Russia - China United

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  1. Ken Burgess profile image73
    Ken Burgessposted 16 months ago

    President Xi Jinping and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin were filmed saying warm goodbyes as their two-day meeting ended with China’s leader saying they were driving geopolitical change around the world. … en-for-100 … 20656.html


    1. Sharlee01 profile image90
      Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Mind-blowing Current  News... Hey, thank you for smacking us with this report... It's certainly a mind-blowing issue. I fully realize the Biden puppet show hopes all are concentrating on --- "Hey we are going to arrest Trump!" "We are keeping our promise..."  All while the country is just blowing in the wind... So much actually going on, it would actually be hard to comprehend the mess that we are in, and in such a short time. But, again thanks for posting this very important world event.

      The roots of China and Russia have become intermingled over the past years, getting stronger, and more of a threat to the US, and the world. 

      I think if one was more attentive to what was happening with these two nations over the past Biden years one would not be surprised to see the pickle we are in now.   One only needs to realize China has had an economy that even with COVID has picked up more quickly than most.   Russia has truely held its own even under the sanctions that NATO and the US slapped them with, and a costly war... 

      We now have our two biggest enemies joining together at the hip.  I mean, what can one really surmise?  What can one fear with this kind of alliance?  I know what I surmise, and fear.

      Oh forgot, so much easier to look away,  However, it would seem this problem has now jumped up and bit us in the ass.

      And we have a feeble, unintelligent puppet in the White House, and who in the hell knows what food is pulling his strings?

      So, I would surmise the alliance between Russia and China will grow quickly, and be history-making. And it will change the delicate balance of power,  and this will be very ugly for humanity.

    2. CHRIS57 profile image60
      CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I believe this is pure role play to make believe they are friends.
      No - they are not - friends.

      Before Putin started the invasion he had visited Xi and had asked for absolution.

      Putin probably said something like: "It will be over in a week. the West won´t do anything because they didn´t in 2014 and in 2008. Granted, there will be more sanctions but who cares, we had sanctions from 2014 on."

      Xi will probably have thought: "What is this fool doing? I have more urgent problems with the economy and this Corona stuff, and if he says it is a short adventure then let him go ahead. And if China benefits by bypassing sanctioned trade, all the better".

      We all know the Ukraine war developed totally different.

      But we have to understand that China shows  a totally different face when not looking at consumer goods that you buy at Wallmart. Then China is not the economic giant that a superficial view would suggest.

      Military products are not consumer products. Russia´s industry is not strong on military production and development and China is also not strong on this field. Only - Chinese are a technology generation behind (Russia). This is no strategic threat.

      In my professional career i was involved in the Aerospace industry. The world distribution of this industry (with close resemblance to the military complex) is as follows:
      40-50% North America (USA and Canada)
      30% Europe (without Russia)
      6% China
      4% Russia
      the rest for Brazil, Turkey, India..

      This is of course a different picture with products from Wallmart.  But does anyone buy tanks, rockets, fighters from Wallmart?

      Xi knows this and he also knows how secondary sanctions can harm China. Putin is full of humiliation and self pity from the decomposition of the Soviet Union. Putin´s tunnel view doesn´t or doesn´t want to see.

      And to end my thoughts: Where do you think the oil and gas exploration technology is coming from? Not from Russia and not from China. Who has the pipeline building technology? Well, China can achieve a lot with its inherent organisational skills, but without technology? Huawei and Alibaba won´t help.

      A big show for the journalists. Xi is too smart and Putin is too much in his tunnel to lift the relation to another level.

      1. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I tend to go along with that, Xi has his own model of global economic dominance so associating with Russia is not helping his image.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image73
        Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I am fairly certain this is a dated perception.

        For instance China launched more rockets into space last year than any other nation, Space X, however launched more than all nations combined.

        Before 2010, China averaged fewer than 10 rocket launches a year. The country has made significant expansions of its military space program, launching observation and communications satellites and embarking on an ambitious robotic lunar exploration program and launching a next-generation space station.

        China is outpacing the U.S. in hypersonic missiles, China’s test of a hypersonic missile over the summer “went around the world,” this was spoken about quite a lot.

        The Chengdu J-20 is China's most advanced stealth fighter jet the answer to the Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jet.

        All in all, China has caught up to, or surpassed America in the areas it has focused on, rockets, satellites, jets, etc.

        1. CHRIS57 profile image60
          CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Ken, i didn´t take my perception from the media. I was personally involved in the development of the Chinese (and Russian) aerospace industry over the past 2 decades.
          While i admit that my direct access stopped with my retirement in 2019, my perception well anticipates the very gradual pace of development.

          You mentioned the J20 fighter jet. Well - i saw the full factory plans for said jet around 2017, because my Chinese counterpart was proud and bragged and showed his ideas to my foreign longnose. 2019 i followed up and the velocity of progress is breathtakingly slow.

          I did manufacturing consulting for the Y20 program (Chinese remake of the C17 Globemaster) in 2012 ..2014. And how many of them are actually flying?

          And yes, back in the 90ties i was involved in the C17 Globemaster program and in the early 2000 in the F-35 fighter program as well, no to mention Airbus A400M and Eurofighter. So i know a little of what i am talking about and not from the media.

          Chinese can set up hundreds of e-mobility charging stations in the blink of an eye, they can build Corona hospitals in a week, but they are amazingly slow in large high tech structures like tanks, fighter jets, planes, rockets.

          The real aerospace technological bottleneck for both Russians and Chinese is engines. If i were a war contrahend to these countries i would drop a few easter eggs on engine manufacturing facilities, that should do the trick.

          Again, where is the threat?

          1. Ken Burgess profile image73
            Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            That is interesting, I will defer to your insight and experience.

            That said, I find it goes counter to what we see.

            The most efficient car companies in the world, in China (including the Tesla factory).

            Apple products as well as many other high-tech companies are, or were, made in China.

            I have seen their missiles and rockets in action, but not in person of course, through recorded events and news, which is different than your own experience.

            1. CHRIS57 profile image60
              CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              As i wrote before, it is a huge difference between volume or mass production of consumer equipment or volume production of 60 tons of military grade high tech (on the ground, in the air or in space.. or if you will under water).

