Santa Clause Causes Atheism.

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   spiderpamposted 14 years ago

   After viewing the comments of almost every skeptic here and beyond.  I’ve noticed that when they get into a tight corner or really want to get off topic they bring up Santa Clause. It happens 99% of the time. I get a chuckle every time, but another friend of mine has been collecting research to affirm this theory.  The shocking results are(drum roll please)  Santa Clause Causes Atheism. It seems nearly every atheist grew up with the myth of Santa rather than the truth of God. So when they got older and found out Santa wasn’t real instead of turning to the One True God , The Creator that threw the baby out with the bath water. They didn’t want to be “fooled” again, but that’s exactly what happen(Psalm 53:1)  Isn’t satan clever.
   
   My proof of God besides creation itself is the utmost marvel of the earth. The earth tilts at 23 degrees exactly creating our seasons. If it were one degree off we would freeze(so much for global warming). The estimate weight of earth
   6 sextillion ton’s that’s 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 but it has perfect balance and tilts on it’s axis held by invisible gravity. It simply brings praises to His Word Romans 20:1 “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
   So Christians when you see a skeptic reference Santa you know why.
   Proof of Santa Syndrome.
   
   Proof of Santa Syndrome 2.

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      Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      99% of the time?  That right?
      
      Is that a scientific fact or did GOD tell it to you in your head?
      
      Oddly enough - that sounds about as true as your bible.
      
      99% of the time. PROOF !!! ;lol:

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         spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Since when do you care about facts?

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      getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      WOW!!!   And you think WE"RE the ones being fooled!!!  Why would a reasonable person not relate Santa to God.  They are both deceptive human concoctions.

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         spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         It was Santa Syndrome that led me to start this thread.

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            getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            But, really, who is being fooled, the person who reasonably observes the similarities, and rejects religion, or the person, who, despite seeing the similarities, choose to believe in what these deceivers taught.  Sounds like a matter of control to me.

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               spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I reject religion and debunk religious cults all the time. It's just the humanist religion of atheism have funnier poster boys.

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                  getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't see the humor in our responses!  Has common sense become hilarious!

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                     spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     What accounts for your common sense? Where did it come from?

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                        getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Is that a trick question?

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                        getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Just watched your video:
                        
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWUn_bj5rM 
                        
                        This guy is laughable and one dimensional.  Everyone is born an atheist, we don't need Santa to make us atheist.  We need lies to make us believers.

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                  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  ;lol:
                  
                  Ah - so making fun of other people's "beliefs" is what jeebus sed ter do right?
                  
                  U sure that wot jeebus sed?
                  
                  Sorry you beliefs have been proven garbage. Do you think starting fights all the time will help?
                  
                  Does it make you feel better?

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                     tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     She's with the SLS
                     Sunday 'Lonely' Syndrome

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                        spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Okay Santa.

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                     spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Hey mark, thanks for picking and choosing what to answer. Have you look into Cornelius Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata Suetonius Pliny the Younger, Thallus and Phlegon Mara Bar-Serapion or Flavius Josephus

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         sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Where did you get your expertise on being human?

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      Stevennix2001posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      hmmm...to be honest, i never thought of it like that before.  you may have a valid point.
      
      however, i will say this though.  i think its very freaking sad that whenever christians talk about christmas with their kids or celebrate christmas, too much focus is on santa clause and not what the holiday is really about at all like Jesus.  nobody ever mentions him in x-mas tv specials, but in hanukah and other holidays are allowed to elaborate their origins.  i just think its sad.

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         spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I have to agree.

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      thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So true! HILARIOUS!

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         spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         There's a new vid with RD talking about Santa too.

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            thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I gotta see that, send me the link via PM.

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      DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lolllllll this is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER read. Made me chuckle though

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         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sure is funny. Love the maths too. I have made 10,902 posts and probably mentioned Santa Clause twice.
         
         Which is 99% of the time.

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            DogSiDaedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            99% is in perfect keeping with Christian logic

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               thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               
               99% may be her own her own experience, but in mine it’s definitely in the high 80s low 90s of atheist showing symptoms of Santa Syndrome or ABG syndrome. It’s an epidemic.

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      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      people forsake the christian god after observing the hypocrisy of the religion, inconsistencies in the bible and being told for the 99,000,000,000th to quit asking questions.
      
      i grew up in poverty and learned very early there was no such thing as Santa Claus, but i believed in God and Jesus, FYI.

