The 'How To Christianity' Guide

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A Troubled Manposted 12 years ago
Just live by the moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and forget the other nonsense about gods, walking on water, healing the sick and lame, heaven, hell, evangelism and all the other gobbledegook written in the Bible. Simple, yet highly effective.

Mankind would appreciate it.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And try to stop preaching it as a fact, it can't be fact if it can't be proven. Faith is a word pastors made up in order to sucker other people into becoming believers. It's a business, not a religion.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry but I see no "Business" in Evangelizing, but it is a duty to be followed.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is something every one has, but is greatly misplaced. it is believing! You get hungry you have a faith, a knowing that you are hungry and what you can and cannot eat. Say you like PB & J sandwiches, You have tasted it before you liked it, and you did not die from it, and you have heard from many others that it is healthy and good for you, so you have constituted a "faith" a knowing within your own self that you like these sandwiches and would not have a problem offering anyone a sandwich and you would tell them all about it and how you make yours etc. faith, simple faith.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Being hungry has nothing to with fath, it's a biological imparative.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't speaking of the hunger but the faith that you found in searching for a cure for that hunger. faith is knowing you can go to the cabinet, get out the bread and make you a sandwich. that is what I am referring too.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have to know the ingredients are there first. That's not faith. Faith is believing that which cannot be seen or known by fact or circumstance.
  
  I agree that everyone can have it, but not that everyone does have it.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled: It is not just that simple because one of the teachings of Jesus is to evangelize his teachings to any and all who will hear. As a matter of fact this is considered as Jesus Grand Commission to spread his teachings and baptize.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Blind leading the blind
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong opening the eyes of those who wish to learn and know.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wrong, closing the eyes of those people who might learn.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can't close someone's eyes unless they want to be closed. Nor can you open them.
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  gregasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's right. Each want the other to see their side, but at the same time they don't try to see each others side. This subject is being run into the ground, and just like politicians today, no one wants to give. Each side is right 100% and then they turn a blind eye. Greg
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mischeviousme you have faith every day the car is going to start, the grass is going to grow, the sun is coming out, that your paycheck will come, that your going to wake up and your arms and legs are going to work. Faith doesn't just have to do with Religion. While we wait for relationships to work out, or a job opportunity comes, what ever the situation you are having faith something is going to happen. Sorry people think that has to do with just religion.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are confusing faith in evidence and faith in that which cannot be seen. Huge difference.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is still Faith you cannot differentiate one from the other.
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right on Dave! Faith is Faith no matter what way you look at it!
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mighk add, with out reason and logic.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ********************
  
  To say something you can't prove doesn't exist is not logic.
  
  Those truly seeking to prove something do not form opinions.
  
  I am also speaking of science.
  
  Those who form opinions tend to look only for the things which support their
  own ideas. To be neutral and open is the true scientist.
  
  When something can't be proven and a person still says it can't exist, that is a belief/faith as much as the religious person.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean? Who is asking for proof?
  premise 1: All sentient beings need to be created. Contradiction: God,though a sentient being, can spontaneously arise.
  Premise 2: Everything should have a beginning. Contradiction: Only organisations, we see, cease to exist, matter does not. To assume a beginning we need to explain how a thing can disappear into nothing. So matter and space are eternal.
  Premise 3: Evolution cannot occur. All sentient being that need to take decision has to have contingent matter to form the decision making mechanism, so matter has to pre-exist and from premise 1, then we have no other choice but accept evolution and hence premise 3 is false.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *********************************
  
  Your premises are incorrect, because you cannot come to a logical conclusion with them.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those are not my premises, those are the premises made by "believers", I just showed how their premise and conclusion contradict.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ********************
  
  Your premises in the structure of the argument (not what you believe)
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lets Tate just one,
  "All sentient beings need be created"
  This is a believers premise.
  If the premise is false, there is no need of a creator.
  If it is true, then god being a sentient being, should be created.
  Here the believer says god is not created.
  Now what I said is their own premise is contradicted.
  I don't have any believes nor I put forward any premise.
  If you can logically clear that contradiction, lets see.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *********************
  
  I can't clear them, they are not logical premises. I don't believe that way either.
  
  I wasn't saying you believe anything.
  I was saying the premises you presented are not logical therefore a logical conclusion cannot be reached.
  
  You remember these?
  
  If the two premises don’t gel you get an erroneous conclusion.
  
  Illogical Conclusion
  Major Premise: Tom has facial hair.
  Minor Premise: All men have facial hair.
  
  Conclusion: Therefore, Aristotle is a man. (Tell me why it's not logical)
  
  Logical Conclusion
  Major Premise: Tom is a man.
  Minor premise – All men have facial hair. (assuming this is true)
  
  Conclusion-Tom has facial hair. (Tell me why it's logical)
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then that should answer your first question, god doesn not exist not because of the absence of proof, but because the absence of any logical and rational explanation for "god." The term 'god' carry no meaning that can be based on reality.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  **************
  
  That's illogical. Proof having not been found, does not mean he does not exist.
  .
  But neither was some of the planets. (found)
  
  I updated my last post with some premises
  
  Illogical Conclusion
  Major premise: I do not believe in God
  
  Minor Premise: There is no proof God exists
  
  Conclusion: There is no God
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You again misunderstood me.
  Proof has nothing to do with God's existence.
  Proof is a subjective interpretation of fact.
  I never said there is "no proof for god".
  What I said is the term "god" has no logical or rational meaning.
  Do we debate whether 'abracadabra' exist? That is because it is a meaningless term that conveys no idea, 'god' is just the same.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ************
  
  What's your problem? I was showing you correct premises.
  
  You did too say God does not exist because of NO logical and rational explanation
  
  That is still a faulty conclusion.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I did say god does not exist because these is no logic or reason for his existence, NOT no proof for his existence.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ******************
  
  I just stated that.
  But it is still an erroneous conclusion
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Its an erroneous conclusion if those are the premises.
  My conclusion is not based on that, as I explained.
  I can show you how I reached my conclusion, all you have to do is tell me what is "god".
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ******************
  
  If I knew that I'd have proof of God now wouldn't I?
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your premises are wrong, and the conclusion has no relevance to the premises.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ************
  
  Which premises are wrong? Point them out.
  
  It doesn't matter what subject we are speaking of, we have to use correct premises to get a correct conclusion.
  
