Between a Rock and Two Stupid Kids

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   JeanMeriamposted 14 years ago

   Original OP is gone. It was about my kids cigarette problem. I was made very aware though of the type of people I might be opening my children's lives up to on this forum so I deleted it except to say they were grounded in case there is any confusion.
   
   cheryl they said they agree
   Jerami they said haha what money

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      starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Wel , first off, I don't think any kid is stupid, I feel a better choice of words would be in order, maybe they are doing something stupid, or maybe they think its smart because they are simply doing what Dad does. Fighting them onit, grounding them from things, yelling, stomping and fussing , lecturing etc..... will do nothing but make them want to do it more. And they will. Teenage rebellion , the more ya tell em not to the more they are gonna do it.  I would say step back , take a breath, re-evaluate the situation, they cant be too awful addicted yet, think about it , they are young kids, try not to over react, give it a rest and then , maybe google some parenting forums on how to best approach the situation, take your time its not like they are gonna get totally addicted, get cancer and die in the few weeks you take for this and in the long run , you may end up with non smokers, but keep this up and you'll end up with two smokers , that I promise

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         JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I realise my kids aren't stupid starme77. I'm not a literalist.
         
         And you think kids should steal and not be disciplined?
         
         And no I don't think I'll be looking around internet forums for any parenting advice. I'll probably just discuss it with the doctor and see what he has to say about addiction and what to do about it because I know I was highly addicted by 13.
         
         Where on earth did you get any impression on yelling, stomping or fussing or lecturing? It certainly wasn't from my post.

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            starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            guess I just figured on the yelling , fussing part , kind of read between the lines a bit - over reaction with teens is not a good thing, its just not,  if you feel its best to go to the doc , then by all means, go.  Just offering some practical advice, I mean you did allready come to this forum for help, so parenting forums on the subject seemed practical to me , doctors with kids these days all seem to have the same answer addhd , dope em up ... when actually the adhd thing is like a one in a million thing -  and the word stupid when refrencing others, well thats just a pet peave of mine , I think it sounds bad

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               JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Not sure how you could have read that between the lines at all. I was concerned about my children ruining their health and how to go about helping them to quit, especially since one was just hospitalised and had her oxygen drop significantly.
               
               Advice is only practical if it makes sense with what the person is talking about. But thank you for the hostility and assumptions.Accusing people you don't know of treating their kids like crap based on them saying their children are grounded is interesting to say the least. You might want to take a look at your own over-reactions. Attacking other people on delusions and assumptions is actually one of my pet peeves. Ironic isn't it?
               
               I really am not sure what the adhd has to do with this. I take it you don't like doctors. I'm pretty sure he won't be prescribing adhd medications for smoking, but might be able to discuss the health implications.
               
               Anyway this has turned into a very strange conversation and I need to go to sleep.

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                  starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  no not really nuff said , I  never said I kept my kids in a violent home, so now your making assumtions, I kept em safe and still am ... you.... on the other hand ,  work with child protection and you are keeping your kids in the house with your husband smoking , allowing them to breath in second hand smoke and your then getting mad at them for copying their father s smoking plus calling them stupid and your thinking thats o.k ? sorry, but I damned sure wouldn't allow you to try to protect my children , calling them stupid is considered a form of mental abuse ya know  - you came to the forum for advice , then thought parenting forums on advice for the situation wasn't practical , what the hell? now ...nuff said

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                     JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     my husband smokes in the house??? And I edited earlier starme. It was assumptive.
                     
                     But now you have gone from accusing me of screaming yelling etc, to my husband and the second hand smoke. I hope this stops soon as you don't know me at all.
                     
                     And I was looking for discussion with rational people, not someone who is going to fly off the handle, make up stuff that is going on in the houses of someone thousand of miles away from her. This is absolutely like nothing I have ever seen.
                     And starme, I don't call my kids stupid. It was a joking title to a post. My kids have seen it and they don't think I'm the problem here.

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                        starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        If you read what I wrote you would see I did apologize for the assumption , but from reading your last paragraph in your reply above me I am kind of noticing that your not a real practical person, not looking for advice, most likley full of yourself and just want some attention so , I'm done with this conversation ,  its a total waste of time

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                           JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Well thank you for the attention and practicality. And I agree it's a waste of time talking to people who make stuff up that they want to think is the truth. Next time you have accusations of anything please provide some proof.