              You mentioned efficient car production in China. Where is the know how and skill coming from and preserved? German brands (VW, Mercedes, BMW..) run over 50 production plants in China. GM some 15 plants, Ford some 6 plants. Japanese are a little underrepresented due to old sentiments with Japanese Empire and yes, Elon Musk is also producing in China.

              One thing is media coverage, the other is real world situation. There is no scaling up from consumer products to big toys like the M1 Abrams or the Leopard 2.

              Back to the Russian - Chinese relations and the Ukraine war.
              China lacks technology until this very day but has impressive skills in organisation. Russia has brilliant technological skills but totally lacks organisational skills. At first glance this may look like a perfect complement of skills.

              However - having been involved in joint Russo-Chinese projects like the CR929 i always noticed the uneasiness of Russian parties when talking to their Chinese counterparts. Russians  understand, they are the junior partner, if partner is even the right expression. Not a good start for lifting relations to a new level. At least that is what  recent media coverage suggests.

              1. Ken Burgess profile image73
                Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                OK, let's work with your perspective on the matter.  It certainly coincides with what I understand China's own self assessment to be. 

                China's desire to displace America was not to come to fruition until well after 2030.  Some plans stated 2049.  This corresponds well with your views on where they are today... Not ready to take on America.


                I think China, and the world, sees the weakness in America today that was not there during our last major mobilization, Iraq.

                In fact, as much as we hear in America how weak Russia looks being held at bay by the much smaller Ukraine... The leaders of the world know that America trained and prepared Ukraine for this, for years.  America has provided covert military support, has given Ukraine intelligence, weapons, everything but openly deploy its own forces into Ukraine and fight the war full on.

                Despite this and despite the sanctions, Russia is still going strong and no closer to losing the war than they were after the first week... Or so it seems.

                My question being, if you have such a low opinion of China's current ability to mass produce missiles, jets, etc.  where does America's current ability to do so stand, and do you feel it has the economic and political will to see through the scale of conflict that will be necessary to defeat Russia and it's supporters?

                1. Coltonlarsen1975 profile image59
                  Coltonlarsen1975posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Grotesque the way you support Russia and China

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image73
                    Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    You misinterpret the point of this thread.

                    While I disagree with almost every major move the Biden administration has made regarding foreign affairs, discussing the current situation for what it is, based on facts as I know them, is not the same as supporting Russia and China.

                    For context:

                    In this documentary there is a great deal of information from across a spectrum of perspectives, Polish, German, Historical, etc. regarding Ukraine... but I only want you to pay attention to Part VII: Prelude to War, which begins at the 1:03:00 mark (an hour into it).


                    Having a base understanding of Ukraine history helps, this is as short yet informative documentary as I could easily find:


                    Now back in 2014, who was the instrument of the revolution, the overthrow of the government in Ukraine?:





                    You can spend a lot of time learning about Ukraine and Russia's entwined history, and how America directly became involved in what is going on there, covertly prior to the 2014 revolution and very openly afterward:

                    Biden's Visit in 2014, his third in a 7 month stretch:

                    Understanding what is happening and why, who is profiting from it, who is pushing for it and why, matters:



                    Now lets consider the deepening China - Russia alliance (the point of this thread):

                    A month before Xi went to Russia to meet with Putin:
                    Three days ago:

                    And Saudi Arabia's aligning with China and Russia:


                    I have probably provided more information here, then you could get on these topics if you spent the last year watching CNN every day.

                2. CHRIS57 profile image60
                  CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  It was roughly 15 years ago i adopted a scaling factor to evaluate Chinese industry and economy. Scale 10.

                  A company in the USA or Europe with lets say 1000 employees and an adequate turnover is equal to a little giant with 10 thousand workers in China. And vice versa a Chinese city of 2 Million inhabitants has the economic punch of Little Rock, Ark. Consequently a city of the size of 200.000 in China is to be treated like a small county capital in rural USA.

                  This applies to industrial products as well and exspecially when it comes to military equipment that is larger that an assault rifle.

                  Apply factor 10 for advanced technology industry and economy and China gets comparable to Japan. This is of course of significance (as WWII has shown), but didn´t the USA come out of WWII as the sole Superpower?

                  Don´t underestimate the industrial base of the USA and Nato Europe. This is not about flooding the world with copycat Barbie dolls or cheap dish washers.

                  As long as China remains at this level for heavy and high tech equipment it is not even necessary for the USA to demonstrate political will. The US potential and abilities are all too obvious.
                  China knows it. US officials also know. But of course it is always convenient to promote the image of a rising protagonist to foster the military industrial complex in the USA.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image73
                    Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Yes, I realize that, your last paragraph.

                    I was in Korea in 96... It was a pretty backwater country then.

                    I went back 4 years later, they had 8 lane highways, it seemed every household had a new car, they had cellphones more advanced then our own at the time and had connectivity everywhere, unlike America at the time.

                    In four years it was like the country went from being Peru to being Silicone Valley.  I can't stress the change and how amazingly fast it was.

                    I could never do the drastic changes I saw justice, it would take book, I would have never thought it possible.

                    Three years ago, Tesla didn't exist in China, today it has the world's leading auto manufacturing complex in existence there.

                    China leads the world in EVs, Satellites,  Cell phones, cell tower equipment, etc. etc.

                    If I hadn't spent two years in Korea, and seen how drastically... Immensely so... things can change in a handful of years, I'd be much more willing to accept your assessment.

                3. CHRIS57 profile image60
                  CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  ...sanctions, Russia is still going strong...

                  Really? Weren´t revenues from VAT (value added tax) dropping strongly?
                  Russian economic statistics are censored. But apparently they forgot about that number and kept publishing real data, until someone found out that figures don´t match with other statistics.

                  The Kremlin does everything to keep the big cities happy. And rural Russia is living in conditions of the past century. What do you care that a new, heated Japanese toilet seat gets more expensive if you don´t have fresh water supply in the first place. So for rural Russia not much is changing only that they are indoctrinated with patriotic duties and comparisons to the Great Patriotic War (WWII) for recruitments.

