When I was a child, my parent told me that Santa delivered all the goodies that were under the tree. I later found out at school from fellow students that there was no such person. I didn’t tell my parents that I knew better but continued until they understood that I had to know better.
I never told my children the Santa Claus fallacy because I wanted them to trust whatever I said as fact. They never missed the misconception and when they became adults did not tell their children either. Do you think it is helpful or harmful to tell your kids the Santa Claus fallacy? Does it discredit you when they learn the truth behind who has been giving those presents all those years?
Now don't get me wrong. I watch all the Christmas Specials ... I've got them on DVD but its pure entertainment and nothing more. To me its something I enjoyed watching with my kids and even alone but it doesn't substitute the fact that only once a year we feel the homeless should be feed or clothed. If I had the money (which I don't) I would definitely do more. But, I try to keep the Spirit of Love and Joy in my heart all the year long. I don't hide behind sleigh bells.
I have thoroughly enjoyed each and every comment that has transpired this evening. You are all wonderful people and I totally wish you the best and as Ebenezer Scrooge so eloquently put it:
"You celebrate Christmas your way and let me celebrate it mine!" :-)
My biggest problem with Santa Claus is that other children are told different things.
I told my daughter Santa Claus does exist because I wanted her to experience the fun and magic and surprise that other kids got a chance to experience.
But then some other kid told her that he didn't exist and messed it up for her and for me.
So what did she think about what you had told her? Did it make any differences in your relationship?
She didn't care where she got the presents, as long as she got them. And it made it a lot easier for me not to have to have to buy two sets of gifts as a single parent with limited time, have two sets of wrapping paper and really secret hiding spaces, etc.
Now that is a child after my own heart! I'm with her ... don't care where the presents come from just keep them coming. I told my kids that I refused to let some fat guy take credit for all the hard work and effort my ex and I put into giving them Christmas memories that would last a lifetime.
They helped bake cookies, decorate the tree, sing Carols and even wrap gifts to others. The smiles on their little faces when they knew that mom and dad cared enough for them to save up all year for their gifts gave us all something to smile and cry about!
We are not Christians, but we celebrate it because I didn't want her to feel left out. The holiday is way too big to ignore. Certainly telling her about Santa Claus is a lie, but that's what Americans / Christians do. I didn't want her to be the one to tell other children that he doesn't exist and spoil their Christmas. I didn't make a big deal about it though, and she really didn't buy into it that much in the first place.
I think it is more important to teach children the true spirit of Christmas, and get them away for it being for getting presents, and the commercialism of it. My old neighbor had a 2 year old that figured it out, and it upset her mom. Hey, the kid figured out that if she just saw Santa in one store, it was impossible for him to be in the next one within minutes, and see another one on a corner, then the next corner another santa. Kids aren't stupid.
Actually I think the Santa thing is sad for many kids. They are told to sit on Santa's lap, write him a letter and tell him what they want. Kids depend on Santa to be true to his word and bring them their presents. What about the poor kids who get nothing for Christmas! Did Santa decide they were bad??
The 2 year old was definitely told something different by someone else.
I agree that children should be told the truth otherwise don't expect them to be truthful to you. I think that the joy of Christmas, like you said, should go beyond a stranger breaking into your home and instead of taking something; leave gifts :-)
Lol - well there's another conspiracy theory. No Santa Claus indeed. How ridiculous.
I can understand people banging on about the Moon landings, the grassy knoll and Virgin birth - but to deny the very existence of this wonderful man is madness.
The tree! The presents! Do you think they just get delivered by fairies?
Have you never seen the reindeer in the sky as they bring presents to the good children?
I suggest you see your doctor.
Millionaire: No she wasn't. She revealed it to grandma while out with her shopping. Grandma was trying to keep the belief going with some story as to why she was seeing more than one Santa in a short period of time This kid was smart and wise beyond her years.
A lie is a lie! If you perpetuate a lie, you are still a liar no matter what happens!
Jacqueline: She was the grandchild of my previous neighbor. When mom found out, her mom said she had a fit. Well, that was until she told her mom that she wished she had 2 birthdays. When her mom asked her why, she responded with, "So I will get more presents."
