War
- Candy Beauclair
- 9 posts
- Joined: 2 months ago
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We have been at war now for about six years and for what. We have fought for every other reason besides what we should of been fighting for. We needed to stay focused on why we went to war in the first place. I feel we could of handled this situation in a different, quicker way. We could of went in there without any one knowing and took care of the problem and got out of their but instead we started a world war. The lives that have been lost are just enormously up in count. Everyday more and more lives are lost. I think it's time for us to go in and take them out at all costs. We really need to stop messing around. We have the man power and the equipment to end this. I think it's time to show these terrorist just who they are messing with. Lets not make this a war like world war two. We need to end this war before it causes any more damage.
Candy Beauclair wrote:
We have been at war now for about six years and for what. We have fought for every other reason besides what we should of been fighting for. We needed to stay focused on why we went to war in the first place. I feel we could of handled this situation in a different, quicker way. We could of went in there without any one knowing and took care of the problem and got out of their but instead we started a world war. The lives that have been lost are just enormously up in count. Everyday more and more lives are lost. I think it's time for us to go in and take them out at all costs. We really need to stop messing around. We have the man power and the equipment to end this. I think it's time to show these terrorist just who they are messing with. Lets not make this a war like world war two. We need to end this war before it causes any more damage.
Wow, it is nice to find an absolute expert on war and why we went to war. Thanks for your sentiments. So what's your suggestion, it seems like all you're saying is that we need to end the war. Ok, how do you suppose to do that? We should just go and destroy the taliban huh? Ok, how do you recommend we do that? Should we leave Iraq and Afganistan? What about an exit strategy? Should we just up and leave? What exactly are you recommending?
- Candy Beauclair
- 9 posts
- Joined: 2 months ago
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wesleycox wrote:
Candy Beauclair wrote:
We have been at war now for about six years and for what. We have fought for every other reason besides what we should of been fighting for. We needed to stay focused on why we went to war in the first place. I feel we could of handled this situation in a different, quicker way. We could of went in there without any one knowing and took care of the problem and got out of their but instead we started a world war. The lives that have been lost are just enormously up in count. Everyday more and more lives are lost. I think it's time for us to go in and take them out at all costs. We really need to stop messing around. We have the man power and the equipment to end this. I think it's time to show these terrorist just who they are messing with. Lets not make this a war like world war two. We need to end this war before it causes any more damage.
Wow, it is nice to find an absolute expert on war and why we went to war. Thanks for your sentiments. So what's your suggestion, it seems like all you're saying is that we need to end the war. Ok, how do you suppose to do that? We should just go and destroy the taliban huh? Ok, how do you recommend we do that? Should we leave Iraq and Afganistan? What about an exit strategy? Should we just up and leave? What exactly are you recommending?
I feel we should go in and bomb where necessary just wipe them out. We have our secret services that can do just about anything and our navy seals have quite a bit of special training up there sleeves. If we would of went in secretly in the first place and took care of the situation without anyone ever knowing what hit them we most likely wouldn't be at war right now.
80- FranyaBlue
- 10 posts
- Joined: 3 months ago
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The government can do just about anything. I think that they are doing exactly as they have planned...I heard somewhere that war is the biggest money maker for the government, so why would they want to end it so soon?
here's the thing about going in secretly: if we get caught we take on more public scrutiny from around the world, even our allies. i don't care for world opinion of the US, I'm just throwing that out there to think about. originally we wnt in there "balls to the walls" with Bush's shock and awe and it worked. however that was when we were battling a standing nations army. We are now fighting insurgents, terrorists, rebels, and others who don't like us. They don't exactly fight like a standing army. They like to hide next to the common citizen, so bombing doesn't neccessarily work, and special forces work to an extent but requires cooperation from a scrared civilian population. Keep in mind two wars went on in Iraq. Operation Iraqi Freedom, the fight against Sadam's standing army, which we kicked butt and won. Now the second war is taking place against alqaeda, alqaeda in Iraq, and Iran's plain closed mercs (as confirmed by many sorces). Another reason the secret service and special forces isn't working is because of the assault the left puts on their tactics, which were proven effective wether one agrees with them or not. Yes, they are there, on the ground, and looking for them. However their hands are tied to what to do about them. Both of you are right, but unfortunately we all need to keep in mind the political and beaurocratic aspects of the 21st century war... I don't like it either.
There is much more at work here than you think.
The American military is they force arm of a larger corporate strategy. I can elaborate on this, but only if there is any true interest in such a discussion.
