Should the terror suspects be tried in New York City
81- Friendlyword
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I think they should be tried where the crime occurred. I think we New Yorkers deserve to some kind of justice at long last. We did not get the Towers rebuilt immediately like we should have. The leaders of this City gave Osama Bin Laden his final victory by replacing our Towers with some ridiculous mess. They were our pyramids, you could see them from any part of the City. We were very proud of them. To be on the one of the top floors of the towers and feel them sway in the wind like a tree was a feeling I will never forget.
Some people feel we the people of New York dont need to see some of the people responsible for destroying the towers and killing alot of us tried here in New York City. One of those people is our ex Mayor. Why...because he is going to run for Governor and he does not want the world to see news footage of him running down Church Street away from his Disaster Command Center. The Command Center he built in the World Trade Center after the first bombing attack. Smart Man. And...he really does not want you to see news footage of him running down Church Street with New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Keric. He is in jail, or he's out on bail, or he got his bail revoked for committing a crime while he was on bail...I cant keep up with the guy. Anyway, to avoid some embarrassment or ex Mayor is willing to deny the us the chance to finally see some type of justice done at long last.
90- mistywild
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Abso-frigin-loutely
- 81
- Friendlyword
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mistywild wrote:
Abso-frigin-loutely
Everyone seems to have some personal agenda concerning the 9/11 attack. And they never seems to include the People of New York in their plans.
86- fishtiger58
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Yes they should be tried where the crime took place. Sometimes when a case is high profile they move to a different area. Really I think no matter where they go everyone has heard about it so it doesn't really matter where they are tried as long as they are. And about time too!!
- C.J. Wright
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Friendlyword wrote:
I think they should be tried where the crime occurred. I think we New Yorkers deserve to some kind of justice at long last. We did not get the Towers rebuilt immediately like we should have. The leaders of this City gave Osama Bin Laden his final victory by replacing our Towers with some ridiculous mess. They were our pyramids, you could see them from any part of the City. We were very proud of them. To be on the one of the top floors of the towers and feel them sway in the wind like a tree was a feeling I will never forget.
Some people feel we the people of New York dont need to see some of the people responsible for destroying the towers and killing alot of us tried here in New York City. One of those people is our ex Mayor. Why...because he is going to run for Governor and he does not want the world to see news footage of him running down Church Street away from his Disaster Command Center. The Command Center he built in the World Trade Center after the first bombing attack. Smart Man. And...he really does not want you to see news footage of him running down Church Street with New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Keric. He is in jail, or he's out on bail, or he got his bail revoked for committing a crime while he was on bail...I cant keep up with the guy. Anyway, to avoid some embarrassment or ex Mayor is willing to deny the us the chance to finally see some type of justice done at long last.
I don't believe this guy being tried should have the benefit of our legal system. He was captured abroad and should have been tried via Military Tribunal. Where the Tribunal would be held? I couldn't care less. What angers me is that 8 years later this guy still has not been dealt with. I can't imagine that this guy has provided 8 years of usefull information.
My fear now is that his defense will be that he was tortured. That any admissions will be thrown out. If this guy is aquitted, it will have more to do with what happened to him after the attack than his involvement in the attack.
81- d camp rant
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The problem is: finding 12 jurors without a bias towards these 5 terrorist. Are you comfortable giving these terrorist our constitutional rights? They were found and taken on Afganistan not U.S. soil. What about the media circus? How does that show respect to the family members of the 3,000 fallen citizens?
I find it kinda coincidental Eric Holder tried and tried to go after the Bush Admin. and the C.I.A. but to no avail, and now he has found a way.
Those five scumbags do not deserve our constitutional rights. They most definetly do not deserve the tens of thousands of New Yorkers tax dollars it will take to hold them,feed them, defend them. Did we bring the Nazi's to New York and hold trials for them here? They deserve the same treatment they would give our soldiers and journalist had they found them-beheadings!There are different justice rules for treason, why not terrorists? While I do believe NYC should have it's justice, I think using taxpayers money to try them in the normal course of events is a slap in the face for all of us.