  That's fact and not my idea.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The major premise "I do not believe in god". When expanded correctly it means "I do not believe in people who say there is god".
  What has belief got to do with existence? The sun exist whether you believe it or not.
  And you are yet to tell me what god is!
  Minor premise is also wrong, as that too is subjective.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  **************
  
  You better read again. I did answer that question. I won't rewrite it.
  Do some work. Scroll and read.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ******************
  
  You do not believe in people? LOL
  They do exist
  
  Objective and subjective has no influence on premises
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  now your arguments border on nonsense.
  I believe/not believe what people say.
  People exist whether I believe them or not.
  Understand the difference.
  You do not know what god is, then how can you say whether it exist or not. How can you tell anybody what you are trying to say when you use the word "god"?
  If I say, You cannot say "irlall" doesn exist, what do you understand?
  If you do not know what "god" is the point in arguing it might exist, at the minimum you should know whether it is a concept or object!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *****************************
  
  Then use correct grammar. You are the one who said it.
  
  I quote you. "The major premise "I do not believe in god". When expanded correctly it means "I do not believe in people who say there is god"."
  
  That says you do not believe in people.
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/93252?p … ost1993177
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I: I do not believe in those people who say god exist.
  It means I have no confidence in those people to accept what they say as true.
  In your place, does it mean, those people do not exist?
  For belief is the confidence we have in a statement to take it as true.
  Existence does not need confidence.
  In your earlier example, will those planets cease to exist because you lack the confidence to say they exist?
  "i believe god" literally means i believe what god said is true. You do not even know what god is, let alone whether he/it can talk.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *********
  
  In your mind you may feel that's what you were saying., but in writings it was not.
  I can't read your mind.
  
  I will not comment again to your posts,
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Neither will I, till you can identify the meaning of words and use it consistently.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ***********************
  
  He is a being. not it or object.
  
  You didn't ask that. You asked what he is.
  
  You need to learn English and word meanings
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  An object is that which exist, and concept that which do not.
  Whether it is "a being" or "it", its an object.
  Object = that which got shape = that has physical presence
  
  "You didn't ask that. You asked what he is"
  I did ask what you mean by god. You said you had no idea.
  
  "You need to learn English and word meanings"
  Looks like it is more applicable to you.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *****************
  
  You stated God does not exist. That is a belief since it can't be proven..so therefore you do not believe in God.
  
  Correct premise.
  
  You said God does not exist because there is no logical reasoning
  
  Premise is correct.
  
  I don't think you know how to think logically.
  You don't even know what it is you say.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Regarding your premise.
  'I do not believe in god'
  I cannot believe in god because i do not know what he said. What the premise means is I do not believe in people who say god exist.
  "there is no proof of god"
  proofs have nothing to do with existence. Existence exist irrespective of proof, like you said, planets were there even before their discovery. We agree on this.
  Conclusion. My conclusion is not based on either of these premise.
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  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are 3 types of faith. Faith 1. (visual) If you you place your bare hand on a hot burner, you will burn yourself. Faith 2. (pedictable - mathmatics and science) If there are three chairs a room and two are removed, there will be one left. Faith 3 (hope - religion) I have faith that I'll go to heaven.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  (((((((((
  
  How does that relate to my post?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The dictionary wouldn't agree with you on that one. There are two different definitions of faith and they are both easily understandable.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have to agree with you on this one, Troubled. It's like the food reference above. You have faith you're going to eat tonight because you know the food will be there when you get home. Faith in the unknown or unseen is very different, IMO, and as Jomine said, can be seemingly without reason or logic.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Faith and Hope are a part of every person. Every person hopes that the day will go without problems. Every person has faith that the next day will arrive, that their abilities will meet the standards expected.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good point. It's been said that Hope is the human spirit.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A starving child can hope all day, it doesn't put food on the table, the child has to want to eat and do something about it. This is to say that the child was able to reason on their own, something following blindly will not cure. The poor sit down on the pews starving, while the preacher has his fill.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet, all it has ever caused is conflict and wars, Dave. That would go against his teachings of peace.
  
  Did it ever occur to you that perhaps Jesus was wrong about evangelizing?
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Evangelizing has never caused a fight or a war. The refusal to be open to another person's ideas might.
  
  I may never believe in your way of seeing things, but I will defend with my life your right to believe as you do.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What of the civilizing of savages? The Christian attitude is to make believers of nonbelievers, regardless if they want it or need it. Entirely unique and beautiful cultures were destroyed by christianity and religions of the like. The differences in point of view and the vying for of power, have ruined the face of humanity, in ways that can never be repared.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Baloney. No one is forced to do it. I'm not talking about Crusade wars or Jihads. I'm talking about natives and their beliefs. They can go back to their old ways just like you did. I'm just saying. You can't blame someone for trying to convince someone else to believe what they do. I'm not saying Christianity is the right way or the wrong way. All I'm saying is that with all the forums you post about the Tao, with the addendum to think for oneself, isn't that the same thing? Trying to open people's eyes to a way of thinking?
  
  Nothing personal, mm
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not at all, the views of one will always differ from another, regardless if the belief is the same. What I'm pointing out is mindfulness, the abillity to judge the self before others, the drive to love without being told how. A child loves the parent, that was not a teaching, it was an imparative. Just as loving the self is important, so is accepting one's position. Attitude then, has everything to do with the social thermometer and little to do with belief.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Let's say we are to agree to disagree with that even though history is replete with many examples.
  
  Instead, let's say that Jesus wanted others to spread his word because back then no one was aware of them other than a small group of people. Well, that's been accomplished. His word is everywhere and the Bible is easier to access than a dictionary pretty much anywhere in the world by billions of people. One need just go into a hotel room and find a copy there.
  
  Since, the Bible is easily accessible, anyone can read it anytime they wish, which is not something that was found in the time of Jesus. There is no reason to continue that mission and Jesus would probably agree that His mission was indeed accomplished. It's like that with the Quran or any other holy book, all are easily accessible today.
  
  Hence, there is no reason to continue evangelizing. Wouldn't you agree, Dave?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really? This is amazing stuff
  sound of the buzzer though
  
  Anyone can read the bible, anyone can read war and peace, anyone can read time magazine etc. But people need a reason to read any book or magazine and this is why people evangelize. This is why when God prompts to say something about Him - we do. God wants to get personal in peoples lives, rarely does a person become christian just by picking up a bible without some previous relevant conversation.
  The formula for salvation you also overlook.
  People have questions and like yourself they don't just pick up a bible and have them all answered.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That makes absolutely no sense at all. Do people evangelize War and Peace or Time magazine?
  