In Iraq the United States funded and supplied Saddam Hussein with his arms and much of his chemical weapons program. We gave him incentive and manipulated him into launching a war against Iran, to whom a few years before we had been selling overpriced weapons(Iran-Contra).
We gave Saddam the satellite images of Iranian cities so that they could be bombed, and when he failed at his task he became trouble.
"He attacked Kuwait"........his increasingly foreign indebted nation (and a bastion of OPEC by the way) was being undermined by internal conflicts paid for and armed by the United States, and irritants like slant drilling Iraqi oil from Kuwait along the border region.
Let us remember that the political lines of the "Middle East" were the product of, primarily, the French and British treaty signed during World War One, in which they divide this region of the Ottoman Empire into their own spheres of influence......
The Israeli-Palestinian issue is the central responsibility of the British Government and the U.N. (Britain, the U.S., and France), who decide to support the treaty they signed with the Israelis while ignoring the signed agreements made with Arab leaders.
But not meaning to digress.....there is a document that can be found online entitled "Operation Northwoods" from the early 1960's through which the military sought to exploit or create events with Cuba to create the belief that American troops needed to be sent there.
Read it......
Late in 1999 an article was published in "Foreign Policy", calling for an end to the failed American strategy of funding and arming Kurdish and Shia militias to overthrow Saddam, and a call for "rollback", meaning a way to get American troops on the ground because, in the minds of the strategy policy experts who put this article together, only with American troops could Saddam be toppled.
compare these two things in their own contexts and think about the year 2001.
Pipelines of various types were planned for construction in Afghanistan, with, if I remember correctly, some work to be done in Pakistan. Following the Citibank "Plutonomy" memo, "capitalist-friendly" governments are needed for international corporations to invest and do business.
We subsidize business ventures, which often time need some type of military assistance to soften up both the locals and local competition.
We can create threats that otherwise either don't exist, or amplify those who don't have the means that have been represented.
The American people are, many if not most, largely ignorant of history, culture (aside from their own), and lack a sense of interest in discovering new, or just under-represented ideas...
What is the School of the Americas?
Who pays for it, and where is it located?
What does it do?
What do its graduates do?
Who decides what "terrorism" really is?
Who decides when this war is "over"?
Remember, we had Bin Laden trapped at Tora Bora.....but U.S. Army high command blocked the order that would have surrounded him....critnour wrote:
here's the thing about going in secretly: if we get caught we take on more public scrutiny from around the world, even our allies. i don't care for world opinion of the US, I'm just throwing that out there to think about. originally we wnt in there "balls to the walls" with Bush's shock and awe and it worked. however that was when we were battling a standing nations army. We are now fighting insurgents, terrorists, rebels, and others who don't like us. They don't exactly fight like a standing army. They like to hide next to the common citizen, so bombing doesn't neccessarily work, and special forces work to an extent but requires cooperation from a scrared civilian population. Keep in mind two wars went on in Iraq. Operation Iraqi Freedom, the fight against Sadam's standing army, which we kicked butt and won. Now the second war is taking place against alqaeda, alqaeda in Iraq, and Iran's plain closed mercs (as confirmed by many sorces). Another reason the secret service and special forces isn't working is because of the assault the left puts on their tactics, which were proven effective wether one agrees with them or not. Yes, they are there, on the ground, and looking for them. However their hands are tied to what to do about them. Both of you are right, but unfortunately we all need to keep in mind the political and beaurocratic aspects of the 21st century war... I don't like it either.
Well-said.
Candy Beauclair wrote:
I feel we should go in and bomb where necessary just wipe them out. We have our secret services that can do just about anything and our navy seals have quite a bit of special training up there sleeves. If we would of went in secretly in the first place and took care of the situation without anyone ever knowing what hit them we most likely wouldn't be at war right now.
"Just wipe them out." Who? The "evil-doers?" The "bad guys?" They don't just walk around with big signs, and I don't think they are all holed up in one building, so how exactly does bombing to "wipe them out" make any sense?
What would you say if China, or any foreign army, just "wiped out" your neighborhood because there were supposedly bad people hiding there. Americans are so quick to say we should bomb the hell out of other countries, yet have no idea what it's like to be bombed. The closest thing to actual bombing or an attack in the continental US was 9/11, for which the entire world stopped. These situations are very complex, and if someone is unwilling to learn the complexities, statements like these are irresponsible at best.
82- Adnan Habib
- 35 posts
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Who will decide who is evil or not?
89- prettydarkhorse
- 1993 posts
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My own opinion on this thing is that for me War is never an option. There is more output if everybody is at peace. The objective of the UN is exactly this one, diversity in unity, respect for all.