69- rhamson
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Absolutely Khalid Sheikh Mohammed should be tried in New York where the crime took place. What could be the reason otherwise? Are we afraid that he will be let off by a weak justice system? This is the system by which we put our own convicts to death. Wouldn't it be a little hypocritical to not subject him to the same process we subject ourselves to under the constitution. If the government is afraid of due process let them prove that he was not entitled to it. The holding of these people without a trial has been a blight on our record of human rights. How can we critisize other countries for the very practice we employ?
- 69
- rhamson
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The Rope wrote:
There are different justice rules for treason, why not terrorists? While I do believe NYC should have it's justice, I think using taxpayers money to try them in the normal course of events is a slap in the face for all of us.
If it were a civilian court or a military court wouldn't the taxpayer still be footing the bill?
93- Jonathan Janco
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The Rope wrote:
There are different justice rules for treason, why not terrorists? While I do believe NYC should have it's justice, I think using taxpayers money to try them in the normal course of events is a slap in the face for all of us.
Gitmo is also funded by the tax payers, so was the trial of Saddam Hussein. I do feel the trial should take place where the crime did. As for housing them in U.S. prisons, I'm perfectly comfortable with that. And obviously they wouldn't be recruiting in our prisons, because the Aryan Brotherhood and the Latin Kings don't like to share their monopolies.
rhamson wrote:
The Rope wrote:
There are different justice rules for treason, why not terrorists? While I do believe NYC should have it's justice, I think using taxpayers money to try them in the normal course of events is a slap in the face for all of us.
If it were a civilian court or a military court wouldn't the taxpayer still be footing the bill?
doesn't take nearly as long
87- Poppa Blues
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Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!Poppa Blues wrote:
Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!I need a 10 Thumbs up icon! Thanks PB!
- 69
- rhamson
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Poppa Blues wrote:
Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!This statement alone says it all. You don't trust a fair trial to take place.
This is not a question of US rights but of human rights. It is so hypocritical to hold other countries to higher standard when we don't exercise the same standards we push on other countries. Maybe a trial in the Hague would be better as this was an international incident? - 87
- Poppa Blues
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rhamson wrote:
Poppa Blues wrote:
Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!This statement alone says it all. You don't trust a fair trial to take place.
This is not a question of US rights but of human rights. It is so hypocritical to hold other countries to higher standard when we don't exercise the same standards we push on other countries. Maybe a trial in the Hague would be better as this was an international incident?Again you miss the point! No country not even the USA has EVER tried prisoners of war in civilian courts! What's wrong with a military tribunal? That's a internationally accepted process for justice! There is no good reason to bring that filth back to NY for what would only be a show trial! The AG has said he is confident of the outcome, so what's the point? This idea is stupid on so many levels it's just unfathomable and it clearly highlights the naivete and inexperience of Obama and his minions!
- 69
- rhamson
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Poppa Blues wrote:
rhamson wrote:
Poppa Blues wrote:
Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!This statement alone says it all. You don't trust a fair trial to take place.
This is not a question of US rights but of human rights. It is so hypocritical to hold other countries to higher standard when we don't exercise the same standards we push on other countries. Maybe a trial in the Hague would be better as this was an international incident?Again you miss the point! No country not even the USA has EVER tried prisoners of war in civilian courts! What's wrong with a military tribunal? That's a internationally accepted process for justice! There is no good reason to bring that filth back to NY for what would only be a show trial! The AG has said he is confident of the outcome, so what's the point? This idea is stupid on so many levels it's just unfathomable and it clearly highlights the naivete and inexperience of Obama and his minions!
But if you are really about the right thing being done I would suggest a trial in The World Court. This was not just a domestic military event. The international ties alone dictate that it should be placed in a neutral place with objective oversight. A military trial has all sorts of caveats with it that won't allow evidence of sensitive national security deemed by the military. The odds are stacked in the governments favor through control of the evidence. Not a fair way of dealing with the players. No my friend your obvious bias is ruling you in this case and by denying someone a fair trial and then surely an execution by the same hands will be a dark day for human rights and America. I guess everyone that doesn't share your view is an Obamamite huh?
- C.J. Wright
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rhamson wrote:
Poppa Blues wrote:
Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!This statement alone says it all. You don't trust a fair trial to take place.
This is not a question of US rights but of human rights. It is so hypocritical to hold other countries to higher standard when we don't exercise the same standards we push on other countries. Maybe a trial in the Hague would be better as this was an international incident?International incident? One was the mastermind of the attacks. He commited crimes against the US. No, I can not support giving up our sovernty on this guy.