                  Military and industry are totally flawed by corruption and something called "Vranyo", systemic lying. Watch this video. The guy is spot on.

                  The outcome for the Russian military is poor quality in manpower and material, even though it takes time to deplete the stockpiles.

                  If the USA and Nato are taking their own doctrine seriously that quality beats quantity then there is not much to worry about.

                  A last word: In the beginning of the invasion i was one of those who gave Ukraine just a few days or weeks. My reasoning was that Ukraine is also a child of the Soviet Union and should face the same "Vranyo" problems. Apparently the real achievement of western training of the Ukraine army in recent years was to sort out the "Vranyo" behaviour.

                  Russo Chinese relations don´t solve any of the Russian flaws. And - the USA and Nato should not underestimate their own strength.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image73
                    Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I will watch the link provided soon.  But before I take the time, let me say I agree with your perspective on the corruption and quality of living standards for the majority of the rural population.

                    It will be interesting to see how this plays out, Russia has a lot of resources, and this war is on their border, they truly believe (with good reason) that America (the NATO alliance) is coming for them.

                    So for Russia this is a war of survival, if they lose this war, they become a "Banana Republic" that exists merely to serve the whims of the West.

                    For China, they lose a much needed ally, they no longer have a secure northern border, they no longer have access to the cheap energy and mineral resources provided by Russia, their Silk Road is compromised.

                    If Russia falls, or fails in Ukraine, it is a devastating blow to China's goals of usurping America's place on the Global stage.

                    If Russia falls, or fails, it impacts OPEC as well.  OPEC loses its leverage of control on Oil production, Russia could put Saudi Arabia and the rest of them in the poor house if it ramps up its production under Western corporations control, this was proven a couple years back when Russia competed directly with Saudi Arabia flooding the market with oil and dropping the price to below profitability for production.

                    I do like your input and insight, but I'm not sure you realize the desperation and urgency Russia and China feel to succeed in this Ukraine conflict, in their BRICS union, in expanding their influence and breaking free from America and the Dollar.

                    I have to believe China, Iran, India, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Brazil, Syria, etc. all understand that a loss in Ukraine is a loss for BRICS and is a loss for their nations, they will all suffer for allying with Russia far in excess of what America and the EU has or will suffer.  Russia is sitting on resources, worth in excess of 60 trillion dollars today, if that comes under Western control, OPEC becomes a non-issue, and China is starved of affordable easily accessible energy.

      3. Kathleen Cochran profile image77
        Kathleen Cochranposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Don't forget Saudi Arabia in this bromance. Old Arab saying: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

        1. Ken Burgess profile image73
          Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          I think there is a great deal to this.

          In addition to that, its about judging which way the wind is blowing.

          America is not, economically speaking, in a position of dominance like it was 20+ years ago.

          America is not, industrially speaking, the hub of the world's manufacturing, like it was 30+ years ago.

          America only has its military dominance left, and more and more of the rest of the world is seeing America as the bully, as the provocateur, and as an annoyance they would like to be rid of having to deal with.

          Right or wrong in their perception, it is clear that OPEC, the BRICS nations, and others are willing to openly work against America and American interests at this time, and are divorcing themselves from the Dollar as quickly and safely to their own economies as is possible.

    3. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      My thoughts? There was once a Russia-USA unite.                                               But it later degenerated into a cold-war. I think it's because  Russia reasoned America intention was to drop both 'Big' and 'Small' durin WW2 on Russia.                                        Now, this Russia-China thing is a hoax. It's like to comparing comarede Napoleon with the lesser power. One has to give in. And it's had to tell.

  2. abwilliams profile image66
    abwilliamsposted 16 months ago

    My thoughts are where they have been for some time, this just accelerates things; time to find some land and live off the grid. I don't want any part in what's coming.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      A wise sentiment, I wish I were in a position to do so as well.

      And not in America, someplace totally out of the way... like Slovenia or Chile.

      1. abwilliams profile image66
        abwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I will keep the time and place part to myself, for now.

    2. DrMark1961 profile image96
      DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Until last year I would have suggested rural Brazil, but uncle Joe sent his CIA minions down here to interfere in our elections. They suceeded and our pro-US government lost the election to the pro-Chinese that Biden was rooting for.

      1. abwilliams profile image66
        abwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        So sad, what a mess!!

      2. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Where do you get THAT from? Is there anything to support your assertions beyond your mere opinion?

        1. DrMark1961 profile image96
          DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          The fact that he sent his minions in for a session with the TSE, the electoral commission, who immediately started issuing orders supporting Bidens pro China candidate.
          They declared banners for his opponent were illegal, declared that he was not able to discuss his opponents corruption and prison sentence, etc.
          Biden and his crew almost brought this country to civil war. If Lula had not won I am sure the US could have repeated another Guatemala and Iran.
          You do know that they overthrow those they do not agree with?

          1. Credence2 profile image77
            Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I don't claim to be well versed on Brazilian politics, but I thought that Lula won the election there. Are you going a la Trump and claiming because Bolsonaro lost that the election had to have been corrupted?

            Bolsonaro is authoritarian, so there were plenty of explanations beyond Lula being a "Marxist" to explain this administration's support of Lula and Bolsonaro's loss. I don't know about this TSE and how the administration' general support of non authoritarian leaders would lead to a civil war. I would have the same attitude toward Netenyahu in Israel. I don't think that this government would be so brazen as to surreptitiously act contrary to the people's choice in a country as large as Brazil.

            The overthrow attempts here has always been by right wing presidents against so called leftist governments, rarely the other way around.

            1. DrMark1961 profile image96
              DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Yes, there was election fraud but only about 15000 were proven. Lula won by about 5 Million.
              During the election, with the interference of Biden, the TSE performed many illegal  acts to sway the election. Well, illegal in the US at least.
              Lula is in China this week, making sure that the US is not a major influence here. Thanks for the interference, Joe!!!

              1. Credence2 profile image77
                Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Perhaps the Brazilian government does not want to be joined at the hip with the United States and its foreign policy. That, in itself, does not make it our adversary.

                You live there, and you know that Brazil is the not the United States.