Xmas? You believe in Santa but you call the event Xmas? I won't look for you on Christmas!
The X comes from Χριστός which is Christ in Greek. Which will probably get me into as much trouble as not making a big deal out of Santa. My kids screamed when I went to have their picture taken with Santa and it wasn't worth the noise. As long as they got presents they were happy. But when they told the kids down the street there was no Santa I got yelled at. It's still the neighborhood joke.
Right? Santa is awesome and we still talk about him on our house but maybe people don't really get the idea of Santa and what it means to give others presents. Particularly those that can't afford nice things for themselves. Santa always has something stashed for everyone that comes by my house during the holidays. It's the season of giving.
Then would it be justifiable for me to conclude by your statement that it is ok to lie when it serves a good purpose?
... And am I to believe this original feed was to make you feel better about your personal beliefs while dismissing and scolding others for theirs. I think we will agree to disagree. I feel your the type that doesn't let their kids celebrate Halloween either.
Part of life is creativity and part of creativity is imagination and fantasy... part of kindness and fun is participating in the world-wide fantasy and myth of St. Nickolas. I think it is so cool that my parents made this illusion for my 3 brothers and I. I did it for my kids…
So, when they get older, they find out the truth.. they get it and they love it it. And they love you all the more for it.
However, I really think the more serious side should be introduced through church and focusing on the birth of an avatar who came to bring a new way to the world. A way out of the mire of the past and into the future on a clear path toward true peace and happiness through ACTUAL Reality / Spirit... within and without. So illusion and Reality become one.
Life's a blast.
I do remember being somewhat "disappointed" when I found out Santa was not a real person with magical powers.
It happened around age 8 or 10 (I was an over-protected late-bloomer).
However, my own powers of observation kicked in, when I noticed that "Santa's" notes seemed to look an awful lot like mom's or dad's handwriting.
When I realized that magic in that sense does not exist, and there is no way for a person (let alone a chubbster like Santa) to fit through a chimney, or that reindeer cannot possibly fly.
That aside, I did not worry about "fewer gifts," because my folks were always careful that only the small, trivial, trinket-style gifts were "from Santa." My main gifts came from the family.
However, I did not want my children to experience that disappointment, so I handled it differently than any one else I'd ever spoken to. I decided to give them the best of both worlds.
I taught them that "Santa" is a fun game that everyone plays at that time of year. They knew from the get-go that it was all-in-fun make-believe.
I also made sure to emphasize that some children truly believed it was all real, and that it would be very rude to spoil the fun for them by announcing that it was pretend.
I did give them "from Santa" gifts, and like my parents, these were the trivial small items; little spur-of-the-moment 'extras.'
It worked well. They had the fun; they never had the letdown.
I think you did it right. My parents were similar. I was never encouraged to believe... or disbelieve. They had a kind if neutral approach ... and I always thought of it as harmless make-believe.
It's harmless until you see the look on some little kid's face whose parents were too poor to afford anything but the "bare necessities." How do you explain to a child that "Santa couldn't visit you this year but he could visit Bobby and give him a new laptop?"
@ Jaqueline4390: That's exactly why I presented it in terms of a fun game of make-believe; and none of the "big" gifts (as big as they got on my ex's salary, anyway) were from "Santa," but from mom & dad, as my folks had done.
No comparisons to what other families kids got or did not get were included.
Same here MSLizzy. We always had the biggest present from Mom and Dad and a smaller one(less expensive) from Santa.
I was poor when my daughter was young, but I had enough money to get a few happy meal toys or dollar store trinkets. She didn't know how much things cost, and what mattered was that she enjoyed unwrapping and getting presents. Even now, she knows that the cost of something has no bearing to the amount of usefulness or enjoyment she would get.
I think it's fine to tell your kids that Christmas presents come from Santa, or from Baby Jesus if you live in Latin America. ( Don't ask me why the infant version of Jesus rather than the adult version brings presents.) I know adults who still receive presents from their parents tagged "from Santa." Most people who are brought up with Santa figure it out on their own, and no lasting psychological damage is done.