  And, your God can be as personal as you wish him to be, but that does not equate to going out and telling others to do the same thing.
  
  Usually, they are born into a Christian family, that is why they become Christians.
  
  If people have questions, they are free to ask, but again, that does not equate to you going out and forcing them to hear answers they didn't ask to hear.
  
  Do you understand?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i never understand what you rant about. Its all just your opinion propelled by the obvious anti-god propellants.
  
  Do people evangelize War and Peace or Time magazine?
  Do they have to? Stick to the post please, evangelizing war and peace was not the point, reading it was. Your post was all about how reading will make a difference and i said (to paraphrase) no it won't. So don't drag the discussion into fields where it need not go just to type something that seems derogatory.
  
  And, your God can be as personal as you wish him to be, but that does not equate to going out and telling others to do the same thing.
  Let me turn this around on you and i hope you can get a good laugh at this.
  YOUR non-god belief can be a truthful as you want it to be but that does not equate to stomping all over hub pages and ranting about it.
  Hope you enjoyed that as much as i did.
  
  Usually, they are born into a Christian family, that is why they become Christians.
  Hard to refute a usually lol but have you thought about those who don't fit into your usually category.. have you thought about those who come to christ in their 40's 50's, 30's, 20's. I am sure you will not quite get the picture here. What about muslims who convert to christianity? What about jews who have accepted messiah.. what about and what about... why bother hub pages servers with menial contrivances like this.
  
  ...going out and forcing them to hear answers they didn't ask to hear.
  The word i would like to debate about is force.
  Do you force your beliefs on us?
  your turn
  and as usual have a nice day
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's easily explained.
  
  Can "anti-god propellants" be fired from a bazooka?
  
  No, it was all about evangelizing, not reading.
  
  I never said that. An understanding issue, again.
  
  Not really, it was puerile, elementary and irrelevant.
  
  Statistics show that only a very tiny portion of the population converts to Christianity and it usually has nothing to do with evangelism. Often, it is those who were already Christian at one point in their lives and decided to get serious about it later in life.
  
  I have no beliefs to force. I simply deal in realities and understanding, which appear quite foreign to you.
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  MissPatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To say follow the teachings of Jesus and disregard everththing else is nonsense. We either believe the WHOLE Bible or not at all. Paul said woe is me if I don't Preach tje gps[e;. Not preach on heaven or hell??? hm-m-m-m something wrong with that picture. Jesus' message was "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand". We should obey God rather than man. If someone is truly born again they will want to share God's Word with others -- The Truth, The Whole Truth, Nothing But The Truth!!!
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God's word as interpreted by man. The only God that exists is the God you choose for yourself. It exists as a facet of the mind and is unique to the creator; the self. We create our own fantasies and no matter how hard we try, we will never see things exactly as that of another. We see things with our lonely little brain and we believe we are right by it, don't trust the brain.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @mm - With one caveat - IMO we are a piece of god and have the potential to be god when we can all come together as one.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A piece is but a part of the whole, only percieved as different.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've always had a problem with the religious claim of truth. The truth is.....it's your opinion, and a less than courteous one. Claims of truth are outside of the bounds, especially if that claim seeks to damn the souls of others.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. Yet no matter what you say, the religion has them by the brain. They trust the illusion the brain is creating and their so convinced by it, it's become litteraly true for them. They are not able to separate actual reality from that of the illusory, hence appearing unable to live their own lives without fear and false hope.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't be able to agree with you on that one. It varies individual to individual and is determined by the way they apply it to their lives. Religion is like everything else created to make you feel good. It should be done in moderation, if not at all.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not talking about the rational few, I'm talking about the insane bible thumping, heathen damning, soul soliciting majority. They call it a pilgrimage, I call it civilizing the civilized.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those aren't the majority. They are the vocal minority. Unless you happen to live in a backwater town. Don't take everything you read on the internet and assume those voices speak for the majority of that sect, or religion.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have met many an enlightened christian, they usually keep the teaching to themselve's. I could understand someone approaching and asking questions, but to outright preach on a street corner seems, well... crazy.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've never seen a street corner preacher, but now that you mention it...I guess that is a good description of the crazy evangelists here on Hub Pages.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  John the baptist, Jesus, Peter, James, John, Paul, and many many others were all "street preachers" . he told them go out to the streets and proclaim my message, it was a commandment. So not so crazy if our own Lord did so.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is not the way to live a real tue Christian life. No Man can live a Christian Life. Only one man ever did live the Christian Life and this man was God Himself walking this earth in the form of a human being to show us and be an example of what we should do to become Christians. His name is Jesus the Christ. He is the only person to have ever lived a Christian Life and this is the purpose of being born again. When you are born again then that same spirit that was in Jesus Christ and lived that Christian Life will come into your heart and then and only then will you begin to change and live a real true Christian Life. if you have not His Spirit then you are not His and you will never ever live a Christian Life. This is why it is repeated over and over again that you must die! Die to yourself, your own thoughts and your own opinions etc. You cannot be born again unless the You that you are is dead, your will, your thoughts, your desires, all of you must be done away with. This is proof that you cannot live a Christian Life, for before you can even become a Christian you must first die! Then you can be re born, but this time it will not be you living but Christ! All of "those" other silly gobblegook things in the Bible, you best give the more earnest heed too, for God had them written to help you and show you the way to eternal life.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll say this again... All life and the entirity of the universe is God, to separate the creator from the creation, is like saying your kids aren't yours. It's all one thing or it's nothing at all, we just see it in different parts and assume it's separate.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I believe this as well. However the only thing God does not have is "YOU" your own sovereignty does not belong to God but you, you must relinquish that to Him, then He is all in all.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the buddhist tradition, one must surrender their grasp on their attachments. The same can be said of christianity, but buddhism still has the self to deal with, we all do. If you believe there is a God, it must be a natural function of the whole or it makes no sense. To assume that there is a God and it's only accessible by the few, is assuming that none can attain it. If I am of God, then God is most certainly of me. If it is only my interpretation, then it is only my God and can belong to none.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of real Christianity, Jesus said, You must die and then you can be born again and only then will you be a real Christian. Self must die and be done away with. it is not for just the "few" as you have said, God has made it available to all, but he said "Few" there would be that would find it! Not that everyone would find it, but that it would be made available as an opportunity for all to seek it, but not everyone who seeks finds, because the more you get into the Bible it says you must die and most people do not want to die to be born again, plain and simple.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I've been down this road before and have had the same discussion 1,000 times over, it still sounds very closed minded. Christian religions are not the only ones pointing in a direction, if it applies to one, it must apply to all. This is to say that if God were available to only those that accept, then it is open to none. While there are many paths, they are only obscure to the outsider. Seems petty...
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  1000 times over sounds like you do not get it. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. Plain and Simple. have you ever stopped to ask yourself why you have no problem finding God in other religions but when it comes to Christianity, or rather through Jesus that for some reason you just have a problem with it? maybe it is because the devil does not want you to see it or else he will be forced to flee from you and your eyes come open to the way, truth and life that is inside the wonderful shepherd Jesus Christ. amen!
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God does not exist, but only by the believer. If I chose to believe that I was separate from God, then I most certainly would be. If I choose to be part of my God, then I am. To say that I can't find my God, then you are not seeing my words, only the answer running ad-infinitum. For there to be only one path, there has to be only one person...
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Also do not count every one who names the name of Christ as Christians, the same way all who have learned Kung Fu are not japanese or Korean etc? There are many in China who practise Kung Fu and Karate as a way of life and do not treat USA karate as nothing but a mockery of their way of life. There are real true Christians in this world and not just people in a religious system but have the very God Himself walking inside of their flesh beholding the good and evil.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By God, do you mean perception or sky fairy? When I say God, I'm talking about the whole of existence and the observer of the self. I don't believe that there are true christians, if there is but one, there are many. Just because there are separate sects, does not mean that one is any more right than another. By that note, all religions are the same in this manner. They all have a conclusion and their all pretty much the same, an escape from the suffering of life...
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  By God, I mean The only God that there is! he who inhabits eternity and fills all in all! God cannot observe self, for if His omnipotent presence came near your "self" it would obliterate you in a moment and you would seek to exist. There is but one escape from the suffering of life, you must be born again!
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My God's better than your's... Is that what your trying to say? Because it doesn't affect me in the least. It's all the same thing, it just has a different name than what you were raised with. I can say my way is better until my face turns blue, it doesn't make right.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God exist whether you believe in Him or not, it is that He does not exist to you.. if there was no more humanity or Earth, God would still exist. No it is not a matter of my God is better than yours, there is but One God.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God exist, but only the humans who open the eye of faith can see Him.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry but your wrong. There is not one true God, especially since there were religions predating chritianity by thousands of years. They were oral traditions, some of which still exist today. The aboriginies of Australia for instance, still practice oral traditions, some dating back 20'000 years or more. You can't debate the existance of something you can't prove, so get on with the piety and have a logical discourse or your in way over your head.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really, you're both saying the same thing, in essence with one small difference. Anyone can be a believer and die to self. By dying to self we open up the doors to infinity. Both Christians and Buddhist believe this, in different words. God, repentence, sin or indiscretion, world knowledge, spirit knowledge, all of it is the same but in different words. The small difference is this: One is born again to a new self by saying I repent and accept Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, shedding the ways of the world and receiving the Holy Spirit while the other is born again by shedding the ways of the world and accepting that their is the Godhead within him, thereby experiencing the Spirit of the Holy.
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HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years ago
faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Note that these two definitions are not the same, Dave. Even Hattie has provided that for you.
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well glad I could help out! lol Never thought you would be referring to my comments! lol
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You did what should have been done, that of using the dictionary to distinguish the differences in those two types of faith. Well done.
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Trouble! Good to hear!
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HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years ago
6 different definitions here of faith!
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HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years ago
faith
Listen See in ThesaurusSee in a sentence

