R.I.P. Mitt Romney

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Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago
Robert Shrum in the Daily Beast:

"The campaign has come down to a race between Mitt’s media and Mitt’s mistakes—and the mistakes are winning...

"In a last-ditch attempt to crack Ohio and Michigan, Romney has now resorted to advertising an outright lie—that Chrysler’s Jeep division will soon move its jobs from the United States to China. The media has debunked the fiction, which was borrowed from the fantasy precincts of the rightwing blogs. The Detroit press called it “false” in a news story— not just on the editorial page. TV stations have scorned the Romney spot—at times, pre-emptively refuting it just before it airs. When Bozo the Trump tweeted the lie, a Chrysler Vice President swiftly tweeted back: “You are full of shit.” The Obama response ad was easy to make, entirely believable—and of course, showed a grimly grinning Romney letting Detroit go bankrupt. Maybe he’s created a new watchword and a warning for Presidential politics: Would that mine opponent would write an op-ed.

"Now fast forward nearly four years to last summer in a second, probably fateful Mitt mistake. It fits with the first one—and reinforces the narrative of an out-of-touch, plutocratic candidate who doesn’t care about working families or the middle class. Romney let the Obama campaign pummel and define him as the profiteering-job destroyer from Bain. Eighteen years after this attack shattered his Senate bid against Ted Kennedy, you would think Mitt had an answer other than nostrums about “free-enterprise.” The fact that he didn’t offer one suggests that there isn’t a convincing one. When he was asked on CBS, he simply brushed the question aside: the President is “grasping at any straw he can find.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … _afternoon
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  logic,commonsenseposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, Shrum is a real icon for intelligence, fairness, and honesty. What a joke!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Just curious, why not tell us why you say that?
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  Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You could go on vacation for a week and when you get back, you will not get an answer to that question.
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If Mitt Romney loses this race for the Presidency -- the blame is precisely placed on the mesmerized media of CNN, CNBC, and all three networks - it will be on them. I've made a point of watching all the coverage, and it is so pathetically and sadly and mericilessly clear that the liberal media simply wants to win their guy again -- and to hell with the future of the USA, and to hell with complete coverage, fair coverage, equal coverage, and darn sure don't mention Benghazi. They will regret that in the years to come - but regrets don't change anything and no one in the USA will take any pleasure in that - we will all be sharing the pain and regret - and we will all be trying to find a way out of the darkness in those future years - together.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes the "liberal media" you do realize both psychology and economics says that is impossible right?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes and then there is reality and they are left as left gets.
  I had a friend who went to broadcasting school and the head instructor told him point blank conservatism and broadcasting were like oil and water.
  The suckers want their hero back at all costs.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  To be fair, conservatives have almost free reign on talk radio.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, and liberals have been there and consistently failed.
  Why is that Cody?
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  In what world or what doctrine are you told that false reality? Oh yeah, the predominantly liberal one........
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Like the Daily Kos who once described the fetus as a "parasite".
  Nope nothing leftist there.....
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  *sigh* no it's just science, psychology and simple logic tells us that people like listening to and reading stuff that they agree with hence most MSNBC and Koos viewers/readers are leftists and most FOX and Breitbart viewers/readers are right wing. Now economics tell us that demand creates supply, as in if there is a market for something and people will buy it someone will make it to get that money, that's how business works, since there are roughly the same number of Democrats and Republicans around the most basic rules of economics make it unavoidable that they will have roughly equal coverage to fully cover the market, media is business after all.
  
  I know explaining this is a waste of time but hey those are the simple facts.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wonderful idea but it does not work that way.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Good answer Actually that is exactly how it works, those are fundamental universal laws of economics and human behavior. Which is why you have no actual reasoned answer to the argument.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Josak,
  Most of the press in this country are run by liberals. That's just a known fact.
  Some of them even admit it freely.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yup a lot of them are and a lot of them are run by conservatives that number has to be roughly equal in viewership and readership simple as that.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN Sister!
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  AMEN to you as well.........
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hey girlies, do some research on the owners of FOX, read about Rupert Murdock and Prince al-Wadid...
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah.............
  Talk to me about George Soros Tammy. What do you know about him hmmmm?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't even watch Fox Tammy.
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Barefootfae, I am glad you don't, and I do not watch MSNBC...you and I may disagree politically, but we have had some good conversations....For every Soros, there is a Koch, so let's not get lost to the loonies now, right
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Right. I want you to read my stories. you will like.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I will Hey, I ordered some of those barefoot sandals, can't wait till they get here they look like little pearls!
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Cool! They aren't hard to make out of leather and stuff. Takes about five minutes then you can add your own bling and stuff on them.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That is a great idea, I will have to try that, thanks
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Please don't equate Soros with the Koch brothers.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Why not Ralph. I have a forum where he is trying to screw veterans through his think tank.
  Why shouldn't we look at him?
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So obviously you don't understand how a think tank works.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Go back to that other forum and read the article.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I did Soros doesn't tell people in his think tank what to do (that would defeat the point of a think tank) it's a group of people with some expertise testing ideas against each other to work out things that could work, that is all.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I guess what I mean , is they feel the same way about him, as I do the brothers...common ground wherever we can find it feels good honestly...too much hate in the forums sometimes, gives me crummies in my tummy...
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I don't want hate but I try to let people know when I see a double standard.
  Sometimes I have to get a little snarky but I actually don't hate anyone here.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I know, your not the hater...some just take things a little far...and I agree that it is hard for any of us to look at our choice candidates etc, through the eyes of the other side...I am glad it's almost over, it has been exciting, exhausting, and gut wrenching...I just want to know who will it be already
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  
  Here, this is what it is.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Now that's funny ROFLMAO
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Basically both sides have sugar daddies and then sit back and try to call the other evil.
  Heard a woman the other day being interviewed. Used to be a Dem operative and said she got tired of watching them call each other evil during the day and go out for dinner together at night.
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You are sadly mistaken if you think it is A OK for you embrace Soros and not think he does not have a higher global goal in mind that only benefits himself and his heirs and partners...that is silly. If Soros was mistakenly perceived, like Obama, as having pristine intentions, he would be all over the liberal media ............ and he most certainly is not. Wake up.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Good luck with that. They walk right away from Soros as soon as you mention him. That's when you get Koch thrown at you . Notice that?
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  K and Barefootfae, They all call eachother evil and then go play golf..ALL...I joined an organization called the House Fire Project, a fellow hubber Jim(themanwithnopants) He is conservative, but agrees they all play dirty pool and has started this organization inorder to fight corruption...I think he has a good idea...I mean look at all the corruption we can find just sitting here at the computers, beating eachother up while they play golf....hmmmm, we should instead, find ways to charge the wrong doers, and lets go play golf, or tag, or have lunch
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Something.
  Good luck cause lot's of these folks like the side of the fence they are on and think their folks have wings and halos.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Don't I know it, exhausting(sigh), but I believe there are stiil good "people," at the top even, but money and power run the real show...I think lobbying should be illegal...if Americans really came together instead of letting the "powers that be" divide us, then we could turn this around...I have been thinking of this Charlie Daniels song all day, do you know it: And they never did think that it ever would happen again, in America, they never did think that we would ever get together again, but we damn sure proved, yea they're walking real proud and they're talking real loud again, in America, they never did think that it ever would happen again...." LOL, been in my head all day...
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Great song. I love Charlie Daniels, saw him in concert once
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Don't it just make you want march up that hill flags in hand, LOL, all of us...the 99%
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, there has been no POTUS who has played so much golf, or spent the same amount of down time jogging, or dribbling, or racing, or hunting........we need someone interested in doing their damn job.
  