Technicality. What that means is that it is reasonable to expect that the rules of arrest and miranda probably didn't take place on the battlefield. Nor did they take place during internment. Further interogation methods will be questioned. Those are all tecnicalities that could lead to critical evidence being withheld, prejeducial evidence being introduced, etc. All of these technicalities could lead to an aquittal based on the lack of due process, not the merits of the evidence.
We have history to teach us how to deal with these people. Barbary Pirates.......
Bottom line, the biggest miscariage of justice is that all of these clowns are still alive in GTMO.
HOW DARE YOU! Run on about HUMAN RIGHTS in defence of men who planned the murder of thousands of inocent people....- 69
- rhamson
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C.J. Wright wrote:
rhamson wrote:
Poppa Blues wrote:
Absolutely not! They should be put before a military tribunal, tried and executed. They are not US citizens and they are not criminals, they are terrorists captured on a battlefield of war. Why should they get the benefits that US citizens get? Why should they be given a platform to espouse their views of hate?
This would only be a show trial, designed to try the previous administration for their perceived human rights violations! What if they are found not guilty on some technicality?
No. No civilian trial!This statement alone says it all. You don't trust a fair trial to take place.
This is not a question of US rights but of human rights. It is so hypocritical to hold other countries to higher standard when we don't exercise the same standards we push on other countries. Maybe a trial in the Hague would be better as this was an international incident?International incident? It took place with the accused mastermind, a Kuwaiti National with mostly Saudi accomplises One was the mastermind of the attacks. He commited crimes against the US.[Clearly an attack from outside the States[/b] No, I can not support giving up our sovernty on this guy. Why, because the loss of control over the outcome?
Technicality. What that means is that it is reasonable to expect that the rules of arrest and miranda probably didn't take place on the battlefield. Nor did they take place during internment. Further interogation methods will be questioned. Those are all tecnicalities that could lead to critical evidence being withheld, prejeducial evidence being introduced, etc. All of these technicalities could lead to an aquittal based on the lack of due process, not the merits of the evidence. Once again suspension of individual rights and witholding due process
We have history to teach us how to deal with these people. Barbary Pirates.......A convenient way to dole out justice
Bottom line, the biggest miscariage of justice is that all of these clowns are still alive in GTMO. With this attitude there is no way a fair trial can take place in this country if everyone believes as you.
HOW DARE YOU! I dare to be the voice of reason and fairplay while you only wish a conviction and want to facilitate its happening.Run on about HUMAN RIGHTS in defence of men who planned the murder of thousands of inocent people.... I am sorry my friend but you can't have it both ways. The US cannot afford a Kangaroo court trial to convict these individuals if it wishes to rail about human rights in other countries. The Liberal minded folks in the US Government have finally gone over the edge in a politically motivated exercise that will no doubt backfire on them somewhere down the road. The decision to bring these self admitted terrorists to New York City and put them on trial for their crimes is an attempt to provide a forum for the Dem’s to show they can be tough while also being fair. The idea is to show the American electorate that they can trust the Democrats with National Security while providing the rest of the world with evidence that the USA under the current Government is compassionate and civilized. The first wall you have to hurdle is to call the World Trade Center bombings a “crime” versus an “act of war”. With everything that has happened prior to 9/11 and for sure directly after, it is almost inconceivable that anyone could leap to this conclusion. Secondly by taking this step they are providing war criminals with all of the protections in the Constitution of the United States which should be reserved for US citizens only. Even if you argue that the crime was committed on US soil these guys were certainly not in North America and in fact were captured as Prisoners of War on foreign soil. Third is the fact that the other POW’s in Gitmo either will or have been tried by military tribunals. It is then obvious why the Libs want the high profile guys handled in New York (PUBLICITY!). To the first point it is ludicrous to think that the enemies of the USA will think any better of them because they put these guys on trial. If you look closely at these people and any of the Countries that sympathize with them, you will see that their method of doling out punishment is far more severe and undemocratic than anything seen in the western world. Do you honestly think taking this step will change their thinking? The other western nations (primarily Europe) are almost impotent in terms of their ability to deal with terrorists so why should anyone care what they think? In fact the publicity of these trials will play right into the terrorist’ hands as they will have a national stage to berate the USA which will provide a strong recruiting tool for young Jihadists to help their cause. To the second point can you imagine the life that a judge and jury would have after the trial of these radical Muslims? Does the name Salmon Rushdie conjure up any images? For the last point I have to take you back to WWII and the Nuremburg trials that saw the German leaders who developed and executed the atrocities of that war. They were tried in a World Court under Military rules of procedure. The soldiers were kept in prison camps until the end of the hostilities and then set free to return home. What is wrong with this model? It doesn’t work for the Libs because they see the terrorists as misguided souls that will suddenly wake up and embrace the United States and the Western world when they find out how nice we are. They want to convert the world to our democratic style of life. While that is a nice objective I thought our Country’s first priority was to protect its citizens, and not to save the world? God bless the unfortunate families that lost friends and family in the World Trade Center tragedy. They will have to put up with these arrogant !@#$%$%% standing up on TV every day thumping their chests and berating the United States of America along with their loved ones. I say shame on the political opportunists.