noun

1.unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence
2.unquestioning belief in God, religious tenets, etc.
3.a religion or a system of religious beliefs
4.anything believed
5.complete trust, confidence, or reliance
6.allegiance to some person or thing; loyalty
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HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years ago
I'm just going by what the dictionary and Thesaurus says! We all use it!
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HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years ago
I agree Dave, if you didn't have some kind of hope or faith in those times when life gets hard no matter who you are, it would be hard to function in life. We even hope their is a tomorrow. Like what if the Sun never came up again, you would be hoping after awhile it would because it would be dark and cold all the time.
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HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years ago
This subject is being run into the ground, and just like politicians today, no one wants to give. Each side is right 100% and then they turn a blind eye. Greg

Have to agree with this!
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WretchedRaptureposted 12 years ago
I believe that troubled has a good point, somewhat. Whether you actually believe in God or not, the Bible teaches some very basic, yet very important, morals and ethics(as do all of the other major religions of the world). Some individuals may find that religious faith helps them get through their lives, while others see religious faith as completely absurd. One should always keep in mind that religion is a very personal experience, meaning something different to each individual, but at the very least, one should acknowledge that religion is a great tool within society that helps to teach some basic ethical and moral guidelines. Perhaps this is what Troubled was getting at, but either way, great post. Its nice to shake things up a bit and get peoples minds going. :]
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  HattieMattieMaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Have to agree with you Wretched!
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mischeviousmeposted 12 years ago
"We've got to make them christian before they figure out that we're full of it". When they figured out that they couldn't be civilized via diplomacy, they resorted to force. Then they said it was for their own good, yet nothing truly good has ever come of it.
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Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years ago
There is but one true God who inhabits eternity and fills all in all.
He revealed Himself and His Plan to Moses from before the beginning of the World and revealed it to Moses and walked the Earth behind the veil of the flesh of Moses as well as others, always revealing Himself and the order of Life to us all. Then He personified Himself in Jesus Christ and concluded all in Sin and Unbelief! I mean who put the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden and "allowed" mankind to partake of it, so He could fall and have the need of a Savior, but God. Then God veiled in Jesus Christ came in that human form and paid for ALL the Sins that God Himself ever even "allowed" to begin with! See He allowed Sin to come into existence and then did not charge man with that sin, but came and paid for all of those sins in His own Body, not charging man with it. This was for a great divine purpose and that was How could God reveal Himself in all of His glory and perfection unless He start mankind off as little children, give him a choice and a sovereignty as a free being then reveal to him his fallen state and show him the plan for his redemption so that that fallen man can see a true and living God. For if not man would have been robbed of the joy of having wisdom, but never knowing he had wisdom, to experience life, how could he unless he feels the pains of death. Amen!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That is exactly the kind of nonsense and gobbledegook we don't need in Christianity, nothing but worthless mumbo-jumbo that has no value for anyone.
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  Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Words of Eternal Life are not mumbo jumbo, If God did not want His Word read from beginning to end He would not have spoken it and commanded it to be written and sent to the churches. man that good book that we are so blessed to read today, though through many transitions, it was paid for by the blood of precious wonderful saints of God, how dare you be so light hearted over it and esteem it as you do? it is like we do not need a flag anymore I mean everyone knows we are America and why don't we just spit on that flag because it ain't all that anymore anyway people know we are americans, I mean who doesn't. You are just a very ignorant person when it comes to what you speak about and because you simply do not understand the Bible at all, you count it as such. I mean you are def a troubled man and the reason for it is because you are angering God telling people we really do not need the Bible and by doing so you are directly hindering the work He established and you are going to get in trouble with God if you do not stop your nonsense and gobbledegook.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Precisely, which is why that nonsense is of no value to anyone and only causes bloodshed.
  