                1. DrMark1961 profile image96
                  DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Bolsanaro supported many things that Biden does not agree with, like lower taxes, smaller government, and personal freedom. Whether Biden interfered with the Brazilian elections because he was being disingenuous or whether he thought it was his right is up to debate, but, to paraphrase Malcolm X, sleepy Joes chickens have come home to rest.

                  No, Brazil is not the US. The government we had before Biden interfered was pro-US, however, and now that he convinced the TSE to interfere in the elections we have a pro CCP government.

                  It kind of makes me wonder who Biden really wants to lead the world.

                  1. Credence2 profile image77
                    Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    The things you credit Bolsonaro with is the same sort of brine that Trump Republicans are trying to sell here. But upon closer analysis we see a far more sinister intent.

                    Five million vote difference is a lot of votes, Doc. It seems to me that the people of Brazil have spoken and made clear in their choice how they want their society to proceed. Any outside "interference" can't explain the difference in votes and the ultimate choice made.

                    It is just like the Republicans here, unwilling to accept that people can and do vote against their policies. Could such explain what happened in Brazil? Bolsonaro was pro Trump, pro-authoritarian and pro US as a result. But, Trump does not represent America, only its rabid right wing.

  3. Kenna McHugh profile image93
    Kenna McHughposted 16 months ago

    I am not surprised. I wish it weren't true, but it is. We can't run away from it. We need to take positive action. This may sound like I am looking for the bluebird, but we must start somewhere, like our neighborhoods. Help each other. Smile!

    1. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I don't think it is Russia or China that want war.

      I do think Russia and China are done allowing America to dictate to them.

      A lot of it has to do with energy supplies, Ukraine's fate decides who gets rich, Russia or the EU.

      Still, by thinking we could support/force the transition of Ukraine to NATO (the West) and divorce it from Russia, we have initiated all this taking place. 

      China and BRICS and OPEC would have likely found their way to supporting one another and shifting away from America (the Dollar).

      But the transition has been pushed far faster because of Ukraine, it wasn't in China's plans to begin this until 2030.

      The majority of rest of the world wants to divorce from America's "global leadership"  they have watched how we have handled Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and now Ukraine.

      They are trying to do this without WWIII breaking out, without Nuclear War, but America is in decline... and its leadership is ill suited to handle this reality, its like a parent with dementia... well hell, that's what we have running the White House, so I suppose it is fitting.

  4. MG Singh profile image68
    MG Singhposted 16 months ago

    There is no doubt that Russia and China are together but the third semi-partner India is bewildered. It cannot decide whether to go whole hog hundred percent with Russia mainly because India and China have a Frosty relationship and a border dispute. India also cannot align with the United States, because for the last five decades that India America relationship is full of distrust with the United States, always backing Pakistan against India. Secondly, a feeling is there in India that America wants to use India as a fodder to fight China like it is using Ukraine.India has a difficult. path ahead.

  5. abwilliams profile image66
    abwilliamsposted 16 months ago

    So you believe that taking away all notions of election tampering, THE PEOPLE in the U.S. and in Brazil, are leaning pro-China, pro-Communism?

    1. Credence2 profile image77
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Resisting Trump and Trumpism is not embracing China and Communism. It is not as simple as one distinct choice verses the other.

      It is not pro China nor pro Communism, it is simply anti-Trump.

      1. abwilliams profile image66
        abwilliamsposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        But at what cost?

        1. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Whose says that there has to be a cost?

          There are other alternatives to consider, rather than just one verses the other.

      2. Ken Burgess profile image73
        Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Its just unfortunate that the alternative choice for America, which was Biden, was even a worse choice for America... as we are seeing now, as I warned before Biden was even the official nominee, what it would mean for the people of America, its economy, and the world.

        Once the worst elements were back in control of DC and our policy and lawmaking, the Nation would fast-track to its ruination.

        Its not that we were going to be able to avoid America's downsizing on the world stage, its that we could have orchestrated it in a much safer, more prolonged way.  Rather than being on the verge of WWIII, rather than teetering toward an economic collapse... both of which we are facing now.

        Biden and Harris are as incompetent and incapable of sailing us through these waters safely as any Pres & VP duo we have had since Jimmy Carter.

        1. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

 … -oil-sales

          I needed to get a better objective view of the threat you say hangs over our heads.

          China is Saudi Arabia's largest trading partner, economics replaces gunboat diplomacy.

          Do we kowtow to Saudi Arabia when we have divergent interests on the international stage? Wha about the brutal war that the Saudi's with our military support is waging in Yemen? How about that Ukraine? We need to contain Iran's ambitions toward becoming a nuclear power in the region, so if you haven't a stick big enough, you had better get a carrot. It was dumb for Trump to unravel the Obama initiative toward Iran in 2015.

          Reality trumps prestige and the desire for global control and hegomony. No one nation will continue to have it over others without confrontation.

          This perception of abandonment of Saudi Arabia did not start with Biden, but that was part and parcel of the Trump administration.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image73
            Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            That was a very good article, for information and timeline of events.

            But I don't see how you correlate what it presented with the negativity starting with Trump.  It clearly points out just how much of these problems are Biden's doing.  It spells out how Biden insulted, threatened and blundered his opportunities to strengthen, rather than worsen, our relations with Saudi Arabia... at a time when we are escalating tensions with Russia and China, one would think that it would be wise to be nice to your allies rather than agitate them against you.

            1. Credence2 profile image77
              Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              "While many of these issues have been festering for years, such as when the Trump administration refused to respond to a massive 2019 attack on Saudi oil facilities, ties between the two allies have hit new lows under US President Joe Biden."
              Could it have all started there?

              Does being an ally mean that everything that Saudi Arabia may do contrary to our other national interests has to be "OK" because they control the oil spigot?

              1. Ken Burgess profile image73
                Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                I feel, when you are supposed to be a "World Leader" you shouldn't be alienating an ally, whose input into your own economy, you have relied on heavily for decades.

                That inability to grasp the true reality of our relationship with Saudi Arabia, in addition to so many other things, is one of many reasons why Biden, Harris & Co. is by far the biggest mistake we have ever put in the White House.

