Is there a limit to pampering China and Pakistan?

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   thirdmilleniumposted 14 years ago

   Why do subsequent administrations turn a blind eye to their transgressions?

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's because China own us and Pakistan has the bomb.

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         tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         China does not "own us," and the Pakistani government currently cannot and would not use the nuclear weapons it has on the US.

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            rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            China owns our debt and they finance our dubious wars. If that is not beholding to someone I don't know what is.  That is why we pamper them when it comes to human rights and slave labor laws.  We can't be getting in the way of the cheap accessible labor market to feed our Walmarts and Target stores.
            
            As far as the bomb goes you get a great deal of respect when your country joins the bomb club.  Look how well it has worked and is being worked by tyrants like Ahmadinijad and Jong-Il.  North Korea got nuclear power plants from it from Clinton and Iran is working their magic in getting concessions lifted and a say in the regions politics.
            
            Pakistan is a whole other subject and while they may not pose a threat to the US directly there is evidense to support the bomb is making them a credible player in the region for an aliance.  This is why we just don't invade them going after Al Qaeda.
            
            Have you heard any of this before?

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               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               This is all lovely rhetoric, but entirely empty. The old boys in Beijing do not have an oversized check book they sign that says "Dubious US Wars."

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                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Well the figures show that we owe te Chinese 798 Billion dollars in unsecured debt which is 23.35% the total debt owed.  They are our highest holder of our debt.
                  
                  You should read this:
                  
                  http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Busi … 1Cb06.html
                  
                  As far as financing our wars you should check it out for yourself.
                  
                  Do I have to tell you everything.

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                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  No but they hold a large part of our debt and are willing to gamble on us to get part of it back.  Really where have you been?

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                     tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     So they do, for what they recognize as their own best interests. It has nothing to do with specific actions the US government takes, as evidenced by the fact that China very often disagrees strongly with actions the US government takes.

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               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               This also makes no sense. The US government does not hire cheap labor out of China, private US businesses do and even that isn't as simple as "cheap labor" (not slave labor).
               
               We do nothing about their human rights record but talk because we practically can do little else.

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                  kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  We can vote with our wallets and not buy from those stores who use labor so cheep as to be thought of as slave labor.....
                  I am found of buying from charity shops for cheep clothing n such, supports a good charity and I often find real treasures that way!

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                     tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Cheap labor is NOT "slave labor," and I find that an irresponsible use of language.
                     
                     
                     In any case, good luck not buying anything made in China.

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                        rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        What do you consider slave labor? Is $0.28 an hour that you consider just cheap labor? That is an average of what they make and a lot of them are children.

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                           tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           You know what the word "slave" means, right?

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                              rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Why don't you look it up under slave labor in Asia.  I am tired of educating you when all you do is repeat party and patriotic rhetoric.
                              
                              Do you really operate with such blinders on all the time?

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                                 tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't need to look up the actual meaning of the actual word, and I've see the actual labor in Asia, thanks.

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                                    rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Okay then I get it,  comprehension is your problem.

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                                       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       The problem is not with me.

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                                          rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          I did not think you could place youself in this scenario.  It would take a little humility.  None of which I have ever seen you express.

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                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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                  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  What were you saying about an economics lesson?

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               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               No, that's not why.

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                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Then you tell me why.

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                     tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     We don't invade them because they are a Democracy and an important ally in the region.

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                        janni321posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Is this a kind of joke on democracy?
                        Pakistan is an important ally thats true but why? this is the real question. Everyone knows whats going on in Pakistan but US still following ''see no evil'' rule in pakistan and for your kind information it never had a real democracy so find reason other than democracy

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                           AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Hopefully you don't invade whoever because you have got no freaking right to invade anyone! Jeeesh

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                              tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              That depends on circumstance.

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                                 AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Wrong, wrong, wrong. This stuff is really scary, and absolutely no joke. You have got no more right to invade another country than another country has the right to invade you. Was it right for Iraq to invade Kuwait? Was it right for the Soviets to invade Afghanistan? But this is going to veer off into a large debate; just suffice to say, invading other countries is extremely dangerous; not least because it ends up generating a whole bunch of terrorists out of people who wouldn't have been terrorists if you'd left them alone. But, as I say, this is a very large topic...