  Yes, I do understand it.
  
  Baloney, it is you who is angering people by spreading nonsense and lies rather than trying to live your life by the morals and ethics Jesus was trying to convey.
  
  Your invisible God has no power over me. Deal with it.
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  MissPatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Amen Shining Star -- this scriputre comes to mind II Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
  
  People who say that it's all goobledegook - are in sin and cannot understand spiritual matters. They are blind to the truth. If they do not repent now - it will face them at the judgment. What's the sense of living the way Jesus said if we don't accept every thing He did and taught. Eat the whole roll. Father I ask you to cause an extreme circumstance to happen in Troubled Man's life to get him to know you are real and call on You for Mercy. In Jesus Name, Amen
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your ridiculous judgments from an impotent God are pointless and only serve to cause conflict. That is exactly what needs to be eradicated from Christianity.
  
  Your invisible God has no power and is not listening to you. However, I await that "extreme circumstance" and await your God, although that will never happen.
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  MissPatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not here to argue but to guide you to see the truth. Found this interesting quote:
  
  Blaise Pascal was well-known for his famous "Wager of Pascal":
  
  "How can anyone lose who chooses to become a Christian? If, when he dies, there turns out to be no God and his faith was in vain, he has lost nothing - in fact, he has been happier in life than his nonbelieving friends. If, however, there is a God and a heaven and hell, then he has gained heaven and his skeptical friends will have lost everything in hell!" - -- Just some food for thought
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt such a namby pamby approach to faith would be well received on another plane.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Suppose the god is Allah or any from another religion? You condition will be, as if you are an atheist!
  Also if there is no god how much money and time you waste in the name of god.
  May be the Jewish one may be the better bet still, he is the most jealous and cruel one!
  Just some food for thought!
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  MissPatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Heavenly Father, Have Mercy on these souls. Open their eyes to the truth - Thou Art God and besides you there is no other. In Jesus Name, Amen
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Heavenly Enuch, Have Mercy on these souls. Open their eyes to the truth - Thou Art God and besides you there is no other. In warthogs Name, Amen
  
  What happens to the wager then?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't require your guidance to believe in nonsense, thank you very much.
  
  Pascals wager has been done to death and has been shown to be irrelevant. In fact, it has been shown to be quite the contrary in the fact that believers have caused a great deal of harm to the world in their zeal to believe.
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  MissPatposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your name a troubled man suits you very well. i have unsubscribed from hubs -this will be my last post -- I pray you will find grace and mercy with your creator Jehovah God before it's too late. Ready or Not Jesus IS Coming - time is winding down - God is shutting the door. There is no God - but Jehovah!!!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One last shot?
  
  Thanks for stopping by and showing what Christianity should not be about.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Another psychotic !!!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Pascals wager only speaks of after death.
  
  But what about before death. Here the pascal truly loses out because not knowing the goodness of God before death is a great loss.
  So out of those who know God and are alive, few say it is a waste of time and to those around who benefit from knowing christian people - and there are a lot of them - they would never equate pascals wager as something to live by.
  It is a fools wager all the way around
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Shining - I'm really never one to criticize anyone's belief systems but the bit about God intentionally planting the seed of sin just so he could send a saviour to do away with it...Really?
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MickeySrposted 12 years ago
"Just live by the moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and forget the other nonsense about gods . . . "

I have a university text on ethics by Johnathan Edwards and in the preface a professor asserts the same kind of silliness, suggesting that Edwards was brilliant and his ideas profound and his work on ethics unsurpassed - but just ignore all that garbage about God and the Bible, etc, it's all meaningless and has nothing to do with Edwards' ethic . . !? You cannot divorce Jesus' teaching from or even assert there is any worth to His teaching apart from His knowledge and revelation of God - to say that kindness and love and humility, etc, can stand as an a sterile secular ethic apart from knowing God and separated from a condemnation of sin is ludicrous and is actually what is behind the misery many try to blame on our ('narrow & outdated')Puritan ethic.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Having read through the standard holier than thou Christian post you have there...I wonder if you'd also agree that it would be difficult to separate self righteous bs from Christianity?
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  MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I own no sense that I am "holier than thou" and I'm sorry if i presented myself in a manner that suggest otherwise - though, when you preface your accusation with "the standard" holier than thou Christian it wonder if you would not have found me "holier than thou" no matter what I said . . . as in, you expect it, you see it regardless of what is actually present.
  