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         thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I am a hypocrite(among many other things) I try to follow God’s Word and I sometimes fail does that mean I should give up? If you're NOT a hypocrite your standards are too LOW.
         
         You constantly talk of inconsistencies, but when asked you either quote mine, read out of context, or flat out don't understand the historical context of the bible which is also important. You claim the miracles in the bible seem impossible. Impossible for you yes, For God, NO! You go on and on about how bad God is you literally try to judge Him. Who are we to judge to one who created EVERYTHING. It’s not God you have a problem with it’s His form of justice. I know you carry your "I used to be a "Christian"" motto as some  kind of war wound, save it. You used to be a religionist(which is not a Christian) now you claim spiritual atheism.
         
         http://hubpages.com/hub/There-is-no-suc … -Christian

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      pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Spiderpam wrote:  Isn't satan clever?...the answer is..."Not quite as much as some of hubpage's hubbers".

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      Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, no, we would not freeze.  With a little less tilt, there would be less difference between the lengths of day and night, and a little less difference between summer and winter. The Arctic and Antarctic circles would be a little closer to the poles, and so fewer places would experience the 'midnight sun' in high summer.
      With a little more tilt, all these effects would be more, not less, pronounced. And that's all.
      As for 'perfect balance', since the earth formed from a mass of cooling atoms and molecules, mutually attracted by gravity, and with a net angular momentum, it could only have taken the form it did take - an oblate spheroid.
      Try to watch some slo-mo footage of rain falling, and tell me how many raindrops are shaped like cubes or pyramids. (Hint - none). Spheres occur in nature, from the very small to the very large.
      Your only 'proof' of God is your faith in God. Why not just be happy with that, instead of trying to wow people with pseudo-scientific waffle?

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      Pearldiverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh Ho-Ho-Ho!
      Doesn't this sum up your Obsessive Need to be 'Heard' or???
      What a waste of a mind!!

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       Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I don't think I've seen an atheist use Santa Clause to get out of a tight spot once.  Then again, I haven't really seen any atheist in tight spots (especially in arguments against certain small, sometimes deadly insects mixed with a spray on cooking oil).
       
       As for the proof: The weight of the earth has nothing to do with the 'balance' along the 23 degree axis.  It has everything to do with the moon.  There are probably thousands of planets like earth out there.  The fact is that we can barely see half the universe, probably much less.  The likeliness that there is another planet with sentient life somewhere in the universe is 100%.  This is despite the fact that the earth is at the 'perfect' distance from the center of the galaxy, 'perfect' distance from the sun, has the 'perfect' balancing aide (the moon), and 'perfect' rotational axis for consistent climate (one of the requirements of life AS WE KNOW IT).  The universe is so massive that it dwarfs the unlikeliness of the combination of these 'perfect' situations.
       
       That is also ignoring the fact that not all life has to be formed the same way life on earth was.  Hell, we found microbes in 400 degree heat at the bottom of the ocean, even small organisms.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were decently sized organisms in the subterranean oceans of Titan (Saturn's moon).  The 'balance' of earth is FAR from proof of god... then again I've tried to explain the concept of scientific proof to you before, without avail.
       
       Anyways, this post is baseless and ridiculous.  Another excuse to claim proof out of belief.
       
       If you believe in god, and you've gotten this far, and what I said pisses you off, please realize this: I BELIEVE IN GOD.  I do not believe in using god the way 8 legged insects and spray on cooking oil does.  It is an excuse for ignorance and stupidity.  See this article by theoretical physicist Neil deGrasse Tyson for a better idea of what I mean.
       
       http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/ … fignorance

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          Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Nice link. That's a good article.

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             Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Yea, I thought it was pretty good as well.  He makes a great point....

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          (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          From the article:
          
          "To deny or erase the rich, colorful history of scientists and other thinkers who have invoked divinity in their work would be intellectually dishonest. Surely there's an appropriate place for intelligent design to live in the academic landscape. How about the history of religion? How about philosophy or psychology? The one place it doesn't belong is the science classroom.
          
          If you're not swayed by academic arguments, consider the financial consequences. Allow intelligent design into science textbooks, lecture halls, and laboratories, and the cost to the frontier of scientific discovery—the frontier that drives the economies of the future—would be incalculable. I don't want students who could make the next major breakthrough in renewable energy sources or space travel to have been taught that anything they don't understand, and that nobody yet understands, is divinely constructed and therefore beyond their intellectual capacity. The day that happens, Americans will just sit in awe of what we don't understand, while we watch the rest of the world boldly go where no mortal has gone before."