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                                    tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Right, right, right. Is this the part where I ask if it was ok to invade Germany during WWII and you say no that was different and we go 'round and 'round?

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                                       AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       true enough

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                                       rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       There was a declaration of war involved if you can recall. And when did the US become the morality police?

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                                          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          There was an actual state involved as I recall, and much of the world has demanded the US be the morality police (or in the case of Europe, silent sentry) for a looooong time.

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                                             rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             Who told you that? We have no business patrolling the world and inflicting our interests and views than any other country has. What an arrogant and elitest thing to profer.

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                                                tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                People from all over this world.

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                                                   rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   That's a good one.  Was it a whole lot of people or just enough?

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                                                      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      A great many people.

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                                                         tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                         Many thousands of people from every corner of the globe.

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                                                            rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                            LOL You got me. That was a joke.  See we can get along.

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                                                               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                               No joke at all.

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                                                                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                  TK I really have to go and I just did not want you to think I dumped you.  It has been as always a TK world.

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                                                                     tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     Probably a good idea. This is not going well for you.

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                                 rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 That statement is right in line with the Bush Doctrine.  Maybe you can consult with Sarah Palin and the both of you can learn more about it.

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                              janni321posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              At least you have the right to invade the terrorist countries like Pakistan which is more dangerous than Iraq and Afganistan! ''Jeeeeeesh''

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                           tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           No.

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                           tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I know, that's why I said it. And it's also a Democracy in a place where we want to encourage Democracy.

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                              AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Well. I don't know. I wonder what "we" really know about places thousands and thousands of miles away. But doubtless the Pakistanis themselves quite like democracy...

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            rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It must be true cause you say so.

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               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               No, just because it is so.

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      dyonderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know if it's as much turning a blind eye as misinterpretation and confusion about different cultures. Take for example the manner in which Japan infiltrated America. Their way of doing business was, well it was foreign for us here in the states and they easily swept through American business transforming our economy. Not good or bad, it just happened, changing the way we (Americans) do business. That's just in the economic context, but it extends to the socio-political sphere as well. No country can truly be isolationist because that only invites, in a way even demands, trade in the black market & other underground channels. Even as we condemn, or conversely accept another country's behavior, or culture, we invite others to either perpetuate or work to halt behavior we may find disagreeable. May the best man/woman (read speices) win. Not the 'good' one, but the one(s) with the survival skills, whatever they may be for that particular climate.

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   tksenseiposted 14 years ago

   Because both countries are very important to us.

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      AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ...and if you refused to do business with every country that committed transgressions of any seriousness, you'd be trading with Denmark, Mauritius, and Togo, and that'd be it. (which doesn't excuse it, but at some point there is a practicality issue)

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   cashmereposted 14 years ago

   There is some caution needed in dealing with both, that I agree with.

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   earnestshubposted 14 years ago

   Yes there is a limit when pandering to China and Pakistan.
   America too. They may put you in power then do a "regime change" on your sorry ass!

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      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Keep it in mind down there under.

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   Shalini Kagalposted 14 years ago

   Maybe the answers to 'What happens if we don't pander to them?' are a bit too difficult to contemplate?

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   Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

   America is not really in a position to negotiate with China.  What pampering of Pakistan?  Not sure what you mean by this.

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      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Of course we are. YOU are not.

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         Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I don't get the riddle.

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            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No riddle.

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               Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               so who is We?

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                  tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  "We" is the United States. "You" is Australia.

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                     Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Like it or not, I am not Australia and You are not the United States.
                     
                     Tell me though, please, what bargaining chips do the US have against China.  China bought billions of US debt, they provide the supply for US demand.  Why does China care about the US?  Tell me.

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                        tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        What country are you a citizen of?

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                           Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           You are failing to see the point.   But just to keep you entertained I am a citizen of Australia and Britain.

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                              tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              So you are an Australian citizen with an anachronistic fealty to Britain. Is the "riddle" solved?

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                                 Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I am a citizen of Australia and Britain, no riddle.

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                        C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        We buy all of their JUNK!LOL

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                           Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, we established that
                           
                           But now America has no money and China has all the US debt so where does that leave the junk trade?

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                              tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              America is still the largest economy in the world by far, but 14th or so ain't bad...

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                                 Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 awesome news, thanks for raising my awareness yet again.

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                                 rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Built on debt.  Nothing tangible as proven by the mortgage failings.

