What's wrong with a good war?

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   kirstenblogposted 14 years ago

   I saw this comment on another thread and felt that it was to big a question to respond to there. I read it as a bit of a flippant comment in my mind (as you do when reading stuff online) and felt a strong reaction, that no war is a good war because war is built on destruction the worst of which is the destruction of life. That said there have been necessary wars, the only option was for even greater destruction. When is a war a good one? How can it ever be good when it results in pain and death for everyone involved from small children to soldiers?

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      prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi kirsten, it is my opinion that war is never good, it is destruction of lives, properties and everything
      
      Happy New Year dear,

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      War is always good for America and her war machine.  Our biggest industry is the military industrial complex and it is one of the biggest domestic industries we have.
      
      If this weren't so then we would not be bouncing from one war to the next.
      
      If you look at it from the human loss and destruction of property then it would be a bad thing.  Capitalism lives for it and we all believe in capitalism don't we?

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         Mitch Rappposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yep, its doing wonders for our economy!

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            rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Who said anything about the economy? I know several military contractors who are hiring and having their workforce expand at steady rates.
            
            The idea that the private sector should profit from it is like believing the trickle down affect might have some merit.
            
            Wars are always fought over aggression and money. The rich perpetrate it and the poor fight it.

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               Diskobolosposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Whaz so civil 'bout war anyway
               
               http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9VhD4SccSE

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      MikeNVposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      When you look at Wars it is not uncommon to see the same people financing both sides of the conflict.
      
      War is about money.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That was a sarcastic remark made to disrupt the direction the thread was going and hopefully incite some thought into the conversation.

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   livelongerposted 14 years ago

   If it's the comment that I think it is, it was posted as a deliberate provocation for attention.
   
   War is sometimes necessary, but it's never "good."

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      kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I expect you know just the post I responded to. I doubt this was the intended type of attention tho

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   Shadesbreathposted 14 years ago

   War is horrific.  HOwever, sometimes it happens anyway. So, I would say a "good" war is one that is won quickly and decisively, with the least amount of death, but exactly as much as is required to crush the fight out of the enemy so that it does not malinger in shadowy corners  of society, crawling out from time to time to blow up mothers and their babies at coffee houses.

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   sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

   A good war is one that you do not have to fight twice or more. A good war is one that doesn't cost a country decades of baby sitting money down the road.
   
   If wars were fought in Old Test. style, the middle east would have been calm since the 6 day war.

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      PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So, are you willing to do the fighting yourself, Old Test. style?

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         kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah those things got pretty bloody! Leave me outa it if you please.

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   Citrus000posted 14 years ago

   Go participate in one and find out.

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   Citrus000posted 14 years ago

   (not you personally kristen  )

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7. 67

   goldenpathposted 14 years ago

   We need to be careful in being too haste in judging "war" as a whole.  Yes, there have been many necessary wars.  Yes, more often than not there are hidden agendas to many of our modern wars.  However, there is the basic fight for the greater good.  This is the fight that will ultimately win, we hope.  That may mean the correct side loses many battles but that side must stay focused to the principles of the end result of the fight that they deem necessary and good for the population.  Whether it be freedom, liberty or liberation from tyranny these types of objectives are worth fighting for even if there are other agendas built in.  Everyone will eventually have there just reward but for the basic warrior in the field of battle that stays true to his convictions they shall be the true victors of any battle.

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      Hmrjmr1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      As a 'lucky' Old Soldier, I concur good job.

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         goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks! I served in Desert Storm '91.  I gained new trust and love for the native people over there.  A stranger pulled me to safety when I was wounded.  Those people are worth extending the freedoms they deserve.
         
         I will not debate taxes and other policies.  Yes, governments are corrupt.  I support the basic human premise for the war.

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   Hunting Videosposted 14 years ago

   Can anyone ever remember in history when we haven't had wars. I don't think there has been a time of total peace. It can't even image what the world would be like if there was no more wars.
   
   I would love to see that day and experience what it would be like.

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9. 64

   Ralph Deedsposted 14 years ago

   Here are some facts about our little adventure in Afghanistan:
   
   Projected annual casualty count:  5,700 by the end of this year; 300-500 per month by the spring of 2010 (Per General Barry McCaffery)
   
   Projected Cost:  $9 billion/month, $108 billion/year (per Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments)
   
   Cost per American soldier per year--$1 million
   
   Bin Laden--It's been seven years since we've had any reliable intelligence on his whereabouts (Source inter-agency analysis report to President Obama.

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      goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Not sure of the point but here are some stats from history:
      1) 50 million dead between 1917 & 1918 due to disease and war primarily.  30 military & 20 pandemic disease.
      2) 70 million total took up arms.
      We, as a people, are no strangers to the plight of man but those wars were just.  We cannot complain about the stats of war as it will only serve to dull our senses.  These things are necessary.

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         Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         World War II was the last "necessary" war. It may serve to awaken our senses.

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            goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            So long as there are people oppressed by their leaders and basic human rights and liberties being witheld than wars are necessary.  We ought not just sit idly by.  Each day we make an accounting of the things we allow in our world.  It's that silent tapestry written in the human heart and mind.  I am not racist nor do I discriminate but when I see a population of fellow human beings living in fear and degradation we have the duty and responsibility to aid those people even to the removing of their government.

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               Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               How big a tax increase are you willing to support? How about bringing back the draft? Senator Obey has proposed a surtax to support the war in Afghanistan? It'll be interesting to see how much support it gets.

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               barrancaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The palestinians for instance?

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                  blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  well, barranca, looks like they're avoiding your hot button question.