82- cmlindblom
- 38 posts
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without war i have no job and make alot less money but still wiping people out is rediculous, you cant do that. ive been over there and there are way more families just living their life then there are "bad guys". are you saying we should go into a neighborhood with a high crime rate and just wipe them out. what about that one little old lady whos lived there all her life you gonna wipe her out too? obviously not and you really cant tell a bad guy from a good guy untill the bullet is coming at you.
74- sneakorocksolid
- 2497 posts
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Adnan Habib wrote:
Who will decide who is evil or not?
Thats easy, anyone who supports islama-nazis are wrong.
- 74
- sneakorocksolid
- 2497 posts
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Wars have to be fought by the military. Once the decision is made the civilian opinion is finished. No rules of engagement, no ridiculus agreements that only we obey and no interference. You let our kids fight as hard as they can so we can get them back home. I feel for the innocents caught in the middle but I care more for our kids.
- 82
- cmlindblom
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sneakorocksolid wrote:
Wars have to be fought by the military. Once the decision is made the civilian opinion is finished. No rules of engagement, no ridiculus agreements that only we obey and no interference. You let our kids fight as hard as they can so we can get them back home. I feel for the innocents caught in the middle but I care more for our kids.
Very true statement. You dont even want to know how I feel about the rules of engagement or letting the civilian populous be involved in what we do once we are engaged in war. I know some of them think they are doing a good thing by creating all these rules soo we dont terrorize people our selfs but its just coming back and getting our own forces killed. its a tricky situation that will probly never get solved.
- 74
- sneakorocksolid
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cmlindblom wrote:
sneakorocksolid wrote:
Wars have to be fought by the military. Once the decision is made the civilian opinion is finished. No rules of engagement, no ridiculus agreements that only we obey and no interference. You let our kids fight as hard as they can so we can get them back home. I feel for the innocents caught in the middle but I care more for our kids.
Very true statement. You dont even want to know how I feel about the rules of engagement or letting the civilian populous be involved in what we do once we are engaged in war. I know some of them think they are doing a good thing by creating all these rules soo we dont terrorize people our selfs but its just coming back and getting our own forces killed. its a tricky situation that will probly never get solved.
Hear!Hear!
- C.J. Wright
- 508 posts
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Adnan Habib wrote:
Who will decide who is evil or not?
Right wrong or indifferent, the VICTOR decides who is evil.
88- Madame X
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C.J. Wright wrote:
Adnan Habib wrote:
Who will decide who is evil or not?
Right wrong or indifferent, the VICTOR decides who is evil.
Not nesso - they may 'say' the loser is evil, but evil does have a specific definition.
42- rhamson
- 1212 posts
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Candy Beauclair wrote:
We have been at war now for about six years and for what. We have fought for every other reason besides what we should of been fighting for. We needed to stay focused on why we went to war in the first place. I feel we could of handled this situation in a different, quicker way. We could of went in there without any one knowing and took care of the problem and got out of their but instead we started a world war. The lives that have been lost are just enormously up in count. Everyday more and more lives are lost. I think it's time for us to go in and take them out at all costs. We really need to stop messing around. We have the man power and the equipment to end this. I think it's time to show these terrorist just who they are messing with. Lets not make this a war like world war two. We need to end this war before it causes any more damage.
How old are you? Really!
- C.J. Wright
- 508 posts
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Madame X wrote:
C.J. Wright wrote:
Adnan Habib wrote:
Who will decide who is evil or not?
Right wrong or indifferent, the VICTOR decides who is evil.
Not nesso - they may 'say' the loser is evil, but evil does have a specific definition.
Well, thats the difference between conotation and denotation. I was speaking of the cliche, "history is written by the victor". War is a lot like gambling, you can make all the right decisions based on the best information and still loose.
89- Poppa Blues
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Really, if it were easy we'd have done it already. We were kind of forced into this war in Afghanistan. We publicly said we would do something about the perpetrators of 9/11 and we did, though we never achieved what we really wanted, to bring Bin Laden to justice.
You talk about the lives lost and you're probably only considering the lives of the USA and ally soldiers, but an estimated 600,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq and in Afghanistan probably another 100,000.
We are in a military standoff. Surely we have the upper hand. We can impose our will but we are constantly harassed by insurgents. This war can easily spread to Pakistan and beyond and with every civilian we kill or maim, we create new enemies that want revenge.
War is a messy business, that's why a decision to go to war must be made with very careful regard for the consequences. There is no easy way out short of a nuclear strike to virtually kill everyone, man, woman, and child.