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                                    tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    That is incorrect and terribly simplistic.

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                                       rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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                              C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              No money???? We will just print more and they will buy more junk bonds so we can buy their junk....who's the bigger idiot? Besides if China calls the debt, the US won't be able to pay. What are they going to do????? Its a wash is what it is. It only really means we can't tell them what to do in regards to Tibet, Tiawan or Hong Kong... which we shouldn't do anyway.

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                                 rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Well China could begin to do what Japan did and that is to start buying up some of our banks and industries.  This would give them a foothold and influence that could undermine even our smaller business'.  The whole issue is a mute one if you take into account the way this whole trade relationship exists.  We lazy Americans in an effort to not do the the smaller menial jobs associated with manufacturing have elected to allow American business to ship those jobs overseas so that we can do the more prized service oriented jobs that require less manual labor.  Paper handeling and financial jobs as well as technology jobs is where we are headed. Forget the debt, times will be better is the mantra we have heard for years and are still sold on.

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                                    tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    LOL!!!
                                    
                                    What sort of issue is it?
                                    
                                    
                                    LOL!!!

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                                    tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    "We" are anything but lazy.

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                                       Denno66posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Agreed.

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                                       rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       You think so.  How did we let Mexican labor overtake the job market? And what have unions done to assure that skilled labor rises above unskilled.  You make the same no matter your skill level in the unions.  Seniority is what pays.  I could go on and on about this including people paid to not plow their fields and how often someone is paid medical disability never to return to working a lesser job.
                                       
                                       Are you that naive?

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                                          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          I know so.

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   Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

   China will take over soon, doesn't matter what anyone does.

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      VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Because of its size, population and economy, China cannot take over sooner or later... It will happen never.
      
      History tells us that a small nation called Japan defeated the most powerful Russian (Tsarist) empire in 1905. A small nation called Britain ruled over half of humanity. A small nation called Nepal held Tibet captive till 1959, receiving annual taxes from them.  A small country called Manipur (now in India) ruled over Burma more than a 100 years ago. Most parts of China came under Japan during WW-2.
      
      Even now, a small country called Israel faces more than 100 times its own population, ready to destroy it.
      
      No matter what their size, population is, the winners always are not the biggest and largest.

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         Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         It is fair enough to give examples of small nations that have dominated but to suggest that because of large size, large population and strong economy that China CANNOT take over... that seems a big leap

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            VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Some additional points... China is advocating a wrong side, underestimating its own neighbours, has no democracy, (which enables to take collective & proper decisions).
            
            Larger empires have fallen like cards against ruthless invaders. This region has seen everything. In the 11th and 16th century, large and wealthy empires in India were wiped out by Md.Ghori and Babar, who not even had a dwelling place. They came, they saw, they conquered. Wealth and size cannot protect anyone.   
            
            China can harass, torture, dismember or even kill only unarmed Tibetan monks. ("The Rape of Shangri la") They cant come out of their borders and do it. For strange reasons, the world keep silence on these points, while it sees "human right violations" in petty cases in other countries.

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               AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The world is not silent on the persecution of Tibetans, I don't agree with that statement, and within China, most of us know there are human rights violations -- now, whether governments refuse to do business with the Chinese as a result is a different question...
               
               As I wrote earlier, who would you have left to do business with if you didn't do business with countries that have committed atrocities - look what Canada did to its aboriginal peoples, look how Britain dominated people with "iron fist in velvet glove" -- who are you going to do business with: Russia???
               
               No, I think perhaps that business and economic ties can be *leverage* to pressure China and other countries to shape up: of course, our Western politicians don't *actually* care about human rights in any case. *That* is the real problem

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   Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

   On another note, Australia is the number 1 supplier of Iron ore to China.

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      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And your next biggest buyer is...?
      
      
      
      ...Exactly

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         Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, China.  What are you getting at?

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            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That's why YOU are in no position to negotiate.

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               Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               What seems to be the issue here?
               
               Australia owns a large source of primary resources that China wants.  The US owns what?
               
               Are you lost?

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   Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

   I have made this clear many times before, I like China.  I hope they take over the world.  The fact Australia supplies Iron ore to China is a good thing.  What is it you are trying to reveal here?  What bargaining weight does US have with China?

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      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Don't hold your breath,'mate.'

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         Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You still fail to answer the question.  What power does America hold over China?