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       thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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       wsp2469posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I wouldn't worry.  If these particular people cannot properly spell Santa Claus then they simply are not educated enough to stir up any real trouble.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   Isn't Santa Clause the guy Tim Allen played?  Santa Claus, on the other hand, is a bit different.

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   Colebabieposted 14 years ago

   Then I'm not part of the 99%, actually I've never seen a mention of the jolly old man on the forums. When I found out Santa wasn't real, I thought "Man! my parents work really hard to make us happy"
   But you're going to believe what you want, so keep on truckin'.

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      rmcrayneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed.

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   Colebabieposted 14 years ago

   I think "Santa Clause" must be a part of a contract. Maybe between parent and child? Like:
   
   Santa Clause
   
   We the parents promise to dress up and/or put out cookies for Santa and carrot sticks for the reindeer until the age where we seem fit to disclose the truth. No worries though, you'll be old enough to not be disappointed or will get over it in 5 minutes because you have the attention span of well, a child.

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      apricotposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      !  It's funny how the biscuits always got eaten and the carrot was never touched!  Obviously Rudolph never had an appetite.  Yes, there's definitely a clause in there somewhere!  I was terrified of Santa and had to be told the truth from the start - didn't want some bloke with a beard climbing down the chimney and pinching the Sherry - that's not on!

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   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   What do you mean Santa Claus isn't real?!!

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      Paradise7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Good one!!!!

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   sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

   Christmas is a pegan holiday altogether. The fat man is just part of the show.

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   wyanjenposted 14 years ago

   It's not that I didn't want to be fooled again.
   When we were children, we thought Santa was Jesus in disguise. That was the only explanation for his all-knowing super powers. Only somebody sent from god can perform a miracle, right?
   
   Either way, I haven't been fooled again... since first grade...

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      spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are a result of trying to mix truth with myth.

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   Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

   Santa Claus was a real man,(Ever heard of Saint Nicholas) read your history, and a saint nonetheless go figure. And like some other men of god who once existed and our now dead he is remembered and celebrated for his charity warmth, compassion and love. This is awesome how someone would blame world issues on something as innocent as Santa Claus, who's next the evil Easter bunny and his gang of henchman. How about Tom the Turkey since Thanksgiving is coming up. I believe in God, and his son, and also dress as Santa Claus each Christmas and deliver presents to my nieces and nephews, does this make me a heretic, and in danger of damnation?

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      Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You forgot The Tooth Fairy and the battle for same sex marriage...

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      sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      yes.

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         Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well, good thing you're not God then or I'd be in trouble, are you God? You sure seem to think you have his authority to judge and condemn.

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      dejajolieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I like your thought process, I concur!

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   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   Well...no Christmas presents for you then...

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    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    oh my...

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    beee.posted 14 years ago

    i dont know about anybody else but i find the whole story about santa claus a bit strange as to why adults feel the needs to lie to their children and  for them to tell them when they reach an age of which the belief isnt there anymore, to tell them that santa isnt actully real.
    it causes slight confusion to me?

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       scribeXposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       As a parent I dont think it is an opportunity to "lie to my children" as more an opportunity to create something special, something anticipated.  I love the build up, the barely concealed excitement as christmas eve approaches.  I love the richness and extra dimension that Santa creates in their lives.  I love the way they so carefully compile their wish lists and dare to hope that Santa will manage to fulfill their wishlists.  Life is short and should be enjoyed (in moderation I agree) but what awful alternative if children are merely told from birth there is nothing here but seriuosness, nothing special, no childhood surprises, life should be lived with no extravaganza whatsoever!  I hope thats not what your childhood was like.

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       maggiebeansposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I think its that confusion the writer of this hub is referring to its a loss of trust and that can therefore cause an individual a loss of belief in anything that is mysterious. Having a belief or faith in God's existence requires a belief in something mysterious.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    There you go, changing the topic to Santa Claus
    
    I think it's a nice thing to believe as a child. Like believing in the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy.
    
    From my experience, it isn't parents that tell children there is no Santa Claus. It's usually other kids.

