Ghostwritten & outsourced hubs

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   aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

   I'm still new & getting my head around the Adsense thing.. but something I noticed is an increasing prevalence of job listings on sites like Elance for bulk writing of hubs.
   
   People are here for commercial as well as creative reasons, I understand that, but in the context of such a great creative & supportive environment it just seems wrong to think that people are eaning kudos for hubs they didn't write.
   
   Possibly just me being overly tetchy, but I'm putting it out there.

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      AEvansposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting I believe the people who utilize elance are also the writers of there own hubs, well most of them.

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   Dale Mazurekposted 14 years ago

   Well there are probably a few schools of thoughts on that and you will definately get a lot of opinions.
   
   Even the marketing side of me doubts I would ever outsource Hubs.  Of course I am trying to make money but HubPages has become very personal for me.
   
   I enjoy the people I have met and a few of the battles I have been in.
   
   I have no problem with out sourcing, in fact I spend a few hundred dollars a month doing it now but when it comes to HubPages that just won't happen.
   
   Cheers

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   aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

   Yeah, it's a strange one. The Commercial / creative blend of hubpages is fairly unique. People often have a lot of themselves invested in the work they do here, more so than write for hire type jobs.
   
   I also wonder if a ghostwritten hub would be as successful? And how much of it is a numbers game as opposed to quality?

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   aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

   Actually, not so much interest in this - which would seem to indicate that the outsourced hubs thing is generally accepted.
   Fair enough.

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   Will Apseposted 14 years ago

   Why would anyone ghost write a hub? They might just as well publish themselves.

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      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Immediate guaranteed pay.

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         Stacie Lposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         wow, I don't think I would have admitted that...
         i struggle to come up with fresh ideas to write and research each hub..
         
         just doesn't seem right..
         don't mean to sound judgmental..
         does it really help you make more money having someone else write it?

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            Lissieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Do you think the local store owner writes the ads the store runs in the local paper? What about the advertorials in the papers- do you think the company who is advertised right those? Of course not they hire a specialist writer.
            
            Of course it helps me make money - I have paid for over 50 hubs to be written in the last month (on another account) - they are on American topics I know nothing about and that I don't even know the jargon for in US-english. So far I've made $97 - I haven't broken even on the writing cost - but  I will - and mores the point I wouldn't have made anything because if I was writing them myself I'd have about 5 done by now!
            
            My lissie hubs are all mine - but they are by far my worst money-makers!

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            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I think it does Stacie. Right now I am making an average of about $20 a month per hub. I think the maximum I ever paid for a hub was $25, with average being below $20. So it pays for itself in a month.
            
            And yes Sufi, it helps too

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      Julie-Ann Amosposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I write tons of 'em.  Get paid and many of them I also get to post on my own account and get the income and the client gets toe backlink.
      
      Some I do for clients in their account but once they see how much hassle it is either they have to pay me a decent fee to do that for them with their login or get cheap and just have me post it in my account...
      
      It's a lot more common than you seem to realise...

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   aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

   The write for hire people who haven't discovered Hubpages will do it. There are jobs listed on Elance right now with plenty of bidders.
   
   It's guaranteed income, whereas to own / manage a swag of hubpages takes time & generates a return over a longer period.

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   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   More than a half of my hubs are ghost written. Does it make me a worse community member? I doubt it

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      aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No, I don't think so either
      
      But I can't deny that I like the concept of direct feedback and that sense of community that comes from reading the work of others and having your work read by others.  It puts a different complexion to know that many of the authors aren't actually the author.. i.e. the feedback is going to the wrong person.
      
      Having said that, I haven't yet posted any hubs, so should maybe shut up, lol.

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hey, have fun, write your hubs yourself, by no means I implied you should not do this. I just said that I don't see a problem with either approach.

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      Will Apseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm curious to know why you don't write them yourself, since we are only talking about a few hubs. I could understand if you were generating hundreds of sure fire keyword opportunities with big revenue potentials but 8 Hubs...

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      Dale Mazurekposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely not, does this make you a worse community member.  I cant even say that in the future I wouldnt outsource Hubs for the business side of me.  For that aspect it does make a lot of sense.
      
      Outsourcing articles costs me hundreds a month but I greatly mnake up for it with more time and more income.
      
      As long as everything is quality and I'm sure Misha, you check everything before it goes live.

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Actually not Dale, I just make sure I hire the people I can trust

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            Dale Mazurekposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That makes total sense because you trust they are doing quality work for you and there is nothing wrong with that.
            
            Kudos

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   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Well, probably because I am not a writer and do not pretend to be one - so I am not really looking for a feedback. Then, English is not my native language, and text written by a native speaker using my ideas will always be higher quality then my own writing - and i do value quality.