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         Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Allow me to rephrase, I will be glad when China takes over the world.  It is not a matter of hope, all evidence makes it obvious.

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            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Don't hold your breath, pengyou.

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      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      YOU depend on China because they are your biggest (and an indispensable) customer. China depends on the US as its biggest customer. I hope this isn't too complicated.

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    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    America's custom is almost a fairy tale now seeing how it is so broke.  China has a huge savings account so I don't see that as an issue.

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL! Stay tuned for a biiiiig economics lesson!

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          Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          From you?  Not holding my breath...

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             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             From life.

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                Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Wisen up

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                   tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Stay tuned, pengyou.

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    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    I base my conclusions on evidence, what do you base yours on?  Besides patriot extremism.

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    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    Why don't you give me this economics lesson now?

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Oh no, it will have much more impact when it washes over you (if you are in a position to recognize it when the time comes).

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          Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          As I figured.

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             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Stay tuned. Remember.

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    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    Look at it this way, America has functioned for a long time without anything to offer the world, besides arms and custom.  If China takes over, it cannot do the same thing?  You believe China needs the US?
    
    Think about it hypthetically, China takes over, still maintains all its current business interests, plus takes over the role of dominant power.  Not difficult.

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Wrong. I'm sorry if America makes Australia feel insignificant. It need not, in my opinion.

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          Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Get this right, I am not Australia, I do not base my individual worth on the economic cards of the national government.  Your suggestion is no more than a joke to me.

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             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             You are Australian, despite your odd attempts to avoid mentioning it for so long. And good for you that you are. Seems like a nice place.

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                Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I am Australian, yes.  I am not sure what you are getting at now.  I have mentioned my nationality previously, well before this forum topic.  I do recall intentionally not mentioning it at one point a few weeks back.  You still side step the point. 
                
                So far as Australia being insignifcant in world politics, well yes, of course!  That is one of its benefits.  It is a nice place for some reasons, not so nice for others.  I am not Australia tho, I just live here.

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                   tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Yes, I know. That's why I said it.

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                      Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      ???

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       There is absolutely no doubt, whether you recognize it or not. Just like you are dependent upon China and therefore in a position of subservience.

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    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    It must be a lonely place to be, holding all this wisdom to yourself, seeing as how the rest of the world just wouldn't understand.

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    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    awwwww, I was starting to enjoy that.
    
    Oh well...
    
    Till next time.

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    kirstenblogposted 14 years ago

    I hope I am not intruding, this conversation has been fun to read
    
    As for what america has offered the world, well there is more then guns and American customers (custom) We also have offered the world Mc Donalds and other fine fast foods, not to mention an industry of cool that has seen the rise of the tween. Global American imports like fast food and cool trendy ways to waste money are loved by the rest of the world, right?
    
    Back the the original question, I don't know what Pakistans deal is, do they have nukes? That would make em dangerous enough to pamper.
    
    As for China, well they own Americas debt, they have the upper hand now. Growing up I was taught that being in debt to someone means they own a piece of you, owe money to the bank and they kinda own you. Think about the old company store, workers had to borrow against their earnings to buy the tools they needed to do the job as well as the food and other goods they needed to survive, workers were nothing more then slaves to the company store. I believe there was a song with the line "I owe my soul to the company store". Personally I have never taken out a loan or gotten a credit card, the only money I have ever owed anyone was to close friends who were more like family then my real family, and they usually told me to forget about it or offered some easy to way to pay em back.

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       Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Sixteen tons and what do you get? /Another year older and deeper in debt. /St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go /I owe my soul to the Company Store.

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    Paragliderposted 14 years ago

    However, America is in a position to negotiate with China. Their strong (though very negative) card is the promise not to go belly up without paying back some of the debt. They have the power to say be nice to me or I'll go bankrupt on you!

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       kirstenblogposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Good point!
       To bad that didn't work between the banks and the sub-prime mortgages. Be nice to SP Mortgagers or else the whole thing will collapse

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       VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Because of the economic weakness, America will never succumb to China. If that is so, here in Pakistan, there is nothing called economy. Its whole ruling apparatus is hanging on American and other muslim countries' financial help. It never gets any loan from others... only "aid".  In that position, it bargains with America, China and the terrorists. They are already bankrupt but that country is pulling on. Why not America? Its economy is not bad as others imagine. Even now, it is the strongest.

