Bullying

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   Writer Riderposted 14 years ago

   I've been appalled by how some of the people are treated, including myself (though I could care less because I don't know these people), and it makes for a very uncomfortable experience. I'm not naming names but I am suggesting that hubpages crack down on these people.

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      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Can you elaborate please?

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         Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hubbers shouldn't be ganging up on a person, people from a particular country, people with a particular religion, and people from a particular race (I've seen that to). To make this place a better experiences the moderators should moderate comments and threads. After all, this is suppose to be a civilized place.

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            frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Writer - I get where you're coming from but this isn't a school playground. The Hubteam aren't patrolling dinner-ladies. In particular, we're supposedly adults. Therefore we should be capable of modifying our own behaviour/s.
            
            I have seen incidents that are pretty rough. Still - this is an open forum. And it's indicative of life as you or I know it. People fratch. People get along. Some individuals are pernickety. Others are the opposite.
            
            It's the sea of life - on your computer screen.
            
            My personal opinion (read: personal) is that you can either let it affect you or accept it for what it is. And the word 'civilised' simply means cultured, educated, refined etc.
            That kind of behaviour will only occur in a place of eternal peace. And that because everyone is of a peaceful disposition.
            
            It also has to be said that (for eg) many post in a question format. That's great - that invites debate. However ... it's how they write the question. 'I'm a Believer. And God says in the Bible that gays are sinners. I'm with God. What are your thoughts?' ... see? A question and judgemental.
            
            The first thing that most will pick up on is the obvious and open declaration that the OP is negative towards individuals according to their sexual preferences. Others may feel that it's 'bible thumping' - as in the strong religious beliefs of another being forced upon them.
            
            Is that, in itself, any different from bullying?

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               Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The first thing that most will pick up on is the obvious and open declaration that the OP is negative towards individuals according to their sexual preferences. Others may feel that it's 'bible thumping' - as in the strong religious beliefs of another being forced upon them.
               
               Is that, in itself, any different from bullying?
               
               ----->But that's what I'm taking about.

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                  darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm unsure which side you're talking about.
                  
                  If a person says "gay is evil mmkay!" and goes on about incessantly and then others say "what the hell are you on about?" are you implying the first person is a bully because they won't let up, or the second party?

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                     Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Personally, I feel that people should let gay people alone or word their hubs in such a way that it doesn't offend them. Gay people are people not subordinate beings after all.

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                        darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I agree with you.
                        
                        While there are some people thumping a drum of anti-gay sentiment, I think they get their comeuppance from the good folk of the HubPages community.
                        
                        I don't see their actions as bullying, just stupidity.

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                           Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Yeah, I agree with you there.

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                              earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              I do get annoyed at presumptive questions in the religious forums sometimes...

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               Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               There's a limit everywhere and there should be a limit here.

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               Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Because we are adults does not mean they should be rude. It is low level if someone call others lazy, idiots, lunatics. Are we civilized or not?

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                  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Some of us, some times... It's life

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            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Do you realize how condescending you yourself sound? Log in eye, right?

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            lxxyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Screw Hubbers, I'd like to see this work in the real world too.
            
            It's all up to us, I suppose...

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   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   Sorry, I did not mean to post it all again!

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   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   Well in that light I would agree with you.

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   \Brenda Scullyposted 14 years ago

   I have to agree bullying does go on, on this site, but it also goes unchecked.....

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      Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed, it shouldn't go unchecked and maybe minding our own business unless it's a scurrilous attack especially if the person is an adult.

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         Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         However, besides me I tend to find hubbers bullying other hubbers to be abnoxious and when I click on the hub/thread and read the stuff I cringe. We're all different, I suppose.

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   cindyvineposted 14 years ago

   I think sometimes a hubber makes an un-called for or sarcastic comment on someone's hub, the hubber who's hub it is gets upset, other hubbers who are friends of the hubber also get offended by the comment and that might be when they gang up against the hubber who made the offensive comment in the first place.

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      Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I don't want to rake up a past argument, but I was defending myself and will defend myself as long as it's my right.

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   \Brenda Scullyposted 14 years ago

   I agree with that, but we can all stand up for ourselves at the end of the day, and dont need gang warfare

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   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   I can't think of much that I have seen that I have considered bullying yet, I hope that HubPages staff, eg Maddie, can keep up with proceedings and intervene when needed.