  Not someone who watches baseball to stay on top of his squares while our Ambassador is killed...........
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Obama has taken less time off and leisure days then is average for a president much fewer than Bush.
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  KFlippinposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  In your dreams! Dang, if your sources tell you that, you ought to see if you can get a Gig with CNN, or at least NBC ...........
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Let me guess fact check is also the horrible bias machine too right?
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I sincerely hope you don't believe that....
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Mighty Momposted 11 years ago
You would think that refusing to talk to the media -- which Romney has done, especially in the last few days -- would incur their wrath and they would retaliate.
Haven't seen any Mitt backlash to speak of.
Hmmm.
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is more then just a few days since he wont speak to the media. Fits to a tee the elevator story from when he was a Governor and he would rope it off so no one could ride with him.
  At this point it all comes down to Mitts Mistakes.
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  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The media and the public have been unbelievably forgiving on Mitt's Mistakes (formerly gaffes, now upgraded to mistakes).
  He's been like Teflon.
  
  Oh -- Robert Shrum is on TV right now explaining the RIP Mitt article.
  
  I think going up against Chrysler and GM with phony scare ads is what FINALLY outed him as a desperate liar.
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William F. Torpeyposted 11 years ago
Mitt doesn't need to make "mistakes" to lose this election. His positions on the issues are all wrong in the first place, and when he turns around and takes an opposite position, as usual, he's all wrong again. How can anyone (and that includes Republicans) vote for Mitt who cares about the future of our country?
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  Shyron E Shenkoposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  What positions??? He does not have one until after/if he is elected. The only way he can win is if the voting machines are hacked (Hart Intercivic)
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habeeposted 11 years ago
Mitt...we hardly knew ye.
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  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Habee,
  Truest words of the entire campaign!
  Bravo!!
  
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  habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you'd like it, MM.
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Barefootfaeposted 11 years ago
My son likes sports and likes to watch football and basketball. He really gets in a twist when some team that was ranked above the other loses. He thinks those rankings should be set in stone. I always have to say:"Son, that's why they play the games."

So i think before we lay Romney to rest we need to see what happens when the election actually occurs.
Not to mention you wouldn't want to post stuff like this which might discourage someone from voting now would you?????????????
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American Viewposted 11 years ago
The election is two days and we shall see what happens. I wonder though, no matter who wins, when some things come to light, will there be regret? I wonder how some will feel when that first Jeep runs out the door in China.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zax-iuCX … re=related
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "I wonder how some will feel when that first Jeep runs out the door in China."
  
  That will be a win-win for Chinese customers, Chrysler, and Chrysler engineers in the U.S.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Maddow has an interesting way in reporting, perhaps she should listen before speaking. Please note the clip from Romney saying" he read Jeep is THINKING of moving their operations to China". That is a fact, 100 percent true.They are going to open the closed plant in China and are doing a "feasibility study" on moving the entire Jeep production line overseas.
  
  Romney did not say it was a fact they were moving, that is how things get twisted and spun around.
  
  Of course all we have to due is tune into the American View show as we will have special guest COO Mike Manley of Fiat to address these rumors. In a pre-interview, he confirmed the Bloomberg story.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  AV, I believe the plants in China will also expand, Romney twists the truth however, as per the statement of the CEO...But I will catch that show
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Opps, LOL Sorry about that, I was posting that for someone else but I guess I hit the wrong button. Oh well. Have a great day.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "They are going to open the closed plant in China and are doing a "feasibility study" on moving the entire Jeep production line overseas. "
  
  From what I've read that's a bald-faced lie. Where do you get that stuff?
  How do we turn into the American View show?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that depends on what you read and who wrote it.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I've read both Detroit newspapers and the NY Times, all of which say that Romney's ads are false (the first) and highly misleading (the second). A Chrysler VP tweeted that Donald Trump was full of shit when he was echoing the Romney ad about moving Jeep production to China. A GM spokesman also spoke out about what Romney's been saying in Ohio. Chrysler is EXPANDING Jeep production in Ohio and Michigan and hiring a bunch of people. That is FACT. Chrysler is considering building Jeeps in China FOR THE CHINA MARKET.
  
  From Bloomberg:
  
  "Chrysler Group LLC Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne reiterated that Jeep sport-utility vehicle production will stay in the U.S. after presidential candidate Mitt Romney suggested output may move to China.
  
  “Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China,” Marchionne wrote today in a letter to Auburn Hills, Michigan-based Chrysler’s employees. “Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand. It is inaccurate to suggest anything different.”
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Detroit and NY huh? Well.....ok then.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Time for you to take your meds Ralph. Now others here may let you be a bully and call them liars, I will not tolerate it, especially with the stuff you spin. Earlier you said:
  
  "That will be a win-win for Chinese customers, Chrysler, and Chrysler engineers in the U.S."
  
  That sounds like you agreed that Jeep is going to open its closed factory in China. But the issue is not CHina and you continue to ignore that. Fiat believes it will sell 500,000 Jeeps in Europe, an exploding market for them. Add in the 300,000 per year in CHina, Problem is the US line cannot keep up with that demand.
  
  Seems chinaautoweb.com agrees with the story. And please note the date on the article, the decision was made long before election time. The announcement was made May 10,2010. Notice the article names the guy you say is denying it.
  
  'In a recent interview, John Kett, vice president and CEO of Chrysler’s Asia-Pacific operations, confirmed this, echoing Fiat-Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne’s words that Fiat is to have a production capacity of 300,00 units a year in China within five years through its joint venture with GAC (Guangzhou Automobile Group Co.).
  
  http://chinaautoweb.com/2010/05/fiat-to … -to-china/
  
  So how could Romney be wrong about something announced in 2010? I mean he only read about it in 2012. I would guess those looking to cover up and discredit Romney are doing so because he found out before election time. Oh that tangled web
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The Romney's Auto Mess is just one more nail in his coffin.
  
  so what did I miss....what did Ralph spin?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  He would get dizzy if he tried to walk a straight line.
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  thats a whole lot of intelligence that you just added, thank you for enlightening me.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, Pal. I don't recall calling anybody a liar other than Mitt Romney. But if the shoe fits...
  Romney's first lying ad said Chrysler was moving jeep production from Ohio to China. When that didn't sell he came out with another misleading ad implying that Chrysler's plan to build jeeps in China would somehow jeopardize Chrysler jobs in Ohio. This is simply not true. Chrysler is expanding Jeep production in the U.S. and hiring plenty of new workers in Ohio and Michigan. Please explain why you think producing Jeeps in China for the Chinese market would be a negative for Ohio. That's simply not true.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Once more, you miss the point and the shoe does not fit here.
  
