Make it STOP! (god is not real, he won't save you)

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   Virginia Leaposted 10 years ago

   I believe that so many children would grow up smarter and having a better intillecual veiw on the world if society didn't shove religion down their throtes. There are many good religious people who are smart, but if someone doesn't want to believe then it should be their choice. This whole conspiricy then God will save them is just a lie that people tell to give them security in themselves. Some people need an imaginary friend to get them through the day, but forcing someone to have that krutch is not only harmful but also extremely demeaning.
   
   I was raised baptist and for my entire childhood I Was forced to go to church and was never given the right answers to my questions. I was always very opened minded and I loved learning science and the physics of things. The science of "God" was never a subject that made sense to me, it just wasn't something that could be true in my eyes. I feel that religion should not be an obligation, but a choice. Why force someone to believe something that they simply do not? I was also raised not to question it, that the answer is always God, or jesus, but if you really THINK about it (like most christians fail to do)... it just can't be possible. Not just that, all you have to do is read this book that every christian is obsessed with. Obviously they won't reject that anything in that book to be false, so people just need to read it(I mean REALLY read it, not just skim) and you will see how fake it really is, it can't be true.
   
   So recently I have actaully opened my eyes to what I have been apparently believing my whole life and realized it was all a fantasy. Does anyone want to discuss this with me? Feel free to say anything you want.

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      AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I think it's a little hasty to say that religion hinders intelligence. I think ONLY a blind faith that takes an attitude of having NEVER questioned, never considered why one believes what they believe, is not conducive to intellectual growth, simply because it trains us to accept whatever we are told. This is a very specific situation.
      However, it cannot be said of all. Very many religious folk (if I may call them as such) are not that way at all. Many did NOT grow up with religion shoved down their throats; instead, they come to their conclusions based on what they consider to be good reasoning. Whether or not we agree with the outcome of that reasoning is going to differ, of course. But I certainly don't think their intelligence is hindered. In other words, I think it is possible to be religious (or a believer; some don't like the term religious) and still be open-minded and intelligent. You may perceive their reasons to be wanting security, but let's give them some credit. They're all individuals, with individual reasons.
      
      Simply stating how false the Bible is isn't going to get you much of anywhere other than more solid friends and worse enemies on here. So if your purpose is to simply tell Christians to not be so because what they're believing is stupid, it's not going to happen. If your purpose is to legitimately, out of concern, encourage them to not believe what they believe, may I suggest an approach that does not question their competence?

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      Cardisaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      "throats"

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      Max Bucholzposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The beauty of religion is that people can have faith in something that seems absolutely impossible. Yes there is no way to prove the existence of God, but I challenge you to try and disprove His existence. Even some things in science cannot be proven, like the God Particle, we don't know its there, but we know there must be something because without that something, nothing should exist.
      I used to be an atheist, but I realized that there had to be some good reason we exist, and failure to find one within science led me to believe that there must be no point to our lives. But isn't that too bland? It is a bit depressing to think that humans are like an infectious disease that just multiplies and spreads, and then we die and our consciousness just fades out of existence. Without believing in God, there really is nothing. The world is boring, dull, and monotonous. With God, we can at least have a good lifestyle to live by and a good reason to be here.

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         JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         No one has to disprove it.  The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
         
         If someone claims god exists,  they need to provide the proof.   If someone claims no gods exist,  they need To provide proof for that as well.   Me and most atheists make neither.   We lack a belief in a god.   That's not a positive claim.
         
         If you disagree with this very basic principle,  then disprove the existence of unicorns for me,  and I'll take a look at your mythology.

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            The Informistposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            On a side note, the unicorn is Scotland national animal.

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               Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Well, that settles it. It must be real, or it would be called their national mythical creature.