                If you prefer the imminent decline of our social norms, economic standards, global position, and like the idea of a geo-political shift where the majority of the world's nations and population moves away from America in a hastening effort... then Biden is great.

                If you don't like the idea of an America where sexualizing children, accepting pedophilia, furries, transgenders, is not only normalized but becomes protected by Executive Order; where the American Dollar becomes worth less than a third of what it was worth in 2020 by 2024; where we are in the process of being ostracized by the BRICS and OPEC nations, then Biden is not your guy.

                1. Credence2 profile image77
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Ask Trump why he alienated so many Western European allies during his term?

                  Our true relationship is that Saudi Arabia can do whatever it likes but we go along because we need to appease them for the oil.

                  I can't speak to your examples of national decline except to say that there would have been no difference had Trump and Republicans were in control, and recognizing their past ham handedness, it probably would be wors now.

  6. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 16 months ago

    I wonder if most people realize that Iran, Saudi Arabia have agreed to use Chinese currency to purchase oil from Russia and Russia has agreed to accept it.

    This is something that hasn't happened in over 100 years.

    The significance of having the US Currency not being used in the world stage is very significant.

    Yet, the media is quiet silent. It's possible the media may not understand it or be able to explain it.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      The media is silent about a lot of things, its not because there aren't people who don't know what it means for the Dollar and America, its because the propaganda machine is told not to talk about it.

      Instead focus people's attentions on kids getting sex changes and transgenders being allowed to compete with women and so many other "insane" things that shouldn't even be considered, and when we were a sane society, they never were, now these issues become centerpieces of public-square conversations.

      The issue is progressing at an alarming rate, OPEC, BRICS, and many nations looking to work with them are quickly shifting off the dollar.  At the same time we have banks in the US and EU faltering.

      1. Readmikenow profile image93
        Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        "its because the propaganda machine is told not to talk about it."

        This is one of the many frustrating things of the left wing media. This will have an impact on everyone.  How American companies do business overseas will change, this will impact many areas of American society.  It's like screaming in a vacuum and having people all looking at their phones.

  7. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 16 months ago

    During WW2, Germany was bent on displacing  Great Britain as the woirlds #1 naval military power but awfully failed.                                      The USA with Big Boy and money loaned to Britain, came out of the big picture as the sole 'super power'.                                              If China is about just to do that, let her out-smart Russia first.

  8. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 16 months ago

    Has not the United Nations give orders(but to whom) for Putin to be arrested?                                   Are the nation states of the world afraid just only one person? Ha ha ha! Eh eh eh!

  9. Ken Burgess profile image73
    Ken Burgessposted 16 months ago

    The point of this thread was Russia - China united.

    China has brokered a peace deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

    Not America... China.

    China has Iran, Russia and Saudi Arabia now trading in the Yuan not the Dollar.

    These are the issues more along the lines of what I was hoping to discuss, not the war in Ukraine.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image90
      Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      These facts are very hard for some to digest, especially when we are being told "look here, not there, by mainstream media.

      It would seem our history of these forms of wars has not been successful, and in the end, we get tired of the fight, and walk away, leaving lots of devastation.

      China is definitely on the move, and the strategy is sound. They have become allies with our long-time enemies. 

      It appears we have gotten the Nation into one of the biggest problems we have ever faced, in many decades.

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Roger that.

  10. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 16 months ago

    Things are not going well for Russia in the war.

    "Russian soldiers say commanders used ‘barrier troops’ to stop them retreating"

    "Members of a recently formed Russian assault unit say their commanders deployed troops to stop them from retreating and threatened them with death after they suffered “huge” losses in eastern Ukraine. … &ei=11

  11. Coltonlarsen1975 profile image59
    Coltonlarsen1975posted 16 months ago

    For me, it's simple. We can not allow Russian aggression to win. Ever.  Regardless of location, they should not be allowed to reap any benefit of their unprovoked aggression.

    1. Readmikenow profile image93
      Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      You have MY full support with that statement.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Spoken like someone who never has seen conflict and has no interest in putting themselves in that position. 

      You know, the talk tough but won't put themselves at risk to back it up, type.

      And that you call this 'unprovoked' is just ignorance of the situation.

  12. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 15 months ago

    In the darkness of the morning on February 27, 2014, heavily armed men wearing green uniforms with no identifying insignia stormed the regional parliament in Simferopol, the capital of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, and raised the Russian flag atop the building.

    As masked commandos in similar garb fanned out across the peninsula over the next two weeks, surrounding Ukrainian military bases and taking control of other strategic facilities, it was clear to many on the ground that they were Russian military. One of the soldiers said as much on camera.

    But despite clear indications that Moscow had dispatched these forces -- or "little green men," as they came to be widely known -- Russia embarked on a campaign of denials and obfuscations about their provenance and role in helping cement Moscow's annexation of Crimea in March 2014.

    Russia described them as "self-defense units" created by locals concerned about alleged threats against Crimea's Russian-speaking population from Ukrainian ultranationalists.

    Only later did the story begin to change.

    Nothing To See Here

    A day after the seizure of the Crimean parliament and the regional government headquarters, masked Russian soldiers took control of the Simferopol airport. One woman in the crowd appeared certain about their nationality, yelling "Russia, Russia!" as a group of commandos loaded their weapons and equipment into a military truck.

    But the same day, Russia's ambassador to the European Union told Euronews that the troops at the airport were not Russian. "There are no troops whatsoever, no Russian troops at least," Vladimir Chizhov said.

    At one point during the exchange, Wolf told Putin: "You later admitted that the Russian military was in Crimea, even though you had previously denied it."

    Putin replied: "I did not deny anything. The Russian Army was always there."

    Putin's assertion that he "did not deny anything" was omitted from the Kremlin's official transcript of the interview. … 91806.html

    "denials and obfuscations"

    A common russian tactic. One that has been used well on this thread.

  13. emge profile image78
    emgeposted 15 months ago

    I am very clear on this matter, the videos and lectures of John Mearsheimer are worth a look. This one has been instigated by Joe Biden, and Zelenskyy, and the only person to be tried as a war Criminal is Zelenskyy. The old saying man proposes, and god disposes is very true, because the best of plans of Biden and Zelensky have failed. Ukraine is destroyed, but this is just the beginning and very soon it will be a devastated land with a couple of nuclear explosions, and I think the Ukrainian people can thank Zelensky for it. The massive Mogul empire was destroyed in one decade by Bahadur shah and Joe Biden is going to do the same thing to America, which is very sad.