  You continue to mislead, did you not listen to the clip provided earlier which started this whole controversy? Romney never said Jeep was definitely moving all operations to China, he said they are THINKING about doing it and he is right, they are thinking about it So you and he hardcore left continue to spin it as Romney said it as a fact, sorry he did not.
  
  And even after you were shown a link from 2 years ago when they said they are doing it, you still do not believe it. How is the weather in the land of OZ today?
  
  From Chrysler:
  
  "Chrysler Group LLC will announce next week it will add more than 1,600 production workers at an Illinois assembly plant signaling the start of a hiring blitz that promises to add thousands of workers to the auto maker's plants over the next three years." The next 3 years, a lot can happen in 3 years. WHere did Obama say unemployment would be by now?
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  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So you are now calling the head of Fiat/Chrysler a liar, inferring he is in a coverup about his own company's expansion plans?
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  MM,
  
  I have not called anyone anything. I am mearly pointing out what they are saying, then some seem to be walking it back. Why? Is it they are upset it came out so close to the election? I do not know, but notice the link I provided for you to read. The date of the story is May 2010, over 2 years ago stating Fiats intentions with Jeep, 2 YEARS AGO. The same people saying the same thing.
  
  Also, I was tired of the story, so I got it from the horses mouth. COO Mike Manley will be on my show Monday or Friday for an interview. In my pre interview, he confirmed it. I cannot wait for the interview to put this story to bed.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  AV, If anything has to do with the election, then it would be easy to see, right? If Obama is President, they will benefit more keeping jobs in the US...if Romneys wins, they may move the whole thing,lol...So, as of now, what I see is a company who is planning to grow both markets, nothing wrong with that, and yes Mitt lied, he made it sound, on purpose, that more jobs were leaving for China, as he convenietly omits that jobs were growing here, and ommission is a lie...I know, I have raised many teenagers
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  MM,
  
  I am sorry if I am a stickler on this. Your son told you his friend John was thinking of going to the local bar and get toasted. John then told you he was not going to the bar. Does that mean your son lied to you? No he did not, he told the truth because John was thinking of going. All Romney said was he read in an article Fiat was thinking, and that is true, they are. The article did not say anything about Jeep expanding in the US, so if it was not in the article for him to read is that an omission? If it was in the Bloomberg article then yes I would agree with you he omitted it, but...
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Not according to the CEO of Chrysler as confirmed by every Michigan auto writer.
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  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  AV,
  Yes. Chrysler is planning to produce Jeeps in China. No one disputes that possibility. Maybe even that certainty. Good for Chrysler. Profitable for the first time since 2006. Seeing the European market in peril, but wide open opportunities in the Asia market.
  Why not tap into that? It's all good.
  But...that is not the point.
  Nor was it the point of Romney's comments at rallies, nor the thrust of his ad.
  Let's call a spade a spade here.
  His intent was to discredit the auto bailout and somehow make himself look like the real champion of the US auto industry.
  But it backfired.
  
  Once more, with feeling.
  Here is the official response from US auto industry execs:
  And for the record, once again, the fact-checking findings on Mitt's deceptive remarks/ad:
  
  "For the third time in a week, GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney and the auto industry are at loggerheads, this time over a Romney radio ad implying that GM and Chrysler are expanding production in China at the cost of American jobs.
  
  The ad claimed that "Under President Obama, GM cut 15,000 American jobs, but they are planning to double the number of cars built in China, which means 15,000 more jobs for China."
  
  The accusation drew a dismissive response from a GM spokesman, who explained, "We've clearly entered some parallel universe during these last few days. No amount of campaign politics at its cynical worst will diminish our record of creating jobs in the U.S. and repatriating profits back to this country."
  The ad further claimed that "Chrysler plans to start making Jeeps in, you guessed it, China."
  
  Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne refuted Romney's comments in an email sent yesterday to Chrysler employees: "Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China," Marchionne wrote, touting Chrysler's recent production expansions in America.
  
  It was not the first time Romney claimed that Chrysler was shifting production to China, nor was it the first time Chrysler rebuked Romney's charge.
  
  When Romney told an Ohio audience last week that "Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China," Chrysler colorfully waved away the charge.
  
  "It is a leap that would be difficult even for professional circus acrobats," wrote Chrysler spokesman Gualberto Ranieri in a blog post. "Let's set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China."
  
  Chrysler's wry dismissal did not stop Romney from repeating the claim in an ad warning that "Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy and sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job."
  
  FactCheck.org called Romney's claims "flat wrong," explaining, "It's misleading to suggest that Chrysler's decision to expand into China will cost U.S. jobs -- especially after the company has said it would have no impact on its U.S. operations."
  
  The fact-checking website cited a report from Bloomberg that Chrysler was mulling "adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."
  
  Romney's incentive to tarnish the credibility of President Obama's auto bailout is clear - his electoral fortunes largely depend on his showing in midwestern manufacturing states like Ohio and Michigan with a large auto industry presence. If he can convince voters there that the auto bailout did more harm than good, he will stand to benefit.
  
  But that doesn't mean the automakers have to play along.
  
  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-5 … dustry-ad/
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  " In my pre interview, he confirmed it. "
  
  What did he confirm? What is "it?"
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ralph
  
  Are you having memory issues or are you just so into spinning? You even said you looked forward to hearing it and I cannot wait for it either. Good Grief .
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever Chrysler may or may not have been thinking two years ago about China according to your version of what Mr. Manley said, Chrysler, according to Chrysler's Chairma, Marchionne, has no plans to move any Jeep production from the U.S. to China or anywhere else. Contrary to Romney's lies, Chrysler is EXPANDING jeep production in Ohio and Michigan. That is a fact! Chrysler may put additional Jeep production in China for the Chinese market. Why is that so hard for you to accept. Admit your and Mittster's mistake.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting,
  
  So let me get this straight, you will ignore recent articles, ignore one from 2 years ago from a China based web site that does nothing but report on the auto industry, quoting the same people now and 2 years ago, and you choose to ignore them.
  
  For the moment, forget who said what when. It is great for Fiat that Jeep is picked up sales in China, but you miss the rest. It is not just China, it is all of Asia. Europe as well is exploding, in fact they expect to sell 500,000 Jeeps in Europe alone. In fact combined they will far out sell the amount of Jeeps sold in America. The existing plants cannot handle the output.
  