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                  Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Lots of things in Scotland that are mythical are taken as real. (just take a look at the claims of the SNP over independence)

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      God is real and unlimited.  The problem however lies in organized religion which oftentimes have extremely limited views of THE PURE ESSENCE, GOD , or THE ULTIMATE CONSCIOUSNESS.   Religion's main purpose is to seek control and to retard humankind's spiritual development as well as its mental and psychological development.  You are right iin stating that organized religion is a form of severe brainwashing which is often done through fear.   Organized religions have an askewed purview as to how life SHOULD be and anything that is divergently different from the religious view is inherently evil.  Children should not be indoctrinated in any religion as such is the main cause of many emotional, mental, and psychological problems.   To teach about God's essence is FAR and WAY different to a child is way different than indoctrinating and brainwashing a child about religion.   
      
      Of course, a child does not necessarily have to learn about God to be spiritual.  He/she can be imparted ethics and learn about the pure wonder of the world and life without the inference of God or a Supernatural Being.   You are correct that religious indoctrination precludes many children from growing up to their full intellectual potential.  Many religions strongly decry intellectual knowledge as it is against their religious precepts.   Many religious people strongly aver that if something is not in the Bible, then it is WRONG and/or NOT WORTH KNOWING ABOUT.    Religions do keep people intellectually backwards to a certain degree.  In fact, religions retard them to the changes and advancements about modern society.    This really inspires a hub.

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         LuisEGonzalezposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         1+ or + 1 I don't know which one but you get the message...........

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            gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Luis, you have DONE well.   Thanks for the thumbs UP.

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      Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      God (if he exists) doesn't make people stupid, people make people stupid!

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         AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Seems legit.

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      Raine Law Yuenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi, I have just found this thread.  Still quite new to hub pages and finding my way around.  I find your discussion very interesting because I was bought up catholic and attended a convent for a good part of my schooling. I just did'nt get it. The same drill as you say - Never ask questions. There are so many obvious paradoxes in the bible - so maybe that is the reason why we are not encouraged to ask questions.I became a lapsed catholic but plagued with guilt feelings indoctrinated in me as a child. ' You going to hell if you do not attend church every Sunday' or 'you cannot go to heaven if you get divorced'. I had a friend who committed suicide because he just couldn't understand all the inconsistencies and suffering from all the guilt. When my children were born I really wanted to get to the bottom of all this. I had a number of experiences that made me wonder about the existences of a subtle realm. Not the way the organized religion sees it but through the study of metaphysics. I am studying the Eastern and Western of looking at things - The Chinese have always believed that everything is energy. Like electricity - just because you do not see it - does not mean that it does not exist. I have gone into some depth in to this and can only say that I believe that I have finally come to understand how subtle energy works. when applied correctly then the words of Buddha, Jesus, Plato, Socrates, Aristole, more contemporary authors such as Eckhard Tolle, Gary Zucov,, Deepak Chopra - list is endless - They really are all preaching the same thing.   Everything is energy and you are part of that energy.  When you truly understand this and how to harmonize the energies within- you will become the Buddha - You will become as Jesus was.  Jesus and Buddha did not want us to worship them  - They wanted to be an example of how to be.  I write this after a lifetime of wonder and finally taking the plunge - to dare ask questions that organized religion will discourage you from asking. Why? Dare to ask and look for the answers - The correct one will strike a resonance  within you that you will recognize as truth. It is a journey we each need to take on our own. - You will be astounded where it leads you - 'The truth truly will set you free'

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         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         In utter agreement with such a profound statement.  What you have eloquently stated clarifies it all.  The real purpose of Jesus was to teach us to utilize our God awareness and to be more God-like in our awareness and being.  Religions want us to doubt our divinity because it is THEIR ultimate purpose to control us and wanting us to give our authorship and power to them.

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            Raine Law Yuenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for that encouragement. just went onto my hub page to read a comment from a God fearing reader that would have us believe that if we choose to believe otherwise - then we are going to hell! It is this type of person that has prevented me from looking deeper - so I think I'm finally free because  realize there are so many people that see through the veil in these more enlightened times. I feel quite sorry for these people now - That take everything on face value.

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            Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The was the purpose of the OT. Control. Written by male slave owners.

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      Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Life is a journey of discovery. One shouldn't assume all are on the same journey, or view the road just as one does.
      
      I would suggest you remember the point where you now are is simply a mile marker. Don't put too much faith in it. the view will change; assuming you don't close your mind.