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   Rotemposted 14 years ago

   I never see Bullying here. lucky me.

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      Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Dude, you just joined 5 weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, it's all good, I don't want to be the teacher in a playground, but sometimes a line does get crossed.

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      maidouxixiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      me too
      wish  everybody  have a nice time ~

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   Capable Womanposted 14 years ago

   How in the world can someone "bully" you on a website? I don't get that. To me that sounds like code for "I'm at a loss to intelligently defend my opinions and therefore I feel picked on".
   
   It's just words on a screen...no one can bully you here.

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      countrywomenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Words really do mean something. They are real people reading what we write and if it concerns our long held beliefs/views then it can get under the skin. And then there are some folks who tend to be more sensitive then others.

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         Capable Womanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I agree, but we all have the same vocabulary at our disposal. It's not like someone bigger than you is going to to push you on the ground or something. This is a level playing field where everyone with the ability to form rebuttals or retorts using the same language skills can defend themselves or even attack their would-be "bulliers". Survival of the sharpest, perhaps?

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            Mrvoodooposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Not everyone would choose to sink to the level of those who verbally assault others, being verbally abusive does not make you sharp.

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               Capable Womanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               And I agree with that too...I guess their is a line where "witty repartee" and verbal sparring crosses over into picking on someone. I dunno, I guess because I have dealt with so many REAL as*hol*s in my life it's just hard for me to see anything that happens on a website (where we are all equal) as bullying.

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                  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  And I agree to that. In my experience most of the people online who whine about bullying and stuff just cannot tolerate an existence of opposing opinion and automatically put anyone with such into evil doers group, whatever their favorite label is...

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                  Mrvoodooposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  True you can't be physically bullied here, but I should imagine it's still not very pleasant to have people attack you emotionally, especially in a place or community you go to to spend your leisure time because you feel comfortable there.  probably a little like having a big argument with work colleagues and then knowing the next day you have to go back in and face them again (been there before).

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            countrywomenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well I am not a native English speaker hence my vocabulary may not be as good as others but anyway that is besides the point. Some people do tend to remember "words" that hurt them long after the physical wounds(if they ever had any) get healed. I know some people tend to absorb better than others. I personally tend to get a feel of the person and don't take my liberties(even seemingly harmless jokes) until I am sure that the other person is really cool with it. I know debates is a good way of expanding our horizons but sometimes it tends to degenerate into personal attacks. As long as we disagree agreeably I guess we should be fine(at least unless we really know that person very well like the way I talk with my mom). Sufi, tends to find a common ground of engagement which I really admire a lot. There are all kinds of people in the world, you know. Btw nice meeting you.

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               Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               CW-girl, let me put it this way - all of us have our very own lessons to learn, and one of the lessons presented to such genuinely sensitive people is to get over this sensitivity
               
               All abuse is always in the eyes of the receiving side. Give it some thought. An extreme example for you to illustrate the point: If (theoretically) I start calling you Russian dirty words, and you can't understand this - how in the world can you get offended?

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                  countrywomenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, Misha I have a lot of lessons to learn. I probably may not even learn all the lessons in this one life time. I was just stating my opinion. And I personally can't change myself overnight and I assume there would be others like me too. Maybe I am bit more sensitive then others but then that makes me introspect too whether if someone says this to me whether I would be hurt and accordingly I try to say what may not hurt the other person. Coming to Russian if it was a person with whom I had prior heavy words then I would certainly employ online translation services embedded even in browsers nowadays like babel fish to figure it out. I usually don't tend to take the harsh words at face value but try to gauge the intention (and maybe somebody is having a bad day or mood) hence try not to take it to heart unless it becomes a repetitive pattern (in that case I would prefer to ignore). Anyway it is nice as always to talk to you.

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               Capable Womanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               yes, same here!
               
               And I do understand exactly what you mean in regards to language...when I was in the Dominican Republic, NO ONE spoke any English.
               I think we Americans just assume that most places the  people will have at least rudimentary English language ability, but there it wasn't so...and I have never felt so disabled in my life!
               
               I mean, I just never realized how much I rely on my ability to use language. It was like missing a limb or something. I did have a Spanish dictionary and on many levels enjoyed having to learn so much so quickly, but still...