  Fiat Re opens the line in China to meet the demand as you say "that is good" Let's say they make 50,000 Jeeps. Who made them? was it US auto workers? Was it the Chinese citizens? SO if the Jeep was not built in America by US auto workers would you not agree that is a lost US job, a job shipped overseas? Now I am not saying Fiat is going to lay off any US auto workers, If fact I will say even if Jeep does move to China, Fiat will not lay off any auto workers (this is just a hypothetical, I am not saying they are doing it or not doing it.) So if Jeep gets built overseas and despite no US job losses, would you not agree that is a Lost US job? If we are not building it, it is not a US job right?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong! W
  hatever Jeep does in China will not result in a single lost job in the U.S. China doesn't allow imports of Jeeps or Chevys from the U.S. to China. How hard is that for you to get through your head? If Chrysler expands in China it will strengthen the company and add employment in its engineering functions in the United States. As I pointed out previously, GM or Chrysler production in China is IN ADDITION to their production, NOT A DEDUCTION FROM from their production in the United States. This discussion is getting boring and repetitive.
  
  Note: I'm not saying that in the future layoffs of Chrysler employees in the U.S. won't happen. The automobile business is highly competitive. The future of Chrysler's U.S. employees will depend on the quality and price and features of their products and the state of the U.S. economy. Periodic layoffs have always been a feature of automobile production in the United States.
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  cascolyposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  yep - that's the slimy way the right wing works -- they misquote or misstate something, so that they can claim they're technically correct, meanwhile making headlines and tossing red meat to the limbaugh dittos. an HONEST and RESPONSIBLE candidate, one with integrity would research these things they 'read' or 'heard' BEFORE throwing them out
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wavegirl22posted 11 years ago
"Everyone paying attention to the election called him on it. Chrysler Group LLC has set the record straight, stating it has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America."

"Mitt Romney won't come clean on Chrysler, won't come clean on his Chinese investments and threatened the restructuring of GM for his own profit. That is the picture of a me-first hedge-fund investor, not someone who has the judgment or character to be President of the United States."

You can read the entire article from USA Today here-->
Romney's Auto Mess Shows He Is Not Ready
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habeeposted 11 years ago
The October 22, 21012 Bloomberg article is confusing to me. It begins with:

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers' operations in the region."

It states that Mike Manley said they're reviewing the opportunities of moving part of or the entire Jeep portfolio to China. Later in the article, it says that Jeep won't be shifting output from North America to China.

What am I missing? Manley seems to be contradicting himself. ????????

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-2 … limbs.html
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Note: The article you linked from Bloomberg is dated October 22. It may be the erroneus one that caused the misunderstanding in the first place. Since then both Chrysler and GM have sharply criticized Romney's ads on China as incorrect and misleading. I'll try to find a more recent Bloomberg article which might clear the matter up. GM is one of the leading car makers in China. This strengthens its US operations. Profits in China helped make up for losses in Europe and contributed to the recent positive earnings report.
  
  Here is a Bloomberg article from October 31:
  
  "Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney told a crowd of supporters at an Oct. 25 campaign event that Chrysler Group LLC was considering moving Jeep production to China, citing an unidentified news story. Chief Executive Officer Sergio Marchionne said yesterday in a message to employees that Jeep sport-utility vehicle output will stay in the U.S., reiterating the company’s statements in an Oct. 25 blog post.
  
  "Romney has aired ads in the closely contested state of Ohio that are critical of Chrysler and General Motors Co. (GM) for hiring workers in China, the world’s largest auto market.
  
  "Bloomberg News reported Oct. 22 that Chrysler’s majority owner Fiat SpA (F) planned to resume Jeep output in China and may eventually make all of the brand’s models there. The report stated that potential production in China would be in addition to output at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio, where Chrysler is adding shifts and hiring more workers.
  
  "To contact the reporter on this story: Craig Trudell in Southfield, Michigan at ctrudell1@bloomberg.net; "
  
  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-3 … ments.html
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  habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ralph, I don't know anything about auto makers. Is SpA Fiat just a division of Jeep?
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Fiat is the majority owner of Chrysler Corporation.
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  Shyron E Shenkoposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The article said that “what is being considered” by Chrysler “is adding production in China -- not shutting down American Jeep factories” in the U.S.
  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-3 … point.html
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
I just read that Romney has been charged with violating federal ethics laws for hiding money in his wife's blind trust. Has anyone heard anything about this?

United Automobile Workers (UAW) and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) have just charged Romney with hiding between 15.3 to 11.5 million dollars from the auto industry bailout in his wife Anne’s “blind” trust to conceal the gain and reduce taxes on it.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  What? OMG, Researching now!
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  http://thenevadaview.com/3896/crew-uaw- … o-bailout/ just found this, is it legite?
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Holy Mother of Pearl! Now everyone can see who he is!
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  This is from the United Auto Workers official website. I don't see too much online yet, just a handful of websites. http://www.uaw.org/articles/unions-good … se-big-aut
  
  http://www.opednews.com/articles/UAW-Fi … 2-673.html
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wow rebekahELLE, Well now we understand his unwillingness to show his taxes for those years...good sleuthing! You should start a forum on this!
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I found it on my FB feed and did some further searching. I'd like to know more, but good God, how can people not see through this man and his wife?? He's so corrupt, but those who support him won't see it.
  They will simply say it's a last ditch Democratic ploy to win the election.
  
  What bothers me from that article is that he made sure his wife didn't have a federally approved blind trust in order to hide millions in profits.
  
  According to ethics law expert Dan Curry who drafted the ethics complaint, Ann Romney does not have a federally-approved blind trust. An approved “blind” trust may not be used to hide a major investment which could be affected by Romney if he were to be elected President.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sadly, you are right...these people protect a man they do not know, I have shown proof of his flip flops, lies, short temper, arrogance, etc. We are suppose to be in a time of transparency but he will not release anything else on his taxes, we know about Bain, his REAL governoring record, and still they would fight for him just because they HATE Obama, they HATE him out of prejudice and bigotry, pure and simple...I have asked many, why do you not like Obama...they have no answer, it's racism, pure and simple, and that is so sad in today's world we have not come far, we are in retrograde...I pray the grass roots real people of this nation can pull it off, I pray!
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  See I feel about that like you eel about the Valerie Jarrett thing. It looks to me like a last minute ploy to get him whether there is anything behind it or not. I think it may be a little late.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I don't hate Obama Tammy I just think he is wrong and get a real bad feeling about people who are his advisers.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Barefootfae, this is an actual credible source however, Do you truly believe, that Obama has so much "mind control," going on that he has the CEO's of companies coming out to call Romney on lies he is telling about them and their own companies, does Obama have all of these activist groups in his pocket? Think now, if he truly had that much control, would this election be so close? If Obama had all the big boys with the big toys best interest at heart then this would have been a done deal a long time ago...This story above, this is a credible source, this is the REAL Mitt Romney, is this the man you want deciding your rights?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No I think someone has filed some charges at the last minute in hopes of killing the Romney race.
  May or may not be anything to it.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I guess we will wait and see what happens, but this isn't somebody overhearing a conversation, this is ethics committies activists groups, the United Auto Workers...this is big, if it is true we need to know before Tues.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it's true that Delphi salaried non-union retirees got screwed by somebody out of part of their pensions. I have a number of friends who are quite unhappy. I think the matter is in litigation.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  rebekahELLE, you were right girl, here comes the spin
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  movingoutposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  @tammybarnette and rebekahELLE, Some people just don't like the truth! Romney has worked hard and long to hide his returns. Maybe now even the Republicans can see why! But I'm sure they will cry fowl! lmao Romney has lied and flip flopped on every position. How anyone could vote for him is beyond me. Does the Hate for the POTUS so deeply seeded they're wearing blinders?
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, that's to be expected. Tammy, feel free to start a forum thread about this if you want. I would, but I won't be around too much over the next few days to moderate it. {helping with getting Florida to the polls} I don't want to keep posting on Ralph's thread about a different (although somewhat closely related) topic. If people want to know, they'll continue the reading on their own, but the topic does deserve a thread. If you read nothing else, at least take time to read this article. It is how the 1% operate... at the taxpayer's expense.
  http://www.thenation.com/article/170644 … t-bonanza#
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Good for you girl! The grass roots sure needs you
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's fun to help out in whatever way we can. Thanks!
  The above link that I posted is worth reading. It's really very creepy in one sense. These people are ruthless. It was originally published on Oct. 17 and has 49k FB likes and over 4600 Tweets, so it's getting out there through social media...
  It's late, I'm going to bed.
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Barefootfaeposted 11 years ago
So filing charges means he did it right? Trial or no?
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American Viewposted 11 years ago
Well there sure is not a lot of anything out there but speculation. Perhaps the Romney story is to head off this story, a kind of tit for tat thing between the parties