But other kids aren't obligated to help keep up the charade if they weren't brought up with that tradition. I remember a long time ago when I was in second grade a Jewish girl got in trouble because she told some other students (older kids!) that there was no such thing as Santa. I don't think it was fair for her to get in trouble for that.
We do have Santa here in Brasil. I usually see him driving around on a mototaxi in December. The big difference is that he always wears Bermudas with that red costume--the holiday falls during our summer.
Celebrating Christmas in the summer would definitely be a unique experience. Shorts and T's instead of mittens and hot apple cider.
Exactly, a bbq on the beach, board shorts and bikinis, cold beer or other non-alcoholic drinks. A totally different experience....have never even seen snow here in Winter.
Oh dear, this debate has been raging for years. Just watch the movie "miracle on 34th Street" and tell me Santa isn't real. Maybe read this hub: <link snipped>
It is a dilemma for parents and always will be, but where is the harm? I wish I was still a child that believed in Santa, the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny etc. life was so much more delightful back then.
I think its exciting to talk about. Let me just say this in all honesty ... he never came to my house ... he never left me any presents ... we had no chimney for him to come down. However, as you have just mentioned Hollywood has glorified the image of Santa Claus as it has done for a lot of things. Sure I enjoyed it as a child; however, I would have been just as happy if my parents had just given me the gifts and said it was from them.
Jodah: Remove your link Violates HP rules. However, you can put title of hub in forums. I loved that movie.
Obviously there are a lot of left-wing troublemakers on this thread but I will ask you one simple question.
IF there is no Santa Christmas then WHO looks after the reindeer?
If there is a Santa, why do so many have so much Credit card debt due to holidays? Why do so many kids wake up to nothing or very little.
Santa can't deal with all the problems. That's a question for your government.
He delivers toys.
Say that ... now you are hitting with the proverbial "left hook."
So, were all these kiddies "bad"! And what gives "Santa" the right to be so judgmental and say who is naughty and who is nice?
Well I am not an expert but I think the Santa Reward system is based on equal opportunity and fairness. If a child behaves it gets a gift.
If they got one regardless we are into a Socialist wonder-land. Now that is a fairy tale.
The fairytale is to believe that its okay to give one child some thing and not another based on one person's perception. That sounds like a monarch.
He is neither monarch or politician. He is Santa. The rule which everyone knows is the naughty and nice rule. This is a handy rule for harassed parents particularly during the run up to Xmas day which is completely mental with hysterical children.
It is for when stfu just won't cut it any more.
The reward system is complicated. Some kids do get more than others and others get less. Some do not get anything - not just because of the rule but because Santa does not always have enough stock to go around, particularly for the poor parts of town.
What a nice idea to help Santa this Xmas by making a toy gift shoe box and giving it to a charity for distribution.
If Santa is as smart as you presume; why doesn't he make contingencies for the shortages. If one year you run out of stock then the following year you make sure that you have double. He doesn't sound like a very good manager. And, if he is so supportive of children; then he would see that the poor were taken care of first; wouldn't he?
Hmmm, somebody is really going to shoot me down for this statement but maybe Santa is a republican? Hahahahaha!
Stock wastage especially through reindeer accidental damage - stamping, nibbling - is a problem.
His route is decided with the aviation authorities. He can't do just the poor kids first because there are so many of them. So he tries to cover the world - mostly America and the UK to be honest - as efficiently as possible.
Please ... if he is as great as you set him up to be then he can accomplish anything. What about all those "assistants" he has in department stores. Are they just for show? Sorry, but it don't hold water.
I have to admit that even an expert in Santa related matters such as myself finds your questioning hard.
I pity some seven year old trying to cope with it.
Let's agree to disagree. When I am sat at home on Xmas Day with a nice present from Santa then I will be chuckling away into my beard. "Blitzen", I will call to my favourite dog, "Put another Yule log on the fire".
If only there were a Mrs.Santa.
I don't suppose you....
Yes, lets firmly agree to disagree since the origins of Santa can be traced to Germany and Dutch it seems a pity that he would mainly visit the U.S. and the U.K. (I must admit that my friends used to tell me that I would have a great career in politics :-)
He can't fly over the Ukraine to there is a danger he'd be shot down.