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      Will Apseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      A reply in flawless English, I note. Perhaps an unnecessary anxiety is driving the outsourcing?

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Why thank you Will.
         
         But I have to say that a couple of years ago my English was a lot worse, Hubpages shaped it quite a bit
         
         As for unnecessary outsourcing - again, I am not a writer. I do enjoy writing a piece every now and then, but I don't have that urge of letting the World know about my thoughts on a daily basis. And since most of my hubs are for business purposes - for backlinks, experiments, and some pocket change - I often outsource the text.

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   pgrundyposted 14 years ago

   I think there are two groups of people here and some people have a foot in both groups. One group is just here to write and have fun and if they make a little money, all the better. The other group is here to make a little (or a lot) of money, and if they have fun all the better. Some people manage to do both.
   
   I don't see anything wrong with outsourcing hubs. I like to write my own though.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    And we like to read them Pam

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    Connie Smithposted 14 years ago

    I guess I am naive.  I never imagined that people would have 'ghostwritten' hubs.  However, I would be happy to ghostwrite hubs for others for cash....

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       pgrundyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Don't do that! Write 'em and post 'em under your own name. You'll make more in ad revenue that you will in direct payments for ghost writing. Yeah it takes awhile to build but write some everyday and you'll be happy sooner than you think.

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          girly_girl09posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That is why I don't ghost write for other people, I can make $20 a month (hopefully indefinitely) from publishing my own article on here. Or, I could sell an article for a one time fee of $5-$10? Hmm..... If you don't need the money right away, Pam is very correct. It takes a while to add up, but it is worth the wait and effort!

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             Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Quite right.  The thing is, some people are impatient - they spend a couple of months on HP and decide it's not going to make them money, and go looking for a fast result.
             
             For some reason, most people (including me) find that it takes three or four months for Hub traffic to take off, so people who give up too early never discover the real money-making potential of HP.
             
             I don't see anything wrong with people paying to have Hubs written for them, though.

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          Connie Smithposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks for the tip.  I am not really going to write hubs for others, especially not for $5!  I actually take my hub writing seriously.  I also didn't come for the cash, but I will take some if it comes my way.

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Pam, I take it you finally started making some money on the Hubs? Glad for you

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             pgrundyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Nothing like you and Mark, but I'm finally up to a monthly payout and working on boosting the amount. I didn't really think of HP as a money maker until very recently. Now I'm a taking it a bit more seriously. Thanks for the congrats!

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    aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

    There are quite a few hub jobs I saw listed .. you could always make the offer.

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    girly_girl09posted 14 years ago

    I have outsourced one hub. Just one. I basically had to re-write it!!! lol I'm so picky that I won't publish anything under my name that I don't find to be very good quality.
    
    I also wondered if it was a 're-write' of another article since some of the words definitely did not fit. A lot of outsourced writers simply find a good article and replace words and re-arrange paragraphs so it passes Copyscape. That is still plagiarism and I wasn't comfortable with this article because I felt like this might have happened to it. I re-wrote that article and put a totally different spin on it, just in case. So, I paid someone for basically doing nothing. I had to fix it all.
    
    I doubt I'll outsource again.
    
    I write articles pretty fast, so outsourcing for me isn't really a necessity. By the time I line someone up and get it from them, I could've done it myself for $0.00. Sure, the hubs eventually earn money and pay for themselves, but if I would've paid someone to write 10 hubs for me at $5 each, that's $50 that probably would've taken me a month or two to earn back.
    
    I love hubpages because I don't have to spend a dime to earn...not many opps like that out there!
    
    If you have found a great ghostwriter for a good price that writes perfect hubs that you can just copy & paste and are sure they are not re-written articles from someone else's original work, all the power to you! I wasn't able to find someone like that and have stopped looking.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    You've been looking in the wrong places Girly. Just a tip - try to look around here on Hubpages

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    My Downtown Viewposted 14 years ago

    Hi! I'm new here too and I just wanted to throw out a comment, something that's been bothering me a bit.
    IMP ghostwriting is fine, there is nothing unethical about it. But I know what aquea is talking about when she references the projects of Elance. There are a lot of jobs there looking for writers to produce 50 articles that the buyer will then submit to sites like Demand Studios, under the Buyer's name. I find that unethical, but that's the writer's prerogative. Other, similar projects are posted in which a provider will win the project and turn around and post it as their own project for half the price. That, to me, is wrong especially if the provider does not disclose this practice to their client. I see the similarity here because it poses the question about how fair it is to misrepresent your writing, while taking the money and notoriety for it? Is it akin to lying? All great people are influenced by someone, but how far are people willing to go to make a quick buck?

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       pgrundyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       If you worry about the ethics of Elance you will make yourself nuts.
       