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2. 88

   Stacie Lposted 10 years ago

   You may receive more responses in the topical section under the heading of religion

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3. 72

   literalposted 10 years ago

   There is a spiritual dimension to everyone.  Some choose to feed and nurture their spirituality through faith or whatever practice they choose.  And this contributes to a better understanding of self and their world. For me "Jesus rocks!!"

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   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   You lost me at "intillecual"

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That's a GOOD one, psycheskinner.   There will be more like the abovementioned poster coming to this thread and commenting.  God is not necessarily needed for living a good life.  Living a good life is an inward thing.  One can be highly ethical and live a good life based upon principles while one can believe in God and/or religion and lead a very debased life.   Living a good life should be a quality that every intelligent, logical human being desires.
      
      Religion and/or God has nothing to do with it.  In fact, if one believes in organzied religion, his/her life will not be autnentic as he/she let some outside force dictate as to how life SHOULD be lived.  In essence, such a person is OUTER, not INNER  directed as to what is right and wrong.   It is a sign of immaturity to adhere to someone else's or so-called preordained principles as to what is right and wrong.

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   word55posted 10 years ago

   Your comment Max Bucholz was very respectable and appropriate. I used to work with an atheist some years ago. We worked at a home facility for unwanted children. Anyway, He had become a preacher. His concept was similar to yours. I only listened to him. I was glad to have known how unorthodox an atheist thinks. God bless you!

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   Stevennix2001posted 10 years ago

   Wow, and here I thought religious discussions were going to stay in the topical forum thread categories.  O.O

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7. 77

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   It will get moved there in due course.

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8. 59

   The Examiner-1posted 10 years ago

   I notice that Virginia has not replied to anyone yet. In her profile, she has a "thermoeter that always reads 80"; she is a christian; she has "wonderful, God given, writing skills". It goes on in her Hubs.

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      AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      She said she used to be a Christian, in the above post, so that makes sense. She has been a member for 2 years, so I think one can change their views about God within two years. She probably hasn't updated her profile yet. She also posted this only 6 hours ago. Gotta give a person time. Not everyone spends their whole day on hubpages.

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         The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         All I see is the first post saying that she did not get answers in church and recently opened her eyes. Nothing about changing her views about God. To me, church and God are two different things.

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            AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            "All I see is the first post saying that she did not get answers in church and recently opened her eyes. Nothing about changing her views about God. To me, church and God are two different things."
            
            Umm...Her topic title is " Make it STOP (god is not real, he won't save you). That's a definite change in view about God...from being a Christian to saying that.

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               The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I agree on that. From christian to atheist. That is what I call a sudden change - and because the "church" did not give her answers. I still do not call that God. Plus I wait for her to remark on this, not someone else.

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                  AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm sorry. You were not wishing for others to respond to your statement?

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                     The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I was not intending to offend others but she has not spoken for herself. Why did she start this forum if she can not speak on her own?

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                        AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        I feel rather stupid.
                        
                        Upon reading, I realize I completely misinterpreted your comment to be one of being suspicious that she was actually being honest. Or that she was perhaps trolling.
                        
                        Seriously my bad.

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                           The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           That is okay Ashton. I had read her post and scanned over the rest and only saw posts from others, but nothing from her. I noticed that she did the same with a similar question. Annoying.
                           Someone just recently asked, "Why do people ask questions and not answer?"

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                           The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           I just realized, she said that she 'opened' her eyes. If she had opened her eyes then she would have seen God, if she did not want to see Him then she would have CLOSED her eyes to Him.

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                              EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              What strange universe are you referring to when you talk about those kind of working eyes?

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                                 The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 I am simply talking about the common phrase 'closing your eyes to the situation'.

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                                    EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    It is a false analogy and is often used as an excuse from believers who believe others willfully "close their eyes to the situation" when in fact there is nothing in which to close ones eyes.

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                                       The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       Then I yield.

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            gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            To the evolved person, church, religion, and God are mutually exclusive components and entities.  However, to most people, the issue of church, religion, and God are very intertwined.  It is their contention that in order to believe in God, one must belong to a church or a religion.  To them, there isn't one component without the other two components.     
            