It's a fairy tale, for pity sakes. A legend. A tradition. With no basis in fact, so not one of the arguments about "why Santa can't accomplish this, that or the other" are valid or relevant.
He's a storybook character; nothing more; he's not some omnipotent being like a "god."
Simmer down! We were rhetorically speaking of course. Or, at least I was. Sometimes, its fun to be able to say, "If this were true then this would happen." Being a highly educated person doesn't mean that I can't see both sides of an issue but for the sake of conversation I will take an analytical approach to almost anything.
If you were offended by this; I humbly apologize!
Not "offended," just rather amazed at the depths of the discussion about a fictional character, and the passions that seem to be displayed on both sides of the argument. It was just a "shaking my head" moment.
I love it when people are passionate about what they believe. I think it is this passion that drives people in performing impossible feats and conquering great obstacles. It is when we cross that line from respectful banter to deliberate viciousness that I must draw the line. I will defend my beliefs religiously but find no shame in apologizing when I have offended anyone.
My hub is "Please Tell Me theTruth. Is There a Santa Claus". I understand the point about the poor kids thinking they were bad because Santa doesn't bring them presents. However he doesn't have control over birthdays and they miss out then as well. At least at Christmas there are charities that deliver to the poor. I believe as a Christian that we should celebrate the true meaning of Christmas, but I feel that Santa helps add to the festive spirit..by all means tell the kids it is just make-believe fun if you wish.
Having been married to an ordained elder and growing up in religious surroundings, people have come to me because they believe that I would tell them the truth. To do otherwise would have been a disservice to me and them. So, in the Spirit of Christmas I give them the story of the nativity. I also explain the origins of Saint Nicholas and from that legends were born. However, to tell a child that you better be good if you want Santa to bring you a gift ... I cannot.
Credit card debt isn't Santa's fault. It is the fault of the people who try to keep up with Santa Jones.
He gives gifts on a scale system. He can't give diamonds to the poor people because it wouldn't fit into their lifestyle and their parents wouldn't be able to give gifts of similar value on other occasions.
I am a Christian who celebrates the birth of Christ. With that being said, the side fiction of Santa is and has always been part of our Christmas. We still do Santa presents. I told my child several years ago and he was disappointed until he figured out it was now his job to keep the magic alive for the younger one. He felt very grown up to be a part of our family tradition. Each family celebrates in their own way and my thought is to wish everyone a happy holiday whatever they believe.
But of course everyone is entitled to their own believes and opinions which I think every one who has given a comment will agree. It is what makes America great to be able to voice your opinion when asked without fear of being sent to jail. At one time or another everyone has been exposed to the fallacy of Santa. I remember that one minister said that the same letters that are in SATAN are in SANTA.
I heard exactly that same quote once when a lady was telling her young son why he wasn't allowed to stand in the line to talk to Santa. She'd been speaking quite loudly and gained the attention of everyone around.
Her son replied, "The same letters that are in GOD are in DOG - and you don't like dogs!"
They left abruptly ... but I so-o-o wanted to hear what her reply would have been.
I would have loved to hear her reply on that one too. Of course most dogs are loyal and trustworthy and if you upset them; its NOT a good thing!
lol. I'm not sure that would have worked for the woman who clearly didn't like dogs at all, Jacqueline.
It raises an interesting point though. A child who is in fear of upsetting God doesn't need Santa to make them worry about being 'naughty or nice'. I guess they constantly have that inner pressure year-round.
I've always reassured my kids they don't have to be perfect. They just have try their best. I am uncomfortable with any child fearing rejection from anyone or any thing ... be that Santa or God.
Personally, I think its more in the line of pleasing than fear of rejection. Because I loved my parents, I did what I could to please them. I knew that I would be punished for doing bad but it wasn't because they found joy in punishing me ... just the opposite they didn't. But it was because they want to insure that I maintained a safe and positive environment. This is how I see God; as a loving Father that is looking out for my best interests.
I had a neighbor who would bring a tin of homemade cookies every year.She has moved. I have moved. I sure miss those cookies.