"Turner, R-Centerville and Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, held a press conference to denounce a decision made during the auto bailout that resulted in salaried Delphi employees seeing their pensions slashed while union Delphi employees were made whole.
The duo was flanked by three salaried Delphi retirees who saw their pensions reduced by anywhere from 30 to 40 percent, though some salaried employees saw their pensions reduced by 70 percent. The 2009 decision affected pensions of about 700 Dayton-area Delphi retirees.
Obama “owes Delphi salaried retirees answers,” Turner said."

http://dispatchpolitics.dispatch.com/co … obama.html

If I am understanding this correctly, the UAW is trying to see if the blind trust which no one can see what the investments are, making hug profits for the Romneys' on auto bailout money, specifically Delphi.

"The groups believe that Romney’s undisclosed stock holdings create serious conflicts of interest. They point to the auto loans as a key example. The Nation recently reported that the Romney family personally profited by at least $15.3 million from the auto loans of 2009."

So the UAW is saying that "undisclosed stocks(stocks they cannot see either) made the Romney's $15 million. Well if they are undisclosed, how do you know they were auto stocks? Maybe they are McDonald's, or Macy's.

Time will tell, it could be true, or maybe its just a story to change the subject from Jeep and the Delphi news conference the Republicans held. Who knows. I will be glad when the election is over.
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
This is from the above link that tammy posted:
In 2009, Ann Romney partnered with her husband’s key donor, billionaire Paul Singer, who secretly bought a controlling interest in Delphi Auto , the former GM auto parts division. Singer’s hedge fund, Elliott Management, threatened to cut off GM’s supply of steering columns unless GM and the government’s TARP auto bailout fund provided Delphi with huge payments. While the US treasury complained this was “extortion,” the hedge funds received, ultimately, $12.9 billion in taxpayer subsidies.

As a result, the shares Singer and Romney bought for just 67 cents are today worth over $30, a 4,000% gain. Singer’s hedge fund made a profit of $1.27 billion and the Romney’s tens of millions.

The UAW complaint calls for Romney to reveal exactly how much he made off Delphi — and continues to make. The Singer syndicate, once in control of Delphi, eliminated every single UAW job –25,000– and moved almost all auto parts production to Mexico and China where Delphi now employs 25,000 auto parts workers

Here is a link from that article. http://www.thenation.com/article/170644 … t-bonanza#
There are more articles on this link if anyone cares to read.
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  habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If Romney broke the law, he needs to be charged before Tuesday.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he does Habee
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movingoutposted 11 years ago
I agree, if there was a wrong doing here, he needs to be charged! I can't imagine anyone wanting a president with this cloud hanging over his head!
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  Petra Vlahposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Can't wait to see how this one plays out
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.opednews.com/articles/UAW-Fi … 2-673.html More are coming online now...
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Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago
Oddsmakers give Obama 85% chance of beating Romney!!

NATE SILVER: Obama's Odds Of Winning Have Now Hit 85%
Henry Blodget | Nov. 4, 2012, 7:45 AM | 2,394 | 11

With two days to go, Obama's odds of winning re-election have reached their highest level ever, according to New York Times polling guru Nate Silver.

Betting markets Intrade and Betfair also show the President maintaining a solid lead, though with much less conviction.

These assessments come despite the continued release of some polls that look good for Romney. The difference between the national polls and the betting markets, some polling experts say, is that the national polls focus on the popular vote, whereas Silver's odds focus on state-by-state polls aimed at determining the winner of the electoral college and, with it, the Presidency. Nate Silver's model also averages hundreds of polls.

Nate Silver is so confident in his polling model that he publicly offered to bet MSNBC host Joe Scarborough who would win the election. Scarborough, who maintains that the election is a "toss-up," has not accepted the challenge.

Let's go to the data...

First, Nate Silver now gives Obama 85% chance of reelection. That's up from a post-first-debate low of ~60% three weeks ago, and it's higher than the 80% previous all-time peak Obama hit just before the first debate.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nate-sil … z2BGNLmz92

http://www.businessinsider.com/nate-sil … -2012-10-z
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ralph you pay far too much heed to the NY Times Editorial Board.
  There is a nation beyond the coasts.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nate Silver doesn't dance to the tune of the NYTimes editorial board. He is a master statistician who made his name in the baseball industry. Your criticism of the NYTimes could be likened to an ant crawling up an elephant's leg intent on rape.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Propaganda designed to make Republicans feel defeated before voting or make them feel like why bother and not vote. A good ploy that both sides use. There are articles out there saying the same thing about Romney. Just hold on folks, it is going to be a close on and I will not be surprised if we go to bed not knowing who the winner is.
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Propaganda?
  Silver calls his blog 538, because that's the total number of Electoral College votes; a presidential candidate has to get at least 270 Electoral Votes to win.In the 2008 election, Silver called 49 out of 50 states right.
  Silver is transparent about the way his model works. The model could be wrong, but Silver has always been clear about the way it works. Those who slam Silver clearly just don't like what his data is showing--that Romney is very likely to lose.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I could care less about popular vote as well, anyone who follows politics knows that Romney will win more states, But Obama will take the big ones like New York and California.
  
  As I said, this election comes down to Ohio, he who wins Ohio, wins the election
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Obama has a 5 to 6 point lead in Ohio, from what I've been reading...
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You will get all sorts of numbers all across the board. People need to go out and vote and forget the ignorant polls.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's not propaganda. Nate Silver is one of the masters of statistical analysis. Here's a sliver from a review of his recently published book "The Signal and the Noise."
  
