged.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I cannot presume to speak for others nor would I ever. I will not even presume to speak for "Christians" in general for it is wrong to generalize and it is wrong for me to assume that all other Christians, agree with my way of seeing things, or my specific Christian knowledge and wisdom.
      
      Speaking for myself, if and when I comment solely as a Christian in the Forums, I do so based upon my limited Christian teachings and knowledge of my Christian Faith. I try to do so in a loving manner and an instructive manner, but I have to admit that sometimes, some of the unbelievers get under my skin, and I argue back sometimes with strong emotional words.
      
      As for scripture postings, a Christian will use scripture to validate their stand, validate what they are trying to say. The thing is, the person at the other end maybe could care less about some quote in some book, especially the Bible. The Bible is the one book an unbeliever does not want to hear about or be told to read.
      
      With me, when it comes to a battle of wits and knowledge and wisdom, with the topic of religion, there is no jesting. It is a serious topic, because it involves the loss or saving of ones spirit, ones soul, and that's nothing to jest about.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The atheists don't bother me too much. To them religion is a fools game, so you get what you get from them.
      
      What I find frustrating are the fundamentalists who will not countenance their views being challenged. They are rigid stiff necked people who are not interested in exchanging ideas. To attempt to reason with them is futile.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's what I used to think until I realised that some people are actually for real. If you make it socially acceptable to harbour unfounded beliefs then you open the floodgates for all sorts of unfounded crazy assertions.

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      ScepticFaithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Great Point.
      
      Sadly there are alot of nut jobs that truely believe that crazy stuff

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think their an attempt at 1-upmanship, the desire to feel important. It's as if those that post such drivel, are those either trying to bolster their position or appear righteous, more so than others. It could possibly be a pride thing, munchausen syndrome or some form of narcissism. The possibility of a form of psychological disturbance may also be prevalent.

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         ScepticFaithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed
         You nailed it, especially on the issue of narcissistic pride.
         I would add this thought...
         They have Doubt.
         I read through how offended people get when someone has an opposing view.
         I see them present such intellectually dishonest and one sided responses. I am left to think that if they truly believed what they say then how they can be offended by an opposing view?
         I know what I believe and I’m convinced on every level. You cannot offend me.
         I am willing to agreeably agree, to disagree with anyone on every subject.
         Why?
         Because what I believe personally is firmly set in my own heart, and I’m honest enough to let my faith grow & evolve. Closed minded people cannot do that.

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   Eric Newlandposted 12 years ago

   I can confirm that they are allowed Internet access, however if they create their own websites they are required to identify themselves by using terrible 90's-style formatting, lots of oversized bold text, and animated gifs that are aliased for a completely different background color than the eye-bleeding #0000FF blue that they chose, so they have a white fringe around them.

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   Eric Newlandposted 12 years ago

   And now I feel let down that I missed the satanic alien discussion. Kind of sounds like a combination of Christianity and Scientology.

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   Nice forum....I like it.

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      Eric Newlandposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That opinion sounds pretty far-fetched. Are you sure that's what you really believe?

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         See what I mean? Where do they come up with this sh*t?

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   tammybarnetteposted 12 years ago

   That is a good point, some atheist forums seem to be only to ignite anger in christian believers. However, when you speak about leaders of the world worshiping Satan I believe this to be true. I'm not saying all leaders and all rich people or even all Freemasons,but I have done extensive research on this subject. We are surrounded by a spirit world that can not be seen by the human eye, there are many biblical references to this fact. I believe it is easy to see the power Satan holds in the world today.I believe it is easy to see Revelations unfolding before our eyes. I am not at all surprised that many do not want to believe or want to see but those with ears should listen and those with eyes should see.

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      vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I too have done deep research in this area, and I agree.
      
      And I, and others, know what is going to happen. And every day I wake up the news make more sense, and the people denying what we 'crazy' people see make less.
      
      I at one time couldn't understand how people could not see the things which I seen. I now am just one of a very large many who see what I see, and I also now understand how and why so many cannot, and/or refuse not to see it.
      
      It just makes me all fuzzy inside every time I see more proof of the revealed future. I couldn't be happier.
      
      Means I could care less what people think I am. I know what I know.
      
      

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   aka-djposted 12 years ago

   Honesty begets honesty.
   Jest begets jest.
   Sarcasm begets sarcasm.
   Ridicule begets ridicule.
   
   If you don't know what I meant by that, let me explain.
   I respond in kind. If you are honest with me, I will be with you.
   Perhaps it's not the IDEAL attitude, but I've been here for a wee little while, and I'm over some peoples attitudes.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      We all disagree on some levels. But, when a professed Christian goes out of their way to be supportive of behavior patterns that are anti social and completely out of touch with reality, I begin to understand where the atheist posters who claim Christianity is dangerous are coming from.
      
      Spirituality is not a team sport dj. If you are going to take sides with the crazies, simply because somewhere in their outlandish post there is an obscure reference to Jesus; you lose any credibility when you chose to explain why you, too, believe.