  Emile, I don't suspect that atheists/agnostics, skeptics, non-believers, etc, are less intelligent, not as decent, emotionally injured, etc, I try to take everyone as I find them and expect i can learn from all - again, if I present myself otherwise in is a weakness of communication and I regret that.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Human language is as fallable as the one speaking, the words of one are for the one, another must accept them as they are; a point of view. When one regurgitates the words of another, then the view is not their own, hence negating any sense of true self. Then it is the primary concern of the regurgitator to uphold the image created in false piety and controlled awareness. It's like putting one's mind in a box, very little room for change.
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  MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Language is as fallible as the language used - the most gifted minds and honest souls are still restricted in their expression of their ideas and sincerity by the capacity of the words available to carry their meaning . . . and in a forum such as this, void of tone and manner, there is an even greater restriction. Certainly some own a greater utility with language than others (vocabulary, etc) but, it seems to me, if you don't count language limiting then you must have small and inconsequential ideas (I'm not suggesting you personally, but 'you' as in whoever . . . see what I mean).
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes... I was taught to speak for myself, though I know my words are for me, I share them regardless. It is my affinity, I cannot say not to spaek as one does, they just will. But speaking from one's unique view is to love the self, not lending one's own mind to the primary agenda of another. I don't want followers, only a synthesis of communication in it's truest form; from one to another, a conversation...
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone has gotten their doctrines/beliefs from someone else, from the atheist to the religious, all beliefs are learned and those that say their beliefs are not learned just haven't recognized the source of their indoctrination yet and may never. Even if they have in part heard anothers belief in some part it is adopted and perhaps personalized but no beliefs are as original enough to be thought up completely without outside influence. If a darwinist, buddhist, new age spiritualist, jungist, communist, democrate, father, mother, rebellious kid - its all influence from somewhere, something, somebody else.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  **************************
  
  The all-knowing Mr. Yummy.
  
  Your friend Paul lied than. He said he got it from no one.
  
  You are wrong in this.
  Some people get it through experience and revelation.
  That's what the H.S. is for.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In context.
  We get our beliefs from God, a book, a teacher in a church.
  the world get their beliefs from someone, thing, else.
  
  Pauls revelation came from God as christian revelation should.
  The "it" you refer to is what exactly? Is it revelation in a field they are already in?, is it experience about a car accident? Do not some people take classes on being parents? Do not pregnant women read a book on pregnacy and attend classes?
  What is this "it" that needs none of those things?
  
  and i am yummy aren't I but that time has passed for me and my opinion is quite different these days Although you do look nice, is that your real hair color? If not, why?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, we know you don't understand anything and only believe, but projecting your lack of understanding onto others does not preclude their understanding.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  yes we know you don't understand anything and only believe, but projecting your lack of understanding onto others does not preclude their understanding.
  
  But keep reading!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The statement still stands, evidently.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I never expect it. Even if it does present itself over and over again. Hopes springs eternal.
  
  To state that man does not possess the ability for love, kindness, humility, etc; without accepting the premise of your God stands in defiance of what I perceive to be obvious facts. I do firmly believe that Jesus taught these things. But I also believe that these ideals are shared by the lion's share of humanity. Christ taught a simple message that doesn't require a belief in the Judeo Christian religions. All it requires is accepting your true place. One tiny part of the whole.
  
  Everyone argues about the true essence of God. You think he is separate, and I'm sure people tell you it's all in your head. Some people say god is them. Some people say there is no God which means they are all the god they have. So basically everyone loves god, or God, or whatever the concept is to them. Whatever they think in their head. Do you know what that means? Everyone follows the first of the two commandments Jesus spoke of. The whole world loves their idea of what God/god is.
  
  The problem is that Christianity forgot the second commandment. Love your neighbor as yourself. And when they forgot that, they became no better than every other stab at religion. Because it's easy to love what's in your head. The hard part...well, why work on the hard part when the first is so easy?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Again, that is exactly the kind of head-buried-in-the-sand garbage that only causes conflict and shows a complete denial of reality.
  
  No one needs your invisible God to show love and kindness. Quite the contrary, in fact.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Like you do all the time
  I appreciate your humanistic love and kindness in all your posts.
  How far from Jesus do you think it really is?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *****************
  
  When have you shown love? All I see you do is put people down with a condescending attitude. You appear rebellious and arrogant, full of lust and for some reason conceit.
  
  Why are you condemning everyone else when you do the same things you accuse others of?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  nice love
  
  again i think your perspective could use some adjustment. I just answer the questions and move on. I try to be succinct, adding those lovey words would really, and i mean this is all tenderness, make the posts extremely long.
  
  Do i condemn? Or this out of context again.
  Do i do things that i accuse others of - I assume there is a list.
  Do i appear rebellious?
  Do i appear arrogant
  Do i appear full of lust
  Do i appear conceited
  
  I would consider your assessment/judgment of me but i know how you interpret things, so i am so agape' sorry that you are unable to come to a better conclusion about me and other things.
  
  is this not close to libel?
  Should i ask you to support each claim
  
  No deborah, I will only hope that one day you find the freedom from legalism and mysticism, that is in christ jesus.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ******************
  
  No it's not libel.
  I said It APPEARS to me. I did not state it as fact or to hurt your reputation.
  
  Saying bad things about someone who just died, is not very nice. Many agreed on this.
  
  Saying I am a witch and sorceress over and over, is libel.
  
  Read up on it.
  
  No, I will never be your religion or believe what you do.
  
  Don't worry about it.
  
  See, even here, you are saying I don't know God. Such judgment.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  assessment... judgment means to cast a verdict. To say a person does not know God is an assessment. A judgment would be to add: and that person is going to suffer such and such. do you see the difference?
  It is as many have stated; there is a difference between calling it as you see it plus a penalty, and just calling it as you see it, period (assessment). Christians are allowed to call it as they see it and even say it is wrong but never to add a judgment or penalty - that belongs to God alone. So no judgment.
  But a person can't know God and be so very out of context = assessment
  A person can be so very out of context and wrong = assessment
  You will receive this and that because of wrong context = judgment.
  
  "its not very nice".. oh well... it was very truthful.
  
  You won't find where i called you a witch, you will only find where i defined the word according to biblical definition. Calling you a witch blatantly was someone else's words.
  
  as to the what you think appears... I would not even mention what appears to me about you but my statement stands.
  I hope one day you find liberty in Christ Jesus.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Should I copy and paste your words to Earnest once again?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And you
  can do what you want because i have extra kleenex if you need to borrow some.
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brotheryochananposted 12 years ago
There is a biblical faith which brings the promises of God for the future into the now and its the biblical kind of faith that is necessary to believe in God.
Whether i have faith that the light bulb will glow when i flick the switch is neither helpful in the things of God nor is God interested in that kind of faith.

We need to understand that the things of God are pertinent to God and as God has shown throughout the bible, the way this world works is opposite to the way God works. Our natural ways are not the ways of God.