It is harmless and teaches children that there is magic in the world. My best childhood memories involve santa. I would also like you to think of it from a different perspective. It is also a to way buy gifts for your children in an unselfish way. You get no praise for the gifts and you get to buy them without the kids feeling spoiled by the parent. I doubt if a child has an issue with the santa fallacy they will hate their parent for it, and if they do, there is more than the santa fallacy at play. To question Santa Claus as a Fallacy is, in itself, selfish and the complete opposite of the whole point. i.e What if my kids dislike me because of this lie?
Also, where do we draw the line? Should we tell our kids to grow up and not talk to their stuffed animals? That they aren't real. Should we not allow them to read fictional books for fear of them thinking the wild things are real? Should we make sure that they have no fantasy in their lives and that their early years consist of truth telling and nothing more? No jokes, no fun... no chocolate milk doesn't come from a chocolate cow!! Wow, Life and childhood would be boring.
I do, however, have a hard time playing out the easter bunny thing and only stick with santa as it really is a special moment for a kid and it is a way for me to spoil my kids without them knowing. I don't disagree with others being allowed to do the easter bunny though. To do so would be selfish.
FYI: I am sorry you went to a school where your classmates took that away from you. That happened to me at a certain age, but even still, the younger years were priceless.
You have a right to your opinion and I applaud it. However, don't feel sorry for me just because I learned there was no Santa. Feel sorry for those who live their entire lives feeling that they have to defend a lie. I don't apologize that I would rather tell my children the truth than to tell them a lie. Dress it up, clean it up and it is still a lie.
Nor do I apologize that I wanted my children to realize that I loved them so much that I would do my best to provide for them. Even though they are adults; they still come to me for guidance and love because I refused to "go along with the crowd." I am very proud for my convictions.
I hope you don't think all kids who are exposed to Santa grow up to reject their parents. Mine loved the big jolly fellow in the red suit when they were little, yet still come to me for guidance and love. Heck, I even grounded them when they were teenagers, and they still come to me for guidance and love. I guess they just don't hold a grudge.
Seems to me all those previous generations who used to talk about collecting their babies from the cabbage patch or a visiting stork instead of offering their children an honest answer about conception and delivery still managed to retain their personal integrity in the eyes of their children.
I don't think many people spend their entire lives 'defending' those types of lies, do they? With maturity and age comes perspective. I credited my children with the ability to put Santa into perspective as they grew a little older, just as I did many years ago.
And so you should be proud of yourself. I would rather my children think on their own when they are adults though as someday I will be dead and their children in turn need to think on their own. I would feel selfish to have my kids "needing" me at every turn. And I also still strongly believe that children need magic in their life and we, as parents, need to let them believe in things for as long as they like rather than telling them that their stuffed animals don't really talk, their is no santa or anything else that might help them grow an imagination. You say lie, I say imagination. I say, an open way to give my kids gifts while I can sit and watch and take no credit.
It's ok for us to differ, and that's what makes the world go around. Just as long as someone doesn't try to tell me what is suitable for my kids. Similar to religion, open discussion is healthy. Live and let live.
Hey ... it's not so much that they need me as they value my experience and opinion. Being an older person its really nice when younger people seek my opinion. And, I might add ... its not just my adult children that seek me out. Some of the children in my Sunday School class can come up with some very interesting questions.
I grew up believing there was a Santa, and that some of those presents were from him. The cookies and milk I set out always disappeared. When I learned the truth I didn't like how I felt. So! I taught my children the truth. Sad to say that there were some parents that were upset because my kids told their kids there really isn't a Santa. I hope those parents got over it, because I didn't mean to upset anyone.
This is just what I am trying to say. My mother always taught me to tell the truth and that God hated liars. Then she tells me about Santa and I found out that she lied to me. It sent out a mixed message to me. I didn't want my kids to have that mixed message.
What I was attempting to express is if I do not like how I feel about something, I do not do it.
In hind sight I could have taught my kids to keep our little secret, and not the spill the beans because it could hurt or upset others.
I felt sad that I didn't think things through to the end so that no one would be upset in my community.