  And yet, while “The Signal and the Noise” doesn’t chronicle Silver’s rise, it marks an important milestone in his ascent. For that reason, it could turn out to be one of the more momentous books of the decade. Journalism is in a strange place these days. Cable and the Internet crippled the old media establishment; political polarization dealt it a death blow. In the meantime, no new establishment has risen up to take its place. What we have is a growing sense of intellectual nihilism. The right-wing media speak only to true believers. Liberal journalists are often more fact-conscious but equally partisan, while mainstream outlets have a rapidly dwindling audience. Few media institutions command widespread credibility.
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/books … s&_r=0
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "Liberal journalists are often more fact-conscious but equally partisan"
  
  LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO, LMAO,
  
  Thanks Ralph, I have not laughed that hard in years.
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American Viewposted 11 years ago
I am not agreeing or disagreeing whether Romney did this with his stocks or not. I know the election is Ohio, he who wins Ohio wins this election. To that end, I would nt be surprised at anything the Unions will toss out there to keep Romney out of office.

I am a little suspicious of the UAW claims though, not to mention the timing of it. . Oh it could just be the New Yorker in me, always suspicious of people's motives.

Is this the October surprise? And if so, that means it was known a long time ago, why not disclose it then?

The first interesting quote that keeps hitting me that is in each of the many articles I read on this so far is "he did not do anything illegal" Well if not, what are you complaining about?

Next is the claim of knowing Romney made 15 million off of Mrs Romney's blind trust for an investment in Delphi. Well I am not saying they were invested or not, but Blind Trust means blind, other than the trustee no one knows what the investments are.

[i["A blind trust is a trust in which the fiduciaries, namely the trustees or those who have been given power of attorney, have full discretion over the assets, and the trust beneficiaries have no knowledge of the holdings of the trust and no right to intervene in their handling. Blind trusts are generally used when a settlor (sometimes called a trustor or donor) wishes to keep the beneficiary unaware of the specific assets in the trust, such as to avoid conflict of interest between the beneficiary and the investments.[/i]

If the UAW knows for a fact Romney made $15 million fro Delphi stock, means several financial and privacy Federal laws had to be broken by the trustee and by the UAW. A trustee overseeing the Romney blind trust would make an incredible amount of money and would not jepordize such a job and could not be bribed enough to disclose those private files. If the UAW files this complaint, I fully agree there should be an FBI investigation into the UAW and the trustee.

Lastly, according to the article the UAW is making this complaint under the ethics in Government Act. The problem here is at this time Romney is not a public servant, he holds no positio, he is a private citizen, even back when this has allegedly taken place. So even if Romeny really did this, the complaint will go nowhere or it will just be a political game for a short time.

"Title I Requires men and women in the public service sector to fill out financial disclosure forms which include the sources and amounts of income, gifts, reimbursements, the identity and approximate value of property held and liabilities owed, transactions in property, commodities, and securities, and certain financial interests of a spouse or dependent.

The report must then be filed to the appropriate state officer of his or her state, and the committee charged with issues of ethics in his or her respective house of Congress. The President, Vice President, counsel appointed to the United States Department of Justice, and nominees to positions that require United States Senate confirmation must file with the Director of the Office of Government Ethics.

People that must file reports include, but are not limited to: the President, Vice President, employees and officers of the Executive Branch, Postmaster General, the Deputy Postmaster General, each Governor of the Board of Governors of the U.S. Postal Service and each officer or employee of the United States Postal Service or Postal Regulatory Commission.

Disclosure must also be made available to the public shortly after they are submitted."

It does not include those seeking office, perhaps they should amend it to include those running for office.
It sure would end BS like this being in the election process, keep the candidates on message, LOL yea like that really happens.

One last thing, the article I read in Huffington post is 3 days old. So this story is out there at least 3 days and not one Peep from CNN, or MSNBC? Hell MSNBC reports if Romney passes gas the wrong way. They and Media Matters who writes for them, would be all over this by now.
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
It should include those running for top governmental positions.

The content of the UAW complaint letter is here. http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation … ut-profits

quote from article
"While some officials use blind trusts to satisfy these disclosure requirements, Mitt Romney himself has said '[T]he blind trust is an age-old ruse, if you will. Which is to say you can always tell a blind trust what it can and cannot do,' " the UAW letter continued. "In any event, press reports indicate that Romney has not even attempted to meet the requirements for a federal blind trust with respect to his substantial equity holdings. The only way for this law to be enforced in a meaningful way is for your Office to act promptly to demand that candidate Romney disclose his stock holdings, or divest them if disclosure is not feasible."

Romney's campaign declined to comment on the UAW complaint, pointing instead to a press conference supporters of the GOP nominee held about an unrelated controversy over Delphi pensions

which actually is related..
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Do we then suppose he chose too divest...I mean he refused to disclose further tax returns, so this is not shocking news really, but if he chooses to divest, does that mean the issue is squashed?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You know I don't see this story on any news sites. Like at all.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.opednews.com/articles/UAW-Fi … 2-673.html I put this one on last night, but nothing in the main stream, odd...
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  That says "oped" right? Tammy how is that any different than when I post something you guys poo-poo as a "blog"?
  ABC?
  NBC?
  CBS?
  CNN?
  FOX?
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I have always found the op-ed to lean more conservative, When I found the article, there was a Romney/Ryan add at the top of the page..so I don't know why I have not seen this in mainstream unless the matter was privately settled...
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Tammy,
  
  It is odd nothing is in the MSM. they are too quite on this, especially MSNBC. I did find something of interest in the article you linked which makes me start to think something is a little hinkey here.
  
  "In 2009, Ann Romney partnered with her husband's key donor, billionaire Paul Singer, who secretly bought a controlling interest in Delphi Auto, the former GM auto parts division. Singer's hedge fund, Elliott Management, threatened to cut off GM's supply of steering columns unless GM and the government's TARP auto bail-out fund provided Delphi with huge payments. While the US treasury complained this was "extortion," the hedge funds received, ultimately, $12.9 billion in taxpayer subsidies."
  
  If 4 Years ago the US Treasury thought there was extortion going on, where is the FBI or Department of Justice probe? If the story was true they could have taken Romney out of the race real early
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Does this mean it was not found to be "extortion," but rather, protected yet clearly taken advantage of loopholes, yet perfectly legal? I do not pretend to know, but I would like to see some facts...where to look?
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, we need some facts. Like I said it makes no sense. Where is an investigation if there was extortion? Hell congress and the DOJ will have hearing and investigate if you use the wrong box of Kleenex these days. Why release th story or make these allegations now if they knew for 4 years? I do not know, it is baffling these days.
  
  That is why we need to push that bill I wrote for Housefire Project , the Political Securities Act. It addresses all these issues before anyone can run for office on any level.
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's out there. The complaint was just made on Thursday in a letter. I saw it in the Toledo Blade, Huffington Post, numerous web sites. Obviously the story is being hid or diverted to his Jeep remarks. We'll hear more when/if action is taken from the U.S. Office of Government Ethics.
  