To whitewash christianity and say, oh just skim it over and get the gist of it all and be happy with a standard that mankind promotes, is not what God wants.
God wants to be active in a persons life, he wants to mold each one to his plan for us and he can't do that if there is apathy and unconcern for what Jesus actually is all about, which is something you do not come to understand just by downplaying his words.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's an odd statement, coming from you, since you clearly stated in another thread that Paul's words take precedence over the words of Jesus. You are clearly downplaying. Don't you think?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  nope.
  Jesus is the door to both the gentiles and the Jews.
  Once stepping through the door of Jesus we can accept what Paul says.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ********************
  
  Not so, when I was in the Christian church, is when I saw Paul taught differently than Yahshua, and that he was a liar
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It IS so
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So what? Flicking a light switch is helpful for us to see in the dark.
  
  So what? We need "our natural ways" because we live with and in "Nature"
  
  That is exactly the garbage we don't need.
  
  Sure, tell that to the tens of thousands who die of starvation everyday while you eat.
  
  And, if you actually knew anything about what Jesus was all about, you would never say those things and many other things you've said here.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Replying to you is very wasteful because,
  You carry your anger like a torch = assessment.
  
  You don't eat?
  
  Saying and knowing are not the same thing. Your perception and reality are often not the same thing either = assessment.
  Keep reading though!
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And what do you know? Is it something we haven't heard before? If not, you are doing exactly the same. You say... but what do you know?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, this is me being angry at your posts --->
  
  I have not seeing any inkling of reality in your posts so what is it you are comparing?
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Deborah Sextonposted 12 years ago
Okay

llogical Conclusion
Major premise: I do not believe in God

Minor Premise: There is no logical reasoning for a God

Conclusion: There is no God

Still a wrong conclusion
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
brotheryochanan wrote:
Everyone has gotten their doctrines/beliefs from someone else, from the atheist to the religious, all beliefs are learned and those that say their beliefs are not learned just haven't recognized the source of their indoctrination yet and may never. Even if they have in part heard anothers belief in some part it is adopted and perhaps personalized but no beliefs are as original enough to be thought up completely without outside influence. If a darwinist, buddhist, new age spiritualist, jungist, communist, democrate, father, mother, rebellious kid - its all influence from somewhere, something, somebody else.
**************************

ME

You are partialy correct. And completely wrong.

There are plenty of Atheists who were devoted believers in their youth and yes they were indoctrinated into it.

I would guess that a Majority of them were so turned off by "Religion" with their many denominations which condems other denominations, Not living what they preach.

And there are many Believers who have taken the time to study ; I mean really study the scriptures, and their faith in God became stronger while turning away from "Denominational Religion".

I do not know of any Christian denomination which are not, in reality, following the teachings of Paul instead of Christ.

I agree with everything that Debra has been saying on this issue.

Debra, No Offense intended when I say; I think that you are only scratching the surface.
Everyone on here that knows anything about me knows what I'm talking about.

The biggest lie which organized religion has ever told is that Jesus "Must have meant something else" when he said "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled"

So they built a religion on that "something else", that he "must have intended to say" instead of what he said.
That gave rise to the (false) necesity to interpret scripture so as to fool ourselves into believing a false doctrine.

I have been wondering, how many people have faith in God, though they have little if any faith in religion.

According to religion, are they going to hell? I don't think so!

We should ask ourselves; Is our faith in God, or is our faith in our particular religion. This is why some people might be suprised when they/we get to the other side.

If this post isn't my last post? I don't think it is far from it.

Good luck Debra .... and, May God Beless every single one of you-ALL
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are such a gentleman jerami. And I think you have made an important point. One thing that nagged at me over and over when I was a kid was that statement in the gospels. No one could reasonably explain how that statement wasn't a lie. And, if the statement was false, where did that leave the claims of who Jesus was? If a prophet can't lie, surely the son couldn't either.
  
  Yours is about the only way to explain it, where it makes sense. Which makes the house of cards the church is built on tumble down.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ************************
  
  Maybe by generation, it was something different. Maybe it was the generation of the Holy Ghost.
  
  Hebrews have always believed in reincarnation and maybe he meant that.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That’s an interesting starting point. I’ve heard it argued that the text doesn’t support the idea of reincarnation; but I have always had my doubts about that. And, your statement about this generation being in reference to the generation of the Holy Ghost makes sense also.
  
  The problem I’ve always eventually run across with religious arguments was one of two things.
  
  A particular interpretation makes sense, to a point. Then it makes a hard left turn and I have to step away and regroup. What we think a text might mean has to line up with reality. I can’t support ideas that argue mystical powers; because they do not exist. To make such a claim shows ego in need of power. I can’t support an interpretation that puts some groups above others in the eyes of a deity. There is no proof to back up such a claim. Or that ‘God’ is talking to some and not others. That’s an arrogant delusion, in my eyes.
  
  The other problem is that the interpretation appears to make sense, but there is nothing of the spirit in the manner in which those who defend the interpretation conduct themselves. If there was even a piece of the Holy Spirit contained in Yahshua, that spirit showed ultimate patience and wisdom. The actions showed a love of all mankind. Those are the footsteps any religion must find, in order for me to stop and listen. So, if someone claims to know a Christian truth and that truth breeds intolerance and arrogance it can’t be truth; because that is not what we saw in the actions of the one claimed to have the spirit of God.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ******************************
  
  I can show you scripture that does support reincarnation.
  
  It was something the Hebrews, even Yahshua accepted as common knowlegde.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am aware of the part of the text that supports the idea of reincarnation. Hence, my statement in the other post.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  **************
  
  Sorry.
  I saw where yopu said this:
  "I’ve heard it argued that the text doesn’t support the idea of reincarnation; but I have always had my doubts about that."
  
  But I didn't see where you disagreed because there is scripture.
  
  My mistake
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, not your mistake. I wasn't entirely clear.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  this should be good
  lets define reincarnation so we know just exactly what is being talked about here.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes lets overintelectualize even the most simple of statements.
  
  Didn't Jesus warn us of doing just that?
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  asking for a definition is not over-intellectualizing.
  
  jesus doesn't object to good and decent scrutiny. Without a scripture coming to mind, jerami.. i will say... simply... no.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ***************************
  
  The rebirth of a soul in a new body. to pay karmic debts or to grow. (become better)
  
  People who say they was a princess in a past life is usually making this up.
  