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         aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I never start the tone in a nasty way.
         Many atheists only know to respond that way.
         Ridicule seems the norm, and the order of the day.
         
         I used to turn the other cheek, so to speak, now I tend to turn the table.
         Better yet, I stay away from pointless, useless arguing. Saves me time and frustration.
         I tend to be a lot more laid back these days, and just have some fun where I can.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So, help me out here dj. Where did I go wrong in the OP. I've read posts in this thread by mainstream Christians who appear to think this whole thread was directed at them. It wasn't. I don't have a problem with faith, for the most part. I disagree with a lot of what you guys say, but I can see where you get your conclusions.
            
            The whole point of the thread was to question if those who post things that would be considered clearly delusional....across the lines of atheism and religion...are serious.
            
            Do you consider yourself to be emotional and fanatical? Do you think it would be rational for someone to view you as such? If not, I'm curious as to what your point is.

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               aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               No, I do not on both counts. But nearly every atheist I have ever chatted with DID. That changes my approach from posting "serious" comments, as per your OP. It's at that point I can get sarcastic, silly and argumentative.
               I can't speak for how others view me. They often "shoot first, and (don't) ask questions later".
               Quite frankly, that's the part that I have had a gutfull with. Stupid atheists who care  nothing about the person, just go for the jugular with their tirade of insults and assaults.
               
               I even posed a question in the Questions section of Hubpages, asking whether "this" (the comment I was banned for) was worthy of being banned from the forum for. It too was removed by the moderators. I was simply pointing out the obvious, and got slapped for it.
               Care factor? ZERO.

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                  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  @aka-dj strange....most atheist i have met here are among most intelligent people who are well mannered , can reason things out and can discuss...infact often i get confused that whether it is people who claim to be christians or atheist who are in synergy with teachings of jesus like treat others in way you want to be treated , give others ur other cheek ...most christians i have come across out here , tend to impose their bible and tend to speak as if they themselves are more than christ...

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                     mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Ego makes their belief a fact...

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                     aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     They may be, but many seem to leave those traits outside the door, so to speak, when they enter the religion forum.
                     
                     As I clearly pointed out, "most" referred to the nasty ones. NOT all are that way. I actually enjoy talking with anyone who can be civil.

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                        pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        got that...

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't know you had been banned. Sorry. There rarely seems to be any rhyme or reason to the bannings. I've seen horrible comments that they let slide and then they take offense at others. Go figure.
                  
                  Anyway, I assume the atheists can't be serious. They appear to be using a preset formula whose sole purpose is to get a rise out of the theist.
                  
                  But, my primary question here is; do other hubbers think that the posts that are clearly out in some left field in a parallel universe are real? I can't wrap my head around anyone either believing God created Christ in order to level the playing field with beings from other planets; or that anyone who disagrees with them is pure EVIL and posting long and color strewn posts telling them they are hell bound.
                  
                  How come you guys down chirp in on these? I would think you'd find them as counter to your own beliefs as you consider the atheists to be.

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                     mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Leave it to the crazies to believe, that they themselve's are sane...

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                     aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     There are some extremely strange views out there.
                     The mistake that we can all too easily make is that just because the name of Christ is used (or Christian), that somehow it's all ONE and the SAME. It's not!
                     But, it's not my job to speak for them, just for me.
                     I have always said that christianity is NOT a religion, but nearly every atheist I said that to just can't get it. I can't help them, and it seems they can't help themselves either.

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                        mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        It is a religion and here's how you can tell;
                        
                        1) It contains a doctrine.
                        
                        2) It has adherants to it's principals.
                        
                        3) There is a regimented system of procedures, designed to bring the believers closer to their god.
                        
                        I guess you're right though, it's not a religion if you don't think it is.

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                           aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Not sure I agree with your main points as pertaining the qualifications of what constitutes a religion.
                           But I can definitely disagree with no 3. I follow no system, nor procedures to get closer to God.
                           That's probably my greatest contention with religion. It's the one thing that sets christianity apart from all the others, as I'm sure you are well aware!

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                              mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              It's either a religion or a cult...
                              
                              
                              re·li·gion
                                 [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
                              
                              noun
                              1.
                              a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
                              
                              2.
                              a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
                              
                              3.
                              the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
                              
                              4.
                              the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
                              
                              5.
                              the practice of religious  beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
                              
                              
                              
                              
                              cult
                                 [kuhlt] Show IPA
                              
                              noun
                              1.
                              a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
                              
                              2.
                              an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
                              
                              3.
                              the object of such devotion.
                              
                              4.
                              a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
                              
                              5.
                              Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

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                        Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I'll be honest. If you quote scripture and use a book that you claim be the word of God to guide you on your spiritual path; I think you've got religion. I'm not sure how else to look at it.

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                           aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Thank you for your honesty.
                           I'm not sure how I can explain it.
                           I have a hub (not supposed to self promote, but it's relevant to this discussion) about how I came to faith.
                           It may shed some light on this, if you care to track it down.
                           In fact, many of my hubs actually point people in the right direction, to discover this path for themselves.
                           After all, that's what we (christians) should do, point people TO Christ, and let them discover their own path with Him.