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    beee.posted 14 years ago

    sorry.
    and i just dont see how that can be fun, why tell them something in the first place if its not true. i mean i proberly most likely will tell my children there is a santa, but i just dont understand why.

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    HealthTipposted 14 years ago

    As the Marx Brothers once said " There has to be a Sanity Clause ", methinks there is no sanity in this topic

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    Maybe the title should be Sanity Clause Causes Atheism

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       HealthTipposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Would make a good hub for a religious hubber

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    kirstenblogposted 14 years ago

    You mean there is no Santa Clause?!?!?

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       Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Relax - Sinter Klass is real.
       
       This was a poor choice for the spider woman to attack. Those of with a little more education are well aware of the historical background - and the Santa Claus of corporate Amerika that most paper christians choose to revere has nothing to with my lack of belief in spider woman's invisible super being.
       
       Probably a good idea to educate yourself a little before making such sweeping attacks on people who do not share your beliefs, spiderwoman.
       
       Those of us not Amerikan by birth see things a little differently.
       
       But thanks for reminding us of the value of your "insights" and by extension, the rest of your beliefs.

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          kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Whew! Thats a relief!
          I swear when I was 6 years old we had the prettiest christmas tree and I just had to sneak downstairs for a peak at it, and there was this guy all in red! I ran to my room and dived under the blankets as quick as I could! You know santa will take back those presents if you are awake and try to spot him

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    torimariposted 14 years ago

    Actually, the Easter Bunny caused my atheism at 8.

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    This subject is deeper than many of you could ever go. I understand that and so does spider pam, u don't- but we do.

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       Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Its really not that deep. Little kids are brought up believing in Santa Claus. Then they find out he doesn't exist, having being lied to they denounce their faith because of the idea that they may have been lied to about God's existence as well.
       
       Does it happen? Possibly. 99% of the time? Nope.
       
       Spiderpam (and others) constantly study ways for opposition to their religion and how to disprove them. Rather than just practice their religion and ignore those who don't believe as they do. They don't realize they're doing more harm than good, oh and wasting their time.

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          No not 99% of the time. It is a piece of the pie though. The other part that was not mentioned is that christmas is supposed to be celebration of the birth of Jesus. Bring in the fat man who gives gifts and is really jolly and nice... who is Jesus?

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             Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             And Easter has a bunny (who doesn't lay eggs by the way, what the hell?) and St. Patrick's Day is celebrated by those who aren't Irish and is represented by a little man with a red beard and green outfit, and Halloween has little kids in Power Ranger costumes.
             
             Christmas, the birth of Jesus, sure. If you are religious you go to midnight mass and celebrate his birth. But Christmas has become more than the celebration of the birth of Jesus. Whether or not you think its good or bad fine. But that wasn't her point. Her point was that deception of Santa Claus led to Atheism. Which usually isn't true.

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             wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             To a five-year-old who understands that christmas is about celebrating Jesus AND that santa comes around spreading joy at christmas, why aren't they the same guy?
             That's just about as deep as somebody can think when they are five years old.

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       Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The only thing getting deeper in this thread is the B.S. and religious hate mongering. If that's where your faith takes its strength from then the sooner science pulls down God the better humanity will be.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       Deeper how ? Pleaseee !!!!

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Its just another part of Babylon.
          
          What kind of conclusion do you come to when I say that?

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Babylon !   O K. Still mixing History with Fairy tales.
             That's my conclusion.

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          spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Why such religious fervor?

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       spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Sooner,
       You've been busy. Thanks for stopping by. How's the greenhouse?

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          the greenhouse is good. I just planted some tomatos yesterday. Its strange, my outdoor garden is still growing tomatos like its mid summer.

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             spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Good to hear.

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    What about Leprechauns!?!??! Don't tell me they aren't real!!! If I find out there aren't any I'm not gonna be Irish anymore. That's it!

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    @spiderpam
    Where do you get all this ideas from?
    Are you that desperate ?
    I feel that deep inside you,you don't believe, and that's getting you scared to death !

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       spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You must another Santa victim I'm so sorry.

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          
          As you're not answering I asume you are scared. If that's so ,I congratulate you. Maybe you're more intelligent than I thought !

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             spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Just making observations of the atheist. It's fun! People who don't believed in God debate about God I could make this stuff up. You guys are funny!

