I guess I get kind of annoyed when I constantly hear many conservatives say that Democrats get their votes from people who only want to retain their Government benefits.
I can think of a lot of people that would be concerned about maintaining benefits that: federal pensioners, retired military, social security recipients, medicare, etc. Lets not forget the Active military and the federal work force.
This presupposes that the Conservatives have such altruistic natures and do not vote for things solely in their interest. Really? What about the cultural conservatives, or the gun rights people? What about ideas of less federal regulation, that would benefit them and their businesses but impose burdens on the rest of us. What about the massive military outlay that enriches the corporate classes at the expense of the rest of us.
Our Constitution support the idea of one man/one vote. It does not speak of 'money' as being the equivalent of political selections made by the ballot.
So why are conservatives different?
Oh my! You have been nipping from my martini pitcher haven't you?
What a mess.
When conservatives speak of Dems getting their votes from entitlement voters do you really think it is those folks you mentioned that they have in mind? I would think it is the welfare safety net programs they speak of.
Of course folks vote in their own interests relative to social issues, Right and Left. Would you expect it to be otherwise?
Also, our Constitution does not speak of "one man one vote." It speaks of proportional representation. I think it was the Court that that coined the term when it addressed that issue.
Drawing on my admittedly poor memory, let me ask you to revisit some of your thoughts on that "Democrats get their votes from people who only want to retain their Government benefits" point relative to your perceptions of your time in Hawaii.
Who they have in mind, according to Romney that was 47% of the American electorate?
I don't think that many people are on 'welfare'.
Of course folks vote their interests, it is just when I hear conservatives talk the progressives interests are selfish and theirs are not.
My point is that everyone has the right to vote, regardless of why they vote for the candidates they do. Thanks, you are right about the courts coining the phrase.
Yep, I have had problems with the Hawaii (Big Island) social services net, as it is more of a hammock. But there are no jobs, and people vote to sustain a system that enhances their survival under that circumstance. That is not unnatural. If you have a problem with it, you can move elsewhere. As the people have spoken, as to how they want county resources applied in that county.
Last government statistics noted 51% of the population of U S don't pay taxes. Maybe not welfare, but not doing well
Don't pay federal income tax. But there are other taxes that they do pay. Sales tax, state income taxes for example. There are a lot of 'fat cats' that don't pay along with deductions for whatever reasons and elderly and others that simply do not have the income to tax.
"I don't think that many people are on 'welfare'."
Did you include those getting food stamps? Free/reduced lunch for their kids? Obamacare subsidies? Section 8 housing? Free/reduced health care for their kids? Free/reduced utility bills? Free cell phones? Help with day care? Free mass transit? There are a thousand ways to get what you are "entitled" to from government programs and it should not surprise you that half the country gets something (I do not include SS, unemployment insurance, etc. that you have paid for).
Getting something is not universal welfare....
I imagine that you are getting something as well, so what is it?
The state pays my wages but I work many more hours in a week then what they actually pay me for. Otherwise, I don't get anything from the government.
Thank you for that, the public sector still provides you with your means of support. You have a job, that is alot in my opinion, with all the benefits afforded public sector employees.
Sorry, I didn't explain that well. The state pays a privet agency that employees me, they pay me the bulk and keeps a small part of the money for operation costs. I don't get benefits from the government, or paid by them directly. Sorry about that.
The government decides how many hours I can work per day and get paid for. Believe me, I am not complaining, I am grateful.
This is a straight shoot, Colorfulone.
You are a government contractor, your job is funded by taxpayer funds from the State coffers.
I am glad that you are gainfully employed.
No, I contracted with a privet agency that contracts with the state. I'm not a state employee, and do not get any extras for free. As I said, I work many more hours (many more hours) per week than I actually get paid for, the state sets the hours that I can get paid for though. Its a 24/7 job.
But are you not an employee of this private agency, this agency having a government contract which is funded by the State that you work under providing the funding for you as an employee?
Having worked in government contracting, I know contractors are squeezing nickels and pennies to keep costs within the level of what the contractor bid the job for. But there are Dept of Labor provisions and clauses in the body such contracts that require overtime compensation and prescribe hours of work for their employees.