No need to clarify to me! I don't give out parenting advice ... definitely NOT me! I enjoy having stimulating conversations with people because that's how I learn ... and ... get information for my next novel (of course the names are changed to protect privacy!)
I do not this that it would discredit the parent. I think that it teaches the child to use their imagination at a young age. And when they get old enough to know the truth they will understand why you gave them that dream. No one sees god/Jesus but we know they are around. At one time Santa Claus was really. Keeping his giving alive is not a bad thing to teach a child. Specially in a society with kids being so give me give me give me. Santa to me teaches the love of giving and showing people that it is ok to love everyone.
I grew up always aware there was no santa. My parents gave the presents not a mythical man. They did warn us to keep the truth quiet from our peers. There are times when I wonder if we missed out on something special. Then I reconsider and think I am glad they never bothered with the fallacy. It's Christ's birth which is what matters in our Christmas . No santa necessary.
Although I did always want to do a visit with santa and sit on his lap. Last year I did it and told him I was so willing to try anything for my health I was wishing on him. I ended feeling a new appreciation for this life because the man playing santa was battling cancer. Instead of feeling sorry for himself he did something to make a kid's day. We promised prayers and I hope this year he will be having a healthy holiday.
Oooh, tough question. When I was young, my parents were pretty good at tricks. I never found out they were Santa - until 6th grade when my dad forgot to change his handwriting in one of the gift tags. -_- I never told my parents, and I kept believing. I don't know, I guess it's because I wanted to keep the magic alive.
So when I have children, I'll be sure to remember to change my handwriting in those gift tags!
lol. I am honest enough to admit that sometimes I tell lies.
Yes, I lied about my grandmother's hair looking nice when she came back from the hair salon. (I can still remember the smell of her blue rinse, nearly 50 years later!)
I've lied to eager young children who asked me if I saw them in their school play, (when I'd really been concentrating on my own child and hadn't noticed the excited children questioning me at all.) "Yes! You were very good!"
I taught my children to lie if it will protect their lives (eg "That's my mother/father/husband/boyfriend/ over there" if they are alone and approached by an intimidating stranger) ... and I know my now-adult kids have all used lies to escape from potential danger.
I even wrote a hub about the day I taught my youngest child and one of her friends (the daughter of a police officer) to tell lies as part of their self-defence strategy!
Seems strange to me when people insist they never tell lies. Can anyone honestly claim they never lie?
P.S. On the subject of Santa, I've written about that as well if anyone's interested. No point rewriting a hub here in the forums.
I really wish that I could say that I NEVER tell lies; however, it is strictly not a predetermined event where I plan to do so. It tends to work on one's credibility to be known for lying.
I don't believe being diplomatic with the elderly or encouraging with the young destroys one's credibility. You asked CassandraCae, "Then would it be justifiable for me to conclude by your statement that it is ok to lie when it serves a good purpose?"
I can only speak for myself, but as I explained earlier, I do think it is ok when it serves a good purpose. (That's a 'good' purpose, not a selfish or greedy or harmful purpose.)
What about you? Do you think it is ever ok?
My husband and I had our kids believing in Santa. It was great fun while it lasted. We loved it, the kids loved it. It was a magical time and made Christmas lots of fun. Those early childhood years don't last long, so we enjoyed them while we could.
I think maybe the OP is not giving enough credit to kids. Kids are smart enough to know when something is a game or just for fun. When our kids figured out that it was impossible for Santa to make and deliver toys to every single child in the world in one night, they were not mad. They did not hold it against us and accuse us of lying. Kids are smarter than that. They understood it was for fun. They have great memories of Santa and Christmas.
Kids are smart enough to (eventually) figure out that the existence of Santa is impossible, and that their parents were just creating a bit of holiday fun.
...the kid's face says it all!
Thanks, Mark Ewbie!
I think that is a really sweet gesture.
I was coming out of Dollar Tree Store yesterday and there was a man in a wheel chair asking me for money to buy food. I apologized because I didn't have any to give him. I felt really bad about that, too. His legs were cut off above the knee and he was quite old. WOW, the holiday seasons really make you stop and think!