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   aka-djposted 12 years ago

   I suggest you get a life.
   
   I have not time to rebut every point
   I restate that I follow NO SYSTEM.
   
   Let me just say, I love my wife, and I have lived with her for 32 (almost 33) years, and I never followed any rituals or systems to show my love, devotion or respect for her, good times, bad times or nothing exciting times.
   So it is between me and Jesus (God).
   Whilst religions and cults are trying to connect people to God, I am already there!
   
   Why am I not surprised YOU don't get it either??
   I guess I'm not, really.

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You can believe in God without religion but the second you go to church, you become religious.

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         aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There you go!
         You can't differentiate between church, and church!
         I go to church (a building), but I AM (a part of a body of believers, numbering millions all over the planet) church.

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            mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Then you are part of an established religion, as much as you'd like to refute the position.

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               aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well, I'm glad you have satisfied yourself in categorising me.
               
               Good for you!
               
               So, tell me, what established group are you part of?
               The X-chistian group?
               The has-been-religious group?
               The "I'm an individual" group?
               Or, the NON group group?
               
               Have I missed any?
               
               My apologies for the sarcasm, it gets the better of me sometimes.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm just an observer.

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                     aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry, but that doesn't cut it!
                     
                     But if you say so!
                     
                     Good bye!

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                        pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        @aka why are u so upset?....see it is difficult to separate bible and Christianity....jesus - bible = 0 because hardly any historian outside bible even noted about his existence....so general reaction would be that u r christian....u stated ur position and others are stating their view point...

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                           aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           I am not upset.
                           I gave that up years ago.
                           I can't be bothered with this kind of time wasting, that's all.
                           
                           I don't need any outside sources to tell me Jesus existed, though they do exist.
                           But, like everything else, if it doesn't suit the person's bias, it's discarded or disregarded.
                           
                           I don't care for other people's pont of view of ME.
                           They are basing it all on what exactly? A misunderstood set of posts I made? Please!!

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                              pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              @aka-dj i get that u dont need outside source and i am not saying that...though history wants more outside source than inside ones...but thats different topic...my point is when u mention scriptures people would obviously take u as christian and discuss with you accordingly....suppose i quote on quran extensively and then say oh i believe in quran but i am not muslim...now that idea is hard to understand...isnt it?

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                                 aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't get your point.
                                 I never denied being christian, nor refute quoting scripture.
                                 
                                 It's being tagged as religious that I am arguing against.
                                 People just don't get it, and I'm tired of trying to explain (the unexplainable) it!

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                                    Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    By definition of the word relious, if you believe in a god, then you are religious.
                                    
                                    Why are you so determined to NOT be tagged as religious? Is it because you like to think of yourself as different because all the other religions are wrong and yours is not the same (even though it is)?

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                                       aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Oh no, not you too!!!
                                       
                                       Never mind.
                                       I won't go through it all again.
                                       Think what you want. I really don't care.
                                       It's late anyway!

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                                          Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          lol goodnight

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                                    pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    ok...my mistake...i thought u r saying u r not christian but u believe in christ...

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                        mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I would totally agree with you, had I not the abillity to criticize my own beliefs. As I have said on countless occasions "I am neither theist nor atheist, to me they are both equally valid, I don't see either side as being right to that effect". To me, I am just observing things in a subjective manner. Yes, sometimes I bait conversations and yes, I have a tendancy to be critical but everything I say has a purpose. For instance; When I point out the illusion of a correct point of view, it's not to insult anyone and the written language lacks inflection.

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                           Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           If you believe in a god then you are a theist. If you dont believe in a god you are an atheist. How can you be neither?

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                              mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Any god or deveil that I have, is ultimately a manifestation of myself. Therefor, it is not logical to assume that it exists. To the same effect, to say something is not real for another, is to deny another's personal level of subjectivity or what have you. Also it is a standpoint that frees me from having to accept a title...

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                                 Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 It doesnt make sense though. I think you are confusing atheism with gnosticism.
                                 
                                 I dont believe in a god so I am atheist but I am also agnostic since I dont claim to know that there is no god.

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                                    mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    I see all sides as being personally valid to the individual, but if you wanted to call me anything or place a title on me, you could call me an amalgamated intelligence.

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                                       Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       lol I can call you anything that you fit the definition of

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                                          mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          Whatever you observe me to be is on you, I will continue to claim no true position.

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                                             Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                             Not believing in a god is as much a position as not playing football is a sport.

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                                                mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                I didn't say there was no god, I am saying however, that it's just as much real for theists, as science is for geeks. And to me, it's all just a matter of preferance, personal desire, attachment, obsession, whatever, etc;.

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                                                   Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                   I know you did not say there is no god and I didnt claim that you did. What is real is objective and not subjective. Peoples thoughts cannot change reality unless you are referring to the reality of their thoughts (that debate could go on for a while...)
                                                   
                                                   I simply stated that since you dont believe in any god, that you are an atheist and since you dont claim any knowledge about wether or not any gods exist, that makes you an agnostic atheist, by definition.

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