       I only bid on stuff I actually want to do and can do quick. What the client does with it after that doesn't bother me. I mean, it's theirs--they can do what they want once I deliver it.
       
       What worries me more is managing other people's expectations. If someone is all about "I need 20 keyword stuffed 400 word articles that are going make my site #1 on Google within the first week," I run, run, run.
       
       Some of the clients are way less experienced than the writers. They just got some wild hair up their behind and think they are going to get rich on the internet and it's reasonable for them to ask you to make it happen for $5 per article. Whoa! Settle down! lol!

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          My Downtown Viewposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I completely agree - once i finish a project, it's outta my hands.  And yeah, worrying about ethics working on Elance could make your brain explode. What bothers me on Elance is that there are some people (providers) who bid on multiple projects and when they win them, hire a much less experienced and unqualified writer and pay them half what the original project was awarded for. Don't get me wrong, that's slick management there. The aspect of this that bothers me is there is no disclosure to either the original buyer or the sub-writer (substitute). I've seen too many buyers there upset that they have had to re-post their project because the work was terrible and they couldn't understand it since the provider they awarded it to supposedly had such great credentials; verified and everything! The buyer ends up spending twice as much to have it fixed, if they aren't under deadline in which case they have to fix it themselves with time they don't have. The buyer then leaves the experience with a bad view of Elance and unfortunately providers in general.  I think that's crappy for a writer to do; it's misrepresentation and greed.
          
          And I'm sorry I went off on a tangent, but quality work on Elance is in limbo and these few people are the reason why. For people who rely on elance as a huge chunk of their small income, it's shitty that one person can take the site a step back for everyone.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    If this is wrong to you, don't do it. Easy

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    DarwinsLaureateposted 14 years ago

    Personally, I'm addicted to ghostwriting. (surprise, surprise)
    
    On HP it's never about the money for me, its all about the fun and the friends along the way.

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    Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

    I also have written Hubs for others - it is no problem - not everybody is here for the writing plaudits! Don't think that they were for adsense as much as advertising and backlinks.

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       DarwinsLaureateposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Or best yet..working together.

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          Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Always a good reason - my buddy, Fierycj, is here for that, too

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             DarwinsLaureateposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Thanks for the tip, I'll have to drop him a line.

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       Julie-Ann Amosposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The ones I do definitely aren't for adsense, as the client more often than not wants me to publish in MY account - they're for backlinks and publicity.

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    aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

    Sufi I loved your Sparta hubs .. tell me you really live there & it's not a ghostwriter's story

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    Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

    Thanks for the kind words, aquasea - no problem - all but one of the ghostwritten Hubs are on other accounts. I really do live near Sparta!

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    DonnaCSmithposted 14 years ago

    I found hubs by answering a Craig's list ad for writing content for hubs. He and I concured I'd do better joining up and writing my own hubs - which I did via his referral. I can't remember his name I am sorry to say. But, I sure am glad I answered his ad! And i hope he's reaped a little bit by referring me. Don't even know how that works?

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    B.T. Evilpantsposted 14 years ago

    It had never occurred to me that someone would pay a ghost writer for hubs, until somebody asked me to write some for them. I wrestled with it for a while. It just felt wrong. Then another hubber pointed out that it if I didn't do it, someone else probably would. And it wouldn't necessarily be done with an eye toward quality. So, yeah, I've ghost written about a half dozen or so.

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    Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

    Sure - it is not all about adsense. If you run a business, Hubpages is a good place to advertise your site. It only takes a few extra sales, and you have more than paid for the writer.

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    aquaseaCreativeposted 14 years ago

    This is actually really interesting - people use hubpages in so many ways.
    
    How many hubbers do you think are actually writers? Or are most of the writers outside of the site doing paid hubs & the hubbers are more about the marketing smarts?
    
    This is all such a mind spin for me..I was naively accepting that the 'author' was the author.. skipping along and becoming a fan of the work I liked best. When actually they probably paid for those articles.
    
    Will process this new info in due course, just a bit taken aback.

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       My Downtown Viewposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'm a bit disgusted with that practice. Making money off of someone else's work that you bought for pennies on the dollar and then using it to misrepresent your own qualifications.
       
       Ghostwriting is ghostwriting, selling copy rights is selling copy rights. It's the misrepresentation and deceit that I've seen a few "writers" exploit that is a mind bender for me. Kathy Lee tried this sort of business practice with her clothing line a while back. Of course, this is mostly Elance related, since I'm really new here and have yet to find my way around. Something in this thread took me off on a tangent, but I was just reminded of that spiny-dizzy-nausea feeling associated with sea sickness.

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I thought I told you already - if you don't like it, don't do it. It does not get any easier than that.

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