    1. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      There is a growing threat to that becoming a reality.  I am not sure we survive another two years of Biden's idiocy and ignorance.

      We have no chance if he is re-elected, none.

      1. Sharlee01 profile image90
        Sharlee01posted 15 months agoin reply to this

        I agree, it feels like I am just sitting here watching America collapse around me. And it is clear many have been very much brainwashed, and ignore the very serious issues we have in the country, and our foreign affairs.

    2. Miebakagh57 profile image67
      Miebakagh57posted 15 months agoin reply to this

      Let both Putin and Zelensky abdicate government in their respective countries, and peace shall return?                   As a boy of 11 years there was a civil war in my country Nigeria, leading to the emergence of Biafra, led by Col. Odumegu Ojukwu, a Sandhust and Oxford trained military officer. Nigeria was lead by  Major-General Yakubu Gowan.                                         When talks of peace break down, Ojukwu, had to quit Nigeria, for good...and Gowan had to declare 'no victor nor vanquisher'. That was in  January 1970. So no civil war has break at in Nigeria to date.

      1. Readmikenow profile image93
        Readmikenowposted 15 months agoin reply to this

        "Let both Putin and Zelensky abdicate government in their respective countries, and peace shall return?"

        I'm sorry but that would not work.

        The history between the people of the Ukraine and the people of Russia go back a long way.

        You need to read about Holodomor.  In the 1930s, Stalin starved between 5 and 10 million people to death, mostly Ukrainians.

        1. Miebakagh57 profile image67
          Miebakagh57posted 15 months agoin reply to this

          Mike, my suggestion is not a recommendation. It's part of the study process.                                    Mike, Chairman Moa also did similiar thing in China. Can Hitler's aggressive food policy against Great Britain be equated to the  Russia Holodomor? I think starving your enemies to death with food, oil, arms, and other dssentials is common during warfare and times of distriss?                              Thanks Mike, thanks.

  14. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 15 months ago

    How many losses is Russia willing to endure to try and take over a sovereign nation?

    "Vladimir Putin Removes Upper Age Limit For New Soldiers As Russian Troops Get Decimated In Ukraine

    The new decree also comes just a few months after 115 members of Russia’s National Guard were sacked due to their refusal to fight in Ukraine." … &ei=11

  15. Coltonlarsen1975 profile image59
    Coltonlarsen1975posted 15 months ago

    Crimea belongs to Russia but Russia needs to "de-nazify" Ukraine? Putin's own words .  Please elaborate? How does this make sense?

  16. Ken Burgess profile image73
    Ken Burgessposted 15 months ago

    Why Saudi Arabia Is Following Iran to Join China and Russia's Security Bloc

    Saudi Arabia's decision to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) has come amid a wave of diplomatic initiatives in the Middle East bringing regional powers closer to China and Russia.

    The decision, reached Wednesday through a memorandum approved by the Saudi Cabinet, would establish Riyadh as an official dialogue partner of the SCO, an economic and security bloc that counts China, India, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan as members. Other dialogue partners include Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cambodia, Egypt, Nepal, Qatar, Sri Lanka and Turkey.

    Tehran was the most recent to see its status upgraded from observer to full member in September and Riyadh's decision came just weeks after a China-brokered deal to resume Iran-Saudi diplomatic ties.

    The relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia entered a fraught timeline since President Joe Biden came into office two years ago.

    Among the first major foreign policy decisions made by the incoming leader, who had previously referred to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman as a "pariah" over alleged human rights abuses, was to announce the end of combat assistance to Riyadh as it led a military campaign in Yemen against the Iran-aligned Ansar Allah, or Houthi, movement.

    The relationship grew increasingly strained after Russia launched a war in Ukraine last year. As energy prices soared over the conflict and ensuing Western sanctions against Moscow, Washington called on Riyadh to increase production, only for the Kingdom to join with Russia and other members of the extended Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC+) in cutting output in October.

    Biden pledged there would be "consequences" for the move, as he ordered his administration to review its longstanding ties with Saudi Arabia.

    Full Article: … oc-1791326

  17. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 15 months ago

    It appears that Finland has become a member of NATO.

    "Finland has become the 31st member of the Nato security alliance, doubling the length of member states' borders with Russia.

    The Finnish foreign minister handed the accession document to the US secretary of state who declared Finland a member.

    Then in bright sunshine in front of Nato's gleaming new headquarters, Finland's white-and-blue flag joined a circle of 30 other flags.

    Finland's accession is a setback for Russia's Vladimir Putin.

    He had repeatedly complained of Nato's expansion before his full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

    US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said by attacking his neighbour, the Russian leader had triggered exactly what he had sought to prevent."

    The Finns have their own dark history with Russia. It was called the "Winter War"

    "Soviet troops totaling about one million men attacked Finland on several fronts. The heavily outnumbered Finns put up a skillful and effective defense that winter, and the Red Army made little progress. In February 1940, however, the Soviets used massive artillery bombardments to breach the Mannerheim Line (the Finns’ southern defensive barrier stretching across the Karelian Isthmus), after which they streamed northward across the isthmus to the Finnish city of Viipuri (Vyborg). Unable to secure help from Britain and France, the exhausted Finns made peace (the Treaty of Moscow) on Soviet terms on March 12, 1940, agreeing to the cession of western Karelia and to the construction of a Soviet naval base on the Hanko Peninsula.

    he Finns then joined the fight against the Soviets, undertaking the “War of Continuation.” An armistice signed on September 19, 1944, effectively concluded that conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland, contingent on Finnish recognition of the Treaty of Moscow and the evacuation of German troops (who refused to leave). The formal end of the Soviet-Finnish conflict came with the signing of a peace treaty in Paris on February 10, 1947.

    1. tsmog profile image84
      tsmogposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      Hopefully Turkey and Hungary will get over their complaints about Sweden not joining. We will see another addition to NATO. But, Finland and Sweden do have a mutual defense pact.