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                     Hmrjmr1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Not avoiding it. Just don't have the time to do it justice as there are some similarities to other current conflict (Hezbollah and Hamas are essentially off shoots of the Bathists) Israel continues their fight for their survival against these two organizations that have hijacked the Palestinian cause and prevented a peaceful solution time after time. (Not that Israel couldn't do more to resolve this)

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                        blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        perhaps, since israel is in such a "survival" mode, we could ship them a few more tax dollars.

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                           sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Happy New Year Bluedog!

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                           Hmrjmr1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           We ship them plenty along with Egypt, and Jordan. I would remind you that the stated goal of Hamas and Hezbollah is the destruction of Israel. That is why Israel refuses to deal with them. The Arab states that have recognized them (Israel)either by treaty (the two mentioned) or implicitly (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Yemen and others) have done better for their people than the Palestinians or Lebanese, or Syrians.

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                              blue dogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              sounds like some people don't like israel.  or its sponsor state.
                              
                              let's start with yemen.  a country of 22 million people, of which almost half live in poverty, eeking out an existence on less than $2/day.  this poverty is for a variety of reasons including the fact that what little oil yemen has is far, very far, beyond peak production.  likewise contributing to this poverty is the fact that yemen refused to get sucked into papabush's gulf war which then led an embarrassed saudi arabia to kick out 850,000 yemeni workers.  imagine the effect on our economy if we were to bring every soldier and military contractor home tomorrow.  our economy, currently in freefall, would enjoy the special effects of gravity with lead balls around its feet.
                              
                              with a undp ranking of 153 out of 177 countries, it's doubtful that yemen is feeling any of the "better" you refer to.  throw in one more fact, that being that cia assets and special ops forces are already well established in yemen, and with growing noise from the mic, it's even more doubtful that the yemeni people are feeling "better."
                              
                              from plastic boxcutters to underwear bombs, america is one grand carnival. 
                              
                              saudi arabia better watch its butt.  yemen.  what a perfect battleground for the american empire to get crushed.

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                                 Hmrjmr1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Your "facts" about Yemen bear out my point. During the Gulf War they were on the wrong side of the battle, and paid. Now recognizing the threat that AQ is they are getting help. Seems a shame they didn't realize that sooner.

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      livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      To think we are still fighting an enemy is a misconception. We're fighting an ideology, TERROR.  It's like the War on Drugs, a war that can never be won.  Don't get me wrong, we can win plenty of battles but would the war on terrorists end if we were to catch Bin Laden? I don't think so. The war is for the masses to be distracted from the bigger prize and it's not OIL. Oil is just a limited resource, there's an unlimited resource up for grabs, the Human Resource.

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      livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sobering statistics. They bear updating/repeating often.

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    dfunzyposted 14 years ago

    US attack on Iraq was a criminal act. The US war in Afghanistan is a stupid act. Our foe is Bin Laden and his followers, not the people of Afghanistan, not Muslims. So far, the US and its allies have been playing by Bin Laden's book, have been doing everything to strengthen his hand. One would think that Bin Laden is the architect of American war policy. Bin Laden tells his followers that the war is on Islam and Islamic peoples and our bombs and rockets, blowing up so many innocent civilians, give legs to his propaganda. He says that America has sent a Crusader army to destroy Islam. We send a large Christian army into a Muslim land, to do what? To save a country by destroying it? Stupid.
     
    Al Qaeda is bad news for us, for the world, and especially for Muslims. Bin Laden has been very clear what his plans are for Muslims. They are not very nice. He would deny human rights and education to women. He would return Muslim countries to the 7th century. He would out law liberty, individual expression, and, I kid you not, music, and television! Look at the places that fell under  Al Qaeda's control and see what kind of governace he promises the Muslim world.
    
    It is Muslims who will defeat Bin Laden. Only they can take away his strength, and prove a lie to his propaganda.
    
    And yes, our war in Afghanistan is not a good war. It is a stupid war.

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       Hmrjmr1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       would differ on a couple of accounts here. First the Iraq war was a necessary act, the facts are Sadam was shooting his WMD delivery systems (missiles) at our troops in Kuwait from 17 March thru 21 March when we crossed the border. Was the war poorly run or ill timed, yep. But even if we had held off in 2003 it would have eventually been inevitable.
       The War in Afghanistan is another example of poor management but again, you have focused here on only half the problem. The Taliban government in Afghanistan was our enemy simply for the fact that they harbored AQ. They had a chance to turn them over and declined. The entire premise of both Sadam and the Taliban are essentially aligned with the same type of goals and methods used by the Nazis. It has been well documented on the part of Sadam that Hilter was his example of governance, and the Arab world in general subscribed and aligned with Nazism in WWII (Fatwah issued by Mufti of Jerusalem 1939). That is why it is also a fools errand to differentiate the Taliban of Pakistan, Afghanistan, or the Bathists in Syria, Iraq, or the current regime in Iran. They are essentially fighting for the same thing in different cloaks and banners.
       They are also a cunning and cruel enemy that will be difficult to beat and you are right about the rest of the Arab world needing to rise up, they are in some places (Iran) and but it is going to be a long and costly war. Ultimately it will be worth every penny and every drop of blood if we can bring it to a successful conclusion. Though I fear that is generations away.

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       sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Wow! I'm not sure what you meant could you clarify a bit?

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    There is no such thing as good or bad, there is only what you like or dislike.
    
    Happy New Year!

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    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    Personally I feel that OBL has been suppressed for several years whether dead or otherwise.

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    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    Never a good thing, but most definately a neccessary thing at times.

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    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    War solves several problems in a short period. Better end the problem and live in peace after "settling the problems".

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