            As people become more spiritually attuned, there is a realization that God, Higher Consciousness, or the Ultimate Being is unlimited and separated from limited human constructs and concepts such as church and religious affiliations.  There are some people who strongly aver that since they are not religious, they can't possibly believe in God.  Such is not necessarily the case-to reiterate God is so separate from religion; one day humankind will realize this.

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               AshtonFireflyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Interesting...sounds a little more palatable than a set of religious rules.

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               The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I believe that I have realized this. I see churches and religions as created by humans, but God was not.

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                  Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Isn't that special pleading? How do you know God isn't a man made concept?

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                     The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     If He is, then why can man not show Him?

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                        Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        It's impossible to prove something doesn't exist. I can't prove a unicorn doesn't exist and I certainly can't show you one.
                        
                        I can however examine the bible and show you that it was not written by a just all knowing God and I can do the same with any other holy book. But I can't prove a unicorn doesn't exist, if you think they do exist you'll have to supply evidence.

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                           The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Why are we debating over this?
                           After all, Virginia was the one who began this. Almost at the same time she asked a question about basically the same thing as this. After both she has disappeared - leaving no comments. Never to be heard from again?

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                              JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Because its an open forum,  and participation is at will?

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                                 The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 I see, and understand, what you are saying JM, but I originally posted in here to comment on the post which Virginia left. She has not replied.

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                                    JMcFarlandposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I understand that,  but you seem irritated that other people are responding to you in an open forum,  where anyone can respond to anything,  and no one is obligated to respond if they don't want to.   If you solely want to talk to the OP, email her.   It's a little silly to think that in a forum environment like this other people can't respond as they see fit to anything they'd like.

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                                       The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       I am not irritated by the others JM and I do not want to irritate anyone else here. The only one which you could say 'bothers' me is Virginia for not responding to anyone.
                                       Everyone seems to be making a forum out of her question because she has made no replies there either.

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9. 61

   Christine Oliverposted 10 years ago

   I'm sorry I couldn't even get through the first sentence. Bad grammar makes my blood run cold. I believe that children would grow up smarter if they read a few books, proofread, and paid attention to those cute squiggles that tell them they can't spell.

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      Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Does spelling well equate to intelligence? Asks a dyslexic.

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         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Given that Spellcheck is easy to use and would have fixed most of the errors, it would have been a wise choice to use it to post a pro-intellectual rant.

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            Emile Rposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't want to be critical; but that was exactly what I thought when I read the OP.

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               psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Given OP never follows up, I wonder whether the whole thing is deliberate bait.

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               Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               LOL. I don't remember seeing any errors. Ignorance is bliss. I can't imagine life without spell checker.

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                  Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  What's a thermoeter? I actually have no idea (without spellchecker) how to spell thermometer, but I usually know when something is wrong. The little dotted red line is the first indication.

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            Cardisaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I have to agree with Psycheskinner. I got past the "intillecual" because I thought that was a basic mistake but when I got to "throtes" I lost it. I could not read much more. There are too many mistakes for it to be ignored.

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         The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Rad Man,
         Read her Hubs and tell me that she is dyslexic.

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    The Informistposted 10 years ago

    I do not belong to a religion, however I do believe in god. I understand what your feeling. I was there once as well. In order to find him I had to read a lot of books and watch a lot of videos. I used science to determine whether god existed, and I came to the conclusion he did. Of course, there were a lot of things about religion that I found out were wrong. I encourage you to take your own journey. I believe god exists, does that mean i could be wrong? yes. Am I likely wrong about what kind of god I believe in? Yes. We can only use what knowledge we have at the moment, and we know so little even after tens of thousands of years. Saying that you don't believe in god is like stopping the search for hope. Be agnostic, if anything.

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       EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       That's odd, science does not show gods exists at all, quite the contrary. What science did you use to determine god existed?

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11. 61

    Prodioposted 10 years ago

    It would really be very interesting to listen to your opening statement during a near death experience.

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