  18. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 15 months ago

    This Is a deliema, and it's complicated. Who 'wins' the war then?

  19. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 15 months ago

    If you want to know how the war is really going this is a former military person from Ukraine and this is his English YouTube channel.

  20. Miebakagh57 profile image67
    Miebakagh57posted 15 months ago

    I strongly detesyed this type of discusions.

    It equate to throwing hammers and spanners in the forum.

    Do anyone here expect me to be at Ukraine or Cremea to dig for first hand information?

    Am I a historical journalist?

    This is a purely European affairs/world affair, that captivated my attention and interest.

    You guys should do me a favour.

  21. Ken Burgess profile image73
    Ken Burgessposted 15 months ago

    De-Dollarization Is Happening at a ‘Stunning’ Pace

    The greenback’s share in global reserves slid last year at 10 times the average speed of the past two decades as a number of countries looked for alternatives after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine triggered sanctions, Jen and his Eurizon SLJ Capital Ltd. colleague Joana Freire wrote in a note. Adjusting for exchange rate movements, the dollar has lost about 11% of its market share since 2016 and double that amount since 2008, they said.

    “The dollar suffered a stunning collapse in 2022 in its market share as a reserve currency, presumably due to its muscular use of sanctions,” Jen and Freire wrote. “Exceptional actions taken by the US and its allies against Russia have startled large reserve-holding countries,” most of which are emerging economies from the so-called Global South, they said.

    Jen is the former Morgan Stanley currency guru who coined the dollar smile theory.

    Last year, Bloomberg’s gauge of the greenback surged as much as 16% as the conflict helped fuel a rise in global inflation that triggered widespread interest rate hikes which sank bond and currency markets alike. It finished the year up 6%.

    Biden’s Dollar Weaponization Supercharges Hunt for Alternatives

    Smaller nations are experimenting with de-dollarization while China and India are pushing to internationalize their currencies for trade settlement after the US and Europe cut Russian banks from the global financial messaging system known as SWIFT. … r-AA1a0OKh

  22. Ken Burgess profile image73
    Ken Burgessposted 15 months ago

    Ukraine to be shunned in India's G20

    Last week’s visit to India by Ukraine’s first deputy foreign minister Emine Dzhaparova had a clear agenda: nudge New Delhi gently away from its Russia tilt.

    Dzhaparova called India a vishwaguru, echoing Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s chosen global branding. It didn’t get her a meeting with External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar. India followed strict protocol. The meeting with Minister of State for External Affairs Meenakshi Lekhi was cordial but unproductive.

    Ukraine wants India to invite President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to speak via video link at the G20 heads of government summit in Delhi in September. Dzhaparova carried a letter from Zelenskyy inviting Modi to visit Kyiv in an attempt to loosen Moscow’s grip on Delhi.

    India has made it clear that neither is possible: there will be no video link for the G20 summit and no visit by Modi to Kyiv in the near future.

    India is, however, treading carefully. It does not want to be bracketed with the Russia-China axis. At the same time, it is mindful that in the next few months, as president of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), it will chair a heads of government summit with Russia, China and key central Asian countries.

    India is also part of the Russia-India-China (RIC) trilateral. Though the RIC is not a particularly active forum, it is still a regional grouping that delivers geopolitical advantages to India.

    Dzhaparovia’s speech at the Indian Council of World Affairs (ICWA) made it clear what Ukraine wants from India and how Kyiv views the new world order being shaped by the Russia-Ukraine war: “Being with Russia is being on the wrong side of history… Supporting Russia and being with Russia means backing a medieval vision of the world. The suggestion that I brought here is to have a better and deeper relationship with India. And it needs reciprocity. We knocked on the door but it is also up to the owner of the house to open the door.”

    The West is quietly furious at India’s neutral stand on the Russia-Ukraine war. Feeding the anger is its helplessness to do much about it. Washington has decided that India is an indispensable counterweight to China. India’s neutrality on Ukraine is a price the US is prepared to pay.

    Europe is much less prepared to be charitable. It does not regard China as the existential threat the US does. As French President Emmanuel Macron said after his three-day visit to Beijing last week: “Being an ally (of the US) does not mean being a vassal… doesn’t mean that we don’t have the right to think for ourselves.”

    Macron wants Europe to be a pivot in the axis between the US and China. It does nearly $1 trillion in trade with China. Unlike the US, it has no direct military rivalry with Beijing. Even on Taiwan, Europe has taken a softer stance on a possible Chinese invasion.

    As Macron said, “Paris supports the One China policy and the search for a peaceful resolution to the situation.” … 75102.html

    1. Sharlee01 profile image90
      Sharlee01posted 15 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you for sharing this --- It certainly has slipped through the cracks. I did hear about Macron's statement, and it has a very clear context, in my view.

      I would imagine much of the EU has the same sentiment.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image73
        Ken Burgessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

        There is a definite signaling from EU nations that they are not interested in joining America in its saber rattling in regards to Taiwan.

        There are also signs that the world's most populated nations in conjunction with the nations that are capable of producing the most oil are unifying in their efforts to de-dollarize trade between themselves.

        These are significant things that collectively point to the majority of the world turning away from America.

  23. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 15 months ago

    It is now official.

    The Ukrainian counter offensive has started.

    Слава Україні (Glory to Ukraine)

    на славу героям (To the heroes Glory)

    1. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      Same question for you Mike... How many more hundreds of thousands of lives are you willing to throw away?

      How much destruction must be inflicted before it is too much?

      1. Readmikenow profile image93
        Readmikenowposted 15 months agoin reply to this

        I will tell you when russia annexes Alaska and is shocked people are willing to resist them.

        "How much destruction must be inflicted before it is too much?"

        I wonder if this was asked of France, Poland and other western European countries who stood up against Nazi Germany to get their country back?

    2. Ken Burgess profile image73
      Ken Burgessposted 15 months agoin reply to this

      I listened to a very plausible explanation of the Ukraine offensive and how it would reach to within artillery range of Crimea.

      It was very detailed very sound except for the fact that this assault will be under continuous artillery fire, rocket fire, drone attack, etc.