WWW.seniorsmoment.ca- 69
- rhamson
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davimeson wrote:
The Liberal minded folks in the US Government have finally gone over the edge in a politically motivated exercise that will no doubt backfire on them somewhere down the road. The decision to bring these self admitted terrorists to New York City and put them on trial for their crimes is an attempt to provide a forum for the Dem’s to show they can be tough while also being fair. The idea is to show the American electorate that they can trust the Democrats with National Security while providing the rest of the world with evidence that the USA under the current Government is compassionate and civilized. The first wall you have to hurdle is to call the World Trade Center bombings a “crime” versus an “act of war”. With everything that has happened prior to 9/11 and for sure directly after, it is almost inconceivable that anyone could leap to this conclusion. Secondly by taking this step they are providing war criminals with all of the protections in the Constitution of the United States which should be reserved for US citizens only. Even if you argue that the crime was committed on US soil these guys were certainly not in North America and in fact were captured as Prisoners of War on foreign soil. Third is the fact that the other POW’s in Gitmo either will or have been tried by military tribunals. It is then obvious why the Libs want the high profile guys handled in New York (PUBLICITY!). To the first point it is ludicrous to think that the enemies of the USA will think any better of them because they put these guys on trial. If you look closely at these people and any of the Countries that sympathize with them, you will see that their method of doling out punishment is far more severe and undemocratic than anything seen in the western world. Do you honestly think taking this step will change their thinking? The other western nations (primarily Europe) are almost impotent in terms of their ability to deal with terrorists so why should anyone care what they think? In fact the publicity of these trials will play right into the terrorist’ hands as they will have a national stage to berate the USA which will provide a strong recruiting tool for young Jihadists to help their cause. To the second point can you imagine the life that a judge and jury would have after the trial of these radical Muslims? Does the name Salmon Rushdie conjure up any images? For the last point I have to take you back to WWII and the Nuremburg trials that saw the German leaders who developed and executed the atrocities of that war. They were tried in a World Court under Military rules of procedure. The soldiers were kept in prison camps until the end of the hostilities and then set free to return home. What is wrong with this model? It doesn’t work for the Libs because they see the terrorists as misguided souls that will suddenly wake up and embrace the United States and the Western world when they find out how nice we are. They want to convert the world to our democratic style of life. While that is a nice objective I thought our Country’s first priority was to protect its citizens, and not to save the world? God bless the unfortunate families that lost friends and family in the World Trade Center tragedy. They will have to put up with these arrogant !@#$%$%% standing up on TV every day thumping their chests and berating the United States of America along with their loved ones. I say shame on the political opportunists.
WWW.seniorsmoment.caWell it seems you have pidgeonholed the topic with regards to placing everyone who does not believe as you in a particular hole. There is so much distortion and conjecture in that piece that it will take too much time to give every "fact" its' due. I am all for sending this to the Hague and allowing a war tribunal handle the trial and executions if found guilty. There is no argument that there should be a trial but what you propose is a travesty. And for what? To assure a guilty verdict and appease our anger at the cost of our values? I am sorry but the US is in a pickle over this because you can't espouse Liberty and Justice for Alland railroad a trial because it feels good.