  So close to the day of election, it will not get the attention it deserves.
  From MSNBC on Nov 1 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45755822/ns … /#49651463
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  A press that actively hates Romney is "hiding" it! Right.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I am not saying anyone is hiding anything, that would be the same as others who say the press is hiding the libya story, right? I am just wondering what happened, as they said they would be filing charges unless he disclosed or divested...? So, that was my original question, if he divest does that squash the matter?
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
I saw an interview on The Ed Show with Bob King. I inserted the link in my previous post. There is quite a bit out there, but you have to search.
It won't be on MSM right now.
I'm off ~ enjoy the day hubbers.
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ah MSNBC...the liberal version of Fox!
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  do you know who Bob King is?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No but I know who Ed is and he is a frequently misogynistic creature.
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  do you just reply when you feel like it or do you try to keep up with the thread?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I have had a busy day.
  I feel the same way about MSNBC as you do Fox so don't expect me to get excited over a guest on the Ed Show.
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Did you watch the interview? Bob King is a lawyer and president of UAW/United Auto Workers. Why not isten to what he has to say.
  
  It was nice to see UAW retweeted two of my tweets which are getting retweets. [Try to say that one fast. ]
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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wavegirl22posted 11 years ago
BREAKING: Mitt Romney Charged With Violating Federal Ethics Law!

As of November 1, Mitt Romney is one of the first presidential candidates ever to be charged with violating federal ethics law.

United Automobile Workers (UAW) and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) have just charged Romney with hiding between 15.3 to 11.5 million dollars from the auto industry bailout in his wife Anne’s “blind” trust to conceal the gain and reduce taxes on it.

"The American people have a right to know about Gov. Romney’s potential conflicts of interest, such as the profits his family made from the auto rescue,” the groups said in a statement. “It’s time for Gov. Romney to disclose or divest.”

It’s time to expose just how unscrupulous Romney is about making his fortune off the misfortunes of others. Please, support UAW and CREW by calling on Romney to reveal exactly how much he made and continues to make off the auto bailout!

PETITION TO MITT ROMNEY: It’s time to come clean. We demand to know how much money you hid in your wife’s supposed blind trust, and how much you continue to make thanks to the gutting of the auto industry.

Sign this Petition Here
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks
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habeeposted 11 years ago
We've been out this afternoon. Has Romney been forced to drop out of the race? If this stuff is true, why did they sit on it for 4 years and wait until now??
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Stay tuned. I doubt that he'll be forced to drop out. So far the main stream media has not published a word about the UAW's charge which has been out there for a couple of days.
  
  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/0 … g-Benghazi
  
  "Troufishing's diary on Romney and Delphi tops the Rec list today, based on a piece on Wednesday making a startling charge about Romney enriching himself via the auto bailout.
  
  "An ethics charge has been filed by the UAW and others against Romney for failure to disclose his interest in Delphi, a company that greatly profited from the auto-bailout.
  
  "And yet, I searched for "Delphi" at the NY Times site and found nothing about this story, which has been out there since Wednesday. But they did transcribe without comment Paul Ryan's accusation that President Obama supposedly allowed the bailout to bypass nonunion workers at Delphi. (The Times omitted the word "supposedly".)
  
  "OK, well, that's just the Times. Let's google Delphi, Romney and UAW. Ah, some results! Let's see, WaPo? No. CNN? No. ABC, CBS, NBC? No, No, No. Just the usual bunch of "crazy" lefties suspects - Greg Palast, Huff Post, Kos.
  
  "OK, Let's try Benghazi.
  
  "Well, what do you know? The WaPo has the esteemed William Bennett, gravely opining: "Either there was serious malfeasance on the part of this administration or a knowing cover up with shifting stories and blame."
  
  "The increasingly hacky Jake Tapper has a piece: The Benghazi Drip, Drip, Drip. That sounds objective to me!
  
  "Hey Jake -- you've got a candidate enriching himself at the time he was condemning the auto bailout. Benghazi has faded as a shiny object (though you did get a link from Hugh Hewitt -- Congrats).
  
  "Damn liberal media. Time to wake up guys."
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Good question? Why wait for two days before the Presidential election of which Mitt Romney is the Republican nominee?
  Hmmm? Why would they do that?
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movingoutposted 11 years ago
Time to wake up folks! Romney caught on tape back in 07 saying he's against abortion 100%. Is this the guy you want to represent your daughters and grand daughters? He catagorizes US as the 47%, remember that? Hides his tax returns. Give me a break!@
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  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
  I keep saying "This could be the most damning piece of information yet..."
  And yet, each new revelation is eclipsed by the next one.
  
  TT, Do you have a link to that tape? I just heard it on Alex Wagner show but can't find it in a Google search.
  Warrants its own forum thread, methinks!!
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Wish you had a real reason to worry about him.
  Does he have Communists in his advisory staff?
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American Viewposted 11 years ago
Here we go, the story is beginning to come out and it is not about Romney. Two hours ago a report from NBC news

"Then General Motors did something that the Government Accountability Office, Congress’ investigative arm, later called “unusual.” GM agreed to top up the pensions of 22,000 Delphi members of the United Auto Workers union – at a cost of $1 billion. That enabled the UAW workers to still get their full pensions.
But there was no such sweetener for the company’s salaried employees or for the non-UAW hourly workers. And because the PBGC has statutory limits on how much it can pay in benefits, their payments were reduced sharply.

“We were the group that was just kicked to the curb like yesterday’s trash,” said Bruce Gump, vice-chairman of the Delphi Salaried Employees Association.
Now, two congressional committees and the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Recovery Program (SIGTARP) are investigating the basis and motivation for this decision. Was this a political favor for a powerful union that backed President Barack Obama, as critics claim? Or was this a business decision by GM, based, according to the company, on an agreement originally negotiated in 1999 during Delphi’s spin off from the automaker? What role did the Obama administration play?"

I wonder if the UAW story was to try and head off this one.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/20 … -them?lite
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Union employees got a better deal by using collective bargaining (the purpose of unions) obviously it's a government conspiracy
  
  Union employees have higher wages and better retirement around the country that is why they exist.
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Gemini Foxposted 11 years ago
Where I first heard this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moAMCCegX84

and what I found just today:

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politi … in-capital

Seriously! How is it that this guy is actually a candidate?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Because they don't decide who the candidates are based on right or left leaning outlets like that.
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  Gemini Foxposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  In other words "they" just listen to the mainstream media which is filled with everything BUT facts . . .totally agree.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The MSM print media hasn't touched the story yet. Maybe tomorrow.
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
American View, if you read this link thoroughly, you will see what happened with the salaried pensions.
http://www.thenation.com/article/170644 … t-bonanza#

That Romney was a part of Singer's hedge fund group that made billions off the auto bailout is enough.
It's astonishing what they did and got away with. This story needs to be thoroughly investigated and brought to light.
Vulture capitalists making ridiculous gains at the expense of hard working Americans without a blink of an eye~
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.scribd.com/doc/16769960/Delp … ransaction The sworn deposition of Delphi's CFO, this explains how Paul Singer and partners (Romney), killed the return of Delphi to GM.
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  In case you may have missed it, I posted a link from NBC news on the story of those Delphi retirement deals and it question Obama, not Romney.
  
  http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/20 … -them?lite
  
  I also pointed out I wonder how the President of the UAW knows what is in Ann Romney's blind trust since no one but the trustee knows what is in them. In addition, the lawyers know they cannot file ethics charges against Romney because he is not a public servant at this time, he is a private citizen. That changes if he wins the election and all of his holdings must be disclosed for all to see.
  