      The confidence this guy had in the Ukrainian ability to do this... well, like I say, I don't know much... its not like they are feeding me the intelligence reports and ordering me to come up with the Op-Ord and contingencies.

      Let me just say, if the Russians DON'T have the ability to blow to smithereens anything that comes within artillery range of Crimea's Westernmost point they are truly pathetic and were never a threat at all to any nation... other than the nuclear threat.

      Apologies for having a modicum of tactical knowledge, but there is no way Ukraine forces should be able to get near Crimea without being obliterated.

      This is just reality, they need to destroy Russia's artillery and spotting capacity.  They also need to destroy or keep grounded Russia's air assets and drones, and also deter Russia's fleet from launching cruise missiles.

      Its one thing when Ukraine is on the move and attacking... its going to be quite another for them to hold any of those positions near enough to Crimea to actually attack Crimea, without being wiped off the map themselves.

  24. Readmikenow profile image93
    Readmikenowposted 15 months ago

    It is a shame that russian propaganda is so powerful and effective.  It is how they control their people and it is how they try to control other people.

    "The eastern Donbas was already the most pro-Russian region in Ukraine, close geographically to Russia and featuring families with ties to both countries. Russian was spoken more often than Ukrainian in the cities.

    But the local police chief, Dmytro Kirdiapkin, attributes the view of civilians like Natasha largely to the relentless and insidious Russian propaganda campaign that has been imposed on the local population for more than a decade. It has turned them against their own government, he said, and pushed them into the arms of the Russian proxy forces that took hold of parts of eastern Ukraine in 2014.

    “In my opinion, it’s the most brutal weapon the Russian Federation uses on our people,” Kirdiapkin said in an interview last month in his office in Kostyantynivka.

    A native of the Donetsk region, Kirdiapkin, 35, has seen firsthand the effects of the Russian information war while serving in the police force in the front-line Ukrainian cities of Mariupol, Druzhkivka and, now, Kostyantynivka.

    He recalled turning on a television set in a recaptured town in 2014 and finding only a pro-Russian channel that showed a drumbeat of horrific images of nuclear destruction and terror, juxtaposed with a Ukrainian flag. The images were not even from Ukraine, he said, but the messaging was designed to stir fear of the Ukrainian leadership and to push people to support union with Russia.

    “We lost the information war in 2014,” he said.

    He also recalled a false tale that was promoted on Russia’s main television channel, available to many Ukrainians, of a small boy being crucified by Ukrainian soldiers.

    “I don’t understand how back then and still now, a lot of people believe in those tales,” he said.

    President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has often been praised for his communication skills and his success in uniting the country behind the Ukrainian cause. But in parts of the east, most officials concede that Russia still has the upper hand in the propaganda war.

    Russian television channels, which dominate the airwaves in Russian-controlled territory, have long been banned in Ukraine, as have popular Russian social media networks. Yet in eastern Ukraine, anyone with a satellite dish can still watch pro-Russian channels or tune in to pro-Russian radio programs in towns even 50 miles from the front line.

    The police have found that social media channels are used by Russia to directly manipulate the residential community, Kirdiapkin said. The Ukrainian intelligence service has blocked social media accounts it considers hostile, but many more remain unchecked." … 51308.html

  25. Ken Burgess profile image73
    Ken Burgessposted 15 months ago

    Saudi Arabia & China - Collapsing The US Economy!

    Saudi Arabia and China’s ties seem to be getting stronger whilst the relationship with the US continues to loosen as Saudi Arabia’s cabinet recently approved the decision to join the China-led Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO).

    This could be a signal that Riyadh, with all its energy reserves, is choosing sides in the Ukraine war. Saudi Arabia, in part stung by US president Joe Biden’s refusal to deal with the Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, is moving closer to Russia and China, particularly since the Chinese brokered a rapprochement between the kingdom and Iran.

    The SCO began its life in 1996 as the “Shanghai Five” made up of People’s Republic of China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, and Tajikistan. In 2001 it admitted additional central Asian states and renamed itself as the SCO, a military, political and economic collaboration organisation. Since then most other central Asian states have joined, plus Mongolia as an observer and critically, in 2017, Pakistan and India.

    In 2023 the SCO has nearly 50% of the global population as member states, observers or partners and approximately 30% of the global economy in nominal terms (that is pure dollar terms). It represents just over 40% in purchasing power parity (PPP), a term that measures economic power adjusted for the cost of goods in a country or group of countries.

    To put that in perspective, the G7 represents a much smaller population and only about 27% of the global economy in PPP terms.

    The SCO already had more economic clout than the G7 and in 2021 held its latest set of combined military exercises. And now resource rich Saudi Arabia is joining. The SCO holds frequent joint military and counter terrorism exercises with the next planned later in 2023. It will be interesting to see how Saudi engages militarily.

    This edging closer to Beijing is particularly significant given that China has recently strengthened its diplomatic credibility by negotiating a rapprochement between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

    The various Iranian/Arab disputes have been one of the reasons that the Middle East and Iran have remained unstable, fragmented and unable to push a regional approach to their problems.

    Saudi Aramco Bets On Continuous Growth Of Chinese Oil Demand.

    The world’s largest crude oil exporter, Saudi Arabia, is betting big on the growing market for crude China, as Saudi oil giant Aramco is strengthening its downstream presence and crude supply market share in the world’s top importer. 

    Saudi Aramco announced this week two major refinery and petrochemical deals in China, which not only give the world’s largest oil firm a share of the Chinese downstream market but also an additional export outlet for 690,000 barrels per day (bpd) of Saudi crude in China.   

    With the two agreements, Saudi Arabia is betting on continuous growth in Chinese oil demand on the one hand. On the other hand, the Kingdom is looking to boost its market share in the world’s top oil importer, where its partner in the OPEC+ pact, Russia, has gained market share with cheap crude after the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the sanctions on Moscow that followed.

    Saudi Arabia and Russia have been neck and neck on the Chinese oil market for years, but the fight for market share has become more contested since the war in Ukraine began as Russia pivoted to Asia and now bets on China and India as the key buyers of its crude, often offered at wide discounts to international benchmarks.


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