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                tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                not more funny than you debating about Santa  causing atheism !
                You know what causes atheism?
                the ridiculous stories of the Bible and its contradictions ,to logical sensible persons
                
                And you still aren't answering !

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                   spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Answering what your assumptions? Yea I’m really going to waste my time. Not debating, just make observations and allowing people to make their thoughts on my observations which I’ve seen you pull several times that's still allowed right? Can you name one of these contradictions without google or yahoo another skeptics site from you actually reading it?  My guess is NO.

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                      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I could name too many! One example is God the Mercy one in some parts of the Bible and then in others he is the Cruel Avenging one
                      The differernt stories  mixing years,times and circimstances.
                      And lets not talk about the 'famous' free will
                      
                      Do I have to quote for you ? I don't think so. If you have read the Bible you know well what I'm talking about

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    "the sooner science pulls down God"
    
    what do you mean by this Scott?

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       Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       What I mean is two months/6 hubs and 636 posts you obviously only have one agenda here. Wherever someone is using God's name to judge others and preach exclusion and discrimination, I always find you.

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I have challenged you, and you don't like it. that is all.

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             Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Oh you're right about that I don't like anything about you or your hypocritical double talk. I don't like your message, your language, or your misuse of scripture to pervert Christ's message. You sicken me and disgust me. That Christ might have died so people like you could warp his teachings to justify your own agenda and mission of hate is a tragedy.
             
             The only difference is I feel bad about letting someone like you lead me away from forgiveness and love. I feel bad about my anger and wrath and I pray that God remind me that even hateful misguided persons such as yourself are still his creations and part of the world.

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                sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Do you really want to leave this up? I am not going to attack your character, and like I said before- I have challenged you. I have challenged you to think differently about subjects such as this one. Christmas has many meanings to us all. But Christ wants us educated on "His Agenda".
                
                I will admit that I have made some cutting comments to people, and for that I am sorry. I am not sorry for my "missuse of scripture". as I am not aware of any.

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                   Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Why would I want to take it down. I speak my feelings and take responsibility for them. I sure don't hide them behind a mask of religion or smiley faces. I haven't said anything about your character only your actions as I perceive them, and if anyone wants to tell me what I perceive they can see the edit button, and if speaking honestly earns me a ban then so be it. I'm not going to apologize for calling a spade a spade. I'm not going to apologize for speaking up against hateful agendas and mindsets that set out to condemn those who merely practice their God given gift to free choice. Funny how often people on the forums scream persecution and foul when their own actions are used against them.
                   
                   If you have a problem with people who don't live or believe as you think they should then say it, don't hide behind religion and God to justify it, God doesn't have a problem with any of those people you do. The only thing you challenge is my patience, you haven't caused me to rethink anything about my beliefs, you rate yourself too highly my friend, you are not a prophet.

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                      sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Well in that case there are too many assumptions about me to take your comments serious. You however, seem to play the "Christian Police" role. Quickly there to scorn those who challenge an atheist. AKA - the most dangerous man I have seen.

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                         Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         You want to see a dangerous man look in the mirror, but I would see why my knack for refusing to fit in your neat little box so you can pass judgment one way or the other would be disturbing. Assumptions, opinions, and points of view. Seems the only people you feel have a right to one is you and those who agree with you. This is just a classic routine of yours. Someone calls you on your BS, and you try to dismiss it as assumptions and attacks.
                         
                         That I would rather live with men then condemn them must be a truly alien concept to someone like you that's so filled with anger towards free thinking people.

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                            sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Look, you seem to be the one judging. I have made arguments, and you have tried to belittle me. Then you keep writing these novels. Fun as it has been, I am done with them. sorry.
                            
                            Go pump yourself up somewhere else.

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                               Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Tried to belittle you, I rather think I've been doing it successfully thank you. I may not have much but I do have my pride. If you don't like to hear the truth and see the obvious pointed out to you then get to steppin. Don't want holes being shot in your logic then stop replying. Don't want people to tear apart your arguments then learn to write some more Hubs.

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                                  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  Are you ready to talk about a subject now? I will let you get the last word in(hence your pride will be fed).

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                                     Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                     Sure here's something I was thinking about last night. As a Christian we are taught and encouraged to live apart from this world and told that the world will hate us because we are not of it. However is that really possible? How are we to effect change in the world by isolating ourselves from it. How can we deny a world we are up to our necks in? How does anyone serve God and his creation by separating themselves from it?