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                              starme77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              proof was in the posts you deleted - my kids dont get called stupid

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                                 JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 No starme. Only the title has that word at all. It was not in the post anywhere as I'm sure the others who read it and answered can attest to. If you would like I could have hubpages staff perhaps recall the OP.
                                 
                                 And I would really appreciate it if you would stop the harassment and slander. You must have better things to do with your life. Thank you.

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   _cheryl_posted 14 years ago

   Yes, they grow up so quickly don't they? My oldest son's 14. No issues with smoking, but the lying became an issue. We've learned to ground him, with the explanation of why and that it's simply the consequence to HIS actions. It get old, and believe me, the frustrations of the teenage mindset can be enough to just give up sometimes, but that's where you have to hold your ground and show them that they took action, so now they have to pay the consequence. My son was grounded for quite a while due to grades. I got burned out, as well as he was I'm sure, of the fact that there was no change or effort on his part to change his circumstance. I gave him the incentive recently to go on a week to week basis, and he's done a 360 degree turn around. He could've done this a month or so ago, but it's all in their mindset that they need to realize that it's their responsibility to change their behavior if they want to change their outcome. And if he screws up, it's back to where he started. I think the hardest thing is to stay firm with your discipline, otherwise they'll never take it seriously and start to push their limits even more. Don't forget the power of prayer! We do what all that we possibly can and trust that God will do what we can't....Good luck Jean!

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      JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks cheryl. We have 5 teens, One seems to never do anything wrong and the rest are worst than the 3 year old sometimes. 14-16 does seem to be the age for lying. They think they're adults and do what they want, but then try to hide it to get out of trouble like little kids. Maddening.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   Grounding them "till I say diffrent" is a good Idea. Gives yourself wiggle room.
      I wouldn't think that they are adicted yet???
      Only advice I'd give is to try to show them the ecconomic side of the issue. A pack a day habbit will cost them a lot of COOL stuff that they could have spent their money on.
      That and the dirty vacume bag concept. When the bag eventually gets full ??  cain't change it out.
      
      Good Luck with this and everything else that comes up when raising kids.

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      JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Jerami. I keep pushing my husband to set a time, but maybe leaving it up in the air is better. Or even to say "That depends on you."
      
      We really just thought the one would learn after going to the hospital. Especially since she is not the one who claims to be addicted.

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   saltposted 14 years ago

   you might like my hub on ways to quit smoking... help them rather than be angry. I started smoking when I was six and my parents tried to make me smoke as punishment, when Id already decided to give up..., which led to me smoking right through primary school. Even just smoking cigarettes can change the friendships you choose and all sorts of things, so if you cope through this one, both you and your lovely kids will
   
   1. bond
   2. find a skill by giving up.. as it is a skill to retrain the brain away from any addiction.
   3. create honesty, as it does sometimes take alot to change an addictive habit, if you can help them though, it can really be an experience.
   
   Also, imagine water energy around them.
   
   etc..
   http://hubpages.com/hub/naturalwaystohelpquitsmoking
   
   my hub.

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      JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you salt. I will check out your hub in the morning. I'm not angry at them. I did it it at that age too. That's what worries me. And you are right, it does even change who you become friends with. Smokers become friends with the other smokers who are outside smoking with them, for better or worse.

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   Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

   Since they're 14-16 they're still pretty young, as far as teens go.  I don't know if I'd be right or wrong; but if it were my teens I'd be more upset about the stealing from their own father.  (You're right, though, kids do stupid things - and the smoking thing is a pretty common one, no matter how "bad" it is.)
   
   I think I'd tell my kids that I understood that kids are likely to try smoking because kids do "dumb" things and think it's cool.  I'd tell them that I know some kids smoke here or there but don't get addicted.  Others become addicted forever.  I'd point out that even if I understood that this is something a lot of kids try here and there, it wasn't something I'd ever approve of; and if one of them says she's addicted I'd tell her I was going to aim to help her quit "with the new routine".
   