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       Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Valid point.  However, this imposes the necessary question, will the US be able to pay such a debt.  Whether China and the US go to war it may not be a case of economic relations between those two but necessary due to other conflicts of interest.  If the US is going bankrupt anyway... the are more significant causes that could lead to war.

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18. 59

    tksenseiposted 14 years ago

    It's unfortunate that the 98lbs. weaking so often feels that if the big strong guy who has been protecting him for so long were to fall and break his leg that would make the weakling stronger.
    
    Doesn't work that way.

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       Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The big brother card...again.  Carry on...

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19. 60

    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    I cannot dream up a worse case scenario than America continuing its reign.

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    1. 59

       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       As I was saying...
       
       
       
       

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       1. 60

          Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          ???

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20. 60

    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    A false economy will only last so long...

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       C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thats true. America isn't the only one out there thats been playing fast and loose.

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21. 60

    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    It is the Prime example.

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    1. 56

       C.J. Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       A prime example of a country that doesn't want to deal with it....

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22. 59

    tksenseiposted 14 years ago

    It is highly irresponsible, and quite offensive, to misuse the word "slave" to exaggerate a political position.

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    1. 60

       Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It seems you are on your own there tk.

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       1. 59

          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          If you want to belittle the memory of all those who have suffered (or are suffering) under real slavery in order to make some little political point, that's on you.

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             Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I choose not to ignore the slaves of now.

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             rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             The bigger question is what are you doing about making sure you understand it and how you contribute to it.
             
             You really need a reality check. Have you ever been overseas and seen what is going on?  Do you just turn away from the newspapers and television stories when this stuff is presented to you?
             
             I said it before and I will say it again, it really is a TK world for you isn't it?

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             1. 59

                tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Wow. You are really going that route? The "have you ever been overseas? Are you as worldly and enlightened as me?" route? That's embarrassing for you. Come on.

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                1. 71

                   rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   I guess the answer is no and yes an eyeball on the situation gives you a better perspective than the conjecture you draw from.  Sorry you cannot come along the same route, not my fault.

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                      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      The answer is 'yes,' and did you expect such a silly, presumptuous and arrogant attitude to aggrandize yourself in some way? Why does everyone who has ever stepped outside their village assume they are Marco-freakin-Polo?

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                      1. 71

                         rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Well the only thing I can assume from your response is the trip was not very informative.  Your inference that it is not neccessary to visit a place to get a real perspective of the situation says it all.  Sorry, it really is a TK world for you isn't it?

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                         1. 59

                            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            I'm not talking about "trips," and I don't think looking out the window of a tour bus and filing it in with prejudiced political views adds any kind of legitimacy.

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23. 60

    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    still....

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24. 60

    Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago

    We are all laughing

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25. 0

    Denno66posted 14 years ago

    Huge diapers for China, I'm afraid to say......

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       rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Why not? They make them too.

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26. 61

    VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 14 years ago

    The US is not invading Pakistan, not because it is a democracy.
    If America is sincere about democracy, it should advocate India, a perfect democracy for over 60 years. But American eyes are somewhere else. American support for terrorist Pakistan has created more trouble than good in this region.
    
    Its strategic geographical position helps Pakistan. It lies just south of the former Soviet Union's borders. It separates the oil-rich middle-east from South Asia. With a shaky political apparatus, Pakistan serves American interests! Since 1947, Pakistan has never seen a democratic government. Even if there is one, the President and Prime Minister will always be on the fear of what the army will do next, and when will the army arrest them and take over.
    
    America thinks that with Israel on the west and Pakistan on the east, it can control the oil regions. It has failed to take note of the fact that there are people in those areas, who have their own aspirations and dreams.
    
    When the buyer has some plans, why not the sellers (of oil)?

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Perfect" you say?

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          AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          No bias there, is there

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       AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Why would America advocate a sixty-year old model when it has had a model that has lasted since 1776 - and Britain the makings of a model since the Middle-Ages... Besides, in all of these examples (America, Britain, India), there is still poverty and deprivation, (in India on a horrific scale) so what good is democracy if you can't feed your kids

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          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well, 1787.

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27. 68

    waynetposted 14 years ago

    Well, that would be a lot of pampers to pamper them with, maybe some outside investors could donate some pampers to these over populated countries!!

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