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    Most Christians can teach their children about Santa Claus and Jesus at the same time, one does not negate the other especially when Santa Claus is based on a Christian saint. It's the same as many Christians can believe in evolution and God at the same time.

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       sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, how many "Christian" families pray in thanks to the Lord on Christmas day. How many stress that their gift in not sufficient. How many feel that they cannot afford this crazy fat man every winter.
       
       looks pretty vain from the outside looking in. But then who would forgive you if you didn't partake? my familly hate that I do not exchange gifts. ohh well- I will hang out with them and bring praise to the Lord.

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          Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well in my family it is a great time where we all get together (uncles, aunts, cousins, friends) and spend some quality time together, both Christmas eve and day. Sometimes I go with my mom and her friend to a beautiful midnight mass. Each person in my family sponsors a child for the holidays (from the local outreach program) that we visit before Christmas to have a meal, play games, and give presents. Christmas is what you make of it. I'm sorry that you think it is a worthless holiday, but in my family it isn't.

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    getitriteposted 14 years ago

    Both Jesus and Saint Nicholas existed, but neither was endowed with the superhuman powers that have been attributed to them.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    Why take something nice and happy, something that brings people together in love, and try and make it an ugly thing?

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       Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Because some people are bored? Can't accept that someone doesn't believe what they do? I dunno, just a couple guesses.

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          It's SLS
          Sunday Lonely Syndrome

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    A Texanposted 14 years ago

    Santa Claus isn't real? WTF!!!

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       spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    I thought the practice of giving gifts spawned from the 3 wise men bringing gifts to the baby Jesus?
    
    I admit it, some people go overboard at Christmas and spend way too much money. I personally don't.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Mixed with Santa

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    as a father i know this truth. there is a Santa .your looking at him right now. and i never caused anyone to become a atheist.my sons are grown men now  . i miss the days when they were young ripping open gifts by the tree. i miss playing with toys and assembling bikes . building racetracks  and lego sets till the wee hours of Christmas night.

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       awareposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    What about the tree? why do we adorn a tree? (there is an answer)
    
    
    What day was Jesus born on? - guess what, we don't know exactly. Guess why? It is not significant, but it was not even in December.
    
    Look, follow whatever pegan holidays that you wish. but learn why you do what you do.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       We all know that that's not jesus birth day of course. You think because atheists don't believe they don't know anything ? what a shallow way of thinking !
       We celebrate christmas like a family celebration. an excuse to get together, if you like. that's all.

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Tantrum,
          
          your back and forth sway of emotions and assumptions is tiring.

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             So go and take a nap !

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                sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Scott has said that "I" have an agenda; you act hurt sometimes but are quick to attack, and I think your agenda is to ruin any conversation that you are not interested in.
                
                My comment about those lacking depth was aimed at you. debating and "stabbing" are 2 diff. things.
                
                why don't you let me reveal what a nut I am for a while.

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                   tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I didn't know you were paying attention to me !
                   You don't need to ask for my permision, I think !
                   You reveal all the time what a nut you are !

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                      sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I pay attention to you all of the time beautiful. thanks, sir nut.

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       dejajolieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Contradiction, you said we don't know the day Jesus was born but then you said IT WAS NOT DECEMBER.....case in point, you don't have all the answers just pretend to.

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    And I responded to your statement and you don't want to acknowledge that Christmas can be a good thing in some families. Whether you believe it is a "pagan" holiday or not doesn't matter to me. Again people not acknowledging what others feel or believe and thinking their way is the only right way.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    I know that most of our Christmas traditions are based on pagan rites and holidays. The days we celebrate Christian religious observances like Christmas and All Saints Day were chosen to replace and incorporate pagan holidays, it was a way to get people to convert to Christianity by replacing their pagan celebrations with Christian ones.

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       sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Uninvited,
       what you said here is very important.

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          Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes - the Christian religion is stolen from other previous religions and has no basis in anything other than deception and money making.
          
          Deep?
          
          My pet goldfish is deeper than you.

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes ! It brings forward the ways Christianity uses to convert people to their faith

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    While replacing the pagan observances, they also allowed people to incorporate some of those traditions.

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    sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

    Let's see here, my dad was Santa Clause, he is basically an atheist though at times sway towards agnosticism.... so yes Santa Clause is an Atheist.
    
    Can we call it Athemast?