I find the idea that telling your kids about Santa = lying to your kids is really quite cynical. I don't care if people want to tell their kids about Santa or not, but saying that it's the same as lying to your kids just kind of stinks in my opinion.
I was disappointed when a friend told me that Santa wasn't real, but I never held it against my parents and I never once was upset that they "lied" to me. Christmas was so magical for me growing up. I'm 26 now and I still get more excited about Christmas than some kids, probably. I've been telling my toddler about Santa and Christmas Magic stuff and I look forward to trying to make her Christmases as magical as mine were.
I will say that I don't like the bad/good aspect of Santa and don't plan on making that a part of what I tell my daughter.
But God will hate you if you lie to your kids about Santa!
I disagree. It is not lying. It is celebrating the life of St. Nick and following in his example. The story of Santa Clause emphasizes giving and the joy of giving. It is the essence of love.
I agree with you. I was just being silly because the OP stated that her mother told her that God hates liars, and the OP also stated that Santa = lying.
God must hate all of us then. On another note, god loves all of us, but yet he hates liars. Very confused. So if god created St.Niclaus and we continue his tradition, does that me god loves to hate lovers of Santa? And if Santa = a lie, + god hates liars - god loves every one of us, then does god love haters?
And then, by default didn't god lie by saying he lovedall of us? Does that mean that god hates himself? Or was the OP's mother lying, and in turn the irony continues?
Hmm! Very interesting justification, but as I stated previously to each his own. It's still a fallacy unless someone actually does go down your chimney every December 24th.
I hope the fat guy started dieting months ago if he wants to fit down our chimney. Would hate him to get stuck and not be able to finish his deliveries.
Ha ... I really enjoy your input ... so carefree and refreshing! You must really be a nice person!
That's a nice thing to say Jacqueline. It just shows that people can have a civil light hearted discussion even if they have differing viewpoints. You seem like a nice person yourself.
Thanks, Jodah ... I try to be. I love stimulating conversations and hope that everyone had a jolly good time defending what they believe in. I think that's what separates us from the primates; the ability to state our opinion but still be polite and cheerful. You have a SUPER day :-)
Hey Jodah. Did you watch 'Dynamo' on the tv? He managed to put mobile phones inside glass bottles - and the phones could still ring. He also passed right through a glass shop-front window. Even if Dynamo was a fat guy in a red suit, I'll bet he could get down your chimney!!
Never underestimate the power of magic.
True LTM, I watch Dynamo all the time. He is incredible and yes I believe he could get down my chimney so I guess Santa could too.
Of course, when there's no need to even open a window, a chimney is no longer a prerequisite. Phew. Glad we just solved the problem of kids worrying about Santa not being able to get in to deliver their presents.
I wonder how many Santa-supporters will include a DVD of Dynamo in this year's Christmas stocking. lol.
According to most people's standards (at least on this forum) he already hates me, so I might as well love Santa while I'm at it.
Oh wow. This is turning into a really insightful thread. I didn't know St. Nick could spark so much...uhm, debate.
Yikes, Jodah! I've just had a thought. We've just been likening Dynamo to Santa.
Maybe we should have been drawing the parallels between him and JC (to include the non-Santa people in the conversation.) We know he can create food and wine where none exists ... And did you see where he walked on water?
I have to hit the sack because I have a busy (and early) day planned tomorrow. However if you have the time and feel inclined to share some of his 'miracles', this is probably the place to do it!
Or maybe you might write one of your marvellous hubs about him ...
Well, maybe you are right LTM. Dynamo's miracles certainly would be more comparable to those of Jesus rather than Santa. I have to be a little skeptical because I have only seen him perform his feats on tv, but going on the surprise and astounded looks on the faces of those around him it looks legit. He has turned a wall covered in paper butterflies into real ones, made a ring disappear off a woman's finger and make it reappear tied to one of her shoelaces, got a random pedestrian to choose a solid blank paver and hovered his hand over the sidewalk in Hollywood where the stars have their handprints and signatures and imprinted his hand. The list of miracles is too long, it would have to be a hub...yes walking on water he has done too.
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