  I do not know if this story is true or not, I just know a lot of what the UAW guy is saying does not add up. Time will tell I guess.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  AV, Two very different stories...I have been following both
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  American Viewposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I agree Tammy, but the UAW story seems to be trying to get people to forget the other story. Unlike the threat from UAW the other story has an ongoing investigation, so I put more stock in that story. I just cannot get past watching that interview from Ed show claiming extortion and more and there is no investigation. Stuff like this is why we need to get that Political Securities Act before Congress.
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Amen, any story that is out here and not on the mainstream; that seems odd...We need to want truth always, no matter who is doing wrong, on which side of the isle...if we only persecute one then we are still doing nothing...it's hard to face facts when it's something you do not want to be true...from all sides, right?
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  Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hey AV, they don't care what that thing says they are going to try and pin it on Romney. There's two days left. Newspapers are jumping ship left to right. He made the hideous REVENGE! gaffe and it's over.
  They are in damage control and just praying.....well maybe all of them aren't praying....but they are by golly hoping it will torpedo Romney.
  
  This is what you get for ignoring Hillary gang!
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donotfearposted 11 years ago
STOP IT, NOW!!

PLEASE STOP THE INSANITY.......PLEASE!!!!!!!.

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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
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Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago
The day before the election Obama has an 86% chance of winning according to Nate Silver.

http://www.businessinsider.com/whos-win … ce-2012-11
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  habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I think Kleenex sales are going to go through the roof! I'm trying to warn my conservative pals and family members, but most of them will only watch FOX. Of course, most of the FOX pundits are predicting a Romney landslide. I've been urging them to watch/read news from other sources to get a more realistic picture and a different perspective. I think my efforts have been in vain. lol
  
  A lib friend of mine asked me if I was going to cry if/when Romney loses. I told her, "Heck no!" I cry fairly easily, but I've never shed tears over an election. The most disappointed I've ever been was when McCain lost, as I'd always been impressed by him. I dunno...maybe I'm just not passionate enough this time?
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I like the way Nate Smith uses the odds of winning a football game, here on the FiveThirtyEight Blog
  
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I found this link on my Twitter feed from Greg Palast, the author of the article posted in The Nation about the auto bailout profit made by the Romney's. It's an election eve letter written my Michael Moore, which is very much worth reading. I know many don't like MM, but he brings up some important points. His quote about the article in The Nation:
  
  There were two things in the news these past couple weeks that unfortunately got little attention. But these two stories say it all about the America we will have unless these people are stopped.
  
  One was a story in The Nation that exposed how Romney, while publicly opposing the auto company bailout, secretly got in on the action with his Wall Street donors – and made over $15 million, a 4,000% return on his investment (which he hid in a blind trust in his wife's name) by buying up the Delphi auto parts company, the former Delco/AC Spark Plug division of GM where my dad worked. He then – get this – grabbed billions in bailout cash to "transform" it from bankrupt to a "viable business." Except what he really did was slash retiree pensions, shut down 24 U.S. factories, and ship all 25,200 union jobs to China. You'd think he'd keep quiet about Delphi – but no, he's got his supporters running ads in Ohio blaming Barack Obama for terminating the Delphi pensions – I kid you not. (When I opposed the Iraq War, Romneyites and the like called me a "traitor"; when Romney does this traitorous act destroying jobs and sending them to China, his reward, in addition to the millions he pocketed, may be the presidency tomorrow.)
  
  http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike- … g/tomorrow
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Its kinda scary stuff.
  
  Just to give an update on some R.I.P Romney Polls in the last hour here are some tweets from Nate Silver @fivethirtyeight
  
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sofrugalmeposted 11 years ago
Better get me some stock right quick.
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rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago
I just saw that also on MSNBC, which I don't usually watch. But MM is supposed to be on the show and I want to see if he says anything about the article.
He's going to be on now, after a commercial, and he is going to address the Romney lie.
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Repairguy47posted 11 years ago
MSNBC
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Laugh all you want about MSNBC - at least they bring credibility from this guest tonight.
  The accuracy of Nate Silver's November 2008 presidential election predictions are something to take notice of—he correctly predicted the winner of 49 of the 50 states—The only state he missed was Indiana, which went for Barack Obama by 1%. He also correctly predicted the winner of all 35 Senate races that year.
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing credible about MSNBC or Michael Moore!
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, RG, are you trolling me.
  
  It's pretty tame if you ask me. MM didn't say anything I hadn't already read elsewhere.
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Just think your posts deserve a response, don't you?
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  her posts usually do deserve a response let alone a +1
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  Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, give her a +1.
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  rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  If you have something to say, sure. I'm actually tired of talking politics, but I believe tomorrow is a very important day. It's still a democracy, I want to keep it that way.
  
  tammy, MM did briefly mention something about it and I've seen mention of it here and there, Twitter is full of references to it ~~ but we won't hear anything in MSM until after the election.
  
  Thanks WG.
  That's it. Signing off for the night.
  
  sorry MM!
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Did I miss it? I have been wondering if the story ever broke in the media...I asked before, but does anyone know, if he chose to divest, would that squash the matter? I mean it does not change what he did, if he did, but the way the language read was disclose or divest...
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Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

Reading up from bottom post and see multiple references to "MM."
Immediate reaction, "Whatever I said I stand by it 100%" (apologies to Mitt Romney for bastardizing his line).
MM -- no relation to Michael Moore!
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Mighty Momposted 11 years ago
Most current Nate Silver predictions. Updated just a couple of hours ago:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/
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  wavegirl22posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  538 updates again: Pres Obama chance to win up to 92.2% to win on the eve of election. Mitt is at 7.8%
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  Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The bets have been hedged. Bigtime.
  
  Ryan "insiders" already talking about what Paul Ryan should do after the campaign -- become a professor, write a book (I guess that's what has-been GOP Veep candidates do as a matter of course -- cash in).
  Blaming Christie and saying he only said nice things about Obama's disaster response because he was pissed that he didn't get picked as Romney's Veep.
  No doubt Christie refusing to come be in Romney's rally tonight in PA is revenge for whoever leaked the news that he is the jilted Veep candidate.
  
  I've even heard that some believe Obama ORDERED the hurricane so he could look presidential.
  
  LOL. We should start a Top 10 Republican excuses thread.
  Oh wait. There's only one that counts: It's OBAMA'S FAULT!
  
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  tammybarnetteposted 11 years agoin reply to this
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