My Oh My Oh My

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   gmwilliamsposted 10 years ago

   
   What are the varied ways that organized religion is highly toxic and detrimental to human societies and the further advancements of such societies thereof?   Is religion an outmoded and passe construct and have outlived its purpose?

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   1. 74

      Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      My compliments to you, Grace. You never run out of interesting and challenging topics.
      
      You have slanted your questions, intentionally it appears, to place organized religions in a negative light. A good moderator must always remain neutral.
      
      I not only see religion as having a beneficial place in society but I also believe other social beliefs are far more detrimental to social and scientific progress.
      
      Religions, and their metaphors, have a long history of social contributions, both good and bad. I submit the following as examples of both: Why Religion Matters Even More: The Impact of Religious Practice on Social Stability by Patrick F. Fagan, Ph. D.. I will leave it to the believers and the non-believers to thrash out which is which. {1} However, nothing damages religions more then when they begin to believe that their metaphors are facts.
      
      “Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.” ― Joseph Campbell
      
      On the other hand, a widespread, unshakable belief in both secular and religious worlds is far more lethal to intellectual advancement. It is the notion that all things in the universe must have a beginning and an end.
      
      Society will be slow to advance until religions begin living their metaphors and stop claiming their metaphors are facts; until all men accept that time is an earthly measure while the concept that all things must have a beginning and an end may not apply to the universe.
      
      Here’s to a brighter tomorrow for all.
      
      {1} http://www.heritage.org/research/report … -stability

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         Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you for the first half of your post, though I would submit the theories (in the second half) are not factual b/c you believe they are... pretty much the point you made reversed to you.

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         1. 74

            Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Beth. I thank you for commenting.
            
            I had no idea that there are right or wrong answers to Grace’s questions. In fact, I thought it was obvious that both halves of my post are theories and neither is really factual. As I interpret your post, you embrace the first half as factual because it suits you and you reject the second half as not being factual for the same reason. I can live with that.
            
            I appreciate your sharing your opinions with us, Beth. I have found you to always be uplifting and positive.
            

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               Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you.
               Actually, what I meant was that I appreciated the first half of your post b/c you said that you saw religion in a positive light and said that it had contributed to society.
               
               I felt that the second half did not question, but stated, in fact, that a Christian's beliefs absolutely were metaphors. A "fact" that you said we should accept. I, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of ppl do not believe the Bible to be full of metaphors, but believe it to be factual.
               
               In any event, I still appreciate it when someone goes out on a limb (as you just did) to offer support for a ppl group, even if you don't agree with their beliefs.

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               1. 60

                  Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I too used to believe the bible was factual based upon the fact everyone around me told me it was. But I now know that it is not in its entirety truth. It contains meaphors, opinion, politics, exagerations and some things we know not to be true.

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                     Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I understand that you now think that.

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                  2. 84

                     Paul K Francisposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     When I read the Bible, I keep in mind that it had human authors with, as you say, their opinions and politics. Although it varies with the types of writings, I also see it as creative writing with its metaphors and exaggerations, drama and adventure; the authors being always aware  of their readers or listeners. The role of God becomes more subtle, more powerful, always behind the scenes, for God is the purpose of these inspired writers.

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   2. 53

      EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      We are evolving through a state of intellectual growth in which religion \was part and parcel. Religion tried to answer questions that are now being answered by means of logic, reason and evidence. It has well outlived any usefulness it may have provided and only tends to stunt intellectual growth today.

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      1. 85

         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         +1.000,000,000,000,000,000 in agreement!

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      2. 96

         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Disagree.  Religion in moderation, like everything else in our lives, can be a very good thing for a great many people.  It offers an emotional support that, so far, nothing else we know of can offer.

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         1. 74

            Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            +1

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         2. 53

            EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            If you want to explain that one, feel free, I'm at a loss to follow that.

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            1. 96

               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               A great many people seem to have a huge need for a father figure, watching over them and caring for them.  Helping them to tell right from wrong, and guiding them on the right way to live.
               
               They also seem to have a huge fear of death, spending a lifetime trying to avoid any semblance of death.
               
               Religion offers both to those people, something that nothing else can do.  While morality is always made by man, it is only when said morality is defined as coming from a "higher" power that it becomes useful and true.  And certainly we cannot stop death from knocking at the door, but belief that it won't happen keeps people happy and productive.
               
               So absolutely religion is useful to many.

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               1. 53

                  EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  But, we find that how they behaved back then as depicted in scriptures, what they thought was moral and right is no longer accepted in today's society and often viewed as barbaric. There's plenty of discussion about believers who still behave that way, many of which you yourself are involved. I think this example would seem to contradict some of your own arguments in that regard.
                  
                  
                  
                  So, religion helps people to not grow up and face reality? I don't think the feeding of fairy tales is a constructive way to fight ones fears, quite the contrary, it only enhances the fear.
                  
                  
                  
                  That only serves to perpetuate a false image for morality and removes the burden of self-control and taking responsibility for ones actions, shifting them to third parties. Morality needs to be seen not as something mysterious and revealed, but instead, something reasoned and rationalized so it makes sense to everyone.
                  
                  Christianity, for example, declares that we are all sinners, that we are evil by nature. How is this obvious contradiction useful and true?
                  
                  
                  
                  Yes, ignorance is bliss. But, is that the world in which we want to live?

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2. 0

   Beth37posted 10 years ago

   2 Timothy 3:16
   All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
   
   2 Peter 1:20-21
   Knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
   
   Revelation 22:18-19
   I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
   
   John 17:17
   Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.
   
   Matthew 5:18
   For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
   
   Rom 3:4
   Absolutely not! Let God be proven true, and every human being shown up as a liar, just as it is written: “so that you will be justified in your words and will prevail when you are judged.”
   
   Matthew 5:17-20:
   Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

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