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       awareposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       lol sandra you silly girl you. ? wasn't is Santa a atheist it is dose Santa cause atheism

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          sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          lol, yes I am a silly girl.    Saunta Clause could only cause Atheism if people believed that Santa Clause was god and found out he was not...right?

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             awareposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             right .  the silly girl thing  was me being silly . your cool by me

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                sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Me too

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    Now, back on subject.
    
    Babylon was a city, as mentioned by more than one sorce(bible).
    This "fairy" tale was mentioned in the Ebla Tablets, by the egyptians, romans and many other ancient civilizations familiar with the region.
    
    You have been taught maybe that time erases history or makes it irrelevant?

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    sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

    Why does Santa Clause call everyone a Ho?

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    trust me on this one kids dont give a crap about adult ideology as to the origin of Christmas. Or its supposed religious significance. wheres the god dam toys? this better not be another sweater .

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       sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       or socks!

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    i would love you to run this thread by a group of kids.what do you think they would say ? besides your crazy. lol

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    was that you i saw snatching Halloween
    candy from the kids last night?

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    its become rare

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    Univited writer,
    
    where did you go? you were the only one looking at some factual evidence- whether you agreed with the message or not, I admire your depth.

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       Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Factual evidence? Do you really admire her depth - or did she just say something you wanted to hear?

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    the scene a city mall. a line of kids await in a long line . a Santa suit is where they hope to soon sit. they know its a fake beard that's worn kids aint stupid. they know the snow  that surrounds them isnt cold. just then a frantic debunk er runs in screaming , Santa isnt real .religion has you all fooled. believe me i know . its all a myth. a little boy closest to this lunatic looks up at him and says these words. You mind? were trying to have a good time here mister. Take your ideas outside and let us see Santa. he looks to his other peers  and says can you belive this douche? what a a hole.

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    4 Scott-
    
    I am going to pull your questions individualy and give you my answer. then will you give me your answer?
    
    1. How are we to effect change in the world by isolating ourselves from it.
    My answer. We are not to pull ourselves from people, but the sin that lieth therein. For example, if I want to preach to a person in a bar- should I get liquered up so that I relate to them?
    
    2. How can we deny a world we are up to our necks in?
    when our eyes are upon the Lord, vanities, lustful feelings and all the other things a Christian fight with- become dim.
    
    3. How does anyone serve God and his creation by separating themselves from it?
    
    The separation as I see it, is the sin itself. We probably will find ourselves in places that we do not like to go.

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       Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Short answer is I don't separate myself from anything about humanity or this world. I wade through the middle of it. I have committed most of the sins we speak of and then some. The fact that I have been there and done that is what gives me credibility to inmates, soldiers, bikers, and all walks of life. How many times have I heard someone tell me that they have no respect for preachers ministers and evangelist who have no experience with the people they are trying to reach. I will recognize Heaven when I get there because I walked through hell on the way.

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          so do you live in sin to experience it, so that your testimony may be stronger? that is what I am gathering. correct me if I'm wrong.

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             Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             No I have lived in sin and I continue to sin despite my best efforts. Though I recognize it, and also my weaknesses. I don't point fingers at people because I have been where they are and know how futile the judgmental attitude of religion is to these people. Trying to scare people to faith is a waste of time, and merely a tool of those who discriminate.
             
             You want to show someone you believe in a benevolent forgiving God try showing it with your actions and words. Then you might be surprised at who comes to you asking about this God you live for. Or you could just chase them off with your criticism and disdain.

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                sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No I agree, we could all learn how to witness better. I honestly was a bit taken in these forums becuase people do not hold back punches. Then I fell right into it.
                
                When I talk to people in the world, I have the ability to look them in the eye- and no matter what they may be thinking, they don't say such outward things. probably out of respect, but honestly face to face witnessing is really effective. Sinner background or not.

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    what am i chopped liver here? im spinning a web for santas sake can i at least get a  lol?

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       lol

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    ty i feel better now

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    Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

    You want to minister to a drunk, you don't need to be drunk, but understanding why he is driven to drink and run from reality might help. want to talk about God to an Atheist, knowing why they reject God may help, as telling them they're wrong, sinning, and lost is only going to defeat the message before you even start. You don't have to condone sin, or allow it, but understanding it is the key to overcoming it.

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    this might be a bit off topic but i can answer any question asked in 5 words or less. not math tho.

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       Niteriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Who is God?