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         Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Have to agree - some people are more sensitive than others. There are some lovely Hubbers that everyone will leap to the defence of, like you and AEvans, for example.
         
         Some may call it bullying or ganging up, but when somebody starts following my friends around forums, leaving snide remarks and making personal attacks, I am going to react.

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      helenathegreatposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Whoa whoa whoa.  I know this is not on topic, but people have committed suicide because of online bullying.  It's almost always (to my knowledge) been by people who they knew in real life (specifically teens bullying them about specific personal things), but I don't think we should discount that type of thing.

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I would have thought the level of bullying is not that high on hubpages as to pose those sorts of problems.

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            helenathegreatposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You're definitely right that bullying here does not get to that point (probably because it is not personal, since we don't know one another in real life, for the most part), and if it did I'm pretty sure that's where the HubPages team would step in to say enough is enough.  I just wanted to point out that online bullying is nothing to sneeze at.

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               Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               No,but some people here, I've noticed, are out to increase their rating at the expense of others if they're a threat to their ratings. Plus, people here take these so seriously when all it is is blogging.

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      Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      in the world can someone "bully" you on a website? I don't get that. To me that sounds like code for "I'm at a loss to intelligently defend my opinions and therefore I feel picked on".
      
      
      Capable Woman,I don't like getting into fights, arguments are ok, but I really feel fights put me in a position where I have to defend myself and that just so inconvenient. I shouldn't have to defend myself if I've done nothing wrong.

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    Pearldiverposted 14 years ago

    I think right across the world there are types of topics and/or comments that aren't appropriate and most adults understand this. 
    People's sexuality is their own personal choice.
    Politics generally are only open subjects in which everyone seem to be able to stand up to.
    Religion is or should also be a personal choice And one to Not jam down the necks of others. 
    Personal abuse is controlled and most here (if they wish to go down that track) is usually a tongue-in cheek thing remark-wise.
    
    "Dude.. You've only been here 5 weeks!" is pretty aggressive; as you yourself once had only clocked up that much time once.
    
    Overall, I have found that most here respect the opinions of others, but may wind others up to liven the forums.
    
    Personally, I get sick of wanting to contribute... but finding the bulk of the forums are leaning towards fanatical religious topics.. by the same people over & over again.
    
    I have only experienced one example of 'abuse' here and from a regular contributor who could have sobered up before the show.
    
    We have a great community here overall, I for one am very happy to be part of..... There is always the opportunity to turn off the laptop..yeah?

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       Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Dude.. You've only been here 5 weeks!" is pretty aggressive; as you yourself once had only clocked up that much time once.--------->he's only been here five weeks so he hasn't had the opportunity to be abused. I don't see that as aggressive.
       
       Tolerating bullying or living in denial that it exists will only further perpetuate the abuse and make this community unpleasant for some.
       
       It's easy to say "these are only words"-there's a person behind them write them, feeling them, and with their fingers-saying them. No robot wrote them.

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          Capable Womanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, but so what? Obviously you have never really been bullied and/or intimidated by anyone in real life..I'm just assuming, because anything that happens on a website, in the grand scheme of things, isn't sh**.
          
          Someone wrote it, but it's still just words...you have the power of the same vocabulary to respond in any way you see fit (including being just as aggressive as your perceived bullier).

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       Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       This is not a competition about who's been here the longest (sigh), this is about not being here long enough to draw negative attention. Unless, of course, you write blog about all women being hores than, yeah, you'll have that immediate attention.
       
       You have a point about the mind altering substances.
       
       
       I'm not saying that community is bad, I'm saying that I've seen a spike in negativity as of late. Not only towards me, but other hubbers as well.

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    Lissieposted 14 years ago

    Avoid the politics and religion forums- you are unlikely to get a sensible discussion on those topics at the best of times lets face it! In the 2 years Ive been here Ive seen 2 forum contributers banned for being disruptive in the general forums and with the latest one gone I see the forums have returned to normal.
    
    I just say the latest update of the forums which shows all recent threads on the main forum page was an eye-opener to me I hadn't realised that so many people wasted so much time on religion.

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       Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       There actually used to be some fair discussions on the politics and sometimes religion forums--but of late, I'd say most of those who are frequent visitors have noticed a lot of loud mouths with absolutely NO argument.  They simply want to attack for any reason.  A definite dumbing down.
       