   Having addressed the smoking issue, I'd then tell them I was more concerned about the stealing from their own father thing, and because of that they weren't going out anywhere but school.  They'd be doing every bit of homework at home each day/evening, and other than that nobody was going out.  I may even consider letting them go to a special event here or there, and maybe even transport them to and from (it would depend); but the general routine would be "no outs" on school days at first.  Limited "outs" on Saturdays in time.  Summer may be another matter, but it's still awhile until then
   
   They're young enough that it's not that unreasonable (I don't think) to have the above kind of grounding.  If they really want to smoke and have the chance to get to school or occasionally be out, chances are they'll find a way; but they won't 7-day-a-week opportunity, which, by itself, might help keep the nicotine to a minimum.  I'd tell them that being grounded for proving un-trustworthy enough to steal from their father is not "retarded", but I'd go more with the approach, "I don't want you to make the mistake of getting/staying addicted forever; and even though I know a lot of kids try smoking, it's my job to do what I can to get you to 18 without your being addicted to nicotine."
   
   I guess my thinking is that I'd want them to know that even if smoking is stupid, it's what a lot of young people try at one time or another.  I'd want them to know that the stealing thing was "the biggie" ; and that their choice to steal was what got them grounded. 
   
   I don't know....   I don't know if I'd be right or not, but that's a bad age; and sometimes I think the way to keep kids from going too far "off track" is to put the brakes on for awhile.  If nothing else, it lets them know they aren't going get away with stealing from their father. (I'd also lay on the, "How on Earth could you EVER steal from one of the people who love you most in this whole world?"  That's almost more the issue, to me, than even the stealing thing.)
   
   (It's a hard age, a challenge, and a worry, that's for sure. I've been through it with three of them and know how it can be.  I guess that's why I thought I'd take a stab at thinking about what I'd do.)  There are never any guarantees they won't do something at 18, but sometimes if you fend it off while you still have the right to have a say, it can fend some things off.     )

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      JeanMeriamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Lisa. It is about the trust. And I did everything wrong as a teen and don't want to see them do the same. They're very bright girls and have a lot of potential. It's amazing what smoking can lead kids to do.
      
      And yes the 7 day a week thing was too much for them. I agree completely, a bit of freedom built back up at time. Hopefully we can break this habit now.

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         Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Jean, hopefully.      What I found hardest about having kids that age (besides the age, itself) was that you have no real way to know for sure if all will work out.  I never had any doubts about how to handle things when they were little, but once they get older it's just trickier (and the stuff they do isn't as "cute"  ).

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   IzzyMposted 14 years ago

   I started smoking at 11 and my parents did everything to try and stop me, including grounding, taking away pocket money etc, as well as severe lectures on the dangers of smoking, but it didn't work. 40 odd years later I am still puffing away having spent at least half my lifetime's earnings on cigarettes!
   It's a crazy crazy habit and one I discouraged my own children from starting, but start they did - again about ages 14 -16, though one has since managed to give up.
   I do not think there is anything at all you can do about it. It's an addiction and some people are more prone than others to it.
   What I did with mine in the end was to say to them "OK, I know you are smoking and I can't stop you - only you can decide to give up, but you aren't doing it in front of me."
   This naturally curbed their habit. I smoked only 5 -10 a day or less until I was old and mature enough to risk smoking in front of my parents. After that my intake increased expotentially, from 5/10 to 20/30.
   I've also written a hub about stopping smoking. I know how to do it. I've done it loads of times LOL
   But where children or teens are concerned, the best advice to give them is to never light that first cigarette. However, once its done they are drawn in and it's too late. Then they become just like us - wanting to stop and failing time after time.

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   wordscribe41posted 14 years ago

   I feel for you, JeanMeriam.  I have kids approaching the teen years (oldest is 10 1/2) so I'm already worried.  I think Lisa offered some great advice, as she always does.  I'm not there yet, so I'm not sure I can help.  Just wanted to offer you my sympathy...  I'm NOT looking forward to all of this.  Ugh.  Hang in there.

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   StormRyderposted 14 years ago

   Ahhh..kids .......Thanks for reminding me of another reason why I don't want any!!

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   Rafiniposted 14 years ago

   I have a suggestion:
   
   Even though I smoke, I realized I didn't want my kids to smoke when they were old enough so...I always told them "You're too smart to start smoking"  and "You don't want to smoke, you hate the smell, remember?"
   
   My daughter is now 23, she did try cigarettes but does not smoke now.

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