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    sooner than laterposted 14 years ago

    Scott "How many times have I heard someone tell me that they have no respect for preachers ministers and evangelist who have no experience with the people they are trying to reach."
    
    Scott, it is my oppinion that these people should be most interesting to the non-believer. Two types of preachers are needed. John was one who did not dabble in the "world" and look at his success.

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       Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You're assuming that John always practiced what he preached and second that he lived without sin. This isn't possible as we know only Jesus was without sin. Maybe John's life of hardship and sin is what inspired him to change and renewal, as to where that got him was execution.
       
       How are you going to tell people about overcoming hardships and sin, and finding God's forgiveness if you've led a pampered charmed life? How is a pacifist and person who's never killed or seen war going to tell me how bad life as a soldier is? Even the disciples began as normal men living in the world. If they had chosen to separate themselves from the world then they would have been at Qumran with the Essenes or at the temple with all the other religious fanatics that thought they were above the world.

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          sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          John died in Ephesus, not slaughtered but in peace. Of corse he sinned, but the bible doesn't mention it. He was upright and probably unaware of the sins he ever did commit. People loved to hear a man who lived like this talk.

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             Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             You must be talking about John the apostle I thought you meant John the baptist.

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    gods not a who

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    Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

    The devil has only the power that you give him over your life. To Christians, Muslims, and Jews, the Devil is a representation of weakness and doubt. The point being the more you doubt the less good you can accomplish. You don't need to believe in God to see that this is true in life.
    
    Likewise Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Halloween are all just creations of man. They have no power over faith or belief other then what we give them. To those that honestly feel threatened by such things I contend that you need to examine yourself first for weakness. Those of strong faith would not be concerned by things they know are ultimately harmless and powerless in the light of God. Nonetheless we see thread after thread of people trying to blame inanimate things, ideas, and even holidays for what amounts to nothing more then doubt and fear. You feel bad about doubting certain things. Who can blame you, most of religion would tell you that doubt is a lack of faith.
    
    I say doubt is honesty, and being truthful. God understands your doubt as he gave it to you. To deny it is to say it is beyond God's knowledge. The Atheist has Doubts. They see the world around them, the world they are part of and in, and they wonder and ask questions. they see a disparity between what God is and what religion tells them it is, and they doubt.This isn't a sin its called being human. Thomas doubted and for it he was given answers not condemnation.
    
    I have yet to see an Atheist deny God, but say I just can't believe it.It doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up. Doubt is the sincerest expression of honesty and intimacy. The night before his crucifixion Christ went to his knees and asked that this cup be taken away. he prayed for strength and the will to continue. That's honesty, and truth. "I don't want to die, but I will to accomplish something bigger then myself."

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       sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       See, I can't agree with most of this. some is right to me, but the holiday stuff has its place. "Come out of her my people" was talking about spiritual Babylon. The city of confusion was Babylon and the time of confusion is now. Scott, do you believe that we can always dig deeper into the scripture? Once I leaned that there is endless depth, 400 new doors opened.

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          Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah we can always dig deeper, I don't think literally though, but historically, and in language. reading a Greek and Hebrew bible once really opened my eyes to how poorly English conveys the message and changes word meaning. I don't encourage people who try to impose modern thinking, customs, and language onto Biblical teaching to find meaning. This collection of books and moral lessons were written long long ago, in a very different time. Though inspired by God, it was still written by men and reflects their beliefs superstitions passions and education. After all God created Adam, and inspired life, but the moment free will came into play that went to pot. This is a confusing time, but had you lived in any other century I would be willing to say you'd have felt the same too.

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             sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             confusion that I see stems from an explosion of new churches, the things that we are taught from the media, and the watering of scripture. The bible that I read, fits into todays society just fine. Sure I had to learn some differences in lifestyle, but that was fun. My hub about sheep for example- gives the idea of a shepherd then and now. which there are major differences.

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                Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yeah I read your hub, I've read them all, but they are in the end an extension of your beliefs and point of view. I see many of your points and understand that we have had vastly different lives and experiences, so while I do not agree with alot you say, I see where you are coming from, just as i see where Atheists come from.

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    ok  a quick poem
    well god its not a he
    god  its not a she
    god is so much bigger
    than both could hope to be
    well i know what god is
    its a three letter word
    a word that words cant ever
    three letters that cant be defined

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       Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Catchy

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    awareposted 14 years ago

    good one? its right of my tounge

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