       It gets boring.  But I guess they can't screen so much for emotional stability, or whatever it is.  Best practice is to avoid those certain types.

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          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          And sometimes your own behavior is pointed out to you and that hurts your pride and you take it very much to heart. In the end, it's probably not worth getting all that worked up about.

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          Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Have to agree with you and Pete - I can't be arsed anymore. Too many people keen to attack others with nothing to actually add to the conversation.
          
          I have a theory - The more that somebody has to prove their 'toughness,' with personal attacks on faceless strangers, the smaller their wiener

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             nyliramposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             could not agree more with you I for one do not want to be the Girl from Dubai with the small wiener.

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             Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Thanks for the support, Sufi.  It's strange to me how some are very aware of a certain unwritten code of conduct (we know who they are, too)...and others are not.
             
             Looking forward to your debating hub, as I believe interest in writing mine at all has definitely waned.    More photo hubs!

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          Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks for the advice.

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       Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You write what you want. Why don't you give the same freedom you take? Religion is very important to some. But I do not consider myself religious. Just believer. Others do not understand many maters, but it is their fault.

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       Writer Riderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Lol, thanks for the advice, I'll follow it (unless something real interesting catches my eye). Haha, that's funny about the religion topic.

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    Pete Maidaposted 14 years ago

    If someone brings up the subject of sexual preference and states their opinion based on the Bible; I believe they are inviting debate on the subject.  I don't think is bullying unless it gets personal.  If you differ stand up to them and make your case.  If they then engage in a person attack then they are wrong, but if the keep on the issue then it is just a debate.
    
    I have seen too many personal attacks.  Some are invited by statements that are made but some are done to keep up a hubber's persona as a tough person.  I'll either get out of the thread or get in their face based on my mood.

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       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That there, hits the nail right on the head.

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       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Quoting this again...
       
       Hey Pete, can I use that snippet in a hub I've got called "The Unofficial Rules for HubPages"?

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          Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I second the support of Pete's take.  Debate on politics, issues and preferences is expected and appreciated and definitely not bullying.  You are expected to voice your opinion and your case.  You may even grow to respect the other side like this.
          
          "I'll either get out of the thread or get in their face based on my mood."
          
          The attacking of people just for the fun of it (or whatever it is)is another matter.  In my opinion, these people belong in a playroom of their own--at least I don't want to deal with them.  And the way Pete has stated it is actually the way one learns to deal with abusers--bullies or psychotic coworkers, ie.  At that point, you either choose to avoid conflict, or sometimes, you don't back down.  Because getting in their face is the only thing they understand/respect.  I've learned to use this, even though it isn't my natural tendency.  Sometimes you have to.

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    Whitney05posted 14 years ago

    Because of the hubbers starting fights and problems, I've been limiting myself from the forums. Post what and where I need to, but not venture any further. No more socializing because I'm fed up with how others are acting.

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       Dame Scribeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I hear you Whitney I only post to the forums where it's friendly and playful preferably as it is my nature and avoid where there are fights except to say something about bad behavior our forum posts are googleable, aren't they? what do we really want people to see?

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    Dame Scribeposted 14 years ago

    Reactions will vary for everybody. Bullying is akin to abuse and anybody in the helping profession and survivors will notice and can't be hidden but quite agree, choice to be involved is personal and words of caution from others should also be respected.

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    shibashakeposted 14 years ago

    When I first joined HubPages, I probably felt some of that. But as I got to know the community, I just stopped taking what people say too seriously.
    
    For me, I deal with personal attacks in one of three ways:
    1. Ignore it.
    2. Use humor to deflect it.
    3. Call them up on it - e.g. what you said really disrespects the memory of my grandmother - was that what you really meant to say?
    
    It takes 2 to continue an argument. You can choose to stop it anytime you want.

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       lxxyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I love number two...gets people to either love you, or walk away confused.

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    Maddie Ruudposted 14 years ago

    We generally take as much of a hands-off approach as we can, and let the community work out its own kinks and [sometimes heated] disagreements.  However, if there is something going on that actually breaks our terms of service (hate speech, personal attacks, etc), please bring it to my attention by emailing team(at)hubpages(dot)com.

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