  We do not change into animals, though there are some who teach this.
  
  Both types are charlatans
  
  Now I hope you've got the true definition
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The endless process of life and death... A maggot eats the dead, turns into a fly, is eaten by a toad, is eaten by the bird, which dies and is eaten by fungus, which is eaten by pig, which is eaten by us. The cycle is birth and rebirth, but can be seen from many angles, none of which are the same. Your version of reincarnation may differ from that of another, the cycle continues regardless of opinion.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  *****************
  
  At this time we are speaking of Biblical reincarnation.
  It's the one I can show scripture for. Reincarnation is not endless.
  Thanks
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Scripture doesn't make it true, your mind is made up that it is.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ***************
  
  Read over the posts. I said I can show reincarnation in the Bible, not that it exists.
  B.Y. Said before I started, to define the reincarnation that I was showing. Which I did than I said to you "the Biblical reincarnation."
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/93252?p … ost1993505
  
  I won't even start if you are going to argue with me about what I am saying.
  
  In this instance I am going to show what the scriptures say about it, even if it's not true or can't be proven.
  
  The fact is the Hebrews believed it and I am going to show that by giving scripture. I am not trying to prove it exists.
  
  Now are you going to keep arguing? if so I will not give scripture
  
  You should try reading the thread before jumping in, instead of jumping in after reading a couple of words
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not arguing, just stating a point of view. All versions of the truth will vary, hence the percieved disagreement.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ***************
  B.Y. didn't ask for everyone's definition of reincarnation. He asked me to define what I was talking about.
  No, you are arguing that just because it's in the scriptures doesn't prove it.
  
  I thought you wanted to live and let live.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do, just having fun conversing, delving into the depths of my mind.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So go ahead and post the scripture you are referencing. I'd be curious if there is one I missed. Or, start a new thread with it. It should make for an interesting dialogue.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not 100% sure that the cyclical nature of the food chain falls into the category of reincarnation. Unless you have memories of eating grass, or laying eggs.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's just my view on it, as the nature of living is dying. Life cannot exist without death, which is but a prelude to life, etc. etc. etc....
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I understand that, and would be surprised if there was anyone who didn't. However, it is not reincarnation.
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  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But to the ancients, that's how it possibly was percieved. I can only speak from my point of view, so if there is any miscommunication, my sincerest appologies.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'd like to know what scripture you have in mind please, toward the hebrews believing in reincarnation.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i have been here on HP ever since I got here... wanting to talk about this Issue and Nobody wants to discuss this except to simply inform me thay I am wrong; or once in a while a " interesting point of view, But Nobodt wants to examin the concept.
  
  Makes me wonder ?????? Why am I the only one that sees It! Or Am I ?
  
  What IF? ??? ...???
  
  "What if" we are exactly where it is written that we will be?
  
  What "IF" we could only read, without changing everything we read by interpreting everything as "IF" it could mean something else other than .... other that what is written.
  
  Other than what is written.
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Deborah Sextonposted 12 years ago
**************

Depraved
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jomineposted 12 years ago
Idiotic
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schoolgirlforrealposted 12 years ago
All I know, is that I want to follow the example of "good" people who do or did good things like Mother Teresa or Jesus Christ or Abraham Lincoln?

So following Jesus Christ you could consider a religion or just a wise choice. When I go to church as a Christian, Christ believer, I learn about how I can be a better person. that's all.

simple.

for me

I don't get into which church is better, who is better, what's better. I do it for me so I can grow and get rid of my vices, to concentrate on that. To me,
church is more exciting and motivating that reading hubs by a certain atheist who basically says the exact same things as my church does, but without talking about God.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Emile R wrote A particular interpretation makes sense, to a point. Then it makes a hard left turn and I have to step away and regroup.

=====
Exactly ..
Something that "FIRST" got my intrest all stirred up is (Matthew 3:3) This is a Private Conversation between Jesus AND, Peter James, John and Andrew . Why is it such an important issue that it "SPECIFICALLY states" that that this is a "PRIVATE" conversation.

I can picture the five of them up on the Mt of Olivet, with Jesus looking them in their eyes when he says,
"Take heed that no man deceive YOU"'
The Best lies ever told are those times when the truth is adheared to except for that little thing which is added, which makes ALL of the difference.

Who's eyes was Jesus looking into when he said "(v9) "THEN shall they deliver YOU up to be afflicted ...".
When "YE" (YOU) therefore shall see the abomination spoken of by Daniel the prophet..."

Everything that Jesus told these four that would happen to them, ... (in PRIVATE CONVERSATION); he had just told the Pharisee that they were going to do these things to the disiples.
Matthew 23:34
"Wherefore, BEHOLD, I (do) send unto YOU prophets, and wise men, and scribes; some of them YOU shall kill and crucify, and some of them YOU shall scourge in YOUR synagogues, and persecute them from city to city.

Everything that Jesus told the Phasisee that they will do, he told these four disciples that it will be done to them! ... and then it all happened just as Jesus foretold.

This can not be interpreted away ...SSOoooo we have been ignoring it.

While looking these pharisees in the eyes ... Jesus told THEM ... "That upon YOU may come all the rightiois blood shed upon the earth ...".

23:36 Verily I say unto YOU, All these things shall come upon this generation."

What good is it for me to say that I believe Jesus Christ is my Lord and saviour, and I will follow him anywhere, ... BUT ...I don't believe everything that he said, because, there are some things that I like better, how the church interprets them.

The key to understanding scripture is to first understand prophesy.
The key to understanding prophesy is to correctly understand the seventy weeks as described in Daniel C 9.
And Not interpret that which has already been interpreted by God or Gabriel.

Daniel Chapter 9 shows us that 62 weeks in Prophesy IS the same period of time as 568 of our years. There is No mystery to these words of wisdom as given to Daniel, for Gabriel begins with " I have come to give you skill and understanding.."

BUT Church has re-interpreted all of that skill and understanding away, that now it is just a Mystery.

This is SSOoooo hard to explain correctly because Church IS a good thing and a terrible thing all rolled into one.
Good and evil rubbing elbows there on the pews of the church.
This was designed this way ... WE can not separate the wheat from the tares or we are in danger of destroying the wheat.
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