My Mom is actually my employer, she hired me through a privet agency as her PCA. She is 89 years old and has Alzheimer's Disease and cannot live alone. It is cheaper for the state to provide care for her in the home, where she prefers to be, rather than the high costs of a nursing home.
Its what I would be doing anyway for my Mom, but its nice to get paid something for it as well. I was close to giving up on getting anything for my service because of the bureaucracy, what a pain that was..but worth the headache.
Thankfully, my Mom's homecare is being taken care of by the state in a dignified manor because of her age and because she is home-bound. She's a saint and deserves the best care possible.
And gives something back (labor) in return. What does the government get back for the food stamps given out?
So given that you are an older fellow you are not receiving anything from the state that is not subsidized by others?
I get no money (except the SS that I paid for several times over), no services and no products. Now that medicare (that I paid for) has kicked in I don't even get a subsidy for federally mandated purchases that I could not afford (Obamacare).
Then you are quite unique. I bet that your neighbor could not say the same.
Conservatives were against SS when FDR proposed it back in '35. I bet you are glad those liberals Roosevelt and LBJ got those programs enacted, otherwise you would be in trouble now. That is unless you were a stock broker and could have saved enough for your retirement.
Have you ever received unemployment compensation at the lost of a job? What about workmans comp?
Look at the subsidies, mortgage deductions, deductions for dependents, why should these people not pay their fair share under the terms of your universe?
Sure thing! I get SS, which I paid dearly for for 40 years only to find politicians had "invested" it extremely unwisely (spending it on their pet projects) and I thus have very little left.
Other than that, nothing.
Big tax bills. Big fines for watering my yard, and burning on spare the air days to name just a little of what I get.
The entitlements of corporate America were" not voted" in by conservative voters , Nor were the extremely rapid expansions of the government entitlement jobs voted into place. Conservatives are about the very language and terminology of Conserving ! Small non- intrusive central government , LOWER taxation , a strong presence in military protectionism .
It is the liberal nanny state of mind that has increased taxations , diminished personal liberties , driven the social revolutions that formed the two -parent working necessity ! Jesus ......where does it end with liberal gimmes ? When will you be happy ? ---------- When liberal junior's grandchildren have a guaranteed minimum income .
Yes , no longer the conserving , minimum wage or basic social services ! Liberals won't be happy until there are essentially no taxes , no jobs required and a guaranteed nanny state federal government regular monthly check ,. There used to be a time when a government job even , meant lower pay but longer term retirement benefits . That changed completely with liberal causes ,unions , expanded services , expanded government employee-ship , cell phone distribution ,"earned income " tax breaks for larger families who get back from IRS way more than they pay in ., As if "earned " were a term that any liberal that I know fully understood the meaning of !
You know I'm right - give it up !
We have reached the point where people are voting for cake and circuses. The few who stand on principal are called nasty names. What sounds like good things to vote for always pass in California. The problem is we have been voting the same things repeatedly. In 1972 we voted to increase the sales tax to bring the train to our area. I personally have seen this come up 3 other times. Still there is no train. - The good people of our town just voted a bond to help schools. All school money goes through the state coffer. The state takes what it wants then tells the schools they get about 1/2. The money is coming from an increase in property taxes. The average property owner increased their property taxes by $24/ hundred thousand property tax assessment. There were three bonds with assessments like that which passed. I estimate my property taxes on 2 small houses will increase nearly $800 this year. Most won't know why their bill increased.
There is no difference between conservatives and others. Mostly because information is not true . Our voter guide says on page 2 the information in the book may be accurate or not. Heard a song this morning. God is great, beer is good and people are crazy. Pretty much sums life in the US
thanks, Tirelesstraveller. Waste, fraud and abuse is not acceptable from either side. Where has all the money gone? Who is to be held accountable?
Part of it goes to commissions that were originally set up to last a couple of years and 35 years later someone is still being paid to keep the office open. There is lots of that kind of thing. There is also the shell game with educational money. Lotto was for schools. They gave the lotto money to schools and took the school money for th general fund.
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